We have a very unhappy, uninspired camp. Manager falling out with a number of senior players isn't helping.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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We have a very unhappy, uninspired camp. Manager falling out with a number of senior players isn't helping.
This feels like it could go exactly like Mourinho at Anfield in Dec 2018 if he's not careful
Haven't seen the post match interview, was it the usual deluded eh we played well the performance was good eh, the progress is there eh
I think the issue with United is we actually seem to think we've done a lot with managers to get back where we want to be. I think we've take the easy and nice route and have actually suffered as a result. Our managers over the last ten years haven't been special. People here come here with the " who else can we hire?" questions, but we haven't even been ruthless. We've given each manager an average of two years to get things going despite the consistent failures. In that same period, Chelsea have hired more permanent managers despite having 2 league titles and a champions league. In that time frame, we haven't at any point looked like we can score enough goals to actually challenge. We've had massive leaks at the back. We've barely had control of games. And whilst teams like Arsenal and Spurs, even in years when not winning could point to large periods of good football where they could easily dispatch teams, we've struggled almost the whole way through. Wenger in his later years at Arsenal was still dominating most games. For a team who have struggled the way we have and fallen the way we have, we should have sacked much more managers than we should have. However, everyone comes with this concept of a long term project that will take time. This isn't 1986. United from 2013 to 2023 have had the finance, reputation and even player quality to play much better football than we have. I'm not talking about simply winning the league or other trophies. I mean, simply playing decent football in which chances are created. These managers have come and made it seem like they need 2011 Barcelona to play good football.
Has the club been poor, yes. However, my feeling is that the true failure of the club has been in the way they've supported our managers. Our managers have been the true source of our failures over the last ten years, and the club enabling their behaviours and activities has brought us to where we are today. Players get blamed for not having the space in midfield due to poor tacticis to find forward players. Forwards get blamed for not scoring despite not having good chances being created for them. Our best players like Bruno and Pogba are blamed for not managing to lift the whole team. Yet these managers have had the players they wanted come in. Players whom haven't allowed us to come up with a consistent and effective build up scheme, despite clubs of similar stature being able to do this with ease, over the last ten years. I've watched teams like Brighton, Newcastle, Spurs under Poch and now, play much better football with teams outsiders would consider inferior in terms of status, fees and wages. Has the club fumbled modernizing football operations? Yes. Yet it doesn't reduce the fact that these managers were granted power and opportunity other modern clubs haven't been able to do and have failed. No other club comes with a 3 year project to be good. They see what they have and progressively get better as quickly as they possible can. They give trust to managers who get them playing good football and support the manager with players to expantiate on an on pitch playing pattern that has already proven to be successful. Always seeking to improve, never rebuilding. It's not basketball, there is no draft that you would benefit from being worse and selling all your players.
There was one stage where Bruno, Martial and Garnacho were pressing high up near their box and Rashford was stood on the half way line. Look at Rashford not arsed tracking Livramento, Garnacho couldn't be bothered tracking Trippier. Schar ran through the middle all game because Martial couldn't be arsed to try and stop him.
The one man midfield and the gap between the pressing players and the back four means as soon as they beat the press they were straight at the defence. Their fullbacks had all the space they could want because the wingers wouldn't work back.
It's just a sheer lack of brains and effort. Too many low IQ players who don't want to have to work hard to win games.
It isn't even the fault of the midfielders really. For the full 90, I didn't see an attempt to play through the middle. When facing any pressure, we just played it back to Onana, who hoofed it forward hoping for a favourable drop in play to control possession, yet not even being set up to take advantage of that action, Forcing our players to rely on flicks to hold onto possession
Although he may have a deep understanding of football /maybe not/, we must remember that football is a game played by humans. It is a fact that individuals who are likable and possess natural charisma stand a better chance of managing a squad and people than those who are not. I'm not trying to say that ETH is a bad person, but unfortunately he doesn't seem to be very good at managing people but very bad.
The biggest mistake we've made is not bringing in Poch and instead decided to give Ole the full time gig. What an absolutely brain dead decision, that has lead us to right where we are now.
There was a point during the game tonight where the cameras focused on ETH and he was just sat there with his hands in his pockets looking clueless.
That really REALLY cheesed me off
If rumours of us being in contact with Ancelloti are true then we need to do everything we can to bring him here!
There was a point during the game tonight where the cameras focused on ETH and he was just sat there with his hands in his pockets looking clueless.
That really REALLY cheesed me off
If rumours of us being in contact with Ancelloti are true then we need to do everything we can to bring him here!
Depends on your definition of a DM. I wouldn't say Fred was playing as a DM for his last 18 months here, as it was very obvious that Rangnick then ETH had given him a role where he had more freedom and attacking influence than he'd had previously (when he was playing as a DM). However that didn't stop him providing a lot of help to the midfield. Same as Kante at Chelsea, where the only time they actually tried to play him as a true DM he wasn't very good but then instantly exploded back into form once they moved him back to his normal role. That role is more of a box-to-box harrier and destroyer, which I'd class as a central midfielder who generally plays in between a defensive and an attacking midfielder.
Either way, it is obviously much different than this tactic of Mount, McTominay and even Hannibal being used as a second attacking midfielder. In hindsight we would have been far better off keeping Fred and playing him there like we did last season. There's still hope that Mount (or Hannibal) might end up being better in that role than he was, but it's obvious that Scott won't be. Most likely we're relying on playing two of Mainoo, Casemiro or Amrabat and having one of them playing more box-to-box than what we've normally seen.
Surely it's obvious at this stage one of Ten Hag's biggest problem is he cannot manage big players.
Ronaldo, Casemiro and Varane are somehow deemed not good enough to start by him but McTominay,Martial and Johnny Evans are.
How did we hire a guy to manage this club when he is so unable to coach the top players?
Sancho was treated poorly like him or not and he simply doesn't know what to do with Rashford.
Ronaldo, Casemiro and Varane are somehow deemed not good enough to start by him but McTominay,Martial and Johnny Evans are.
How did we hire a guy to manage this club when he is so unable to coach the top players?
Sancho was treated poorly like him or not and he simply doesn't know what to do with Rashford.
Hannibal needs to play deeper. It’s insane to play him so high up just because he runs a lot.
Riiiight. So if Sancho is so lazy as you say, why did this manager not get rid in the summer when he had the chance? Why did he play him false 9 in pre-season, where Sancho played well and scored, before giving him two paltry sub appearances at left-wing come August? It doesn
But let us say that effort has been an issue for years. Yet he got better numbers as a teenager than Cristiano and Messi at the same age COMBINED. Any manager with a talent like that tries to be as accomodating as possible to a talent on that level. Instead the club has ended up assassinating his character and effectively burned bridges with him to back a failing manager that has lost the entire dressing room.
You can attack Sancho’s professionalism and character all you like. It doesn’t change the fact that Ten Hag brought this upon himself by airing out the dirty laundry in public which did nothing but write off our £72 million signing. What was the benefit from what Ten Hag did? Has it improved squad morale? No, it has seemingly worsened it. Has it improved his authority? No, signs of a mutiny are brewing and several players are visibly unhappy or they have checked out. All we achieved was to humiliate Sancho and turn the fans against him to the extent he has had to deactivate his instagram due to social media pile-ons. That’s not firm and fair management. That is bullying.
A manager that expects superstars to act like school children for him has no business managing a big club like United. Especially not a manager that has achieved as little as Ten Hag. Especially not a manager who has been responsible for us losing 7-0 at Anfield. Get a grip.
How Ten Hag has handled the Sancho situation is consistent with his other crazy decisions from the signings to the tactics.
Didn't see any cohesiveness or style of play. He is making his own bed with his team selections.
And manager appears to simply put up with it.
Casemiro? When he's fit, he plays.
Ronaldo and Sancho completely deserve their treatment. Both of them played poorly, were lazy on the pitch, then utterly threw their toys out of the pram after just a tiny bit of criticism. You better believe it wouldn't have been any better for them under the likes of Fergie, Klopp, Pep, etc.
Varane is the only one that there's a big question mark about.
This season has to be one of the worst performances by a manager of all time. Nothing he has done has come close to working and we've taken many, many steps backwards.
Poor signings, no system at all, all players under performing, bad substitutions, horrible tactics, out coached basically every game, falling out with players, he doesn't even help with poor officiating against us!
Out of all the post-Fergie seasons, this has got to be the absolute worst football with the most embarrassing performances week after week. I was all for signing ETH but he has absolutely no clue and needs to go.
Poor signings, no system at all, all players under performing, bad substitutions, horrible tactics, out coached basically every game, falling out with players, he doesn't even help with poor officiating against us!
Out of all the post-Fergie seasons, this has got to be the absolute worst football with the most embarrassing performances week after week. I was all for signing ETH but he has absolutely no clue and needs to go.
Honestly he's been very, very lucky to have us on the points total he does. We deserved to lose or drop points in many of the games we won. xG wise we should be on 17 points and 11th with a game more played than most around us. Newcastle meanwhile would be top! Makes sense when you see how wasteful they are in front of goal. Howe is doing great work there.
Outperforming your xG is usually a sign of player quality shining through (i.e. scoring when you shouldn't have managed to). If anything the players have been bailing ETH out to a certain extent.
Outperforming your xG is usually a sign of player quality shining through (i.e. scoring when you shouldn't have managed to). If anything the players have been bailing ETH out to a certain extent.
All Ten Hag said was that Sancho didn't train well in the lead up to that particular game. If Sancho can't handle that tiny amount if criticism then that's on him, not ETH.
Not quite though still didn't seem a particularly accurate reflection of the match. Said Newcastle played better, we had chances towards the end, mentioned offside goal, also Garnacho's early chance. Didn't want to speak about individuals. Difficult run of fixtures. Again referred to the progress we are making (can't see it myself). Defended Rashford in at least one interview - Marcus is investing a lot. We support him. He will return to his form. Explained the thinking behind using Shaw as a CB.
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Sancho just tweeted it wasn't true. If someone talks shit about you that isn't true you'd fire back.
I don't mind losing if I saw some style of play. There is nothing, absolutely nothing. He has given up on whatever his idea or philosophy was. The stupid idea he shares of how he was not hired to play like ajax, then what do you want to play like, previous failed united managers.
Mctominay scores 2 goals and he has become a regular when 3 months back he wanted him gone. This is all lvg jose ole again. Backing mediocre players and hoping things work.
Mctominay scores 2 goals and he has become a regular when 3 months back he wanted him gone. This is all lvg jose ole again. Backing mediocre players and hoping things work.
I think they are told to do it. He wants a lone CDM and the other two pushing up.
I can criticise McTominay for his positioning, but the reality is, he's played as a sitting CDM with Fred. So if he was asked to sit in, he would.
In reality, we don't really build up with an inverted full back either. So you'll often see a CDM stranded, the full backs not offering an option, and the other midfielders in attacking positions. It's a void in there. Which as you said, often results in Onana or a CB hoofing it up there as the only true outball is a lone CDM.
I'd love to see a Mainoo and Casemiro pairing to offer some solidity, with two midfielders in the build up and Bruno ahead. But regardless of personnel, EtH has made his mind up. He doesn't want two "defensive" players in there... And it'll cost him his job.
I'm inclined to believe the rumors that Ratcliffe and Co. are going to replace ETH at the end of the season.
ETH is determined to make the same mistakes over and over, daring the club to sack him.
Saying you didn't train well in the days before a game isn't talking shit about you.
And considering Sancho has a long history of his coaches and managers complaining about his training and unprofessional time-keeping, I know which one I would believe if I were to wonder whether it was true or not.
ETH certainly does want that, but I struggle to believe he wants the second midfielder to provide as little help as what McTominay actually does.
In saying that, the fact that he keeps picking McTominay in that position then means it's ultimately ETH's fault.
Yeah, thanks, I just watched it myself. Cant see any progress either.
I'm worried it'll go more like Ten Hag at Anfield in March 2023
I done. He needs to go.
Even a single DM is fine IF you coach the 4 defenders behind him to play high up the pitch and contract that space behind the 5 main pressing players. But nope, instead we get that dogshit deep backline with the fullbacks not offering support and a space so wide in midfield around the DM that not even prime fecking Kante could do anything about it. It's horrid coaching and tactics and this shithead insists on it.
Oh I'm probably drilling the bookies for Liverpool 3+ or 4+ goals no doubt. I'd be shocked if the game is competitive which after 400m just goes to show how fraudulent this guy is.
Yeah just as deluded as that Marcel on Utd view who is officially Utd's version of Ty from AFTV
Mount was doing the exact same thing that McTominay is doing now when he was starting. It's by design.
He needs to go NOW.
Pray tell what progress or process refinement are you seeing that we all are missing?
Yes Mount was, but again I thought (hoped?) that ETH ultimately wanted more than what he was providing. Wanting your second midfielder to get forward and help out the attack a lot is quite a bit different than wanting them to sacrifice the midfield completely.
Even if that was the plan, I had hoped that ETH would realise fairly quickly that it wasn't working and would modify it. As we did see for a couple of games when McTominay was staying a bit deeper alongside another midfielder, but we've now gone back to him just acting as an attacker.
Whatever ETH is trying to do obviously isn't working. If he actively wants what is happening, then it's idiotic. If he wants somebody who does get forward but does provide a better balance and helps out the midfield as well, that's more understandable but he hasn't had someone correctly doing that.
You can't fool me - I know what you are. Tell RAWK or Bluemoon - I'd be doing the same too
It’s hard to believe there’s any truth to the links with Ancelotti, but if there is a path to bringing in Ancelotti to sort out this dumpster fire in January we must seize the chance.
That would be such a stupid move bound to end up in another unmitigated disaster but would be par for course for this Club .
Thinking outside the box: Maybe he wants the sack, as if he resigns he wont get a pay off. The sides he picks, falling out with a lot of players, the football 'style', or lack of it. The deluded interviews to the media etc etc. All this and an Anfield walloping will just about get it him.
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