I blame the club, and lack of leadership for this situation, rather than the manager.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Honestly, Mount felt like a "just reasonable" signing. English, okay-ish price(probably, cuz he's young English), attainable.
United could've spent whole summer to chase other targets, probably. But I believe club and ETH saw Mount as a systemic player and need him quick to force a system...the issue is we didn't really have a fully functional system to begin with, just half of it.
Last season United won the ball on opponent's half more than anyone in the league so in ETH and club's mind, Mount was that player to elevate this system, theoretically. But Mount is more of a cog in the system than the one that operates it, which is what United needs.
Theoretically, his plan could work. A proper club would find a better & similar-ish player if they were on the same page as manager, but I doubt anyone in the club is that competent. So Mount, it is..
To the people that think he can turn it around and get us to where we think we belong, what is that based on?
I’ll be honest I’m done with him. He can complete the season because I think he’s still good enough to get us 5th place but beyond that I don’t. I thought he was a potential great manager but he’s just a good one in a league with very good and great managers.
I’ll be honest I’m done with him. He can complete the season because I think he’s still good enough to get us 5th place but beyond that I don’t. I thought he was a potential great manager but he’s just a good one in a league with very good and great managers.
Where do we belong? Winning EPL?
As much as I have been extremely critical of ETH, especially how we set's us up, if it's winning the league then as long as Pep is around we need to accept it will not be possible.
But if he was competing with Klopp and Arteta alone, I believe in 2-3 we would have a epl title.
ETH main problem is he's unable to bin off Bruno and Rashford, as this will create tremendous rift especially with Ronaldo, De Gea and Sancho being binned off.
In one hand, i understand him. He can't bin off 5 high profile players within 18 months, but now the problem is our play is dogshit and unscale-able as two other players will always be here yet they compound our in-play issues.
I have concerns with ETH’s management but I just don’t see any realistic alternatives right now.
But I will say that for the most part it’s the players letting the manager down. Take Sancho…whatever really happened it does seem as though professional failure falls on Jadon and not Erik. Rashford…it’s on Antony…it’s on Marcus. The bsck line injuries…self-explanatory.
However, the one decision that undermines ETH’s credibility is Antony. Enough has been said about Antony here, but I still don’t understand that kind of signing when we already had Sancho and two backup RW players behind him. Sancho had been a disappointment without question but that season was truly fekked up and down the squad and a fresh start going into the new season under the new manager was denied to him with Rashford unquestionably the man of the left and now Antony, who’s shit, on the right. Yes, Sancho should have responded better to the challenge but when a new manager orders his club to spend 80m on a new RW it’s hard to escape the conclusion that you’re fukked with the new manager from day one. Had ETH brought in a brilliant RW, that’s life, but he brought in a shocking player and has persisted with him without any benching save the reaction to the news of issues in Antony’s personal life.
But I will say that for the most part it’s the players letting the manager down. Take Sancho…whatever really happened it does seem as though professional failure falls on Jadon and not Erik. Rashford…it’s on Antony…it’s on Marcus. The bsck line injuries…self-explanatory.
However, the one decision that undermines ETH’s credibility is Antony. Enough has been said about Antony here, but I still don’t understand that kind of signing when we already had Sancho and two backup RW players behind him. Sancho had been a disappointment without question but that season was truly fekked up and down the squad and a fresh start going into the new season under the new manager was denied to him with Rashford unquestionably the man of the left and now Antony, who’s shit, on the right. Yes, Sancho should have responded better to the challenge but when a new manager orders his club to spend 80m on a new RW it’s hard to escape the conclusion that you’re fukked with the new manager from day one. Had ETH brought in a brilliant RW, that’s life, but he brought in a shocking player and has persisted with him without any benching save the reaction to the news of issues in Antony’s personal life.
Its not about winning the leauge, we are miles from that. How about sending out a team that is well set up, looks like they have been coached and can play some good football. Is that really too much to ask? Or does he need 5 more years, 10 more signings and £440m more to possibly deliver that? I dont see it
There was a lot of dismay as his price kept creeping up.
Also the usual denial/hope and idea that the new manager has to be supported unconditionally.
Was the same with AWB and Mount. Everyone was a quiet doubter.
This time last season I thought he was perfect for us. Now I'm really not sure, mainly because of signings and style of play. Antony and Mount are real head scratchers. I trusted his judgement with Antony as he saw him every day in training. Mount I have no idea what he was thinking. He was a player that I always breathed a sigh of relief when Southgate didn't start him, so no idea what Ten Haag saw in him and the fact he can't even start now just underlines what to me was pretty obvious.
Think we massively miss a fit and in form Martinez, he gave us a character and ability to play out from the back that we have missed severely ever since he got injured v Seville.
Think we massively miss a fit and in form Martinez, he gave us a character and ability to play out from the back that we have missed severely ever since he got injured v Seville.
OK, so to clarify: the first paragraph of my post served to point out that transfer fees don't really reflect player skills, cause they are strongly influenced by outside factors (the position of the seller and buyer, contract length, other circumstances). This was in response to someone saying United would never get back what they paid for Antony.
Then my second paragraph made the point that United should not let its coach have so much influence on transfer strategy that he can push through a ridiculously expensive transfer for a player who cannot be expected to have a commesnurate value-add to the team. My third paragraph further expanded on that point by saying that there is no current coach that does seem to be a genuine transfer specialist. And then my fourth paragraph tied both these points together by repeating that United's transfer decision-making process is the principal issue here.
That fourth paragraph also did state that the Antony transfer was poor business, and that Ten Hag is poor at this job - but then turned that around by saying he shouldn't have had that responsibility in the first place, shouldn't have it now, and that it should have no relevance to his performance as the coach of United's men's first team.
Maybe this wasn't all stated as clearly, but whatever I am adding through this explanation was all implied, in my view. So what is it that you disagree with here?
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Recruitment has been terrible which is hardly surprising given it’s mostly the same individuals behind the scenes just in different jobs and manager has been given more influence than he would have had in previous jobs.
ETH has also abandoned trying to play anything other than the type of football we have been playing for a decade now. Even if he did survive into next season, which seems unlikely, it is a lot of time wasted in terms of coaching and trying to change how we play. He’ll either just continue or be trying to implement new tactics/style with no credit in the bank and being a bad run away from the sack.
Two wins before the international break would paper over some cracks but our performances are so bad and have become the norm with no sign of any change.
ETH has also abandoned trying to play anything other than the type of football we have been playing for a decade now. Even if he did survive into next season, which seems unlikely, it is a lot of time wasted in terms of coaching and trying to change how we play. He’ll either just continue or be trying to implement new tactics/style with no credit in the bank and being a bad run away from the sack.
Two wins before the international break would paper over some cracks but our performances are so bad and have become the norm with no sign of any change.
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Good post
We lack consistency for a number of reasons and thus our bottom level is pretty much non existent. Back in the day we could get wins at 60 per cent now there’s not telling the outcome at the minute.Something seems amiss here!
Considering our form since the League Cup final, that's wild
I suppose we don't do draws much though
Shows there’s definitely positives too despite current issues.
I was firmly against it even at the time. His lack of production for the price + seemingly mediocre physical traits scared the hell out of me. Also just felt like we were just chasing an ETH obsession instead of finding other better alternatives after Ajax raised the price.
Yeah I've said it's painfully obvious for a bit now that having Ten Hag be basically the only true authority on transfers in the club while also managing is a clueless decision. There isn't another manager in the world with that level of power at a big club, and for good reason as it's basically impossible in modern football to do both with any sort of effectiveness. You could feel it though with how many players we were interested in that all had clear past links to Ten Hag himself. I do think he's a pretty good coach (even if he's not an elite one like we might have hoped), but the obvious downfall of his reign thus far has been the aimless recruitment strategy that doesn't seem to have a real common theme compared to how he apparently wants us to play.
Yes Sir Alex
You should be able to quote some, right?
Pretty sure most were saying it's too much but it's the idiots in charge that got us there
How dare you, Sir Alex!
You cannot possibly know more about football and managing Manchester United than posters!
And that guy Sabitzer saying ETH is great coach, who does he think he is to give that kind of opinion?
If the redcafe court says Eric is a fraud and cannot possibly turn the bad form around, then this is the universal, unquestioned truth, presented by some of the finest thinkers and football analysts.
Shame!
You cannot possibly know more about football and managing Manchester United than posters!
And that guy Sabitzer saying ETH is great coach, who does he think he is to give that kind of opinion?
If the redcafe court says Eric is a fraud and cannot possibly turn the bad form around, then this is the universal, unquestioned truth, presented by some of the finest thinkers and football analysts.
Shame!
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I mean what does he know about managing let alone managing Manchester United.
what a horrible post man. Lest we forget Sir Alex was the one who picked moyes to manage united. Guess that was a great choice? This is just another dumb post that essentially makes it seem like people in the game are infallible and us peons know nothing and shouldnt dare question anything.
Edit: and i was a pretty big pro EtH guy after he drug us across the finish line last season. But it doesnt take a genius to see that our play on the field this season has been downright terrible, and we arent progressing at the moment.
Yeah. Moyes was the one.
What was SAF's stance on Ole and Moyes again?
What are the top managers Sabitzer had played under? Klopp, Pep, Ancelotti... or Nagelsmann, RR, ETH?
No disrespect on SAF ability as manager or his knowledge on football, but everyone have a blind spot, and picking the best manager for our club seem to be SAF's. Else, we wouldn't have this much issue with managers since his retirement.
Nobody is arguing that it's not good at the moment.
I'm moking the people who are dead sure that it's not going to improve.
And especially the "fraud" crew.
I'm moking the people who are dead sure that it's not going to improve.
And especially the "fraud" crew.
But Sir Alex endorsed Moyes which destroyed his entire credibility as a football genius in some people’s eyes.
Yeah, and next time the people you're mocking will mock you and then you'll mock back and it's all great for the forum and really helps us all have an interesting conversation. It's already happening actually, you got a whole bunch of really interesting responses to your post.
Yes, that was sarcasm. Please keep the mocking to yourself, it doesn't help anyone and just contributes to (further) dragging the level of discussion down - which we (mods, scouts) would really like to go up instead!
Glad to come out of this weekend feeling relatively positive. Media were waiting for us to fall flat so the 'sack the manager' circus could move up a gear. The players dug deep and we got our reward in the end. To cap it off, Arsenal and Liverpool were both exposed as over-rated too. At the end of the day we have to look to our own affairs and for once things are looking up. Utd now need to build momentum and to keep believing. Another win V Copenhagen would really be an important result.
Why can’t it be a bit of both? Surely, completely absolving ETH of blame for our current form and transfers is absolutely mental. He deserves some/most of the blame for our current form, right? How much blame do we assign for injury issues? He runs training, so certainly a little bit. How about Rashford’s poor form, Bruno’s poor form? Patterns of play aren’t really evident so far this season. I would argue they were last season, especially after the post WC run, less so after the League Cup final.
I don’t get the fellas on the Caf who put 100% of the blame on the Glazers. The Glazers are stupid, putrid owners, no doubt, and they don’t have a single decisive bone in their bodies, but it’s not like they haven’t backed ETH in the transfer market. They aren’t running training and tactics.
In light of your comment — No one is happy with our performances and results — how long do you give him? Or, further on, what does he have to achieve? Top 4 / CL qualification? Mid table and still stay with him?
I think for me, after spending 400m+ and 18 months in the job, he probably needs to make the CL — probably top 5 this year. In addition, we look lost when attacking and in transition defending. I don’t care if we play the high press, counter attacking, possession tiki taka, whatever, I just want some sort of style of play.
He absolutely should be held responsible for our performances. I’m not saying we have to sack him now, but it should at least improve over the next month or so.
He is a genius manager. He is not a DoF or the ones who picks the managers for the club.But Sir Alex endorsed Moyes which destroyed his entire credibility as a football genius in some people’s eyes.
I feel people need to forget about Ajax style. Just focusing on the Fulham game, it’s clear that ETH is trying to play us in many elements like Liverpool do, very straight with fast transition. But we have different ideas in the first and second phases. When all injuries return, I am looking forward to what the team will play like. Will we then ask Shaw and Dalot rush forward and bomb the box? Will we push a CB to the midfield?
I guess Sir Alex and Sabitzer are acolytes of "ETH's cult" eh?
Quite possibly it’s not about the managers but the owners?
He also gave his backing to Ole Gunnar Solskjaer after Liverpool demolished us 5:0. Guess who was sacked a month later?
But of course, don't let me get into the way of the narrative.
Arguably United turned for worse during the summer and Sabitzer left in the summer. I don't believe that EtH is a bad coach and therefore have no reason to doubt what Sabitzer was saying, but I do believe that something went wrong and Sabitzer hasn't witnessed that as he is now at Dortmund. And anyway I don't think if he was still at United he would make issues public.
SAF has a history of backing the wrong manager, it looks like he is far better at managing himself than judging who can do his job.
Does he? He wanted Pep or Ancelotti to replace him initially. Neither were attainable, so he turned to Moyes who at the time seemed like an appropriate choice.
Not gonna lie, I cringed pretty hard! Sheesh...
Nah, not having that. People may have backed him at the beginning, but I don't think many believed in him at all. Never made sense.
I think it very quickly became clear that Moyes wasn't up to the job. Also the example of Ole shortly before he was sacked was mentioned.
Or maybe he knows what it takes to get through a bad patch and doesn’t support this sack the manager pitchfork agenda so many people endorse.
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