Am I right in saying we have gone 23 games without a draw in all competitions? Is that a club record?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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My understanding of that comment was that he wanted a veto right; not that he was actually in charge of transfers. He wasn't at Ajax either, and it's normal for a coach to be part of the prioritization and decision-making process. I mean, it's not very healthy either if the whole transfer strategy is carried out without these inputs from the coach.
However, if Ten Hag does have (much) more power than that, then yes, that's dumb. He can't have time for all that alongside his coaching job, it's not his strength, and it's bad practice. The existence of such an arrangement would reflect badly on him and the club, and I would say that the club would have to end that particular arrangement ASAP. (As a separate issue from whether or not they should retain him as a coach.)
But as I said, I don't think that's how it's done at United currently. Although stories about Ten Hag pushing for players last summer might suggest that he is a bit too dominant in these discussions - but it's hard to see through the smoke of all the media reports and discern what really happens within United.
Thanks for the great follow-up btw, @Adnan.
Not sure, but it won’t be much wrong. Draw is so rare under ETH.
Sorry if it’s been posted already, but saw today he yesterday equalled Ernest Mangnall’s 118 year record yesterday to be the United manager to get to 50 wins in the fewest games (79)
It’s a strange stat cos both Mourinho (81) and Ole (95) both did it quicker than Fergie and Busby but still worthwhile context give all the doom around the club and the threat to his role.
It’s a strange stat cos both Mourinho (81) and Ole (95) both did it quicker than Fergie and Busby but still worthwhile context give all the doom around the club and the threat to his role.
The saga around Antony isn't relative of price it's relative of the players quality. Conflicting reports that the clubs scouts didn't entertain the idea of signing him while the manager thought he would have feasibility for a specific role. It's not his price that is the issues it's his quality. As Ajax fans had stated clearly on this forum the managers ability to identify talent is poor, when Ratcliffe comes in with a new director of football, this current establishment that the manager has will be in the bin which is good for all parties involved.
The team's performances need to improve that is the bottom line. If the Glazers are the biggest hindrance to a managers capability how and why was the team successful last season ? Nothings changed, more money has been spent and the team is worse, the defense mechanism excuses are falling short. There's an influence the owners have but it's relative and loses context the moment it comes down to the training field and tactical approaches set by the manager and his staff. United have underperformed this season because of the manager not the owners. If Erik gets credit for the team last season, he gets criticism for the start this season, he alluded to the same point himself in an interview after the Newcastle game he's failed most of his own responsibilities.
I do hope he's capable of turning around but United are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to playing teams in the lower end of the table, I maintain that by February/ March his position will be untenable but we'll see.
The team's performances need to improve that is the bottom line. If the Glazers are the biggest hindrance to a managers capability how and why was the team successful last season ? Nothings changed, more money has been spent and the team is worse, the defense mechanism excuses are falling short. There's an influence the owners have but it's relative and loses context the moment it comes down to the training field and tactical approaches set by the manager and his staff. United have underperformed this season because of the manager not the owners. If Erik gets credit for the team last season, he gets criticism for the start this season, he alluded to the same point himself in an interview after the Newcastle game he's failed most of his own responsibilities.
I do hope he's capable of turning around but United are making a mountain out of a molehill when it comes to playing teams in the lower end of the table, I maintain that by February/ March his position will be untenable but we'll see.
50 wins in 79 games for Ten Hag now. The joint-quickest equalling a record that stood for 118 years.
Ernest Mangnall, who led the club to its first major trophy in winning the 1908 First Division title, also registered 50 wins in his first 79 games, crossing the milestone in 1905 when United beat Blackpool 1-0 at Bloomfield Road.
Ernest Mangnall, who led the club to its first major trophy in winning the 1908 First Division title, also registered 50 wins in his first 79 games, crossing the milestone in 1905 when United beat Blackpool 1-0 at Bloomfield Road.
I don't think it really signifies anything as you said when you consider context, at the time Jose was sacked with a near 60% win rate which as a case study would seem ridiculous.
Equivalent of the stimmie effect with signings like Casemiro- short-term 'gains' in terms of productivity, long-term physical and mental weakening (or, in this case, a sluggish - physically and mentally - style of play once Casemiro starts to decline).
It's been a horribly inefficient use of 'natural' resources in the longer-term: with that 400m you could have assembled 8 or 9 of Europe' and South America's most promising young players (outside of the ones who Madrid have hoovered up) and integrated them into a team alongside the best of the players ETH inherited. I'd have taken a 6th place finish but a long-term development of style of play for that. You could still have signed Licha, and even Eriksen as a squad option to complement the younger players, amongst those.
Couldn’t give a heck.
You might have taken that 6th place but the club wants CL football and a lot of other fans wouldnt have accepted that 6th place (if you even get that with promising young players - see Chelsea).
Well, the club seems willing to extend benefit of the doubt to ETH regarding both performances and results since March, so there are obviously dominant elements in the club which ( whatever the merits of that approach when it comes to this particular manager ) are at least partly thinking about this as a long-term rather than immediate short-term gains project. In that regard, they could have easily 'sold' 6th to the fans and shareholders.
Also, Chelsea's approach is flawed in terms of sheer recruitment numbers, but still more logical -and understood to be be more logical' by large parts of their fan base from what I can see, than ours, since they're essentially acquiring and bedding in a team of technically excellent and physically equipped young players who could challenge City (and Liverpool and whoever else, Arsenal/Tottenham also steps up) longer term, along with DOF/recruitment structure. There isn't anything like that evidence of intelligent team-building from our side - someone like Hojlund aside.
The system is gradually taking shape. Maybe in a month, the team as a whole can reach a cohesive state. It’s less chaotic now.
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Good post. Just one thing I'd add: I am not sure how this is organized or should be perfectly organized - but from my point of few, our scouts should just care to create players profiles. Wether they are good signing or not is very much a complex task, as long as nobody has an actual overarching plan on how to set up, which player profiles are needed, how is the age structure looking, what kind of players might come through the academy, it is completely outcome based, we might as well just throw the dice. So for the actual situation in ETHs first summer: I can totally understand that our scouts evaluations were ignored. There is simply nothing to suggest they knew too much about the player anyway, and they for sure didn't know more than ETH if the player suits ETHs plan. I would expected them to say "hey guys, the prices that are being talked about are very much on the higher side, so overpaying is a risk" but thats it.
Only points even more towards us needing an actual DOF kind of figure. You can call him chief of football or mayor of football village, as long as there is somebody in there who will setup a more global plan, where all football departments can then align towards.
Very good point. I also thought about it. Names of Alvarez, Enzo and a few others (this brazilian Andre guy) are known to even youtube channels that focus on "scouting", those guys are out there and it isn't as if they are completely hidden. Obviously, not all of them will work out and also obviously, at United the environment with all that pressure isn't necessarily the best but lets not act as if it is better right now. If we say "hey, we can't go full progressive because we have to maintain short-term success" then thats fair to a degree, but this success has to then be there - what we are doing right now, feels a bit like offering our longterm-success for mere attempts at short-term success. And current season makes it look as if we will fail on both accounts.
Did you quote the right post?
P38 W23 L9 D6 GF58 GA43 - Win% 60.5, GF 1.53/G, GA 1.12/G
P11 W6 L5 D0 GF 12 GA 16 - WIn% 54.5, GF 1.09/G, GA 1.45/G
P49 W29 L14 D6 GF70 G 59 - Win% 59.2, GF 1.43/G, GA 1.2/G
The league stats are the ones really matter and depict the progress a team is making, or the lack of it. It is our bread and butter, and the performance there matter the most. Cup games are luck of the draw and can skew the stats one way or the other. That's why I have never believed in the assertions that winning the League cup or the FA cup are the ladders to success and instill a winning mentality. The only thing that instills a winning mentality is winning constantly by putting in good performances. Good teams some times need to dig deep and grind out results but bad teams, like we are, can only grind out results.
We do not create many chances or work the opposition keeper nearly enough. Like was the problem under Van Gaal, we are again asking our strikers/front players for a very high level of efficiency in order for them and the team to be successful. Against any big team, the opposition will generally sit back, be compact, play cautiously and try to hit them on the counter. The best way to break their pattern is to score early goals and disrupt their game plan. Make them come out so that it creates more openings for us to attack into. What we do is to play in front of the opposition and make us easy to defend against. Our slow build up and inability to get behind are huge culprits in that regard. The speed of our passing and our movement is too pedestrian to ever become a good team.
P11 W6 L5 D0 GF 12 GA 16 - WIn% 54.5, GF 1.09/G, GA 1.45/G
P49 W29 L14 D6 GF70 G 59 - Win% 59.2, GF 1.43/G, GA 1.2/G
The league stats are the ones really matter and depict the progress a team is making, or the lack of it. It is our bread and butter, and the performance there matter the most. Cup games are luck of the draw and can skew the stats one way or the other. That's why I have never believed in the assertions that winning the League cup or the FA cup are the ladders to success and instill a winning mentality. The only thing that instills a winning mentality is winning constantly by putting in good performances. Good teams some times need to dig deep and grind out results but bad teams, like we are, can only grind out results.
We do not create many chances or work the opposition keeper nearly enough. Like was the problem under Van Gaal, we are again asking our strikers/front players for a very high level of efficiency in order for them and the team to be successful. Against any big team, the opposition will generally sit back, be compact, play cautiously and try to hit them on the counter. The best way to break their pattern is to score early goals and disrupt their game plan. Make them come out so that it creates more openings for us to attack into. What we do is to play in front of the opposition and make us easy to defend against. Our slow build up and inability to get behind are huge culprits in that regard. The speed of our passing and our movement is too pedestrian to ever become a good team.
True. Sancho is only possible to sell to Saudi and Antony is not easy to sell either. So no RW for us until Jim has arrived. ETH should not have any saying whatsoever.
If Ratcliffe takes over transfers then we’ll be England number 2. He’ll sign a ton of British players. Hence why he’s targeting potter for manager.
My post was in response to what you said about physicality:
"And then he signs Antony and Mount and Eriksen and Malacia. We couldn't deal with Newcastle's physicality."
If these players couldnt deal with the oppositions physicality, its not because they lack technical ability, its because they're just not willing to put in a shift. Regardless of how technical Peps players are, theyre also willing to graft for each other right. Who said Pep wanted him? I said Mount would look a different player in Citys system.
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Agreed. And from what Adnan has been posting, it does seem United make more sense in this regard now. Last summer also showed a much more coherent approach to transfer strategy - even if the late lunge for Amrabat was not ideal.
(Although that seems to have been a budget issue, that in turn depended on the outcome of the Maguire and McTominay situations. Many posters also see Mount as a bad decision of course, but I would argue that you can't know that until Ten Hag has had more chance to play his first team and instill his tactical ideas. If Mount still underperforms then (or again ends up on the bench even), then sure, not good a transfer. But right now, judgement on him is still premature I'd say.)
What do you base that on? The current favorite for CEO is Jean-Claude Blanc, the current favorite for DOF is Paul Mitchell. Both with extensive experience with the french market. Why would they sign British players?
Reports the last few weeks saying Ratcliffe favours British players. And he’s proving that by being interested in potter who is also English.
So United had a chance to get Antony for 80m early in the summer and it’s the clubs fault because they didn’t do it earlier and ended up buying him for 100m. But it’s okey for ETH to insist on a player who at best is a 30m euro player, worked with him previously and and then giving the green light to spend the said sum? Absolutely laughable reasoning.
Exactly. It is mindblowing that ETH spent 85m Sterling on a player he knew very well and turned out to be an expensive flop. And noone inside the club brought up the Donny transfer as a red flag? This just proves that ETH and the structure around him are not competent.
He didn’t call him out. He addressed it and then spent ages bigging Rashford up.
Wow, what a professional conclusion to make…
Don't believe everything you read
Not sure who they are trying to fool with that timeline fiasco about Antony, it was a no go at 55m euros never mind 80m they asked from the start. ETH and every sane person involved should have pulled the brake right there and then. We came back and gave them even more.
Seriously? He’s a grown man and professional athlete not a 19 year old college student.
It’s the same tragic business conduct on Mount, Hojlund, and Onana. Just considering the market valuation overall, overpaying 40% is the way for the club to get the deals done. They have to be fired from their jobs.
Well I read up that Ratcliffe is buying a 25% stake of the club…
Hes not solely in charge of signing players. Also he has got Antony wrong but that does not mean he as a manager is incompetent. It's a bit of an extreme conclusion.
I have absolutely no idea how you read my post and came to that interpretation. So, erm, no comment I guess.
what reports, where?
Potter is a logical choice considering that most managers are in work already but we have been linked with the guy from Portugal too but that doesn’t fit the narrative you’re trying to spin.
THATS what you took from the post?
So the clubs fault was not telling Ten Hag to feck off when he insisted on Antony? Even though we walked away in June?
Believe it or not, the final destination on signing off on players isn't with Ten Hag
'Hey Ten Hag mate, they want €90m for him, are you sure?'
Ten Hag is not innocent in this at all.
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