Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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crossy1686 said:
You realise how rare it is that a manager can do that for that length of time? City went through 6 managers in 10 years, Liverpool went through 5 in 10 years, Chelsea went through 8 in 10 years. Clubs sack under performing managers and they bring in better one's when they have the chance. There's no shame in it, it's life. You can't hire someone with the plan that everything will work out fine for at least 5 years.

If you think it's an emotional reaction to want the manager gone you've ignored pretty much every single red flag on offer since the league cup win.
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Are you actually able to comprehend what is said to you, or are you just completely blinded by your desire to sack Ten Hag ASAP (something I'm perfectly on board with)?

We may, of course, sack managers much quicker. In fact, we should sack managers if they aren't meeting required standards and look like they're not up to the task (which very much seems to be the case with Ten Hag).

However, we shouldn't hire any manager with a view that we'll be sacking them within 2-3 years. We should want them to be the manager that turns us around and achieves a level of consistent success, and stays for a reasonable amount of time.

If the club hires a manager fully expecting to fire them within two or three seasons then why are they hiring them?
 
Yes Ten Hag has underperformed (along with the players) but I hate the notion that you can’t blame injures for part of this shitty season.

It’s not just ‘x’ player is out. More players fit means more options meaning a fresher squad, we can rotate, we can try different combinations, players like Mainoo and Mejbri can have their minutes managed better, partnerships can be formed, players with little knocks can be rested or given less minutes, etc.

You can hate Ten Hag all you like, but you have to take into consideration the injuries.
 
MyBloodIsRed said:
How do we know the players "he signed" are his first choices???? I'd love to drive a Mercedes not a Toyota... but my budget is X not Y.

I believe he's the right man. Feels like crap to be this poor but let's face it. No manager at United post Fergie (some with big CV's) couldn't get consistent results... what's the common theme? the club isn't a FC FIRST and FOREMOST... so decisions are not done to ensure on field success.

ETH shouldn't be punished for that.
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Not this again...
 
Alex99 said:
Is our average tenure even 2 years?

Moyes less than 1, LvG exactly 2, Mourinho just shy of 2.5, Ole probably around 2.5 as permanent manager, and Ten Hag is yet to hit 1.5.

The answer isn't sack managers more frequently.

You can't simultaneously recognise the need for any level of rebuild and then expect a manager (especially of the calibre we're likely to attract) to turn it around inside two seasons.
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It's more simple than that. We need to recruit better managers in the first place. In hindsight they were all bad appointments, every single of them. Some of them made sense at the time, some never did. Rebuild or not, some milestones have to be hit. Giving anybody x years is moronic, unless they earned it either by having it done in the past or by showing some actual progress.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
We'll have a better chance of top 4 if we let Erik go now than we will have if we keep him
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Can you be sure of that? How many times are we gonna keep relying on a new manager bounce. Until the following season we do shite again. This time we’ve just got to ride it out and have faith. Don’t think there’s anyone better out there.
 
DJ_21 said:
ETH is a decent manager. And to prove this just look how Ajax are doing now… he transformed them.
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Ajax finished second - 1 point off the champions the season before Ten Hag taking over. So much for transformation. Also, it’s Ajax and Eredivisie. Yes, they’re having a bad season now - but look at how many players they sold.
 
MyBloodIsRed said:
How do we know the players "he signed" are his first choices???? I'd love to drive a Mercedes not a Toyota... but my budget is X not Y.

I believe he's the right man. Feels like crap to be this poor but let's face it. No manager at United post Fergie (some with big CV's) couldn't get consistent results... what's the common theme? the club isn't a FC FIRST and FOREMOST... so decisions are not done to ensure on field success.

ETH shouldn't be punished for that.
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I mean transfer targets are pretty public these days for every club. And god knows United of all clubs is about as transparent as it gets and leaks everything. Just sticking your head in the sand about the fact that many of his favored signings have been crap won't change that.
 
Rista said:
It's more simple than that. We need to recruit better managers in the first place. In hindsight they were all bad appointments, every single of them. Some of them made sense at the time, some never did. Rebuild or not, some milestones have to be hit. Giving anybody x years is moronic, unless they earned it either by having it done in the past or by showing some actual progress.
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That's an issue in itself, and another one that would have been solved by a proper football structure.
 
Alex99 said:
Are you actually able to comprehend what is said to you, or are you just completely blinded by your desire to sack Ten Hag ASAP (something I'm perfectly on board with)?

We may, of course, sack managers much quicker. In fact, we should sack managers if they aren't meeting required standards and look like they're not up to the task (which very much seems to be the case with Ten Hag).

However, we shouldn't hire any manager with a view that we'll be sacking them within 2-3 years. We should want them to be the manager that turns us around and achieves a level of consistent success, and stays for a reasonable amount of time.

If the club hires a manager fully expecting to fire them within two or three seasons then why are they hiring them?
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I'm of the opinion that the sooner you replace the manager, the sooner things will improve on the playing side.

City sacked Hughes when Mancini was available, they sacked Mancini when it went south and got Pellegrini in because he was available and they sacked him when Pep came available. No one got more time than they deserved. When there's better managers on the market you act ruthless.

So lets say for example we bring in Potter tomorrow to replace Ten Hag, absolutely no one should be thinking that he's here for 5 years. He was available and he has to prove himself at this level, but what if Potter rescues the season and finishes in the top 4 but a world class manager comes available? Do we keep Potter? Absolutely not.

Any club hiring a manager should expect to have to fire them within 2 to 3 seasons because that's the average lifespan of a manager. As owners you should know and expect that, it's a fact of football. It's a bonus if they make it into their 4th season.
 
DJ_21 said:
Can you be sure of that? How many times are we gonna keep relying on a new manager bounce. Until the following season we do shite again. This time we’ve just got to ride it out and have faith. Don’t think there’s anyone better out there.
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It's literal religion now.

crossy1686 said:
I'm of the opinion that the sooner you replace the manager, the sooner things will improve on the playing side.

City sacked Hughes when Mancini was available, they sacked Mancini when it went south and got Pellegrini in because he was available and they sacked him when Pep came available. No one got more time than they deserved. When there's better managers on the market you act ruthless.

So lets say for example we bring in Potter tomorrow to replace Ten Hag, absolutely no one should be thinking that he's here for 5 years. He was available and he has to prove himself at this level, but what if Potter rescues the season and finishes in the top 4 but a world class manager comes available? Do we keep Potter? Absolutely not.

Any club hiring a manager should expect to have to fire them within 2 to 3 seasons because that's the average lifespan of a manager. As owners you should know and expect that, it's a fact of football. It's a bonus if they make it into their 4th season.
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Agreed. People are calling for structure but it is this structure that would enable us to do exactly that. Change managers with ease, like the likes of Bayern can do. If we're looking for this one manager who will lead us to glory and stay 10 years we will more likely than not go nowhere. This is why people are clinging to this hope that ETH is the one, to the point that they can't see the obvious.
 
crossy1686 said:
I'm of the opinion that the sooner you replace the manager, the sooner things will improve on the playing side.

City sacked Hughes when Mancini was available, they sacked Mancini when it went south and got Pellegrini in because he was available and they sacked him when Pep came available. No one got more time than they deserved. When there's better managers on the market you act ruthless.

So lets say for example we bring in Potter tomorrow to replace Ten Hag, absolutely no one should be thinking that he's here for 5 years. He was available and he has to prove himself at this level, but what if Potter rescues the season and finishes in the top 4 but a world class manager comes available? Do we keep Potter? Absolutely not.

Any club hiring a manager should expect to have to fire them within 2 to 3 seasons because that's the average lifespan of a manager. As owners you should know and expect that, it's a fact of football. It's a bonus if they make it into their 4th season.
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Hughes to Mancini is an obvious upgrade, as is Pellegrini to Guardiola. It's absolutely ridiculous to compare those to hiring Graham fecking Potter. It also ignores that Mancini got the best part of four years and that Pellegrini saw out a season in which City scraped top four on goal difference.

The average "lifespan" is irrelevant. That's why managers are generally given 2-4 year contracts (and not daft 6 year ones like we gave Moyes). That doesn't mean we should hire someone that we don't believe can still be here in five years time.
 
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Sometimes things just don't work out, doesn't necessarily mean it's anyone's fault. I still think Ten Hag is a good manager, believe it or not he wants to play the right way press aggressively out of position turn the ball over transition with to attack. When that's not on possession. Not unlike pep and klopp. Just some of the signings haven't worked out and now there's is a lot of injuries.

Sometimes things just don't work out and that's ok. Maybe under a different manager we'll have some better luck and the team will get some last minute winners and really forge and winning mindset. Number 1 though, we have to get recruitment right, we have so many on big wages either not playing or contributing.
 
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RedDevil@84 said:
Nobody knows anything for sure. Everyone is speculating based on what sources one believes in.
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Basically the people who want him out believe he’s picked everyone, the people who don’t think different. Redcaf civil war is well and truly underway.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Basically the people who want him out believe he’s picked everyone, the people who don’t think different. Redcaf civil war is well and truly underway.
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Are you trying to imply then, that players he didn’t want might have been bought? It can’t be both, either they were his choices - regardless of whether they were first choices - or not.
 
Too many fools on here that are indoctrinated in the cult religion of Ten Hag.

Thou shall not doubt Erik
Thou shall blame injuries
Thou shall blame the Glazers
Thou shall blame John
Thou shall 'heh'

You lot can't wait for him to go to Dortmund so he can show how fantastic a manager he is, despite there only being 3 clubs in all of Europe's top 5 league's that have lost more games than us in all competitions this season.

Get some standards. Embarrassing.
 
MyBloodIsRed said:
How do we know the players "he signed" are his first choices???? I'd love to drive a Mercedes not a Toyota... but my budget is X not Y.

I believe he's the right man. Feels like crap to be this poor but let's face it. No manager at United post Fergie (some with big CV's) couldn't get consistent results... what's the common theme? the club isn't a FC FIRST and FOREMOST... so decisions are not done to ensure on field success.

ETH shouldn't be punished for that.
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What does it matter if the players were his first choises or not? No manager will always get the pick of the litter. Fergie didn't at a time when United were the dominant force in English football.

To use your analogy, you want a Mercedes, you get a Toyota but you're unable to drive it. They are both cars, you should be able to get a tune out of the Toyota and get to work in it.

And again, to use your analogy, Ten Hag may have bought Toyotas, but he paid Mercedes prices!
 
erikcred said:
That game had a massive impact, but for a different reason than you suggest. The reaction after the game from the fans and even manager, indicated to the players that this sort of a result doesn't matter. It could be brushed aside easily as a "freak result", completely ignoring the disgraceful performance.

And that meant that a strong reaction was not demanded from the players or even the manger.

And that meant that our next two games were a draw at home against soon-to-be-relegated Southampton and an away defeat at Newcastle.

But we were league cup champions, so the lack of a proper reaction didn't matter much anymore. The same way, if we get hit for 5 against Liverpool, it'll only be because we have many injuries, according to so many on here and ETH can continue on his merry way.
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Hard to disagree with any of this.
 
Halve the people moaning for him to be sacked are probably the same people that wanted him hired. Where do they think we go in a years time with a new manager? Back to square 1. The players can’t keep getting away with performing 1 week and playing shite the next week. The team that dominated Chelsea was the same team that got battered of Bournemouth. The players are responsible, they choose when they play good and when they play bad.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Nobody knows anything for sure. Everyone is speculating based on what sources one believes in.
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When there are so many players that he used to coach, or has seen first hand in the Dutch league, his signings get scrutinized more than they would had the bought from other sources.

No other manager has come into a Premier League club as signed so many of his ex players.

Ten Hag had first hand knowledge of working with Antony. That fact that he has not worked makes people question his judgement, especially at the price paid.
 
DJ_21 said:
Halve the people moaning for him to be sacked are probably the same people that wanted him hired. Where do they think we go in a years time with a new manager? Back to square 1. The players can’t keep getting away with performing 1 week and playing shite the next week. The team that dominated Chelsea was the same team that got battered of Bournemouth. The players are responsible, they choose when they play good and when they play bad.
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No shit, probably all the people who want him sacked wanted him hired. Is that supposed to be meaningful?

Most people adjust their views based on new information.

The team that dominated Chelsea was playing a shit, disorganised team. The same group then lost to a well organised football team. For the 11th time this season. Because our manager cant coach his way out of a paper bag at this level.
 
MyBloodIsRed said:
How do we know the players "he signed" are his first choices???? I'd love to drive a Mercedes not a Toyota... but my budget is X not Y.

I believe he's the right man. Feels like crap to be this poor but let's face it. No manager at United post Fergie (some with big CV's) couldn't get consistent results... what's the common theme? the club isn't a FC FIRST and FOREMOST... so decisions are not done to ensure on field success.

ETH shouldn't be punished for that.
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We know for sure that Onana, Martinez, Amrabat, and Antony are his choices, because they played for him in the past. Malacia also played in Eredivisie so was his choice, as was Weghorst. We can guess that Mount is his choice cause he was interested in the past for him (when he played in Holland).

We can only guess for the others (for example, Casemiro last year was called club's choice cause he was different to other targets, i.e., not being Dutch and/or not having played in Eredivisie). Hojlund might have been his or club's choice, hard to know. Reguilon and Sabitzer were likely whatever we could find available and cheap. Evans was likely club's choice. Turkish keeper was likely club's choice (I refuse to believe that EtH diligently watched Turkish league).

In any case, it should not matter. Any good manager should get more from this group of players.
 
DJ_21 said:
Can you be sure of that? How many times are we gonna keep relying on a new manager bounce. Until the following season we do shite again. This time we’ve just got to ride it out and have faith. Don’t think there’s anyone better out there.
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Normally I would be happy to give a manager time but Erik has showed he is well out of his depth at Old Trafford, since he come in we have suffered so many embarrasing defeats and set unwanted record after unwanted record despite spending over £400m on players.

At this point I think Erik has lost the dressing room and nothing will improve until he goes.
 
Rednotdead said:
Are you trying to imply then, that players he didn’t want might have been bought? It can’t be both, either they were his choices - regardless of whether they were first choices - or not.
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Are you asking if players were signed against his will? If no, obviously not.
 
gaffs said:
When there are so many players that he used to coach, or has seen first hand in the Dutch league, his signings get scrutinized more than they would had the bought from other sources.

No other manager has come into a Premier League club as signed so many of his ex players.

Ten Hag had first hand knowledge of working with Antony. That fact that he has not worked makes people question his judgement, especially at the price paid.
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The poster was asking if we knew that the players he ended up signing were his first choices and that is the only thing I said nobody knows for sure.
On the topic of ETH bringing players from Dutch league, I think it is a failure of the club to give ETH the power to select players, unless he was some genius who knew loads of players from around the world and then another failure to pay 50M for Onana or 90-100M to Antony. The club should have vetoed the signings just for the price.
 
Socratic said:
Ten Hag is 18 months away from being out of contract and knows he is likely getting sh*tcanned under Ratcliffe.
No prospect of an extension when we're within the time period that the club usually makes a balls of it and gives one on increased wages so get his agent to put out some stories out there to see if some goon at the club panics and increases his eventual payoff.

I wouldn't bank on him doing well. Players/Managers not good enough for this club rarely succeed elsewhere.
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Moyes
van Gaal
Mourinho

All achieved relative success after United. Moyes made history with West Ham, Jose returned some form of glory to Roma and is revered as a god there and van Gaal took time out of retirement to get to yet another good world Cup performance with a fairly naff Dutch team that should probably have gone through to the semi finals.

So to say they haven't succeeded elsewhere is simply wrong.
 
The mental gymnastics some of you lot are going to defending Ten Hag is hilariously delusional.

He is essentially causing his own problems.
 
RedRocket9908 said:
Normally I would be happy to give a manager time but Erik has showed he is well out of his depth at Old Trafford, since he come in we have suffered so many embarrasing defeats and set unwanted record after unwanted record despite spending over £400m on players.

At this point I think Erik has lost the dressing room and nothing will improve until he goes.
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If he’d have lost the dressing room then we wouldn’t have played good against Chelsea and dominated them. We’d stop playing all together and the chances will be limited. You can tell when players stop playing like for Ole they did.
 
TsuWave said:
Isn’t it normal for people to change their stance based on new information/knowledge?
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Yes but is it not about time we start being patient. We’ll be no better of next season with a new manager. You can bet on that. Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked after losing week after week and finishing 8th. ETH has done what pep or Klopp haven’t and won a trophy first season.
 
DJ_21 said:
If he’d have lost the dressing room then we wouldn’t have played good against Chelsea and dominated them. We’d stop playing all together and the chances will be limited. You can tell when players stop playing like for Ole they did.
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Reasoning and reality are two things beyond the comprehension for some here.

The fact this is a United side in crisis, seemingly at rock bottom yet on par with last season, still in touch of top 4 and with several big important players on the verge of return is to difficult a thing to grasp. Much easier to chat absolute shite and post more shite off twitter because you lack the basic neurological skills to form basic arguments.
 
DJ_21 said:
We’ll be no better of next season with a new manager. You can bet on that. Arsenal fans wanted Arteta sacked after losing week after week and finishing 8th.
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This Arteta drivel again :lol:

We'll only get worse with each passing month under ETH. You wouldnt be able to bet on it because it's a foregone conclusion.
 
Man-United said:
As bad transfer record as LvG.
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Funny thing with LVG, United tried to sign shaw and Herrera the season before under Moyes. Mad how these are “LvG signings” when they were identified before we knew we were going to hire him.

I don’t think it’s clear exactly how United determines targets as there’s mish mash examples of players bought over the last 11 years who may or may not of been what the manager wanted, but what they got.

ETH wanted Kane , gets Hoijland
Wants FDJ, gets Casemiro
Wants a striker, gets weghorst
Needs a CM, gets Sabitzer/amrabat on loan

These are big first choice signings , even if you do think his top targets aren’t attainable , what does that say about Uniteds capacity for getting its top targets?

You don’t hear madeid or Bayern struggling to get their top targets, we either are a super club that gets sh*t done or we are pretending to be one. Which is it?
 
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KD6-3.7 said:
The mental gymnastics some of you lot are going to defending Ten Hag is hilariously delusional.
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I can understand why some people think it’s time to let him go even if I strongly disagree.

On the flipside I don’t know if it’s just belligerence or retardation on those who share your sentiments but it’s not rocket science why there is such a division of opinion on this.
 
hobbers said:
This Arteta drivel again :lol:

We'll only get worse with each passing month under ETH. You wouldnt be able to bet on it because it's a foregone conclusion.
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I've not mentioned Arteta but could you explain how you knew Arteta would turn it around from a fat, far worse position that ETH is in now before he did?

Or is it with the benefit of hindsight people now claim it was inevitable Arteta was going to become good?

Presumably given the predictions of ETHs future failures, Artetas greatness was foreseen.
 
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