Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Ayoba]

It’s Eriksen. That’s why he pulled you up aha.

I know

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Whoever thinks he is above criticism, as it should be.

manager keeps picking strongest players on paper in hope that they play themselves into form “he has his favourites and doesn’t have the courage to drop them”.

Manager challenges an under performing player who is equally under performing in training “he should have handled it better, the player has done nothing wrong and needs to be protected from criticism”.

Manager defends players playing poorly , he’s talking crap. Manager suggests some players not working hard enough, manager undermining team confidence.

If I was a manager, i would just answer every question with “that would be an ecumenical matter” type of vanilla answers, especially when my team is struggling.

There is absolutely nothing ETH can say at the moment that won’t be twisted to make him look wrong. What he says only matters when the team is under performing, so he’s better off saying f**k all.

 

[tjb]

Who are they?

These are the players he's brought in. 5 or 6 players isn't a teams worth of starting players.

Potential Starters
Onana
Martinez
Casemiro
Mount
Hojlund
Antony

Frees
Evans
Eriksen

Backups
Malacia
Bayindir

Loans
Amrabat
Reguilon
Weghorst
Sabitzer
Dubravka
Butland

A lot people understand that this squad is unbalanced and for the most part lacking a lot of depth, quality and a lot more besides. It was before he came in and it still will be if he gets sacked. Not addressing the midfield area properly has been a huge let down for him as it would for most mamagers. But Ole ignored it too and so did Jose for the most part. Look where it got them.

We're looking at most of a team that wasn't good enough 3 or 4 years ago. This is how most of them have always been performing, patchy, fallling asleep at crucial moments, struggling to break teams down and general struggling against any kind of physical opposition.

Why would anyone think they'd be performing any differently now? Nothing will change unless there is a total overhaul of the squad, doesn't matter who is in charge these players for the most part aren't good enough.

A free transfer is still a transfer, as is a loan. I don't know why you're seperating them, fact is, those players are supposed to play. Malacia is a backup, we could have signed a right back which was again a managerial decision. Most teams have players in their squads that weren't successful in various iterations. No team decides to completely sell that many players. Sure they weren't good enough to start regularly for United, but it doesn't always mean they should not be at the club. There will never be a total squad overhaul, no team has those.

Now when we talk about who isn't good enough that's expected to start for us, here's the list of our main starters:
Onana, AWB, Varane, Licha, Shaw, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Antony, Rashford and Hojlund. Outside of Antony, who should we be overhauling here. Varane? Casemiro? Are those the crap players? Or is generalizing and saying the whole team is rubbish another chance to absolve the manager. I'm not saying we can't improve the squad. We easily can. But this notion that the players we have are incapable of playing good football and and are just bad is a poor argument when you actually look at who is starting. If it's depth we are talking about, in terms of the likes of Maguire, Mount, Lindelof, Malacia, Garnacho, Martial etc, I look at Spurs, Arsenal and even Liverpool and I don't see their depth players being better. It's an easy cop out. Blame a whole squad when the team is generally not playing well and talk about an overhaul. Yet somehow Varane struggles to build up play and understand instructions, but Lewis Dunk at Brighton is an expert. We saw this with Moyes, we did an overhaul also after Moyes, no team does an overhaul. This isn't City in 2009.

Do people really think De Zerbi or other managers who have been able to play decent football without the type of budgets United generally enjoy have a whole squad of players they want? Do people the Ange loves having every single spurs player available to him? of course not. It would be great to have a structure to protect the club. My feeling is that, it would be there to protect us from the managers. Enough with this saviour syndrome. I can't imagine Ancelotti going to the press conference at Real Madrid talking about not having the right squad. Or Varane not being able to play on the left side of defence. Or injuries being the reason why Madrid lost back to back games to Celta Vigo and Alaves and are 10th in La Liga, more than 10 points off the top. Teams have sacked managers for not winning Champions Leagues. We're here discussing structures, injuries and recruitment. The truth is, teams the size of United don't rebuild. They don't have 3 year plans. They have the money to immediately fix problems and do so relatively quickly. Brighton might have a 3 year plan because they don't have the money and the pull to bring in new players or don't already have some players with that quality at their squad. We do. If you can't play good football spending 400m in a climate where Inter and Napoli can scrimp and still play good enough football to make the UCL final and dominate games, then you have to look in the mirror.

 

[Blood Mage]

Our 60m priority summer signing on the bench again. ETH isn't living this down.

 

[hobbers]

Antony, Mount, Amrabat all benched reflects so, so badly on him.

Shows we're in the desperation stages as well.

This is the sort of fixture you'd normally give a chance to people like Antony and Mount to build their confidence

 

[el3mel]

You stating that people are looking for excuses doesn't make it true.

The reality is that we've been terribly run for at least a decade, and in all likelihood longer, it was just Fergie's brilliance masking it.

It is possible for ETH to be underperforming and for the lack of structure at the club to be a major contributing factor to that underformance. However, given we're now on our fifth underperformimg manager (sixth if you include Rangnick), it seems quite clear that the problems go beyond individual managers.

It's.

Yeah, the problem is continuously hiring underperforming managers.

 

[Alex99]

It's.

Yeah, the problem is continuously hiring underperforming managers.

Constantly hiring underperforming managers is a symptom of having no structure in place.

 

[el3mel]

Some might say that’s kind of ironic considering some of you can only see replacing the manager as the solution.

Incidentally , I haven’t read anybody say “ETH is 100% faultless”. The issue is you interpret a differing view completely wrong.

“There are structural issues at United for a decade and we are not giving our managers/players the best chance to harness a culture of success” is not the same as “The manager is not responsible for anything”.

When you are blaming every single other person in the club bar the manager, to the point of blaming the board for the manager's terrible transfers, you don't actually need to tell us directly that you think he's faultless. You are alreading doing everything to prove it.

 

[Thom Merrilin]

He recently said himself in an interview that the players aren’t technically capable of playing the Ajax way.

The Utd way is fast, attacking football with wingers who will go past their man and put in a cross for the central striker. Not the goalkeeper passing the ball to a central defender, who walks a few yards then passes it to the other central defender, who walks a few yards then passes it back to him, then he passes it back to the goalkeeper. But this is the only football Ten Hag knows.

Yeah I know he said that and also said he wants us to be the best transition team in the league, that's why I said similar to Ajax not the same.

I challenge you to find a successful modern side that doesn't play fast attacking football with wingers that take on their man. That's just how football is played but there are different ways to get there. We scored two different but great goals against Copenhagen which shows that Eth knows more than telling his CBs to pass back and forth.

 

[Oranges038]

A free transfer is still a transfer, as is a loan. I don't know why you're seperating them, fact is, those players are supposed to play. Malacia is a backup, we could have signed a right back which was again a managerial decision. Most teams have players in their squads that weren't successful in various iterations. No team decides to completely sell that many players. Sure they weren't good enough to start regularly for United, but it doesn't always mean they should not be at the club. There will never be a total squad overhaul, no team has those.

Now when we talk about who isn't good enough that's expected to start for us, here's the list of our main starters:
Onana, AWB, Varane, Licha, Shaw, Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno, Antony, Rashford and Hojlund. Outside of Antony, who should we be overhauling here. Varane? Casemiro? Are those the crap players? Or is generalizing and saying the whole team is rubbish another chance to absolve the manager. I'm not saying we can't improve the squad. We easily can. But this notion that the players we have are incapable of playing good football and and are just bad is a poor argument when you actually look at who is starting. If it's depth we are talking about, in terms of the likes of Maguire, Mount, Lindelof, Malacia, Garnacho, Martial etc, I look at Spurs, Arsenal and even Liverpool and I don't see their depth players being better. It's an easy cop out. Blame a whole squad when the team is generally not playing well and talk about an overhaul. Yet somehow Varane struggles to build up play and understand instructions, but Lewis Dunk at Brighton is an expert. We saw this with Moyes, we did an overhaul also after Moyes, no team does an overhaul. This isn't City in 2009.

Nobody is above replacing.

Of those you've named.

Eriksen, Varane, Casemiro all too old, need to be replaced within a year. AWB not good enough, never was. Antony, I might try and get a more attacking right back to support him to see if he can improve. If not he'd be benched and gone. And I definitely wouldn't rule out upgrading Shaw or Rashford either.

As for the backups, players who were first team a couple of years ago and are still hanging around like a bad smell Lindelof, Maguire, Martial, McT etc etc.. they'd all be for the chop.

This process will take another 3 years to complete. I don't think anyone who comes in over the next couple of years will fair any better with this squad. Whole lot needs a root and branch clear out.

 

[el3mel]

Constantly hiring underperforming managers is a symptom of having no structure in place.

That we agree on. Hopefully when we get this magnificent football structure, they stop hiring terrible managers like Ten Hag.

 

[MattofManchester]

they stop hiring terrible managers like Ten Hag.

I hate myself for asking, because indulging you seems like smashing your head into the wall and being baffled when blood comes out,

But, who pray tell, are these amazing managers you want us to hire?

 

[Alex99]

That we agree on. Hopefully when we get this magnificent football structure, they stop hiring terrible managers like Ten Hag.

We won't get a structure with the Glazers. This is the point that has been made now ad-nauseum, but that you're clearly too dense to understand.

You seem to believe that nothing else at the club has to change, we just need to keep sacking managers and hiring new ones, and eventually we'll find another Fergie.

 

[hobbers]

Brought in specifically to progress us from the Maguire +Lindelof, McFred spine.

Well, how is that going?

 

[AndySmith1990]

Brought in specifically to progress us from the Maguire +Lindelof, McFred spine.

Well, how is that going?

£400m isn't enough to find better replacements

 

[el3mel]

We won't get a structure with the Glazers. This is the point that has been made now ad-nauseum, but that you're clearly too dense to understand.

You seem to believe that nothing else at the club has to change, we just need to keep sacking managers and hiring new ones, and eventually we'll find another Fergie.

It's the opposite in fact. You are the ones who keep on dreaming of us getting another Ferguson by giving unnecessary time for any manager failing at the job, then praying he will turn out well just by enough time and blind faith.

Glazers aren't great but thinking we have to change the entire football structure just to play watchable football and become competitive again is just clutching at straws. United fans need a scapegoat and they have found the board to be perfect for that job.

 

[Jev]

Nobody is above replacing.

Of those you've named.

Eriksen, Varane, Casemiro all too old, need to be replaced within a year.

Remind me who signed two of those a year ago?

 

[Mibabalou]

If we lose today I think he should go

 

[Rightnr]

This guy literally cannot handle a single big personality of a non-shit player.

Needs to go.

 

[Alex99]

It's the opposite in fact. You are the ones who keep on dreaming of us getting another Ferguson by giving unnecessary time for any manager failing at the job, then praying he will turn out well just by enough time and blind faith.

Glazers aren't great but thinking we have to change the entire football structure just to play watchable football and become competitive again is just clutching at straws. United fans need a scapegoat and they have found the board to be perfect for that job.

There is no proper football structure to change the entirety of.

I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you.

I'm not saying give managers infinite time in hope they come good. I'm saying the lack of structure makes it a near certainty that any manager will fail.

How many managers do we need to go through for you to acknowledge the problem is not solely the managers?

 

[Oranges038]

Remind me who signed two of those a year ago?

I know who signed them.

Who signed the rest of the squad? Who keeps giving out big deals to lad who play well for a few weeks?

 

[el3mel]

There is no proper football structure to change the entirety of.

I don't know how many times this has to be explained to you.

I'm not saying give managers infinite time in hope they come good. I'm saying the lack of structure makes it a near certainty that any manager will fail.

How many managers do we need to go through for you to acknowledge the problem is not solely the managers?

No it doesn't.

As many as it takes. We only hired 5 managers in 11 years. That's not really a big number.

 

[Jev]

I know who signed them.

Who signed the rest of the squad? Who keeps giving out big deals to lad who play well for a few weeks?

Do you think a manager should sign an entire squad before we can judge him?

 

[Shark]

No it doesn't.

As many as it takes. We only hired 5 managers in 11 years. That's not really a big number.

Who do you reckon can come in and do better currently than Mourinho who had just won a title with Chelsea, and LVG who although past his best was a quality manager at the time. Moyes and Ole were obviously big mistakes and ETH was one of the most highly rated up and coming managers around. Who's next?

 

[Oranges038]

Do you think a manager should sign an entire squad before we can judge him?

I think there are some mitigating factors for ETH. Mostly that his style didn't suit the group of players he inherited, he tried to change it and to a large extent it worked. But now he's back to players he desperately tried to get rid of and replace.

I do however, think there needs to be a proper structure in place to ensure that shouldn't be the case.

 

[Alex99]

No it doesn't.

As many as it takes. We only hired 5 managers in 11 years. That's not really a big number.

As many as it takes? So you don't think at any point we have to look at anything at the club beyond the manager?

We just keep hiring and firing in blind hope it's always been the manager and ignore everything else?

Five in 11 years (six if you include Rangnick), soon to be six/seven in 11 years if we sack Ten Hag, is a silly number of managers.

 

[Jev]

I think there are some mitigating factors for ETH. Mostly that his style didn't suit the group of players he inherited, he tried to change it and to a large extent it worked. But now he's back to players he desperately tried to get rid of and replace.

I do however, think there needs to be a proper structure in place to ensure that shouldn't be the case.

At the moment he's choosing to play them. Varane is on the bench today, as are his own midfield signings.

 

[el3mel]

Who do you reckon can come in and do better currently than Mourinho who had just won a title with Chelsea, and LVG who although past his best was a quality manager at the time. Moyes and Ole were obviously big mistakes and ETH was one of the most highly rated up and coming managers around. Who's next?

It doesn't work like that. Arteta, whom people are saying now he's the second coming of Messiah, on paper wasn't actually a better coach than Emery. Ange isn't a better coach on paper than Mourinho or Conte. These managers failed here for several reasons and most of these reasons is due to their own shortcoming. Giving them better structure wouldn't have resulted in different results.

 

[AndySmith1990]

I think there are some mitigating factors for ETH. Mostly that his style didn't suit the group of players he inherited, he tried to change it and to a large extent it worked. But now he's back to players he desperately tried to get rid of and replace.

I do however, think there needs to be a proper structure in place to ensure that shouldn't be the case.

This style thing not suiting the players is bollocks. They're Premier league level players. The feckers can be coached to whatever style is asked of them, if the coaching is good enough. Other managers do it at other clubs without replacing the entire team. It's just a lazy excuse that has been allowed to grow into fact amongst the United fanbase

 

[Shark]

It doesn't work like that. Arteta, whom people are saying now he's the second coming of Messiah, on paper wasn't actually a better coach than Emery. Ange isn't a better coach on paper than Mourinho or Conte. These managers failed here for several reasons and most of these reasons is due to their own shortcoming. Giving them better structure wouldn't have resulted in different results.

The jury is still out for me on Arteta, let's be honest he's achieved nothing yet. Ange has just lost to the worst Wolves side I've ever seen so not a great recent example either.

 

[crossy1686]

The jury is still out for me on Arteta, let's be honest he's achieved nothing yet. Ange has just lost to the worst Wolves side I've ever seen so not a great recent example either.

O'Neil is a very good coach though. He'll manage England one day.

 

[el3mel]

The jury is still out for me on Arteta, let's be honest he's achieved nothing yet. Ange has just lost to the worst Wolves side I've ever seen so not a great recent example either.

I'm giving examples for the managers whom people are using as an example for success now. People here couldn't stop talking about Arteta as an example of success given more time, could they?

 

[el3mel]

As many as it takes? So you don't think at any point we have to look at anything at the club beyond the manager?

We just keep hiring and firing in blind hope it's always been the manager and ignore everything else?

Five in 11 years (six if you include Rangnick), soon to be six/seven in 11 years if we sack Ten Hag, is a silly number of managers.

It's actually not. Bar Moyes, everyone of them got at least 2 full years. Changing managers every 2 to 3 years is pretty normal and nothing outrageous. We should have actually sacked and hired more managers in such period considering our results.

 

[AndySmith1990]

As many as it takes? So you don't think at any point we have to look at anything at the club beyond the manager?

We just keep hiring and firing in blind hope it's always been the manager and ignore everything else?

Five in 11 years (six if you include Rangnick), soon to be six/seven in 11 years if we sack Ten Hag, is a silly number of managers.

Chelsea, Real Madrid, and Barcelona have had more managers than us in the past decade. All three have won far more than we have. Do those three clubs have shit structures because they've gone through so many managers?

 

[Shark]

I'm giving examples for the managers whom people are using as an example for success now. People here couldn't stop talking about Arteta as an example of success given more time, could they?

They're not examples of success though, you have to achieve something to be an example of success, neither of those managers have done squat yet.

 

[el3mel]

They're not examples of success though, you have to achieve something to be an example of success, neither of those managers have done squat yet.

Tell that to people who are telling us to give Ten Hag time like what Arsenal did with Arteta.

 

[The Mitcher]

He shouldn't be deciding transfer targets. That's on the club's non-existent structure.

Stop saying thought terminating nonsense like this. Deal with the reality of what IS rather than what should be. The reality is that Ten Hag controls transfer policy, he should be criticised for his piss poor transfers. You can't do that because you've put all your eggs in the Ten Hag basket.

 

[Oranges038]

This style thing not suiting the players is bollocks. They're Premier league level players. The feckers can be coached to whatever style is asked of them, if the coaching is good enough. Other managers do it at other clubs without replacing the entire team. It's just a lazy excuse that has been allowed to grow into fact amongst the United fanbase

Grand, so Pep could come in and have this lot playing like peak Barca after a few weeks without having to change one player?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

It's actually not. Bar Moyes, everyone of them got at least 2 full years. Changing managers every 2 to 3 years is pretty normal and nothing outrageous. We should have actually sacked and hired more managers in such period considering our results.

Right. Moyes, LVG, and Ole would all have been sacked multiple times over at any other club. Possibly Mourinho as well, although I reckon he had more credit in the bank due to his reputation.

 

[Shark]

Tell that to people who are telling us to give Ten Hag time like what Arsenal did with Arteta.

In fairness though ETH won us our first trophy for a good while last season, and simultaneously got us back in the CL. It's not like he's achieved absolutely nothing so far, and people are just blindly affording him time like with Moyes and Ole. He's obviously not earned infinite time, but it's obvious there are mitigating factors to our collapse this season out of his control also.