Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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The worst thing for me is that if he was sacked then you just know you’ll see a few of the players rediscover some form, get yet more chances, the fans will forget all their crap performances and blame EtH …and then the process will repeat all over again when things go wrong for the next manager.

we needed a manager and a process to get rid of the culture of bad attitudes and mediocrity that’s been around for years and it just hasn’t happened. EtH isn’t blameless at all, he’s signed a lot of dross, but there’s a lot of players in that dressing room the club simply had to get rid of and they didn’t . Ironically two of the long term survivors we did get rid of -Fred and DDG- were probably the best of a bad bunch.
 
gajender said:
That would be such a stupid move bound to end up in another unmitigated disaster but would be par for course for this Club .
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A reasonable concern, but in truth we can’t bring in an up and coming manager like an Eddie Howe circa 2021 to manage United. We’re too big a club to take a punt on an unproven manager. Ancelotti is no Jose who was and is a cynical manager. He wins trophies and puts on a decent show of it too. But no, he wouldn’t be here for a decade. At best, 3-4 season max.

But it’s not in the cards.
 
Oranges038 said:
There was one stage where Bruno, Martial and Garnacho were pressing high up near their box and Rashford was stood on the half way line. Look at Rashford not arsed tracking Livramento, Garnacho couldn't be bothered tracking Trippier. Schar ran through the middle all game because Martial couldn't be arsed to try and stop him.

The one man midfield and the gap between the pressing players and the back four means as soon as they beat the press they were straight at the defence. Their fullbacks had all the space they could want because the wingers wouldn't work back.


It's just a sheer lack of brains and effort. Too many low IQ players who don't want to have to work hard to win games.
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Then why did ETH not change Martial and Rashford at halftime? How can the continue on the pitch if their work rate is not good enough?
 
Delano said:
I think they are told to do it. He wants a lone CDM and the other two pushing up.

I can criticise McTominay for his positioning, but the reality is, he's played as a sitting CDM with Fred. So if he was asked to sit in, he would.

In reality, we don't really build up with an inverted full back either. So you'll often see a CDM stranded, the full backs not offering an option, and the other midfielders in attacking positions. It's a void in there. Which as you said, often results in Onana or a CB hoofing it up there as the only true outball is a lone CDM.

I'd love to see a Mainoo and Casemiro pairing to offer some solidity, with two midfielders in the build up and Bruno ahead. But regardless of personnel, EtH has made his mind up. He doesn't want two "defensive" players in there... And it'll cost him his job.
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It's not even two defensive players in there. It's just 2 midfielders, 2 central midfielders. Which club in the history of the game has played with a lone CM and the other 2 attacking midfielders 20 to 30 yards down the pitch closer to the attack than the DM? Lunacy
 
The Mitcher said:
He needs to go NOW.
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Well, if ETH keeps starting the same broken players, in the same broken squad, using the same broken tactics (if you can even call what we're doing actual tactics at this point) then he may very well run himself out of the club by the new year.

I'm not sure he can avoid the ax if Liverpool run us off the pitch again.
 
MadDogg said:
How strange that the one thing that we all were confident ETH would focus on improving (the midfield control) is looking increasingly like the thing that will get him sacked as he has actively decided to play in a way that ignores it. He's actually made our midfield worse.

Admittedly we have a lot of injuries at the moment, but this seems to have been his intention from the start of this season considering the signing of Mount and tactics in the first few games. Even with the injuries we could have had Amrabat and Mainoo together, played Scott deeper, or play Hannibal or even Gore in there instead (although once again, when Hannibal has played he's been playing very high). At the moment it looks like our entire hope is that Casemiro comes back soon and we hopefully start playing Casemiro and Mainoo together.

I want ETH to succeed and I do like some of the things that he's done, but this midfield 'tactic' is the thing that has me increasingly thinking he's a dead man walking.
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To me this is one of the weirdest things I have seen in my 22 years of watching soccer.

I realize I don't know anything about soccer but this set up he has us playing is mind boggling.
 
mav_9me said:
How can anyone support this type of coaching? Wtf is this nonsense?
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the nonexistent midfield, which has been plaguing this club for a long long time. ETH obviously didnt create the problem, but he's not making it better.
 
joedirt87 said:
the nonexistent midfield, which has been plaguing this club for a long long time. ETH obviously didnt create the problem, but he's not making it better.
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Forget making it better, he is making the midfield situation worse by creating new problems.
 
joedirt87 said:
the nonexistent midfield, which has been plaguing this club for a long long time. ETH obviously didnt create the problem, but he's not making it better.
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The Fred-McTominay combo that got so much criticism actually provided a more solid base for the rest of the team than whatever it is that ETH has been trying to do this season. It obviously had it's limitations, but it's sad that I'm looking back at that combo and remembering it fondly. Even sadder that we sold the much better one of the duo, kept the lesser one AND are playing him in a position that doesn't work. Fred's sheer work-rate might have made it work a little better.
 
Just jumped into this thread, couldn't help but notice the stark contrast between page 1 and page 1572.
 
lex talionis said:
A reasonable concern, but in truth we can’t bring in an up and coming manager like an Eddie Howe circa 2021 to manage United. We’re too big a club to take a punt on an unproven manager. Ancelotti is no Jose who was and is a cynical manager. He wins trophies and puts on a decent show of it too. But no, he wouldn’t be here for a decade. At best, 3-4 season max.

But it’s not in the cards.
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Ancelotti is a kind of manager whom you get when you are a team which just needs ticking over or are a team who have the talent but needs final push for the trophies .

He wont be winning anything major because we simply aren't good enough first and foremost United need an actual coach whose best work is done on training ground while we upgrade the personnel to young and hungry bunch , we thought we were getting one in Ten Hag but we got it wrong but it doesn't mean we should simply abandon that approach .
 
400M spent, and only 1 out of 11 starting XI last night (Onana) was bought by ETH, for the rest of the players, ALL of them joined the club in 2020 or prior.

Starting XI and the years they joined the club:
Martial - 2015
Garnacho - 2020
Bruno - 2020
Rashford - 2005
Mainoo - 2014
McTominay - 2002
Dalot - 2018
Shaw - 2013
Maguire - 2019
Awb - 2019

Very very shocking stat.
 
nimrod said:
Just jumped into this thread, couldn't help but notice the stark contrast between page 1 and page 1572.
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Don't think optimism when a new manager is appointed and disappointment and frustration when things don't pan out is anything out or the ordinary. Were you expecting people to remain optimistic and upbeat?
 
MadDogg said:
The Fred-McTominay combo that got so much criticism actually provided a more solid base for the rest of the team than whatever it is that ETH has been trying to do this season. It obviously had it's limitations, but it's sad that I'm looking back at that combo and remembering it fondly. Even sadder that we sold the much better one of the duo, kept the lesser one AND are playing him in a position that doesn't work. Fred's sheer work-rate might have made it work a little better.​
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Fred and Amrabat and Mainò wouod have been perfect.

then a front three of
Rashford Hojland
Bruno​
Should technically work but in reality
Garnacho Hojland
Bruno
Fred Amrabat Maino​
With a compact playing style would be a decent team. And then switch our Bruno for Mount if he’s not ticking
 
mav_9me said:
How can anyone support this type of coaching? Wtf is this nonsense?
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Read about what I wrote 2 months ago, about our main problem.

Exactly this. Not compressing the field is the main problem we have as a setup. I had written a very elaborate piece on why it happens, how it affects our play and how it manifest itself in our game play.

I even wrote what the solution is, as easy as playing a high line.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Because we have injuries. Once Martinez is back, all problems will be solved.
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Let’s be honest, Utd have not been playing well since Feb 2023. The honeymoon phase was long and stopped after the cup win. No style of play and work ethic, not least 80% of his signings are not top 4 premier league. Let’s not forget the 7-0 trumping by Liverpool and hasn’t won away to the top 6.
 
DownRiver said:
Let’s be honest, Utd have not been playing well since Feb 2023. The honeymoon phase was long and stopped after the cup win. No style of play and work ethic, not least 80% of his signings are not top 4 premier league. Let’s not forget the 7-0 trumping by Liverpool and hasn’t won away to the top 6.
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Martinez and Shaw were the answers. Shaw is back (but i will ignore the fact that nothing has changed). Eagerly waiting for Martinez to be back. His presence will get us the midfield control, our forwards will start linking up well and score goals. Onana will forget how to make howlers and there will beautiful patterns of play.

Watch the space.
 
I just don't get how any modern manager can't understand that one of the most important parts to success is having a well functioning midfield and doing jack shit to accomplish that
 
You can honestly make an argument he's done the most damage to the squad of any manager post-SAF. The amount of players he's signed that need to be replaced soon or are way too overpaid is astonishing.

His management this season has been the worst IMO from our managers post-SAF despite being backed to the hill like no manager before him. Any game vs a half-decent opponent, we get dominated. We've conceded the 3rd most shots in the Premier League! That is an appalling statistic.

If Rashford didn't bang his 30 goals last season, he would be without a job right now.

An absolute conman. We got sold a dream and got a dud of a manager.
 
dave2528 said:
I'm inclined to believe the rumors that Ratcliffe and Co. are going to replace ETH at the end of the season.
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Yeah could well see another December like 2015 under LVG,he survived until top 4 became mathematically impossible
 
kouroux said:
The naivety to keep starting McT is astonishing tbh.
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Guy was happy to sell him in the summer. Mctominay bailed him out with two late goals against Brentford - and he's tried to recreate that same experiment on a 90 minute scale ever since - and this is the guy with the plan and philosophy we're supposed to put our faith in :lol: Mctominay had 30 touches in 100 minutes.

Trust the process guys.
 
My take is not a technical or coaching point on ETH but more a modern style of man management. We have a group of fairly talented but ‘modern type’ footballers being managed by a strict disciplinarian. By ‘modern type,’ I mean we have a bunch of precious players who need carefully man managing to within an inch of their life to get the best out of them as a group. If you consistently treat them in a way they don’t care for, they’ll down tools and simply not do as you demand.

This bunch of players were made for SAF’s outstanding man management approach. Arm around when needed, personable, great fun at times but strict and focused when the time required to remind them who the boss was. I get the feeling ETH’s strict disciplinarian approach doesn’t wash with these modern type of players we have and the results filter down to performances on the pitch like last night. Rashford & Sancho being two prime examples of this.

Let’s look at our rivals. As much as I dislike all of them, you just get that strong feeling Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Howe and even Ange are great fun to be around as leaders of their teams but don’t take any crap when the time is right. Where’s the fun and personality with ETH? He just appears permanently straight faced lacking any charisma to inspire these players.

Of course you could say discipline is what these players need and they should “man up or get out”. But is that approach working? Well I don’t believe it is.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
I just don't get how any modern manager can't understand that one of the most important parts to success is having a well functioning midfield and doing jack shit to accomplish that
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I don't know what's more confounding: the fact that he hasn't made this his first priority to fix, or the fact that his PREVIOUS feckING TEAM played with a brilliant technical midfield that dominated games! Was that just pure luck that he got the formula right? It doesn't make sense. How can a manager look at the positioning of his side where an 18 year old is shielding one of the deepest back lines in the league on his own... while the rest of the fecking players press as high as possible up the pitch!
 
VivaRonaldo85 said:
My take is not a technical or coaching point on ETH but more a modern style of man management. We have a group of fairly talented but ‘modern type’ footballers being managed by a strict disciplinarian. By ‘modern type,’ I mean we have a bunch of precious players who need carefully man managing to within an inch of their life to get the best out of them as a group. If you consistently treat them in a way they don’t care for, they’ll down tools and simply not do as you demand.

This bunch of players were made for SAF’s outstanding man management approach. Arm around when needed, personable, great fun at times but strict and focused when the time required to remind them who the boss was. I get the feeling ETH’s strict disciplinarian approach doesn’t wash with these modern type of players we have and the results filter down to performances on the pitch like last night. Rashford & Sancho being two prime examples of this.

Let’s look at our rivals. As much as I dislike all of them, you just get that strong feeling Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Howe and even Ange are great fun to be around as leaders of their teams but don’t take any crap when the time is right. Where’s the fun and personality with ETH? He just appears permanently straight faced lacking any charisma to inspire these players.

Of course you could say discipline is what these players need and they should “man up or get out”. But is that approach working? Well I don’t believe it is.
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Of course not, and at a certain point I struggle to blame the players for being frustrated when you see someone like Rashford indulged like a child this season but apparently Varane is instantly left in the cold after being (rightfully) pissed at getting dropped for Johnny fecking Evans. Varane never falls out with anyone, he's famously supremely likeable and a good character in dressing rooms, yet now Ten Hag treats him as if he insulted his mother. It's a joke, and shows that he has zero feel for managing a big club with any sort of personalities in it. Just add it to the list of reasons why he should have been sacked fecking yesterday.
 
TsuWave said:
Guy was happy to sell him in the summer. Mctominay bailed him out with two late goals against Brentford - and he's tried to recreate that same experiment on a 90 minute scale ever since - and this is the guy with the plan and philosophy we're supposed to put our faith in :lol: Mctominay had 30 touches in 100 minutes.

Trust the process guys.
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People still don't want to sack him because "Who would we get?" gets brought up and they don't have an instant answer.

Quite frankly I'd be thrilled if SJR came in and pulled the Ragnick with open heart surgery on the club. Bin ETH, sell Rashford, Bruno, Maguire, McT, AWB, Lindelof, Sancho, Antony, and a few others and lets take our lumps fully rebuilding a team next year. I'm tired of these same faces that I've watched fail my club for 4/5/6 and even 8 or 9 years. None of them have accomplished almost anything of note besides a couple that are still here from the Europa league win, it's not like we should be clamoring to keep anyone. Honestly the only untouchables in the squad for me are Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Shaw. That's basically it. I'd be fine to see anyone else but those 4 feck off, and I'll happily take a true rebuild with a clear plan and direction with an all new squad.
 
ETH is looking more and more like a glorified hipster David Moyes. Away trips to the big opponents are a guaranteed loss.
 
Newcastle improved leaps and bounds in such short space of time and spent less than us. If Newcastle play like us under ETH, I think they would have already sacked him. We are not only outplayed by Newcastle but we were also outplayed especially in the midfield by Everton and Gala.

Is this our standard now? We were still being told that we need to trust the process and give ETH more time and money.
 
Seems 99% of the people have turned against ETH. Incredible that in 4 months everything has turned.

Alot of us said, if he fails to change the midfield setup he will be sacked because results will never materialize. True to it, it has happen.
 
Tap said:
ETH is looking more and more like a glorified hipster David Moyes. Away trips to the big opponents are a guaranteed loss.
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He's not even half the manager Moyes is. We have not won an away game against a top 8 side since he joined. Do you understand how crazy that is? After £400m spent?
 
He was brought in to specifically modernising our football style of play. We wanted a modern manager who can play with a relentless attacking system. We have been playing negative football under Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ole for a decade. We wanted real change and desperately want our club back to play attacking football.

He is clearly out of his depth and not the right manager to implement these changes. Our tactics are so outdated that even Everton and Gala dominated us in the midfield. We are now further away not only to City, Liverpool and Arsenal but also Spurs, Newcastle, Villa, Brighton in term of style of play.

Arnold, Murtough and ETH needs to go for any meaningful changes. For ETH, apart from the above points, his in game management and signings (Onana, Antony, Mount, Casemeiro, Amrabat, Weghorst, Sabitzer) are all sackable offences.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I don't know what's more confounding: the fact that he hasn't made this his first priority to fix, or the fact that his PREVIOUS feckING TEAM played with a brilliant technical midfield that dominated games! Was that just pure luck that he got the formula right? It doesn't make sense. How can a manager look at the positioning of his side where an 18 year old is shielding one of the deepest back lines in the league on his own... while the rest of the fecking players press as high as possible up the pitch!
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Last year he got Casemiro and Antony. This summer he got Mount and Amrabat. That's four midfielders already.

The problem is that ETH doesn't seem to have a solid plan. About anything.
 
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