Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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ETH's game is based on high tempo and high work rate. That's a problem in a squad made up of either lazy players or players who joined us because they thought that we are Real Madrid's retirement house. Now he added players of his own, some of whom were a success (ex Martinez and Eriksen) and some did not. That's understandable considering that he's a manager not a DOF + the success rate of signings isn't very high. Unfortunately most players who can play his system are injured.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have a share of mistakes. The Amrabat, McT and Bruno trio is diabolical. Yet let's put things into perspective here.
 
We had a gap of 6 weeks between games for the World Cup.

We also skipped the October and November International breaks, which generally total about 4 weeks, so we only actually had a net gap of about 2 weeks to accommodate the world cup.

You're also still talking about performances over results.

The fact is that we had six months of good form. Beginning with a victory over Liverpool on 22nd August, and ending with us getting battered by them on 5th March.

Performances might have dipped after the WC, but the form was still good.

We clearly just see it differently here. I don’t believe it makes sense to separate performances and results. If the performances are bad, the form can’t be good, in my view.
 
ETH's game is based on high tempo and high work rate. That's a problem in a squad made up of either lazy players or players who joined us because they thought that we are Real Madrid's retirement house. Now he added players of his own, some of whom were a success (ex Martinez and Eriksen) and some did not. That's understandable considering that he's a manager not a DOF + the success rate of signings isn't very high. Unfortunately most players who can play his system are injured.

That doesn't mean he doesn't have a share of mistakes. The Amrabat, McT and Bruno trio is diabolical. Yet let's put things into perspective here.

He can't even get his players to play any tempo high work rate game to see out 2 goal leads.

Putting things into perspective would be acknowledging that the frequent 3 (or more) goal hammerings can't be blamed on the players not being able to execute his super awesome invincible style that would have the managers of the football world cowering in fear.

In the PL ETH is just about good enough for a Villa or Spurs. That's it. These teams together a decent run and everyone is pleasantly surprised and lavishes praise. That's what he had at Ajax with that one CL run. Should've stuck to his level.
 
He can't even get his players to play any tempo high work rate game to see out 2 goal leads.

Putting things into perspective would be acknowledging that the frequent 3 (or more) goal hammerings can't be blamed on the players not being able to execute his super awesome invincible style that would have the managers of the football world cowering in fear.

In the PL ETH is just about good enough for a Villa or Spurs. That's it. These teams together a decent run and everyone is pleasantly surprised and lavishes praise. That's what he had at Ajax with that one CL run. Should've stuck to his level.

Yes, and with Ajax he also played some really shit league games between great CL games but won them because the Dutch league has some real poor teams. So playing bad or rotating players didn’t matter then. Now he has to perform three games a week and keeps complaining how hard it is for the players. But Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Newcastle, Brighton are all playing three games per week as well.
 
Ole? Seriously? The guy who delegated discipline regarding lateness to Matic?
I don’t like Ole as the manager. I just want to rid of these rats so bad. You hope that he would grow a spine and kick out them lot because my biggest concern is hiring a new manager and giving these players a clean slate. AGAIN. I’m sick of it. Absolutely sick to the core.
 
How do I not believe he's a fraud when he picks the least effective formation, then plays our players out of position and picks the worst performing players somehow all at the same time

His signings are shit too majorly
 
He can't even get his players to play any tempo high work rate game to see out 2 goal leads.

Putting things into perspective would be acknowledging that the frequent 3 (or more) goal hammerings can't be blamed on the players not being able to execute his super awesome invincible style that would have the managers of the football world cowering in fear.

In the PL ETH is just about good enough for a Villa or Spurs. That's it. These teams together a decent run and everyone is pleasantly surprised and lavishes praise. That's what he had at Ajax with that one CL run. Should've stuck to his level.

Eth is a system manager. If something goes wrong then the whole system is under pressure. If 2-3 things go badly then it collapses. We currently lack ball playing CBs + eriksen which means that we are losing the ball easily. Casemiro is out so we lack top quality grafters to win it back. Then the likes of Rashy are jogging on the pitch while sancho and Varane want out.

I am not defending eth. I think we should have learnt from the Rangnick saga that this sort of football while attractive needs loads of time and ££££ to implement. Quite frankly I think we are better off if we replace ETH with a more versatile manager such as ancelotti. However let's not put all the blame on the manager. Especially considering circumstances
 
I would rehire Ole at this point as an interim just to get rid of these bastards in our team. He knows who are the rats and I would like him to cleanse off the club from them.

If Ole knows who the rats are, it means they were around when he was manager. And he didn't get rid of them back then.
 
I don’t like Ole as the manager. I just want to rid of these rats so bad. You hope that he would grow a spine and kick out them lot because my biggest concern is hiring a new manager and giving these players a clean slate. AGAIN. I’m sick of it. Absolutely sick to the core.

What did ole do? He didn't do day to day training, our discipline was abysmal and our tactics were basic. When crap hit fan he fecked on holiday. Yet you expect him to do the job without Carrick/mckenna who turned out to be better managers then him and matic who kept the discipline. No wonder why he is still unemployed
 
Eth is a system manager. If something goes wrong then the whole system is under pressure. If 2-3 things go badly then it collapses. We currently lack ball playing CBs + eriksen which means that we are losing the ball easily. Casemiro is out so we lack top quality grafters to win it back. Then the likes of Rashy are jogging on the pitch while sancho and Varane want out.

I am not defending eth. I think we should have learnt from the Rangnick saga that this sort of football while attractive needs loads of time and ££££ to implement. Quite frankly I think we are better off if we replace ETH with a more versatile manager such as ancelotti. However let's not put all the blame on the manager. Especially considering circumstances
Seems to me like the problem is ETH is one-system-manager. So he's been pushing for this system even though the only way it works is with Martinez on world class form (even then I don't think it works but Licha is clearly the key). And now with so many players unavailable, he either still pushes for his "system" (and we end up playing McTominay as second striker) or just reverts to hoofball.
He is not a good coach.
 
Eth is a system manager. If something goes wrong then the whole system is under pressure. If 2-3 things go badly then it collapses. We currently lack ball playing CBs + eriksen which means that we are losing the ball easily. Casemiro is out so we lack top quality grafters to win it back. Then the likes of Rashy are jogging on the pitch while sancho and Varane want out.

I am not defending eth. I think we should have learnt from the Rangnick saga that this sort of football while attractive needs loads of time and ££££ to implement. Quite frankly I think we are better off if we replace ETH with a more versatile manager such as ancelotti. However let's not put all the blame on the manager. Especially considering circumstances

I don't know, man. Just seems like a roundabout way of saying "average by PL standards".
 
Seems to me like the problem is ETH is one-system-manager. So he's been pushing for this system even though the only way it works is with Martinez on world class form (even then I don't think it works but Licha is clearly the key). And now with so many players unavailable, he either still pushes for his "system" (and we end up playing McTominay as second striker) or just reverts to hoofball.
He is not a good coach.

Bingo. We've seen that with rangnick yet we went for the same type of manager. There Is nothing wrong with a one system manager. Saf was like that up until he earned the experience (and brought the men) to change. Yet you need to provide them with ample time and loads of £££££££ for them to succeed
 
Scariest thing to me is how we've just held 0-3 at home to Bournemouth and it seems almost normalised. These are all under this guy:

0-3 Bournemouth
0-3 Newcastle
0-3 Manchester City
1-3 Brighton
3-1 Arsenal
3-0 Sevilla
7-0 Liverpool
3-1 Villa
6-3 Manchester City
4-0 Brentford

Manchester United, you know.
I was annoyed with the result yesterday but no longer shocked or angry. We are used to being humiliated these days.
 
I don't disagree with any of that, but if you searched some variation of "hire a qualified manager" you'll see a set of posters who seem convinced that the only issue at the club is that we've hired the wrong manager, five times on the bounce.

Do you really think anybody here, however much blame they put on the manager, think recruitment or ownership/hierarchy, or the players are blameless?

Recruitment is the most obvious one. Not had a good full season from an RB since Valencia in 2016-18, and before that Rafael 11 seasons ago. There's been a gaping hole at RW, in theory since AdM left, in practice since Fergie retired. CM recruitment has been a shambles for over a decade and that area a massive problem in Ferguson's last two seasons. In some cases, like RW, the club and successive managers have simply refused to fill the gap and relied on players out of position, until finally spending a ton of money on a dud. At RB the hiring has been short-sighted and just poor, and at CM there's been insane amounts of money spent to buy square pegs for round holes...again and again and again.
The only positions that were held at a high standard for more than a season by the same player are LW, LB, AM, CB, one of two CM positions, and GK. Season-to-season chaos at the other CM, RB, RW, and ST.


But it is also true that, last season, EtH had a sensible formula which more-or-less catered to the player's strengths and covered their weaknesses. Casemiro and Eriksen are old, so both stay back and cover each other, with Fred coming in for extra energy if needed. Bruno likes spamming through balls so Rashford keeps making runs in behind. Shaw takes the overlap. Antony doesn't have much attacking edge but balances the flank with work rate, allowing Dalot forward. Varane and Martinez complement each other very well, and together cover everything you would want from a CB duo. Marital has occasional glimpses of form between injuries and does a decent job holding the ball and combining with Rashford. With a few obvious upgrades (a younger passer to replace Eriksen, a better RB, striker), that's a good and balanced team.

ETH, of his own volition, has ripped up the script. Casemiro is old and slow? Too bad! Lone DM is what he must be. Eriksen and Mount are injured? The great McTominay will play as one of two number 10s. Varane is relatively fast and allows a high line which makes sense with the way that "midfield" is set up? No, Maguire and a deep block is the way forward, and yes, it's 5 attackers in a 4-1-4-1 and a CB most comfortable in deep back line, that makes sense! A teenager who gets outmuscled by a breeze is at RW? The RB will make suicidal overlapping runs and leave a crater-sized hole at the back.
It's nonsense. There's no clear first XI. There's an insane plan of brainless attacking that must be obeyed. More contempt for possession than Mourinho. There are obvious and massive form issues (Rashford, Casemiro, Varane, Martial) but the pre-season was bad, the start of the season was very rough, everything since has been awful, yet the plan is constant.

The only comparison I can make with the other managers is Jose's last season. A blueprint that worked decently in the previous season ripped apart, feuds with half the squad, inexplicable lineups, square pegs in round holes, and stubbornness.

If the manager is making decisions that look sane but don't get results, I think most fans will be more tolerant. But if there's stubbornness about insanity, at least for me, that's a red flag.
I think Moyes mostly picked the XIs I would have picked. But clearly something had broken.
LvG's insistence on Rooney at 10 was awful, but the rest of the team usually made sense, all the way to the end. He had by far the best exit of any of these.
Jose went out benching the half of the squad that could actually play football, subbing them on, sometimes with good results (Newcastle and Juve), but picking another fight and repeating it for the next game. Bitter dour end.
Ole picked mostly sensible teams with the impossible constraint of having to fit Ronaldo and Bruno in a squad without a good DM or CBs.
Genuinely no memory of Ralf.
 
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Eth is a system manager. If something goes wrong then the whole system is under pressure. If 2-3 things go badly then it collapses. We currently lack ball playing CBs + eriksen which means that we are losing the ball easily. Casemiro is out so we lack top quality grafters to win it back. Then the likes of Rashy are jogging on the pitch while sancho and Varane want out.

I am not defending eth. I think we should have learnt from the Rangnick saga that this sort of football while attractive needs loads of time and ££££ to implement. Quite frankly I think we are better off if we replace ETH with a more versatile manager such as ancelotti. However let's not put all the blame on the manager. Especially considering circumstances
What do you mean by a system manager? Why don’t other ‘system’ managers such as Klopp, Pep, Arteta, Emery, Howe not face the same issue? Klopp has had whole backline and midfield out for majority of the season yet his teams have never looked as porous as ours. They have lost games, but not been thumped on a consistent basis by any decent team as this current team.
It seems to me that the manager has not got the right system and has not been able to coach the players to adapt this system. Any system which is so vulnerable and relies on all players playing well 100% of the time cannot be a good sustainable system.
 
If somebody told me he was a secret Liverpool fanatic sent to sabotauge us I would believe them. He keeps doing the wrong thing while trying to keep a straight face and convince us how we’re doing great and it’s all coming together. And as others have said he should be sued for the players he brought in, he set us back for another 5 years with that alone.
 
I’m surprised so many fans and journalists are parroting ETH’s spin about us being inconsistent. Have you watched us this season? We’re not inconsistent. Our attacking football is dependably disjointed and unimaginative, and defensively we’re always too open and vulnerable. The performances this season have been consistently poor, we just ride our luck and grind out wins sometimes. Chelsea was pretty much the first fully good league performance of the season, and even then our defence was very dodgy.
 
Do you really think anybody here, however much blame they put on the manager, think recruitment or ownership/hierarchy, or the players are blameless?

Recruitment is the most obvious one. Not had a good full season from an RB since Valencia in 2016-18, and before that Rafael 11 seasons ago. There's been a gaping hole at RW, in theory since AdM left, in practice since Fergie retired. CM recruitment has been a shambles for over a decade and that area a massive problem in Ferguson's last two seasons. In some cases, like RW, the club and successive managers have simply refused to fill the gap and relied on players out of position, until finally spending a ton of money on a dud. At RB the hiring has been short-sighted and just poor, and at CM there's been insane amounts of money spent to buy square pegs for round holes...again and again and again.
The only positions that were held at a high standard for more than a season by the same player are LW, LB, AM, CB, one of two CM positions, and GK. Season-to-season chaos at the other CM, RB, RW, and ST.


But it is also true that, last season, EtH had a sensible formula which more-or-less catered to the player's strengths and covered their weaknesses. Casemiro and Eriksen are old, so both stay back and cover each other, with Fred coming in for extra energy if needed. Bruno likes spamming through balls so Rashford keeps making runs in behind. Shaw takes the overlap. Antony doesn't have much attacking edge but balances the flank with work rate, allowing Dalot forward. Varane and Martinez complement each other very well, and together cover everything you would want from a CB duo. Marital has occasional glimpses of form between injuries and does a decent job holding the ball and combining with Rashford. With a few obvious upgrades (a younger passer to replace Eriksen, a better RB, striker), that's a good and balanced team.

ETH, of his own volition, has ripped up the script. Casemiro is old and slow? Too bad! Lone DM is what he must be. Eriksen and Mount are injured? The great McTominay will play as one of two number 10s. Varane is relatively fast and allows a high line which makes sense with the way that "midfield" is set up? No, Maguire and a deep block is the way forward, and yes, it's 5 attackers in a 4-1-4-1 and a CB most comfortable in deep back line, that makes sense! A teenager who gets outmuscled by a breeze is at RW? The RB will make suicidal overlapping runs and leave a crater-sized hole at the back.
It's nonsense. There's no clear first XI. There's an insane plan of brainless attacking that must be obeyed. More contempt for possession than Mourinho. There are obvious and massive form issues (Rashford, Casemiro, Varane, Martial) but the pre-season was bad, the start of the season was very rough, everything since has been awful, yet the plan is constant.

The only comparison I can make with the other managers is Jose's last season. A blueprint that worked decently in the previous season ripped apart, feuds with half the squad, inexplicable lineups, square pegs in round holes, and stubbornness.

If the manager is making decisions that look sane but don't get results, I think most fans will be more tolerant. But if there's stubbornness about insanity, at least for me, that's a red flag.
I think Moyes mostly picked the XIs I would have picked. But clearly something had broken.
LvG's insistence on Rooney at 10 was awful, but the rest of the team usually made sense, all the way to the end. He had by far the best exit of any of these.
Jose went out benching the half of the squad that could actually play football, subbing them on, sometimes with good results (Newcastle and Juve), but picking another fight and repeating it for the next game. Bitter dour end.
Ole picked mostly sensible teams with the impossible constraint of having to fit Ronaldo and Bruno in a squad without a good DM or CBs.
Genuinely no memory of Ralf.

There have been plenty in this thread that have argued the manager should have full control of recruitment, and so any recruitment related issues are entirely his fault. Similarly, they've argued that any player, no matter how obviously not good enough or unsuited they are, should simply be coached by the manager into being good enough.

They're nonsense arguments and have been rife among a vocal set of posters for literal months.

The rest is just a tactical analysis that I don't disagree with, and an indictment of our terrible recruitment, that I also don't disagree with.
 
Bingo. We've seen that with rangnick yet we went for the same type of manager. There Is nothing wrong with a one system manager. Saf was like that up until he earned the experience (and brought the men) to change. Yet you need to provide them with ample time and loads of £££££££ for them to succeed
Probably would've been easier if he was trying to implement a system that could actually work.
 
We're fundamentally flawed and he's not going to turn it around. As much as I want to see the back of a lot of this squad, it won't happen before Ten Hag. It's only a matter of time till he's gone now.
 
What do you mean by a system manager? Why don’t other ‘system’ managers such as Klopp, Pep, Arteta, Emery, Howe not face the same issue? Klopp has had whole backline and midfield out for majority of the season yet his teams have never looked as porous as ours. They have lost games, but not been thumped on a consistent basis by any decent team as this current team.
It seems to me that the manager has not got the right system and has not been able to coach the players to adapt this system. Any system which is so vulnerable and relies on all players playing well 100% of the time cannot be a good sustainable system.

Many reasons

A- United fitness is shit and had been so since SAF left

B- our squad is lazy. The reason to that is very complicated but not manager related

C- we switched from one system to a completely opposite system. Yet we expected the same players to just fit in

I can't care less if ETH survives or not and quite frankly i think he is a dead man walking. However replacing the manager with another on its own won't do the trick. The issue is way bigger then this
 
Probably would've been easier if he was trying to implement a system that could actually work.

His system works but with the right players. We should have gone to Ancelotti ie a manager who is used to make due with what he has
 
There are so many problems at the club that sacking manager will not suddenly turn us around. However the manager is always the fall guy because it’s easier to sack him than the entire squad of useless players.

There are too many players that aren’t good enough to play for us. Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay and Martial all players under Ole, all but Maguire were here under Mourinho. They are still playing regularly for us 5 years later. How is this even possible?

The list of expensive signings which haven’t worked out is shocking. The manager has fallen out with Varane and Sancho. Given the state of our performances is there any wonder those two can’t understand how they’re not starting?

Recruitment is our biggest problem but why delay sacking the manager? Results aren’t good enough and we need a fresh start for this squad of players. Get Varane and Sancho back in, we can’t afford to push better players out of the squad whilst Maguire and Martial start every week.
 
So you think it's ETH negotiating those fees? As for your list of failures, Mount has been injured and could yet be a good player for us and Hojlund will be a star for us, I'm sure.
They would still be flops irrespective of fees paid. Eth may not be negotiating the fee but he sure as heck can ask for alternatives instead of being hell bent on them, or you think the club are stupid enough to spend extra when Eth tells them to go after other targets.

But I realize you have your Eth blinkers on, so no point discussing this with you.
 
Many reasons

A- United fitness is shit and had been so since SAF left

B- our squad is lazy. The reason to that is very complicated but not manager related

C- we switched from one system to a completely opposite system. Yet we expected the same players to just fit in

I can't care less if ETH survives or not and quite frankly i think he is a dead man walking. However replacing the manager with another on its own won't do the trick. The issue is way bigger then this

All 3 points are manager related.
 
Eth is a system manager. If something goes wrong then the whole system is under pressure. If 2-3 things go badly then it collapses. We currently lack ball playing CBs + eriksen which means that we are losing the ball easily. Casemiro is out so we lack top quality grafters to win it back. Then the likes of Rashy are jogging on the pitch while sancho and Varane want out.

I am not defending eth. I think we should have learnt from the Rangnick saga that this sort of football while attractive needs loads of time and ££££ to implement. Quite frankly I think we are better off if we replace ETH with a more versatile manager such as ancelotti. However let's not put all the blame on the manager. Especially considering circumstances
I think the amount of money Ten Hag has wasted would have been enough to build a good side that can play any style, he just wasted it. What would you think the Aussie guy at Spurs would have them doing if he had been backed to the tune of £200m, Eddie Howe is already making strides with Newcastle.

There are no two ways about it, Ten Hag has failed here and he's only made it worse in season 2 by signing players that can't even realistically be called an improvement on those they are replacing. Onana doesn't get a game if DDG is still here, Mount is not capable of the role he was brought in for and Hoijlund is still a kid with nothing more than pace and a big frame so far whilst Amrabat is a nonentity.

Where the club has failed itself was in not drawing a hardline in the sand with regard to costs associated with each signing. We should have walked away from the Antony deal the moment the fees demanded went beyond what Barca paid for Raphinha. And walked away from Mount the moment they demanded anything past 40m. The 50m saved could be added to the 72m spent on Hoijlund to bring in an Osimhen who is ready to deliver.
 
What do you mean by a system manager? Why don’t other ‘system’ managers such as Klopp, Pep, Arteta, Emery, Howe not face the same issue? Klopp has had whole backline and midfield out for majority of the season yet his teams have never looked as porous as ours. They have lost games, but not been thumped on a consistent basis by any decent team as this current team.
It seems to me that the manager has not got the right system and has not been able to coach the players to adapt this system. Any system which is so vulnerable and relies on all players playing well 100% of the time cannot be a good sustainable system.

Klopp's teams have historically imploded with injuries.

They've certainly not had any real injury issues this season, so I can only assume you're talking about those historical runs.

Last season they shipped 3 in consecutive games to Brighton and Arsenal, shipped 3 in consecutive games again to Brentford and Brighton, and then a game later to Wolves, got tonked 4-1 by City, and even shipped 4 against Southampton. The Arsenal and Southampton games were draws, but they lost the rest. They also got beat 4-1 by Napoli and 5-2 by Madrid.

A couple of seasons back they lost 7-2 to Villa, then later on lost 4-1 to City, 3-1 to Leicester and 2-0 to Everton in consecutive games.

In Klopp's second full season, they lost 5-0 to City, 4-1 to Spurs, shipped 3 in another draw with Arsenal, let in 3 losing to West Brom, 3 in a draw with Sevilla, and 4 in their second leg against Roma.

In his first full season they let in 4 losing to Bournemouth, 3 losing to Swansea, 3 losing to Leicester, and lost 2-0 to both Burnley and Hull.

The season he joined, they lost 3-0 to Watford, had his first 3-3 draw with Arsenal, let in 3 losing to Southampton and lost 3-1 to Swansea.

Even in Arsenal's title chasing form last season, they got beat 3-1 by us, 3-1 then 4-1 by City, 3-0 by Brighton, and shipped 3 in a draw with Southampton. Season before lost 5-0 to City, 4-0 to Liverpool, 3-2 to us, 3-0 to Palace, and 3-0 to Spurs. Season before that lost 3-1 to Liverpool, 3-0 to Villa, drew 3-3 with West Ham then lost 3-0 to Liverpool the game after, and lost 4-1 to City in the EFL Cup

Howe has literally just been battered 3-0 by Everton, was very lucky to only concede 2 against Bournemouth, and lost 3-1 to Brighton earlier in the season.

We're clearly far too open, but there's no need to pretend that other "system" managers haven't also been prone to shipping a ton of goals.
 
Seems to me like the problem is ETH is one-system-manager. So he's been pushing for this system even though the only way it works is with Martinez on world class form (even then I don't think it works but Licha is clearly the key). And now with so many players unavailable, he either still pushes for his "system" (and we end up playing McTominay as second striker) or just reverts to hoofball.
He is not a good coach.
And he is also naive by not factoring how his players' physical and technical limitations can get the team easily battered by anyone half serious.

First half of the season we weren't playing this ridiculous one man midfield, it began when we lost Eriksen and brought in Sabitzer then Casemiro began to struggle with ground coverage demanded of him.

This is a league that can ruthlessly punish any weakness, we saw that last season when Liverpool's midfield collapsed on them. We deliberately set up with a midfield where one man, either a kid, an average journeyman or a great past his best, is supposed to contest for the ball against two or three players.

If he doesn't have the CBs for that system he has to abandon it an revisit after he has brought in players with the right profiles for that system. That said, I can't see him lasting past West Ham.
 
His system works but with the right players. We should have gone to Ancelotti ie a manager who is used to make due with what he has
I have huge doubts that he would've made it work in EPL with any players. There will be games that it works, but overall this approach is too risky and will always concede chances.

He's trying to implement a system that you go for in last 30min of the game if you're one goal down, but you should ever start with this setup by default.
 
Our style of play was totally different in those formations. We were more direct up until the Leicester match, then slightly more possession based with that 4-3-3. Didn't know WHAT he was trying to with the 3 at the back that constantly put us under the cosh. The 4231 was possession for possession's sake and we failed to create chances.
Our style of play was more open and direct in the beginning then after Leicester it became about possession and conservative passing.
 
Keep him until the end of the season, then let him go regardless of how he does this season where he finishes. He is clear that we will never win a league title under him.
He’s not an elite level manager, he’s not a bad manager he’s not at elite level, which is what we should be aiming to be.

For the people saying that injuries and the reason why he can’t play a style play, it’s not an excuse. Many teams have injuries and they still play the same way they may not have the same quality, but they have a clear style of play. We don’t have a style of play because our manager hasn’t been able to implement it.
 
I want to give him time and I completely understand the view of “what’s the point when the rest is rotten” or “here we go again” etc BUT his signings have been very poor in the main - I can only point to Martinez and maybe Hojlund as players who I go “yep they are quality/will be quality” - the rest have been borderline disasterous. Then I look at some of his team selections and facepalm.

He’s certainly not THE problem but he’s definitely a contributing factor
 
I have huge doubts that he would've made it work in EPL with any players. There will be games that it works, but overall this approach is too risky and will always concede chances.

He's trying to implement a system that you go for in last 30min of the game if you're one goal down, but you should ever start with this setup by default.

And it’s not like we even create chances thanks to this “system”. We scored 18 goals ffs. He must be the most stubborn manager in the world, and we’ve seen LVG upclose.
 
I admire your optimism but I don’t trust the manager and coaches to get the best out of any group we do assemble in the future. I also don’t think we can turn Bruno and Rashford into title winners and play this new system. It’s going to take years to turn this around. We need to build a midfield that can win the battle and run the show. We need players who can create and finish chances at the highest level. The game gets way easier when you control the play. We never do under ETH this season and that’s a deal breaker for me.
Again, I sympathise. The football is terrible half the time. We definitely need better players. The idea is that we play this new system and replace the guys who don’t take to it.

It’s a huge job and I’m not really optimistic because I don’t think we’ll get close to where we need to be before EtH gets sacked. I simply can’t see this club becoming competitive again under any manager. We can get top 4 some years but we’ll never challenge the top clubs. Ever.
 
Again, I sympathise. The football is terrible half the time. We definitely need better players. The idea is that we play this new system and replace the guys who don’t take to it.

It’s a huge job and I’m not really optimistic because I don’t think we’ll get close to where we need to be before EtH gets sacked. I simply can’t see this club becoming competitive again under any manager. We can get top 4 some years but we’ll never challenge the top clubs. Ever.
And this is my exact concern. I'm not arguing that Ten Hag probably has to go, but I don't see that that's going to achieve anything while we're still lumbered by incompetence above them. I believe the manager is irrelevant until there's a long term plan in place above them. If the long term plan is to find another fergie and let them run the club for the next 30 years then fair enough, at least that's a plan, but the sad truth is that that person likely doesn't exist and if they do it's going to take years for them to set up.
 
He needs to very quickly realise that the McTominay experiment is fecking madness.

That shit should be reserved for the last ten minutes of games when we desperately need a goal, not Plan A.

There are very few other options with Casemiro and Eriksen out, but Mainoo and Amrabat has to be the default until they’re back. Or if we’re really desperate go three at the back, playing with a giant empty gulf in midfield is suicide.

Also he needs to drop Onana, he’s fecking useless.

All clubs make bad signings but if we’re gonna compete at the very top we need to recognise this early and move on.
 
There are so many problems at the club that sacking manager will not suddenly turn us around. However the manager is always the fall guy because it’s easier to sack him than the entire squad of useless players.

There are too many players that aren’t good enough to play for us. Dalot, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay and Martial all players under Ole, all but Maguire were here under Mourinho. They are still playing regularly for us 5 years later. How is this even possible?

The list of expensive signings which haven’t worked out is shocking. The manager has fallen out with Varane and Sancho. Given the state of our performances is there any wonder those two can’t understand how they’re not starting?

Recruitment is our biggest problem but why delay sacking the manager? Results aren’t good enough and we need a fresh start for this squad of players. Get Varane and Sancho back in, we can’t afford to push better players out of the squad whilst Maguire and Martial start every week.
What Sancho has done to suggest is a better player?
Two years in Manchester
 
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