Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Sarni]

Yeah but did Neville beat Villa, Burnley, Charlton, Nottingham Forest and Newcastle to win a league cup?

HE WON A TROPHY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sarni]

This is even worse than ole's last season, we was even able to qualify out of the ucl group stage that season with a tougher group than the current one, the season has write off written all over it, I don't think we have had a manager post fergie that has weakened us so much with his squad building like eth, he doesn't deserve any say in any future transfers which is also a concern as I could imagine him snubbing such players if they weren't picked by him with current form of falling out with players that he did not recruit.

This is worse than any season in the last 10 years and by quite a distance too.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

The end of the line is fast approaching now.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Bayern proved that they took this serious, yes. They also proved that they currently lack inspiration, speed and confidence and are not in form right now. They did enough to calm down the media onslaught but they still performed below expectations. The pressure is still on for team and manager there.

Which is all true and of zero relevance to us. At their best their better than us at orbest period. So at full strength and being proffessional rather than inspired. I don't see where anyone gets off expecting us to have produced fire works yesterday in our current prevailing state and pretending that the lack of surprise the majority of us have as to that is 'dropping standards".....


Frankly I expected zero tonight and I expect utter misery away to pool and Villa with the added injury and suspensions and then a likely sacking of ETH and his staff. Barring a major miracle.


And we won't he better till we sort out our footballing department with a proper direction lead by a top draw DOF and a competent recruitment structure. Before we even think of troubling a new manager with our thankless job.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

We absolutely need someone qualified to make football decisions in a role above the manager, but this manager cannot stay in a job for the rest of the season.

So you want qualified football people in a role above the manager, but you want the current unqualified people to make a call on who should be our manager for the rest of the season ?

 

[Marwood]

The regression this season has been scary. Yes he's had injuries to deal with but he's shown too much stubbornness in his set up and has continued to play players that are out of form. How Bruno has continued to get the minutes he's had is beyond a joke, captain or not captain. It's a shame as I was really excited to have ETH here and yes the toxicity goes well beyond the playing squad, but his inability to try something different is going to cost him his job

Casemiro, Mainoo, Eriksen, Mount all out for good periods. McTominay rubbish. You want Bruno dropped as well. How? Who plays instead?

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

This is even worse than ole's last season, we was even able to qualify out of the ucl group stage that season with a tougher group than the current one, the season has write off written all over it, I don't think we have had a manager post fergie that has weakened us so much with his squad building like eth, he doesn't deserve any say in any future transfers which is also a concern as I could imagine him snubbing such players if they weren't picked by him with current form of falling out with players that he did not recruit.

Do some of you think quoting stats tells the story of the season ? We have had a terrible season, yey, no denying it, but theres also no denying that its not all down to the manager, no matter how much some of you desperately want to believe it.

I dont remember most of Oles starting 11 injured for most of the season. I dont remember the 2 player scandals at the start of a season. I dont remember the disjointed ownership questions that nobody actually knows how much might be destabilising the team. I dont remember Ole having at least one senior player act unprofessionaly and totally try to undermine him in two seperate seasons. Dont remember Ole having a world cup squeezed into the middle of a gruelling schedule that even hammered the great Klopps Liverpool last season.

And with regards to the injuries, its not just missing players for a few games, its then a question of players trying to get back to full fitness which takes weeks. Look at what happened to shaw, becasue of injuries we cant rotate him in and he gets injured. There is no letup and there is no comparison with other clubs when you add all the other sh*t going on.

But sure lets just focus on stats in isolation that confirm what you want to believe.

 

[RedUnited86]

Out of Europe, out of ideas, out of his mind and out of his depth. And he should be out on his arse after the drubbing on Sunday.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

There's a bare minimum a coach should be able to do and finishing last in a group that had Galatasaray and Copenhagen is certainly didn't fall under that.

Yes you can point out bad owners, badly run club but you can't tell me that those clubs have better players than us. And better managers. This is just gross incompetency and people are just throwing "bad owners" and "badly run club" like popping candy on anything said against ETH.

 

[Lee565]

Do some of you think quoting stats tells the story of the season ? We have had a terrible season, yey, no denying it, but theres also no denying that its not all down to the manager, no matter how much some of you desperately want to believe it.

I dont remember most of Oles starting 11 injured for most of the season. I dont remember the 2 player scandals at the start of a season. I dont remember the disjointed ownership questions that nobody actually knows how much might be destabilising the team. I dont remember Ole having at least one senior player act unprofessionaly and totally try to undermine him in two seperate seasons. Dont remember Ole having a world cup squeezed into the middle of a gruelling schedule that even hammered the great Klopps Liverpool last season.

And with regards to the injuries, its not just missing players for a few games, its then a question of players trying to get back to full fitness which takes weeks. Look at what happened to shaw, becasue of injuries we cant rotate him in and he gets injured. There is no letup and there is no comparison with other clubs when you add all the other sh*t going on.

But sure lets just focus on stats in isolation that confirm what you want to believe.

But isn't just stats, the football is lifeless, Bayern basically had a training match against us in second gear and still won, that was a must win game but we made it look like an of the season game with nothing to play for, he caused the sancho issue himself, he didn't need to go public, he could have handled it behind closed doors, same with mourinho and ragnick when they openly singled out players in public, it's poor man management

 

[Skills]

The worst manager we've had post-SAF considering his management this season. He's the worst of every manager post-SAF and even worse than that. It's appalling how bad we are. We've never spent more money backing a manager and never been this bad. It's abject management.

The general cluelessness of Moyes, but even Moyes made it out of a CL group stage. Moyes had heavy home defeats, but they were to City/Liverpool. This manager gets destroyed by Newcastle's 2nd XI, Brighton and Bournemouth at Old Trafford. Moyes also didn't lose more games than he won by December.

Shit on a stick attacking football in the league like Van Gaal, but our current pace has us scoring less goals than Van Gaal's 2015-2016 season. We scored less last season than Van Gaal's debut season. Van Gaal also didn't have a player like Rashford who banged 30 goals in all competition last season. A completely inability to carve out chances like Van Gaal's 2nd season, but even worse this season. We're like 10th in most metrics for xG and chance creation.

The contradictions of Mourinho. He talks about upholding standards constantly, but doesn't uphold the standards himself. He's suffered more embarrassing defeats than any manager post-SAF, but goes on and on about standards needing to be hit. Made up some nonsense about why Varane can't play LCB over Evans, and then Evans plays RCB today while Varane is the LCB.

Ole-like with how dysfunctional and individualistic the team's shape is. We play a 3-1-6 build-up despite numerous evidence that it doesn't work for us and there's simply zero adaptability from him to make changes to turn us into a drilled unit. The worst of Ole, but he's been backed even more than Ole has. And despite the flaws of Ole, we could score plenty of goals. We're incapable of scoring goals with ETH.

There is simply no defense for how bad his management has been this season. We ship goals galore in our home defeats. 7 home defeats already. We've a negative GD in the league and UCL. 18 league goals in 16 games. -3 GD in the league. More losses than wins in all competitions. The charisma of a rock. Zero wins away from home vs any half-decent team.

Conman and anyone defending this manager is a giant WUM. Support the club 1st instead of supporting a manager who's not built up anywhere near the goodwill matching the excuses people make for him.

Good post.

 

[Redstain]

Do some of you think quoting stats tells the story of the season ? We have had a terrible season, yey, no denying it, but theres also no denying that its not all down to the manager, no matter how much some of you desperately want to believe it.

I dont remember most of Oles starting 11 injured for most of the season. I dont remember the 2 player scandals at the start of a season. I dont remember the disjointed ownership questions that nobody actually knows how much might be destabilising the team. I dont remember Ole having at least one senior player act unprofessionaly and totally try to undermine him in two seperate seasons. Dont remember Ole having a world cup squeezed into the middle of a gruelling schedule that even hammered the great Klopps Liverpool last season.

And with regards to the injuries, its not just missing players for a few games, its then a question of players trying to get back to full fitness which takes weeks. Look at what happened to shaw, becasue of injuries we cant rotate him in and he gets injured. There is no letup and there is no comparison with other clubs when you add all the other sh*t going on.

But sure lets just focus on stats in isolation that confirm what you want to believe.

But these are just excuses which are derivatives to gratify poor performances. Saying the manager has no accountability is otherwise suggesting United can lose every single game for the rest of the season from here on out and it's justifiable. Both perspectives are cases of extremism.

United have lost games they should be winning, even with some of the fringe players drafted in United have had the superior quality which suggests many of this teams struggles have been tactical insufficiencies as opposed to being blown away by opposition quality.

There were early signs this could erupt into a poor campaign, even with more selections the pre seasons performances have somewhat transpired into what we have seen this season. Erik last year also made next to no rotations throughout the squad consistently and was criticised for it how much of a influence has this had on injuries with the demands of his training routines ?

I'd say that 70% of this season's misfortunes are down to the manager, injuries and hierarchy make up the rest. Bring in a competent director of football and a structure it doesn't help Casemiro having to cover large distances due to being isolated by the manager finding a lack of balance between Mount and Bruno positionally. New structure doesn't all of a sudden give Hojlund quality service into the box. New structure doesn't aid the goal difference Rashford glossed over last season with his contribution. Some things Erik will need to fix himself.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Do some of you think quoting stats tells the story of the season ? We have had a terrible season, yey, no denying it, but theres also no denying that its not all down to the manager, no matter how much some of you desperately want to believe it.

I dont remember most of Oles starting 11 injured for most of the season. I dont remember the 2 player scandals at the start of a season. I dont remember the disjointed ownership questions that nobody actually knows how much might be destabilising the team. I dont remember Ole having at least one senior player act unprofessionaly and totally try to undermine him in two seperate seasons. Dont remember Ole having a world cup squeezed into the middle of a gruelling schedule that even hammered the great Klopps Liverpool last season.

And with regards to the injuries, its not just missing players for a few games, its then a question of players trying to get back to full fitness which takes weeks. Look at what happened to shaw, becasue of injuries we cant rotate him in and he gets injured. There is no letup and there is no comparison with other clubs when you add all the other sh*t going on.

But sure lets just focus on stats in isolation that confirm what you want to believe.

don't be so surprised. Nuance is not a strong suit of most of our members.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Apparently only 3 teams have lost more games than us in all comps this season.

Assuming this means in the European leagues of course.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeLPQPeL/

 

[ManUtd1999]

Tell me, what he should come out to the media and say about that scenario?

Maybe start by not describing our level yesterday as “very good”?

 

[Loon]

18-24 months from now they’ll be a new thread, [INSERT NAME] - Manchester United manager and it’ll be the same because he’s not the only thing that would have to go for things to change.

Ratcliffe and Co have a huge fecking job.

 

[parmenio]

It’s Fascinating that some on here are trying to defend ETH. He’s not good enough simple as that. He’s failed his audition for the new ownership structure and failed badly. Awful signings and clueless tactically. Yes we have injuries and bad injuries at that however Shaw who is brilliant when fit is an eggshell. So his injury is not unexpected. Dalot has had a terrible season yet plays virtually every game. Despite spending £400m our squad is paper thin and full of players who think they are way better than they are. He’s no better than Ole and at least Ole was one of us.
We desperately need to get out of the sack the manager and rebuild cycle. However we need a manager worthy of being the Manchester United manager to do so. It’s the biggest role in the UK for sure no matter what the online keyboard warriors / trolls say. Arguably biggest in world football. ETH just doesn’t have what’s needed. With Sir Jim at the helm we need a new Manager and a total clear out of the Martials, Sancho, Rashford and whoever else is not committed to the club. No more backstabbing sniping players and a cohesive leadership structure. Time to move forwards decisively.

 

[Redstain]

18-24 months from now they’ll be a new thread, [INSERT NAME] - Manchester United manager and it’ll be the same because he’s not the only thing that would have to go for things to change.

Ratcliffe and Co have a huge fecking job.

They have a huge job picking the right manager if Eth can't turn things around.

I know this club isn't familiar with change because of having one man in charge for such a period of time but how many competitive clubs across Europe have had one coach in charge in excess of five years ? It's a very minimal figure. I think where fans look at LVG, Jose, Ole and Ragnick as a negative impetus on the club, I see a scenario where it's going to take a special manager to rejuvenate United.

I think everyone including SAF underestimated what it takes to manage a club of this magnitude.

 

[SirMonteyne]

ETH has been incredibly lucky, as almost every win could have easily turned into a loss or draw, making us fight for survival in the league. It's absurd.

 

[JagUTD]

The regression this season has been scary. Yes he's had injuries to deal with but he's shown too much stubbornness in his set up and has continued to play players that are out of form. How Bruno has continued to get the minutes he's had is beyond a joke, captain or not captain. It's a shame as I was really excited to have ETH here and yes the toxicity goes well beyond the playing squad, but his inability to try something different is going to cost him his job

Somehow, in spite of us clearly being shite, performance and results wise, we haven't actually regressed in terms of points.

Europe has been a disaster by all metrics of course but in the league of the teams that have regressed, we are a single point worse off while the heavily praised Newcastle are 8 worse off and already crowned champions City are 5.

Nobody can claim we haven't played any of the big boys either. We have and we've lost them all. Still, somehow we are on par with last season. It defys logic tbh.

Honestly can anyone make sense of it without descending into a rant about how it's all Ten Hags fault. It's not like we are just beating cannon fodder, cannon fodder just smashed us 3-0 at home. Last season we had beaten both Arsenal and Liverpool at this stage and we're dropping more points against lesser opposition. We had a 0 goal difference but at least had a striker scoring goals while this season we don't have a striker of any description doing anything.

There's no question we are playing worse. We have been shocking apart from a few games. As people keep saying, we have lost 7 already. We've also won more games this season.

I think it's both a positive and negative in terms of Ten Has performance. He has been poor, made odd decisions, not been quick enough to change games which was a big positive for him last season. On the flip side he's somehow managed to match last season, keep points coming in even when we are bad, find ways to win games without any single player carrying us or stepping up as we have seen before. There's something to be said for that I am sure.

From now until the end of the season we will play close to 50% fewer games than we did from this point last season. The burn out we saw then which has leaked into this season should be less of a issue, hopefully anyway. Maybe the season can be salvaged.

 

[Revan]

18-24 months from now they’ll be a new thread, [INSERT NAME] - Manchester United manager and it’ll be the same because he’s not the only thing that would have to go for things to change.

Ratcliffe and Co have a huge fecking job.

That will probably be the case. Until the deluded owners/directors and the deluded fanbase change their way of thinking, that the manager is just an employee, not the reason for the club's existence and someone to be worshipped, we will be fecked.

I hope we normalize the process of sacking the managers. The best thing it can happen to this clueless club is if we sack a few managers in a short amount of time, to the point where sacking the manager for being unsuccessful is the expected thing to do, not the anathema. In this way, hopefully this weird cult finally dies. Combine it with adding a football structure above the manager, and removing any power of anything that is not 'coaching the squad and picking the squad' from the manager.

Then, only then, we might start looking like something which is not the laughing stock of football.

 

[Loon]

They have a huge job picking the right manager if Eth can't turn things around.

I know this club isn't familiar with change because of having one man in charge for such a period of time but how many competitive clubs across Europe have had one coach in charge in excess of five years ? It's a very minimal figure. I think where fans look at LVG, Jose, Ole and Ragnick as a negative impetus on the club I see a scenario where it's going to take a special manager to rejuvenate United.

Yup. I could quite easily see an “Zinedine Zidane - Manchester United manager” thread with exactly the same comments seen throughout this thread two years from now.

Honestly ponder: Have the tactics and personnel changed so dramatically since last season when we were better or is it the temperament of the players?

 

[spiriticon]

We need to keep trying new things until we find something that works. I'm sorry to say that but that's the path the club chose, as much as I disagreed with it 10 years ago.

Sticking with one manager and hoping he changes into the next Fergie is a stupid idea to start now, as we have already made such a big mess of the structure that Fergie left behind. If wanted to do this sort of romantic idealistic shit, then we should have stuck with Moyes all those years ago as he was the one Fergie recommended.

Moyes would have had 10 years in the job by now and would probably have us in a better place than we are currently.

 

[Bobade]

ETH took over a broken club and over achieved last season. I think that’s really worked against him as people expect an upward trajectory and can’t manage road bumps like this season.

I don’t dispute the poor performances and the awful season, you can’t argue with what we see. But I really do feel that there’s been plenty of reasons why things were going to be harder this season. I think there’s plenty of non ETH reasons why things have been sh8t and with everything going on any mistake by the manager is causing more problems then A mistake at a club that maybe just has one problem.

Replacimg the manager to me is small fries. It’s looking for short term gain at a club that doesn’t even have a plan at this stage. Nobody can probably even make that call because the ownership situation. How can anybody think that sacking a manager and replacing them with such turmoil and uncertainty would be a good thing.

Id rather they focus in January in offloading martial and anybody, everybdog else who has been a problem. Discount down to get rid and fill the first team with youth and maybe some loanees. Mid table target, no fa cup but go into the summer with an actual plan and a proper blank slate.

Part of our issue I feel has been this pathetic top 4 target that the owners have. When we match it , their spending always stopped. I think ETH has changed tactics, as every United manager has done, because this is the one thing thing that was demanded , top 4. And as such, we see short term changes to the team , short term signings and there’s no long term cohesion.

I don’t want ETH sacked because he’s been perfect, I don’t want him sacked because I think our issues are far higher than any manager in the world can fix. I think if a manager comes in and gets us top 4 it’s the worst thing imaginable as that’s how Ole got the Job and nothing changed.

I dont want mediocrity , I want excellence, I want the club getting the most out of our resource. I don’t see that happening while we focus on managers to make our broken club work. I see the desperation for a new manager as just that, desperation and I think that in this desperation the idea of change , any change, gives a glimmer of hope
But it’s false hope without the infrastructure changes.

I also want excellence. But your argument is that until we can achieve excellence by basically rehauling the entire club, management structure, facilities, ownership and board we should just leave a manager in place who will preside over poor performances every single week and spend money on players that don't drive us forward and potentially actively make us worse.

And the worst thing imaginable would be for a manager to come in and get us to 4th, instead of ETH getting us to 7th? What a weird take. You can target both long and short term success you know.

I do understand your point, before you claim im missing it. I just disagree wholeheartedly. You don't achieve excellence by allowing mediocrity until all the pieces are in position, in my opinion.

 

[Skills]

That will probably be the case. Until the deluded owners/directors and the deluded fanbase change their way of thinking, that the manager is just an employee, not the reason for the club's existence and someone to be worshipped, we will be fecked.

I hope we normalize the process of sacking the managers. The best thing it can happen to this clueless club is if we sack a few managers in a short amount of time, to the point where sacking the manager for being unsuccessful is the expected thing to do, not the anathema. In this way, hopefully this weird cult finally dies. Combine it with adding a football structure above the manager, and removing any power of anything that is not 'coaching the squad and picking the squad' from the manager.

Then, only then, we might start looking like something which is not the laughing stock of football.

Fully agreed.

 

[Alex99]

That will probably be the case. Until the deluded owners/directors and the deluded fanbase change their way of thinking, that the manager is just an employee, not the reason for the club's existence and someone to be worshipped, we will be fecked.

I hope we normalize the process of sacking the managers. The best thing it can happen to this clueless club is if we sack a few managers in a short amount of time, to the point where sacking the manager for being unsuccessful is the expected thing to do, not the anathema. In this way, hopefully this weird cult finally dies. Combine it with adding a football structure above the manager, and removing any power of anything that is not 'coaching the squad and picking the squad' from the manager.

Then, only then, we might start looking like something which is not the laughing stock of football.

We have literally sacked every single manager since Fergie, in a short amount of time, for being unsuccesful.

Moyes was sacked once we couldn't qualify for the CL, van Gaal was sacked for failing to get top four (despite winning a trophy), Mourinho was sacked as soon as it looked like top four was no longer realistic, Ole the same. Ten Hag is very likely to go this month.

It's been 10 years. We've slid the whole time. We can't sack managers much more quickly than we are, unless by "unsuccessful" you mean not immediately mounting a title charge?

 

[Revan]

They have a huge job picking the right manager if Eth can't turn things around.

I know this club isn't familiar with change because of having one man in charge for such a period of time but how many competitive clubs across Europe have had one coach in charge in excess of five years ? It's a very minimal figure. I think where fans look at LVG, Jose, Ole and Ragnick as a negative impetus on the club, I see a scenario where it's going to take a special manager to rejuvenate United.

I think everyone including SAF underestimated what it takes to manage a club of this magnitude.

I think this is one of the problems this club faces. Not picking the right manager, but the way of thinking that picking the right manager is the most important thing to do for a club.

The challenge should not be picking the right manager. The challenge should be picking the right football structure above the manager, so that the club is successful regardless of the manager. So that the manager is just a cog in a well-oiled machine. So that manager can be sacked 4 weeks into their regime if they show to be not good. So that if needed we can go over 2-3 managers in a season and still have a very successful season. So that finally it becomes 'supporting the club', without needing to add to it 'and the manager'.

The manager is just an employee and if we want to be successful again, we (the club bosses and the fanbase) should start treating him like an employee. Not like the man who stands above the club.

 

[Loon]

That will probably be the case. Until the deluded owners/directors and the deluded fanbase change their way of thinking, that the manager is just an employee, not the reason for the club's existence and someone to be worshipped, we will be fecked.

I hope we normalize the process of sacking the managers. The best thing it can happen to this clueless club is if we sack a few managers in a short amount of time, to the point where sacking the manager for being unsuccessful is the expected thing to do, not the anathema. In this way, hopefully this weird cult finally dies. Combine it with adding a football structure above the manager, and removing any power of anything that is not 'coaching the squad and picking the squad' from the manager.

Then, only then, we might start looking like something which is not the laughing stock of football.

So, not giving the manager any say in his team personnel would rule out pretty much every available manager in football from taking the job. Guardiola, Klopp, Anchelotti, would all rightly say “no thanks” to such a set up.

Deluded fanbase indeed.

 

[Oranges038]

18-24 months from now they’ll be a new thread, [INSERT NAME] - Manchester United manager and it’ll be the same because he’s not the only thing that would have to go for things to change.

Ratcliffe and Co have a huge fecking job.

It will always be that way unless the manager is winning the league and going deep in the CL every year. The club is a mess, just changing the manager is not going to change anything anytime soon.

Last night should be an eye opener to many as to just how far Utd players are away from being able to compete with top clubs regularly for trophies in Europe or at home. Style of play or not, they are just miles off the technical levels, pace and physicality required.

I've said it before, regardless of whether or ETH is sacked Sunday or Monday or at the end of the season. Utd are at least 3 years away from competing for the League or making a reasonable impact in the CL.

If ETH is to be sacked.

I would have liked to have seen Marcelo Gallardo given the job for the season, there's a good South American contingent in the squad that maybe he would connect well with. But sadly that ship has sailed as he's gone to take the Saudi money.

 

[Revan]

We have literally sacked every single manager since Fergie, in a short amount of time, for being unsuccesful.

Moyes was sacked once we couldn't qualify for the CL, van Gaal was sacked for failing to get top four (despite winning a trophy), Mourinho was sacked as soon as it looked like top four was no longer realistic, Ole the same. Ten Hag is very likely to go this month.

It's been 10 years. We've slid the whole time. We can't sack managers much more quickly than we are, unless by "unsuccessful" you mean not immediately mounting a title charge?

We have not. Everyone of them should have been sacked ages earlier. Moyes would not have reached October if he was at Real or Bayern (see Lopetegui). Van Gaal would not have got the second season in those clubs (see almost every manager who does not win the league). Ole would have been sacked in the first summer (see Solari). ten Hag at Madrid would have been already sacked this season (see Benitez).

Most of the big clubs like Real, Barca, Bayern have had more managers than us during the post-SAF spell. While those have been successful. In bad seasons, they go over 2-3 managers without a problem, and never wait for the season to be over to finally sack the manager.

Considering how shit we have been in this decade, we absolutely should and could have sacked managers earlier.

 

[Skills]

So, not giving the manager any say in his team personnel would rule out pretty much every available manager in football from taking the job. Guardiola, Klopp, Anchelotti, would all rightly say “no thanks” to such a set up.

Deluded fanbase indeed.

Those 2 aren't available for us anyway. Ancelotti has always worked under head strong, authoritarian presidents and directors.

All of the other managers in football aren't good enough to indulge or demand that sort of influence over assets worth in the 100s of millions.

 

[Revan]

So, not giving the manager any say in his team personnel would rule out pretty much every available manager in football from taking the job. Guardiola, Klopp, Anchelotti, would all rightly say “no thanks” to such a set up.

Deluded fanbase indeed.

Guardiola and Klopp have almost no say in whom the club signs. Klopp wanted some completely different players and Liverpool asked hom to feck off and brought Salah instead. Ancelotti has no say whatsoever, pretty much no manager in Real Madrid decides what players they sign. They might request specific types of players (for example feel that they are short a winger or a striker), but not whom to sign.

The managers are not scouts or head-scouts. They are coaches.

 

[crossy1686]

So you want qualified football people in a role above the manager, but you want the current unqualified people to make a call on who should be our manager for the rest of the season ?

They don't have to do anything except sack the manager, put the assistant in charge and wait for the new owners to tell them who the new manager will be. INEOS can still conduct an interview process remotely, they don't have to be in the building to hire a manager.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

I also want excellence. But your argument is that until we can achieve excellence by basically rehauling the entire club, management structure, facilities, ownership and board we should just leave a manager in place who will preside over poor performances every single week and spend money on players that don't drive us forward and potentially actively make us worse.

And the worst thing imaginable would be for a manager to come in and get us to 4th, instead of ETH getting us to 7th? What a weird take. You can target both long and short term success you know.

I do understand your point, before you claim im missing it. I just disagree wholeheartedly. You don't achieve excellence by allowing mediocrity until all the pieces are in position, in my opinion.

The whole keeping ETH even if things get worse is a view I have because I don’t see change happening under the glazers while interims or alternatives come in and get them their coveted top 4 spot.

That’s the reason I’d be happy for a mid table season, if it forced the glazers hand, like the super league fiasco forced them to sack Woodward (he should have been sacked after signing fellaini). They don’t change things unless they are forced to do so. A interim coach getting top four means they can carry on like they have been doing.

We shouldnt need chaos or this pain but the glazers don’t change anything without it. That’s why I don’t want top 4 with a new manager unless there is massive change.

 

[Loon]

It

Guardiola and Klopp have almost no say in whom the club signs. Klopp wanted some completely different players and Liverpool asked hom to feck off and brought Salah instead. Ancelotti has no say whatsoever, pretty much no manager in Real Madrid decides what players they sign. They might request specific types of players (for example feel that they are short a winger or a striker), but not whom to sign.

The managers are not scouts or head-scouts. They are coaches.

Prove it. Where does your knowledge of the inner workings or Manchester City and Liverpool come from?

 

[crossy1686]

The Overlap (Neville, Carragher, Wright and Keane, featuring Japp Stam) from an hour ago talking about Ten Hag. Stam reluctant to throw him under the bus but none of them were positive about his chances.

 

[Trigg]

Makes zero sense to sack him now with the situation above him. I don’t see what we gain in doing so.

 

[Loon]

Those 2 aren't available for us anyway. Ancelotti has always worked under head strong, authoritarian presidents and directors.

All of the other managers in football aren't good enough to indulge or demand that sort of influence over assets worth in the 100s of millions.

So, Ancelotti’s success is purely down to those above him? Right. And former B team manager and player Pep Guardiola should never have been given the chance then as he was’t good enough?

 

[crossy1686]

Makes zero sense to sack him now with the situation above him. I don’t see what we gain in doing so.

We stop losing games?

 

[Loon]

We stop losing games?

Sadly, that’s not guaranteed