Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
People post that is 'not a bad result' or that's it's expected? feck me, the standards have dropped.
We might have injuries and we clearly need better players, but the manager has had 18 months and 400m to work with, and we're worse for it.
Ole set us back and Ten Hag is just as shit. Fraud.
 
Interest in watching this team has reduced drastically. What’s the point when ETH is still going to stick to the same set up that has been shit through out the season
 
el3mel said:
Using injuries as an excuse for yesterday doesn't make sense then.
Click to expand...
Never conflate facts with excuses. Its a stone cold hard reality a United missing 10 players cannot make an impact vs a full strength Bayern Munich, making a point to their own fans. Especially a United in THIS form. All this talk of "they weren't brothered" is laughable. Especially since they lost to a freaking Frankfurt 5-1 on Saturday and were determined to not look that inept again.
 
Shocking how much of a free fall his management and tactics have taken. When he came in and for the first 8-9 months I reckoned you had a half sensible manager at last. Now he just looks completely shell shocked half the time. The club's like a vortex of mediocrity at the moment, sucking in all around them.

Needs a total overhaul, starting with the manager and board.
 
Ten Hopeless must go. There’s no excuse for keeping him now, we’re completely out of Europe and highly unlikely to finish top 4 (or even 5).
 
JagUTD said:
Amrabat is a terrible DM. McTominay would be better in that role and he's not a DM.

Mainoo with McTominay is better than Amrabat and Mainoo.

Amrabat offers nothing at all.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting how often McT was deployed there in the pastand was absolutely hopeless at it.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Never conflate facts with excuses. Its a stone cold hard reality a United missing 10 players cannot make an impact vs a full strength Bayern Munich, making a point to their own fans. Especially a United in THIS form. All this talk of "they weren't brothered" is laughable. Especially since they lost to a freaking Frankfurt 5-1 on Saturday and were determined to not look that inept again.
Click to expand...
Some sensible points in here.

While we looked like shite, Bayern was far from convincing. They had 3 shots on target to our 1. They way some people drone on here is you'd think they had 20 shots on target today and we are extremely lucky to have avoided a battering.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Never conflate facts with excuses. Its a stone cold hard reality a United missing 10 players cannot make an impact vs a full strength Bayern Munich, making a point to their own fans. Especially a United in THIS form. All this talk of "they weren't brothered" is laughable. Especially since they lost to a freaking Frankfurt 5-1 on Saturday and were determined to not look that inept again.
Click to expand...

Even if we had won 6-0 last night, we would have still crashed out form the group. It was mostly a dead rubber game. The issue was when we lost to Galatasaray and Copenhagen, and these were inexcusable even with injuries comparing squads on paper and that we were leading in both games.
 
You couldn’t have hand picked a better CL group if you tried and you lost a knockout spot to Copenhagen and Europa league place to Galatassaray. Him coming out and not even acknowledging this failure and saying he has no regrets plainly means that he’s going to double down on whatever bullshit he’s on. Specialist in failure.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Never conflate facts with excuses. Its a stone cold hard reality a United missing 10 players cannot make an impact vs a full strength Bayern Munich, making a point to their own fans. Especially a United in THIS form. All this talk of "they weren't brothered" is laughable. Especially since they lost to a freaking Frankfurt 5-1 on Saturday and were determined to not look that inept again.
Click to expand...

So your saying an out of form Bayern kept us comfortably at bay at old trafford on a complete dead rubber for them, when we had to win to have any chance of progressing. We never even made a good chance all game not one. That's 180 minutes of football iv just spent my hard earned money to go to, and we never even created a proper chance in either of the games.

In terms of injuries which player who is injured walks into the side last night? Martinez, after that I'm not sure any of the other injured players are guaranteed to start, Casemerio has been poor this season as has Mount and Rashford Eriksen has been ok but is a bit part player.

Martinez would of made us slightly better maybe, the other players would of maybe had an impact of the bench. But really we are clutching at straws using the injuries as an excuse for the horrors of this season so far.

Its as bad as I can remember seeing us post SAF, it really is it's on a par with The Moyes era, arguably worse. We were miles better under Ole even with the wheels falling off and a disjointed squad we always created chances and always looked like scoring under Ole. Now we don't create chances at all and still can't defend any better.

No more excuses he has to go, his ideas, philosophy, coaching and talent ID simply isn't good enough. The players may still be playing for him but he simply isn't up to the task.
 
The excuses are pathetic, no one is asking him to win the league, just asking him to make us a solid functioning team, and he has failed to even do that.

Get him out. It is not just the players who need to earn their place at the club, the manager has to as well. And it has been very clear that the shit brainless football has been by design.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
The worst manager we've had post-SAF considering his management this season. He's the worst of every manager post-SAF and even worse than that. It's appalling how bad we are. We've never spent more money backing a manager and never been this bad. It's abject management.

The general cluelessness of Moyes, but even Moyes made it out of a CL group stage. Moyes had heavy home defeats, but they were to City/Liverpool. This manager gets destroyed by Newcastle's 2nd XI, Brighton and Bournemouth at Old Trafford. Moyes also didn't lose more games than he won by December.

Shit on a stick attacking football in the league like Van Gaal, but our current pace has us scoring less goals than Van Gaal's 2015-2016 season. We scored less last season than Van Gaal's debut season. Van Gaal also didn't have a player like Rashford who banged 30 goals in all competition last season. A completely inability to carve out chances like Van Gaal's 2nd season, but even worse this season. We're like 10th in most metrics for xG and chance creation.

The contradictions of Mourinho. He talks about upholding standards constantly, but doesn't uphold the standards himself. He's suffered more embarrassing defeats than any manager post-SAF, but goes on and on about standards needing to be hit. Made up some nonsense about why Varane can't play LCB over Evans, and then Evans plays RCB today while Varane is the LCB.

Ole-like with how dysfunctional and individualistic the team's shape is. We play a 3-1-6 build-up despite numerous evidence that it doesn't work for us and there's simply zero adaptability from him to make changes to turn us into a drilled unit. The worst of Ole, but he's been backed even more than Ole has. And despite the flaws of Ole, we could score plenty of goals. We're incapable of scoring goals with ETH.

There is simply no defense for how bad his management has been this season. We ship goals galore in our home defeats. 7 home defeats already. We've a negative GD in the league and UCL. 18 league goals in 16 games. -3 GD in the league. More losses than wins in all competitions. The charisma of a rock. Zero wins away from home vs any half-decent team.

Conman and anyone defending this manager is a giant WUM. Support the club 1st instead of supporting a manager who's not built up anywhere near the goodwill matching the excuses people make for him.
Click to expand...

Agree with this post. There’s so many negatives to post yet for some bizarre reason, some posters still think he’s the man for the job and blame everything but the manager. Every semi decent team away is like playing prime Barcelona. Every single team seems to play better than United, even in the games United win. 50% losses this season already for fecks sake :lol:
 
Abhinav said:
Whomever is still defending him, ask yourself these 2 questions.
1) Whenever we are facing a top 6 opposition, do you realistically feel that we have a chance to win against them?
2) Whenever we are facing a lower placed team, do you feel there is a reasonable chance we could draw or lose?
If you are honest, answer to first question would be no and the second would be yes. And after 18 months, that is just not good enough.
Click to expand...

His cultists seem to have convinced themselves we have one of the worst squads in the league that is moreover hit by historical and unprecedented number of injuries, so it’s actually mid table and lower placed teams that should be favorites against us and no manager in the world could do better than The Disciplinarian. Plus they will always have the famous Chelsea win to lean back on.
 
ArmaDino said:
Some sensible points in here.

While we looked like shite, Bayern was far from convincing. They had 3 shots on target to our 1. They way some people drone on here is you'd think they had 20 shots on target today and we are extremely lucky to have avoided a battering.
Click to expand...
I’ve never seen a team come to Old Trafford, look this unbothered and still win a game very comfortably. I know it’s Bayern and they have loads of quality but they didn’t even step out of first gear yesterday, it was a meaningless game for them and it was so apparent in their performance, yet somehow we could not create a single goal scoring opportunity throughout 90 minutes.
 
Again - he is not flexible, can't change gameplan, not nearly brave enough, inconsistent in his "strictness".

Players look dead tired and slow.

I reckon ETH will do a great job in Germany or Italy, but England is too difficult for him and he is too old to learn new tricks.

The players are shit but this summer he got everything wrong.
 
Sarni said:
I’ve never seen a team come to Old Trafford, look this unbothered and still win a game very comfortably. I know it’s Bayern and they have loads of quality but they didn’t even step out of first gear yesterday, it was a meaningless game for them and it was so apparent in their performance, yet somehow we could not create a single goal scoring opportunity throughout 90 minutes.
Click to expand...
Nah, Bayern are just not that good.

People were saying that we are going to get destroyed in both legs, yet in the first one if it wasn't for an Onana masterclass we could have gotten a result in Germany.

This home leg I think the players were resigned that we're not going through so we didn't even bother turning up.

Bayern on the other hand were completely demolished at the weekend in their own league so they had to "bounce back", only to put up that type of a performance against a dejected oponent. We made them far better than they trully were. Simple as
 
Toshey said:
Again - he is not flexible, can't change gameplan, not nearly brave enough, inconsistent in his "strictness".

Players look dead tired and slow.

I reckon ETH will do a great job in Germany or Italy, but England is too difficult for him and he is too old to learn new tricks.

The players are shit but this summer he got everything wrong.
Click to expand...

Nope
 
Two things that really concern me about ETH:

The first concern is that he publically said this was a solid performance. Did we even create one chance all game? We were schooled in midfield by a Bayern team that not only just lost 5-1 but also had nothing to play for. They were playing in 3rd gear, and still we were outmatched. If ETH thinks this is a good performance, we are in serious trouble. Not only was it a disgrace and cowardly performance, it was also anything but entertaining. Look at how Tottenham plays - intensity and attacking intent; sure, they concede a few goals because of it, but it's at least entertaining. We were atrocious yesterday. Absolutely shambolic. He gains nothing trying to claim this was a solid performance.

The second concern is his management in matches. Say what you want about Solskjær, but he was able to change the team going into second halves quite often. We hardly ever see this with ETH's team. They are lacklustre, and yet he hardly ever makes no substitutions before 70mins unless forced to by injuries.
 
Been thinking about his signings.

The problem as I see is that he's brought in these players, but with the exception of maybe Martinez and Casemiro last year they haven't really been any better or significantly better than the players he chose to replace.

You expect to see improvements on the pitch when you replace players and overall that just hasn't been the case.
 
1 shot on target in a must win game. And Erik thinks it was a good performance.

For a man that constantly talks about setting the standards, he doesn’t half do a great job of constantly lowering them when he needs to defend the job he’s doing.
 
Big concern for me is his failure to understand the need for physicality in key areas.

Look at Bayern last night...Upemecano and Kim absolutely dominated Hojlund and all over the pitch Bayern looked stronger and faster.

Even the player widely regarded as his best signing, Martinez, is slow and very small for a CB
 
If a manager keeps saying how bad it is that he is missing his best players and that is why they play bad, then he is also saying the other players aren’t good enough. As a manager that is strange to say I think because everybody knows you need your whole squad during a season and the players that have to come in should have the confidence that they will do well, and not that the manager thinks they are not good enough. It is just bad management he keeps saying this.
 
Rossa said:
Two things that really concern me about ETH:

The first concern is that he publically said this was a solid performance. Did we even create one chance all game? We were schooled in midfield by a Bayern team that not only just lost 5-1 but also had nothing to play for. They were playing in 3rd gear, and still we were outmatched. If ETH thinks this is a good performance, we are in serious trouble. Not only was it a disgrace and cowardly performance, it was also anything but entertaining. Look at how Tottenham plays - intensity and attacking intent; sure, they concede a few goals because of it, but it's at least entertaining. We were atrocious yesterday. Absolutely shambolic. He gains nothing trying to claim this was a solid performance.

The second concern is his management in matches. Say what you want about Solskjær, but he was able to change the team going into second halves quite often. We hardly ever see this with ETH's team. They are lacklustre, and yet he hardly ever makes no substitutions before 70mins unless forced to by injuries.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. It's been a worry for some time. He quoted recent Everton and Galatasary performances as the standards to work towards... Everton had 26 shots, and Galatasary scored three and could have had a few more. It's almost surreal. I have accepted that ETH is now managing his own demise, protecting his 'ETH' brand. He knows he has lost that squad, he cannot inspire, coach or guide them and they aren't listening anyway. You can see it. ETH is too bullish and self-indulged. His, his team are playing terrible football, consistently.

This is an interesting article. I think ETH and his brother are taking the p*** out of the club. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/ins...ng-reasons-man-united-bad-premier-league-2023
 
Jeffthered said:
Absolutely. It's been a worry for some time. He quoted recent Everton and Galatasary performances as the standards to work towards... Everton had 26 shots, and Galatasary scored three and could have had a few more. It's almost surreal. I have accepted that ETH is now managing his own demise, protecting his 'ETH' brand. He knows he has lost that squad, he cannot inspire, coach or guide them and they aren't listening anyway. You can see it. ETH is too bullish and self-indulged. His, his team are playing terrible football, consistently.

This is an interesting article. I think ETH and his brother are taking the p*** out of the club. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/ins...ng-reasons-man-united-bad-premier-league-2023
Click to expand...
I am afraid he has lost it. We were toothless, one shot on target. The commentators mentioned several times how fluent and coherent Bayern were and how we were not. Manager has been in place for 18 months, what is he trying to do? Any ideas? These comments are really disturbing, just another reason why he will be gone soon.
 
I see mainly three reasons for our underperforming.

Reason number one is the constant injuries. Espescially Martinez, Shaw and Malacia being out for so long has hurt us.

Secondly we have had to rely on a number of players who's not of the required quality: Onana, Dalot, AWB, Lindelöf, Evensen, Reguilon, Amrabat, McTominay, Anthony, (Garnacho, Höjlund). The last two are talented enough, but are not ready for the roles they have played this season.

The third reason is underperforming players: Varane, Casemiro, Eriksen, Fernandes, Rashford, Martial, Sancho. These players should be at the peak of their careers, and should be talented enough to be key players for us, but have been unavailable, low performing or shown no effort/proffesionalism.

How much of this can be attributed to our manager?
1. He might have pushed the team too hard in pre-season, causing injuries.
2. He has signed a lot of duds. Anthony doesn't have enough quality, and Mount is the wrong player for his role.
3. His set up demands high work rate from the forward, which do not favour his three most talented attackers, Rashford, Martial, Sancho.
4. His set up in midfield requires too much from the DM, espescially when Casemiro has become as immobile as he is now.

If we continue with ETH, he can't continue being in charge of transfers. But if someone can identify higher quality forwards, that fits his high pressing style, find a playmaking B2B midfielder, (which Mount and McTominay aren't), then I can see his style working better.
 
Castia said:
We should be playing a double pivot, where in the hell is he seeing that this side/his setup can accommodate 2 number 10’s? We can’t put 2 passes together and look as threatening as a fecking wet teabag going forward
Click to expand...
Wet teabags can be seriously threatening if the scenario is right. You can step on it, someone can hit you in the eye with a wet one and it sticks like cow shit on a wall.

Don't underestimate teabags.
 
4 points out of 6 games in a group with Gala and Copenhagen is incredible and should get you ran out of town
 
I've just watched his press conference after the game, and once again, he's repeating the same statements. It's like listening to a broken record:

- I think that, for the better part of the game, we've played well. but..
- We've had our chances, but
- We should learn from our mistakes...
- We know this isn't good enough and we just to have continue working

And the outcome is always he same... He won't survive until the end of the season
 
Since hiring him a lot of other teams with supposedly worse squads have hired managers who are supposedly worse. Those teams did not spend hundreds of millions on players that the respective manager needs to succeed and still they play arguably better football - at least to a visual inspection. That massively counts against him. BUT those teams are either below us in the table or not as far out of reach as this forum suggests. So is it the fault of the manager?

I have to admit I enjoy watching Antony a million times more than Rashford currently. I am happy that we ousted the fraud that is Sancho. We need to get rid of the deadwood that Greenwood has amassed under his leadership and that - in combination with playing attractive and successful - seems to be a hard task to ask from a manager alone-
 
Chicharo said:
I've just watched his press conference after the game, and once again, he's repeating the same statements. It's like listening to a broken record:

- I think that, for the better part of the game, we've played well. but..
- We've had our chances, but
- We should learn from our mistakes...
- We know this isn't good enough and we just to have continue working

And the outcome is always he same... He won't survive until the end of the season
Click to expand...
What else do you expect him to say, it's been widely communicated that we are trying to ship out some players who aren't justifying their wages and want to revamp the squad. We haven't had clarity regarding the Ineos deal and outcome from it, if and who will change in the club's hierarchy, and we don't know how much we can afford to spend shortly if all - on top of all that, he needs to make sure he keeps the players as on high spirits as possible and try to adjust the team to get out results.

On top of it all, you have the media and everyone and a cat is saying that he is awful and can't do shit. And all the players are rubbish.

Tell me, what he should come out to the media and say about that scenario?
 
The regression this season has been scary. Yes he's had injuries to deal with but he's shown too much stubbornness in his set up and has continued to play players that are out of form. How Bruno has continued to get the minutes he's had is beyond a joke, captain or not captain. It's a shame as I was really excited to have ETH here and yes the toxicity goes well beyond the playing squad, but his inability to try something different is going to cost him his job
 
Status
Not open for further replies.