Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Cheimoon said:
Yeah, that is odd, isn't it. I had expected Ten Hag to be more dogmatic stylistically, and accept the growing pains that come with it: some good games, some total trashings - but ultimately an upward trajectory. And I suppose you could say that was happening for the first half of last season. But since then, he seems to have thought that building a plan while flying it can also mean reverting to a different plane model for an extended spell along the way. Presumably that's all in order to avoid those trashings (but: Liverpool away) and get good results in the meantime (for which in turn you could point to the League Cup win, FA Cup final, and 3rd place league finish) - but United are now stylistically quite far off what you'd hope Ten Hag's end goal is like. (I.e., something proactive, energetic, and attacking; not the current style of play.)

So yeah, it's a little puzzling. But let's see what happens when Shaw and Martinez return.
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While this is certainly true and ETH has proven far more pragmatic than I expected there is also a bit of confirmation bias going on.

I keep seeing people say ‘the press isn’t working’ and then we see stats that show Utd have the highest turnovers in the league or something. So the press has been working but we’ve done nothing with it when turning it over.

Had we scored from the openings we make then have been able to see a more confident performance. Even when we have scored earlier in a game we’ve contrived to concede immediately after again nullifying the opportunity to take advantage of a team pushing onto us.
 
sparx99 said:
While this is certainly true and ETH has proven far more pragmatic than I expected there is also a bit of confirmation bias going on.

I keep seeing people say ‘the press isn’t working’ and then we see stats that show Utd have the highest turnovers in the league or something. So the press has been working but we’ve done nothing with it when turning it over.

Had we scored from the openings we make then have been able to see a more confident performance. Even when we have scored earlier in a game we’ve contrived to concede immediately after again nullifying the opportunity to take advantage of a team pushing onto us.
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However you want to play it - just keep him as manager until the end of December and your trip to the City Ground - please!
 
We’ll scrape through the group and then get a rude awakening in the first knockout game against a heavyweight. To be honest, we’re only playing for pride on all fronts this season. Although I’m somewhat optimistic we will have some joy in the league and perhaps finish in the top 5.
 
It’s quite silly discussing about SAF backing a manager. No one apart from the fans will publicly call for a manager to be sacked and there are people who especially wouldn’t do anything other than backing a manager - people like Gary Neville. SAF can’t do anything other than back any manager, his words carry such weight that if he says anything other than backing the manager, the fan base would be baying for blood.
 
lex talionis said:
The Antony signing was horrendous, but every manager botches a few acquisitions.

I'm sure this has been discussed extensively before but let's do a quick rundown with a grade for each:

Antony, a straight F. Others may give a D but for me it's a straight F of the highest order on par with the signing of Sanchez.
Martinez, a straight A. Sure, he's been out for a while with a broken foot bone but you can't pin that on the manager.
Malacia, a gentlemen's B. A decent backup for Shaw no one should have a problem with, but he's no United legend in the making.
Casemiro, an A-. Sure, he's been meh this season but he was outstanding last season that was only blighted by dubious red cards.

Onana, a B for me. I didn't support this signing as the keeper was the least of our problems but here he is and after a shaky start he's settled into the job.
Mount, a B for me. The rationale for this signing never made sense to me other than as a replacement for Bruno.
Hojlund, a B for me. One for the future and I do worry that we're putting too much pressure on him, but so far he's looked decent.

It seems like I'm missing someone but I just can't put my finger on who it may be. Of the 7 names above, the only one no one can deny has been a disaster has been Antony.
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I'd have Casemiro as a B and Mount as a C minus. Antony has been really disappointing
 
Desert Eagle said:
I'd have Casemiro as a B and Mount as a C minus. Antony has been really disappointing
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I can see Casemiro as a B, but not Mount as a C-. Mount has clearly not been great, but he’s not been poor. My concern with Mount is that we didn’t need him, not that he would be another McTominay. But the broader point that ETH’s transfer targets are questionable is reasonable.
 
lex talionis said:
I can see Casemiro as a B, but not Mount as a C-. Mount has clearly not been great, but he’s not been poor. My concern with Mount is that we didn’t need him, not that he would be another McTominay. But the broader point that ETH’s transfer targets are questionable is reasonable.
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I'm fine with rating the player Mount as grade B, but if you want to rate the transfer, than C- is much more fitting - as you said, you don't need him.
 
Amira said:
I have been very critical of ETH, his signings, his tactics everything. What we have seen on the pitch this season and some of last season has been dire. However, I do think we should give him some time. He is very stubborn and that could potentially be his downfall because he has a lot of learning to still do. If he keeps evolving, admits mistakes quickly and sticks to his standards in terms of discipline, I think he could do well here.
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Has ETH evolved during his time here? If so in what way
 
Laurencio said:
The guy we needed is playing in Germany :(
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Maybe, but I do feel if United had spent almost it's entire budget on Kane, than Kane would have to do far too much for this team and would crumble under the pressure.
 
stefan92 said:
Maybe, but I do feel if United had spent almost it's entire budget on Kane, than Kane would have to do far too much for this team and would crumble under the pressure.
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Entirely possible. We would have won more matches and had "something" to build on in January though. Right now we're basically short a striker, a couple of midfielders, a winger, a right back and half a defence. Would have been nice if Kane could have papered over the cracks a little.

Striker is arguably the most difficult position to fill, and now we don't have the money for someone elite, nor is someone elite really available.
 
stefan92 said:
Maybe, but I do feel if United had spent almost it's entire budget on Kane, than Kane would have to do far too much for this team and would crumble under the pressure.
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Maybe so, but any manager that worth his salt would have done much more with the resources we've had in place of ETH even with kane. The man is absolutely moyes 2.0 minus the charisma.
 
Do we reckon that his his job will be in serious jeopardy if we don't win tonight? Or do we need to be mathematically out of the CL?
 
Chip said:
Do we reckon that his his job will be in serious jeopardy if we don't win tonight? Or do we need to be mathematically out of the CL?
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Let me play advocatus diaboli here: Isn't it better for United to become 3rd and get a shot at winning the EL, than becoming 2nd and exit early in the CL knockouts? So, should it even be a problem if United doesn't get a win today?
 
stefan92 said:
Let me play advocatus diaboli here: Isn't it better for United to become 3rd and get a shot at winning the EL, than becoming 2nd and exit early in the CL knockouts? So, should it even be a problem if United doesn't get a win today?
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It's a fair point. We've got even less chance of being in the CL next season if we reach the knockouts instead of dropping into the Europa league for an extra chance (as slim as it would be).
 
Chip said:
Do we reckon that his his job will be in serious jeopardy if we don't win tonight? Or do we need to be mathematically out of the CL?
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I’d probably say he’s safe if we finish 3rd in the group stages as it’s another route into next seasons CL. But fail to get top 4 in the league and win Europa if we was to drop in it then he could be on the verge…
 
He's really doing himself no favours with these team selections, McTominay as a DM, the one midfielder we chased all summer on the bench for multiple matches in a row even though we arguably look better with him on the pitch, Varane dropped multiple games for semi-retired 1 year trial signing Jonny Evans, like I support this guy but he's making it extremely difficult to do so.

People are still banging on about Kane but what is Harry Kane going to do in a team like this, it's diabolical
 
If he doesn't win today, better start packing, even if he takes till the summer to leave
 
DJ_21 said:
I’d probably say he’s safe if we finish 3rd in the group stages as it’s another route into next seasons CL. But fail to get top 4 in the league and win Europa if we was to drop in it then he could be on the verge…
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At any other club that would be it. He'd be gone. Many clubs would have sacked him already.

To say he'd point be only "on the verge" in those circumstances shows you how serious we are as a club. But you are right. Murtough basically can't sack him as it'll look bad on him.
 
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
 
RedPed said:
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
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We don't know what the real situation is with Varane.
 
RedPed said:
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
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The manager was happy to cover for Sancho last season. Unless you’ve got some inside information, then your statement is baseless.
 
lex talionis said:
The Antony signing was horrendous, but every manager botches a few acquisitions.

I'm sure this has been discussed extensively before but let's do a quick rundown with a grade for each:

Antony, a straight F. Others may give a D but for me it's a straight F of the highest order on par with the signing of Sanchez.
Martinez, a straight A. Sure, he's been out for a while with a broken foot bone but you can't pin that on the manager.
Malacia, a gentlemen's B. A decent backup for Shaw no one should have a problem with, but he's no United legend in the making.
Casemiro, an A-. Sure, he's been meh this season but he was outstanding last season that was only blighted by dubious red cards.

Onana, a B for me. I didn't support this signing as the keeper was the least of our problems but here he is and after a shaky start he's settled into the job.
Mount, a B for me. The rationale for this signing never made sense to me other than as a replacement for Bruno.
Hojlund, a B for me. One for the future and I do worry that we're putting too much pressure on him, but so far he's looked decent.

It seems like I'm missing someone but I just can't put my finger on who it may be. Of the 7 names above, the only one no one can deny has been a disaster has been Antony.
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Having mount as a B is incredibly generous
 
Amrabat
Reguilon
Mount

Constantly benched after being injured. They are back now and have been for some time, so why aren’t they being put back in the 11?!?
 
RedPed said:
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
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how many assumptions can one fit into a single post :lol:
 
Interesting listening to Steve Bruce on Radio 5Live saying how important it was having strong leaders with the right character in the dressing room at OT. And how much work Sir Alex Ferguson put into getting the right characters.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Having mount as a B is incredibly generous
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Is it really? I agree he has not been great, but neither has he been terrible. The problem so far with Mount is that Bruno so dominates the ball (which is not necessarily a bad thing) that there's little space for Mount to impose himself on the opponent.
 
It wouldn't surprise me if verane has said he wants to leave in Jan. This is the only reason I can see why he is starting on the bench every game now. He came on as a sub so he isnt injured, and wouldn't be on the bench anyway if he was.
 
RedPed said:
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
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The situation with Sancho and Rashford are completely different and Sancho refusing to apologise was ages ago.
 
Cheimoon said:
No he doesn't. United should take any excessive authority over transfers that he may still hold away from him (like at any reasonably run top club) and evaluate him on his performance in the job he is actually responsible for (or should be): being the coach of the men's first team.

Of course, I don't think I have seen anyone clearly define (based on reliable information) how much authority Ten Hag really has over transfers, but anyway.
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But the statement is correct. He has picked the players to be signed and United have let him. On that he should be accountable.
 
He is losing me with picking Evans/Maguire over Varane and McT over Amrabat
 
What we thinking, was Rashford dropped at the weekend or injured? I'm thinking injured if it's only 1 game on the bench. That would be the second time he's been dropped this season and only for one game, not much of a lesson going to be learnt there.

Looks to me like he's untouchable on ETHs eyes. I also wonder if McClaren agrees with this approach given how he really put the boot in to Rashford for the same things he's still doing, before he joined the club again.
 
dubplate warrior said:
To be honest, I think Murtough needs booting out. Nothing has actually changed.
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Yes I used to think that he might make a difference after Woodward, but there is very little change. Maybe on the youth side, but certainly not the senior squad.
 
pocco said:
At any other club that would be it. He'd be gone. Many clubs would have sacked him already.

To say he'd point be only "on the verge" in those circumstances shows you how serious we are as a club. But you are right. Murtough basically can't sack him as it'll look bad on him.
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But you could argue that many clubs would have sacked Arteta a couple of seasons ago when their own fans wanted him gone after finishing 8th twice and 5th. They stuck with him and are a much better team for it. Plus we’ve gone through the stage of sacking managers very quickly. About time we showed a little faith and see where we are next year which will be his 3rd season.
 
RedPed said:
Surprise, surprise Rashford fit enough to start. So Sancho is left to rot while ten Hag was clearly telling porkies about Rashford being crocked on Saturday. I don't blame Sancho for refusing to apologise.

Dalot, Maguire and Evans starting ahead of Reguilon and Varane. Ten Hag is slowing making a rod for his own back.
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I think he just likes to try and get some consistency which includes sticking with the same back line that got a clean sheet last game.
 
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