Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Revan said:
That is more whom not to sign (as a gesture of goodwill of his previous clubs, not whom to sign).

Nevertheless, he is Pep Guardiola, arguably the best manager of all time. Not everyone should have the same power as him. Lio Messi also choose some players that Barca should sign, which they did, it does not mean that Antony should get the same power as Messi had at Barca.
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Nonsense. Proof a manager has input into who a club signs and does not sign and you’d rather shift goalposts than deliver substantive proof of your own knowledge as to how a football club is run.
 
pocco said:
I think you could make an argument for Dalot/AWB over Mazraoui, Maguire on current form or Varane over Upamecano, Shaw over Davies, as I think Shaw is better on the ball but not as athletic, and Bruno. I don't rate Goretzka either, so maybe Amrabat (about same level) or Mainoo ahead of him. But like I said, worse teams than us have got a result against them. I reckon they'll get soundly beaten by one of the other PL teams or Real eventually, unless they improve a lot.
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5 of ours from last night get into the Bayern team?

If you believe that you must be very confused by the standard of our play and results. Like how are we this bad if we've so many good players.
 
A lot of people compare Ten Hag to Arteta and Arsenal keeping the faith. In his first season, at their lowest point Arsenal lost 8 of their first 14 league games, quite similar to us really but harder games like Man City, Spurs and Liverpool away. But then they had 47 points in their next 23 (which would average as a 77 point season), then a 'bottled' outside top 4 with 68 points, then 84 points last season.

If Ten Hag turned around and won 47 points in the next 22 games, we might be onto something, but does anyone think that will happen? Our next three games are Liverpool (A), West Ham (A), Aston Villa (H), we would need 6 points + from that to get any kind of momentum going. Most likely we will get 1-3 points from those games, possibly even 0 points, could anyone say we are on the right trajectory as well.

Klopp's first few seasons at Liverpool as well you could see the style of play, in terms of crazy pressing and fast-paced attacking. The defence and goalkeeper were just a shambles, but at least they had a clear strength in attack and the rest just needed to be refined. They never lost that verve in attack. What are United's strengths?

If they were brilliant at the back and lots of 0-0s and 1-0s, at least a top striker might lead to a big upturn in form. If they were brilliant in attack and were conceding 2-3 a game with stupid mistakes, then you could point to needing 1-2 top-class defenders (like Van Dijk and Alisson when they arrived at Liverpool) to hit the next level. Liverpool scored 63 goals... then 78 goals, then 84 goals and scored over 80 goals for 3 straight seasons... we can barely score 60 goals a season.

But there are no strengths. The defence just conceded the most goals of any English team in CL history. The attack is toothless, they are the 15th top scorers in the league (!). -3 goal difference. So what are we supposed to be good at?
 
Losing more than winning is the very definition of free fall.

At current rate we're looking at an 8th-10th place league finish. Smashed out of all competitions.
 
I imagine it has already been decided this is the first decision Ratcliffe and his football team will make upon arrival.
 
It is not so much the results but the football showing no improvements at all that worries me. No chance creation skills, no fluidity, no clever movements. Yeah the players are not very good but this cannot be the best we get out of the team.
 
hobbers said:
Losing more than winning is the very definition of free fall.

At current rate we're looking at an 8th-10th place league finish. Smashed out of all competitions.
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At least for a few more weeks, we've won more than we have lost in the league. It's seems to be a case of all or nothing with United this season as far as the league goes. Not a single drawn game is unusual.
 
I simply don't see an upside to sacking him now. We're out of Europe, out of the League Cup, so basically won't have a lot of '3 day rests' like he's had for years. In theory then, he should get more time with players, more time for injury recoveries and so forth. So he gets, essentially, 6 months to actually show what he can do. If he fails, we know he's failed, and can properly plan for the summer. If he succeeds, great.

Getting rid now, especially bringing in some kind of caretaker, is just daft. We'll learn nothing at all. A proper new manager will need to be in the summer, so you can lay that ground work while he's still here.
 
Beachryan said:
I simply don't see an upside to sacking him now. We're out of Europe, out of the League Cup, so basically won't have a lot of '3 day rests' like he's had for years. In theory then, he should get more time with players, more time for injury recoveries and so forth. So he gets, essentially, 6 months to actually show what he can do. If he fails, we know he's failed, and can properly plan for the summer. If he succeeds, great.

Getting rid now, especially bringing in some kind of caretaker, is just daft. We'll learn nothing at all. A proper new manager will need to be in the summer, so you can lay that ground work while he's still here.
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When he fails, the usual suspects will say that he needs another season now that INEOS is putting a structure in place, and let's see what he does with such a structure. After all, he is a good coach managed to reach semis with Ajax and won the league cup.

And when he fails again, the random-generator excuse-cult will generate some other excuse for him to continue (in addition to the default one, who is right there that can improve us).
 
Revan said:
When he fails, the usual suspects will say that he needs another season now that INEOS is putting a structure in place, and let's see what he does with such a structure. After all, he is a good coach managed to reach semis with Ajax and won the league cup.

And when he fails again, the random-generator excuse-cult will generate some other excuse for him to continue (in addition to the default one, who is right there that can improve us).
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Oh if we're not towards the top of both xG and form tables in the new year he absolutely has to go. This is amnesty for mitigating circumstances and some decent stuff last season.
 
KeanoMagicHat said:
A lot of people compare Ten Hag to Arteta and Arsenal keeping the faith. In his first season, at their lowest point Arsenal lost 8 of their first 14 league games, quite similar to us really but harder games like Man City, Spurs and Liverpool away. But then they had 47 points in their next 23 (which would average as a 77 point season), then a 'bottled' outside top 4 with 68 points, then 84 points last season.
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IMO one significant factor often overlooked when comparing ETH to Arteta is what they've spent. Not to mention Arteta inherited a worse squad than ETH (we were 10th when he arrived!). Comparing their first 3 transfer windows, Arteta spent £80mil and ETH about £400mil. If we take into account 4 windows for Arteta (as he arrived mid-season), he still spent half (about £200mil) of what ETH has in 3 windows. ETH was heavily backed straight away. We couldn't afford to do that so our squad rebuilding was more gradual and we first had to offload players and restructure our wage bill. As we (very) slowly improved, Arteta was increasingly backed in the transfer market.
 
Revan said:
When he fails, the usual suspects will say that he needs another season now that INEOS is putting a structure in place, and let's see what he does with such a structure. After all, he is a good coach managed to reach semis with Ajax and won the league cup.

And when he fails again, the random-generator excuse-cult will generate some other excuse for him to continue (in addition to the default one, who is right there that can improve us).
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Imagine the scenes when it turns out INEOS has already done all their due diligence and come to the conclusion that he's not the right fit for their structure.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Imagine the scenes when it turns out INEOS has already done all their due diligence and come to the conclusion that he's not the right fit for their structure.
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Let's hope that they have their own ideas in mind, and that they are different to those of our fanbase (support/defend the manager at all costs).

If they listen to the fanbase and to our ex-players, the nightmare will continue.
 
I think it's way too early to judge things and there is no proper replacement available. One of the major problems is Rashford, who could forsee that coming. You might say Martial shouldn't be in the squad anymore and Onana, Mount and Hojlund were bad transfers. But that's about it. On top you have Martial, Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood not available and injuries. It's hard to see how any manager can do better.
So Bayern bought Sadio Mane last year and it was a big mistake. They adjusted it this year with Kane. Klopp had bad keepers in the beginning, then they bought Karius and thought he is better. But it was a mistake and they adjusted with Allisson. It happens. I think it's clear for everyone that United need offensive skill, maybe a keeper and getting rid of the bad apples, the rest is actually a good team in my opinion. The winter transfer window presents a big opportunity here.
If you get a new coach now, Rashford and maybe even Sancho might perform again, you finish 4th and next year or in two years you have the exact same situation. Also which coach is available and which one would actually come, Nagelsmann for example already turned down Chelsea last year.
 
Berbaclass said:
I still support him but I think he’s gone.
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And replace with whom ? With lot of uncertainty over the ownership the worst thing Glazers can do is sack him and appoint another one. Knowing Glazers they will do exactly that.

Hope for once, they will man up and sort the ownership issues first. As long as we aren't getting relegated, stick to ETH. Once we have a proper structure, make a call.

It would be catastrophic if we sack him now. Will achieve nothing with the amount of players injured.
 
It’s interesting listening to Jaap Stam on Stick To Football where he talks about him and Johnsen being left two on two for counters because everyone else bombed forward. And that they could handle it.

It’s not too dissimilar to how ETH sets us up. Very attacking. Big gaps left behind but obviously we lack the personnel to actually make it work regularly.
 
GoonerGirly said:
IMO one significant factor often overlooked when comparing ETH to Arteta is what they've spent. Not to mention Arteta inherited a worse squad than ETH (we were 10th when he arrived!). Comparing their first 3 transfer windows, Arteta spent £80mil and ETH about £400mil. If we take into account 4 windows for Arteta (as he arrived mid-season), he still spent half (about £200mil) of what ETH has in 3 windows. ETH was heavily backed straight away. We couldn't afford to do that so our squad rebuilding was more gradual and we first had to offload players and restructure our wage bill. As we (very) slowly improved, Arteta was increasingly backed in the transfer market.
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We need to pin this post
 
I'm somehow even more numb than I was a couple months ago if that is possible. If he is sacked or not, I really don't think it matters unless Ratcliffe can actually make some strategic decisions for the Club. I like ETH but this job seems impossible for anyone with our players and structure.
 
Manchester United have a net transfer loss of over £1.2b in the last ten years, the highest in the country by some distance. Maybe the world, I haven’t checked.

You need a complete change of strategy, but it will be one that fans really don’t like. Young “no name” manager, young “no name” players replacing your aging, overpaid and undermotivated stars.

You’ll have to stop buying the flavour of the month for extremely inflated prices and invest in better value options and, you know, give them time to develop in a well-structured, organised system.

And when you’re 6th-9th after 18 months, keep with the plan and let the players grow and develop into the system, with the manager’s position not in question.

Of course, none of this will ever happen. It’ll be sacking Ten Hag, getting in next one, spend another £200m, and repeat.

It comes from the top, guys.
 
GoonerGirly said:
IMO one significant factor often overlooked when comparing ETH to Arteta is what they've spent. Not to mention Arteta inherited a worse squad than ETH (we were 10th when he arrived!). Comparing their first 3 transfer windows, Arteta spent £80mil and ETH about £400mil. If we take into account 4 windows for Arteta (as he arrived mid-season), he still spent half (about £200mil) of what ETH has in 3 windows. ETH was heavily backed straight away. We couldn't afford to do that so our squad rebuilding was more gradual and we first had to offload players and restructure our wage bill. As we (very) slowly improved, Arteta was increasingly backed in the transfer market.
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Good point. But Arteta was also a bit «lucky» with Saka and Martinelli (and probably even Saliba). I also think he came in for a quite decent coach with a similar approach to the fundamentals.
 
Amira said:
We need to pin this post
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The fallacy here is that it's being attributed as a ten hag problem. Man utd misspent long before him. Arsenal's efficiency of how they allocated resources was always better, and that's non manager specific.
 
I have been Hag-In all the way up until today.

I now think there is a bigger chance a new manager turns this around, than him doing it.
I really hope it would have worked, and i would be more positive to him if we played some fun football, but we dont even do that.

Bring in a manager that actually gets his team to play the way that is the reason for us to hire him.
 
GoonerGirly said:
IMO one significant factor often overlooked when comparing ETH to Arteta is what they've spent. Not to mention Arteta inherited a worse squad than ETH (we were 10th when he arrived!). Comparing their first 3 transfer windows, Arteta spent £80mil and ETH about £400mil. If we take into account 4 windows for Arteta (as he arrived mid-season), he still spent half (about £200mil) of what ETH has in 3 windows. ETH was heavily backed straight away. We couldn't afford to do that so our squad rebuilding was more gradual and we first had to offload players and restructure our wage bill. As we (very) slowly improved, Arteta was increasingly backed in the transfer market.
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He showed progress so was given more to spend is logical. I don't know how people would trust Ten Hag with another £200-300 million given what he's bought so far.
 
First it was "time + faith = SAF"
Then it became "time + faith = Pep / Klopp"
Now it's "time + faith = Arteta"

Give it another month and it'll become "time + faith = Hodgson"
 
i am still Ten Hag in but his persistent stubbornness with certain things is starting to wear on me.

i get he spent a lot, some wasnt his fault (probably could have bought Antony for half the price if we had competent people)

when balancing what he spent, he has also been handcuffed a good bit also, Wout is the main example along with the other subpar loans we have had to do.

i get last year we were lucky with form and injuries. this year has been the opposite. it happens.

but leaving out varane, mainoo when he came back and keepign with mctominay when he should be a last 15 minutes off the bench is troublesome.
 
Gary Neville at Valencia....

28 games
11 loses
39 goals
38 goals conceded

Ten Hag 23/24....

24 games
12 loses
33 goals
39 goals conceded
£175mil spent at start of season.
 
andersj said:
Good point. But Arteta was also a bit «lucky» with Saka and Martinelli (and probably even Saliba). I also think he came in for a quite decent coach with a similar approach to the fundamentals.
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Yes for all of Emery’s faults during his time with us, he brought in Martinelli and Saliba, and gave Saka his first team start.
 
BootsyCollins said:
I have been Hag-In all the way up until today.

I now think there is a bigger chance a new manager turns this around, than him doing it.
I really hope it would have worked, and i would be more positive to him if we played some fun football, but we dont even do that.

Bring in a manager that actually gets his team to play the way that is the reason for us to hire him.
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A loss to Bayern was your tipping point?
 
His results are so bad that I think he should consider resigning. He might have the worst season ever after Alex retired shows how bad he is. I can't wait for him to get sack, complete fraud.
 
erikcred said:
A loss to Bayern was your tipping point?
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No and yes.

Not the loss in it self, but just that it dont get any better if you know what i mean.
No playing style
The players dont get any better
No fire in their bellys
Weird selections almost every match
Weird subs

My real tipping point was the Bournemouth match, have never been as angry after a match as that, but this was the match that made me resign on the idea that he could turn it around.
 
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