Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Roane]

It seems EtH wants both De Jong and Eriksen before moving on to other signings.

Views them as key to how he wants to play. Thoughts?

I have a feeling its a bit more than that. Obviously he will want players who will fit his system etc but I think a "big" signing is intent and sends a message. We have been a feck up for a bit now and not in CL etc so we can't really use that as "bait" for signings. So signing a Barca player shows we mean business.

I feel maybe that first big signing will lead to a domino effect in terms of other signings falling into place. And quickly.

That's just my feelings/musings. For me likes of Pogba leaving on a free would maybe put doubt in a players mind. We can say Pogba was rubbish etc but he is a big name and known around the world. With. Other leaks and how we have been run and played I think intent is our only real weapon left in terms of enticing players to a "project".

 

[Tarrou]

Totally agree with the idea of having a list of players and working down the list.

I'm just saying apart from Bissaka(poor technique), Telles(slower than me) and Maguire(turns like me Dad), I think the current squad has the type of players that will suit his system. I wanna see Hannibal, Garner, Diallo, Pellistri, Tuanzebe and Laird play the cup matches to see if they're good enough.

I'm saying that if we've gone down the lists and haven't gotten anyone we're still capable of having a good season and don't need to panic.

I don't think we have the midfielders to have a good season, unfortunately

we didn't have them last season and three have left

these kids aren't ready either

 

[Mickeza]

I have a feeling its a bit more than that. Obviously he will want players who will fit his system etc but I think a "big" signing is intent and sends a message. We have been a feck up for a bit now and not in CL etc so we can't really use that as "bait" for signings. So signing a Barca player shows we mean business.

I feel maybe that first big signing will lead to a domino effect in terms of other signings falling into place. And quickly.

I agree. I think it’s a statement signing for future targets to show we mean business.

 

[Greck]

I have a feeling its a bit more than that. Obviously he will want players who will fit his system etc but I think a "big" signing is intent and sends a message. We have been a feck up for a bit now and not in CL etc so we can't really use that as "bait" for signings. So signing a Barca player shows we mean business.

I feel maybe that first big signing will lead to a domino effect in terms of other signings falling into place. And quickly.

That's just my feelings/musings. For me likes of Pogba leaving on a free would maybe put doubt in a players mind. We can say Pogba was rubbish etc but he is a big name and known around the world. With. Other leaks and how we have been run and played I think intent is our only real weapon left in terms of enticing players to a "project".

I personally don't think he cares too much about the big willie aspect, I think he wants his play circulating midfielder and looking at our midfield I can see why. Our midfield is low on press resistance, intelligence and natural feel for possession. We are generally just low on possession functionality, life support low. It's a great call on his part.

 

[Roane]

I personally don't think he cares too much about the big willie aspect, I think he wants his play circulating midfielder and looking at our midfield I can see why. Our midfield is low on press resistance, intelligence and natural feel for possession. We are generally low on possession functionality, life support low. It's a great call on his part.

I could be wrong of course and it is just my own musings really rather than any reports etc.

I do agree it isn't about the big Willie aspect. He will buy what he needs rather than a big name for the sake of a big name. However I think he needs a FDJ type name because he is what we need but also a name that shows intent.

I just hope it works out and we don't do a Moyes where names like Fabegas were mentioned but we ended up paying silly money for fellaini.

I think a statement signing and a couple cheap ones is a good message to send out.

 

[NLunited]

I‘m not sure exactly how Eriksen ccould be fitted in, but I‘m sure Ten Hag has a plan for him. He has the qualities for Ten Hag ball. It will be interesting if we actually get him.

I remember his first game back in the Danish team: it was great. He looked really good and scored.

 

[sglowrider]

I can see the first few months being a shocker. The change ETH wants to implement will be so alien to the current squad.

 

[OpenIntrovert]

I‘m not sure exactly how Eriksen ccould be fitted in, but I‘m sure Ten Hag has a plan for him. He has the qualities for Ten Hag ball. It will be interesting if we actually get him.

I remember his first game back in the Danish team: it was great. He looked really good and scored.

If ETH really wanted him, then it makes me feel that VDB might not be playing at AM, where VDB could be playing in CM alongside FDJ. It is also possible that it could be a flat midfield of 3 CMs with FDJ in the center, flanked by Eriksen and VDB. Bruno could either be a CM candidate as well. Hmm, interesting.

 

[Ole's screen]

I can see the first few months being a shocker. The change ETH wants to implement will be so alien to the current squad.

If the first few months are a shocker (I mean we have like 3 wins in 10 or something) he’ll be sacked.

 

[sglowrider]

If the first few months are a shocker (I mean we have like 3 wins in 10 or something) he’ll be sacked.

Doubt it. If he is as smart as what people have suggested, he would have laid out a plan to the upper management and set lower expectations coming in. ts a almost different way of playing to what we had before -- I don't think LVG even tried this different an approach. So explain to them what needs to be changed with a roadmap.

We will be average in his 1st season -- maybe not much difference in league position. But towards the end of the season you will see some semblance of what he is trying to create.

The question is whether United will or can afford to deply the financial resources to get ETH over that hump in next summer's transfer window. The football management team above ETH will need to go to bat for him to Arnold and the Glazers. They have as much to lose as ETH, dead men walking if ETH fails.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

It seems EtH wants both De Jong and Eriksen before moving on to other signings.

Views them as key to how he wants to play. Thoughts?

McFred traumatized me last season, as well as Bruno's carelessness with the ball, and I do not want to see those 3 (McFeed & B.Fernandes) start together ever again, so, I 100% support Ten Hag's plans for getting 2 excellent CMs in De Jong & Eriksen, who are able to retain possession, pass accurately and maintain control of Medfield.

 

[DJ_21]

I could be wrong of course and it is just my own musings really rather than any reports etc.

I do agree it isn't about the big Willie aspect. He will buy what he needs rather than a big name for the sake of a big name. However I think he needs a FDJ type name because he is what we need but also a name that shows intent.

I just hope it works out and we don't do a Moyes where names like Fabegas were mentioned but we ended up paying silly money for fellaini.

I think a statement signing and a couple cheap ones is a good message to send out.

I don’t think we had any chance of signing fabregas or any big name under moyes. The club was a total disaster back then worse then it’s ever been. Moyes isn’t really a big name manager that big players will want to play for. If de jong wants to join then we’ll get him aslong as we pay what Barca want for him.

 

[Stobzilla]

I don’t think we had any chance of signing fabregas or any big name under moyes. The club was a total disaster back then worse then it’s ever been. Moyes isn’t really a big name manager that big players will want to play for. If de jong wants to join then we’ll get him aslong as we pay what Barca want for him.

I mean, we had Kroos in the bag under Moyes only for it to be vetoed by van Gaal

 

[Sleigh]

As an outsider looking in, I feel like he’s looking at players who he’s had before at Ajax etc

I have a feeling he’ll be a bit of a car crash and you’ll want him gone before the season is out.

VDB hasn’t shown anything since leaving Ajax that he’s the required level for yourselves. Now talk of him being a mainstay of the United midfield is bizarre. Similar to the touts of Anthony, VDB and Timber. I’d also seen Haller mentioned.

 

[yumtum]

As an outsider looking in, I feel like he’s looking at players who he’s had before at Ajax etc

I have a feeling he’ll be a bit of a car crash and you’ll want him gone before the season is out.

VDB hasn’t shown anything since leaving Ajax that he’s the required level for yourselves. Now talk of him being a mainstay of the United midfield is bizarre. Similar to the touts of Anthony, VDB and Timber. I’d also seen Haller mentioned.

It's because United clearly don't have a long term plan, or a medium term plan for that matter.

There should have been someone at the club to identify players that Ten Hag could work with (like a director of football...) and started the process of signing them, pulling the trigger once Ten Hag was confirmed, but from all the media talk, and our pursuit of De Jong it seems it was left to Ten Hag to pick targets, as he's not a scout and was never in charge of picking players at Ajax, then wanting who he knows fits his system makes sense.

It's the total lack of future planning by United that's going to be Ten Hags undoing.

 

[frostbite]

It's because United clearly don't have a long term plan, or a medium term plan for that matter.

There should have been someone at the club to identify players that Ten Hag could work with (like a director of football...) and started the process of signing them, pulling the trigger once Ten Hag was confirmed, but from all the media talk, and our pursuit of De Jong it seems it was left to Ten Hag to pick targets, as he's not a scout and was never in charge of picking players at Ajax, then wanting who he knows fits his system makes sense.

It's the total lack of future planning by United that's going to be Ten Hags undoing.

I don't think any team has "long term planning ". I don't think it is possible to have long term planning the way you mean it. What all teams are trying to do is to buy the best players they can afford.

Take City for example. They played for 2 years without a striker. Was that long term planning? Of course not. They tried to get a striker, and when they couldn't get one they wanted, Pep adapted. Now that they have a great striker, Pep will again adapt.

That s what all teams do. They get the best players they can, and a top manager can create a plan to make this group stronger than its parts. A bad manager makes the group weaker than its parts. Even with zero new players we will be better next year, because ETH is better than Ole. If we can buy a couple of top players we will be even better. And so on. There is no magical long term planning involved, football is quite simple actually.

 

[yumtum]

I don't think any team has "long term planning ". I don't think it is possible to have long term planning the way you mean it. What all teams are trying to do is to buy the best players they can afford.

Take City for example. They played for 2 years without a striker. Was that long term planning? Of course not. They tried to get a striker, and when they couldn't get one they wanted, Pep adapted. Now that they have a great striker, Pep will again adapt.

That s what all teams do. They get the best players they can, and a top manager can create a plan to make this group stronger than its parts. A bad manager makes the group weaker than its parts. Even with zero new players we will be better next year, because ETH is better than Ole. If we can buy a couple of top players we will be even better. And so on. There is no magical long term planning involved, football is quite simple actually.

If you're using City as an example of a team that doesn't plan for the longterm then there's no point even discussing this.

 

[Highfather_24]

It's because United clearly don't have a long term plan, or a medium term plan for that matter.

There should have been someone at the club to identify players that Ten Hag could work with (like a director of football...) and started the process of signing them, pulling the trigger once Ten Hag was confirmed, but from all the media talk, and our pursuit of De Jong it seems it was left to Ten Hag to pick targets, as he's not a scout and was never in charge of picking players at Ajax, then wanting who he knows fits his system makes sense.

It's the total lack of future planning by United that's going to be Ten Hags undoing.

This is John Murtough's job.

But to no one's surprise, incompetence shines through once again this transfer window.

 

[Olecurls99]

I don't think we have the midfielders to have a good season, unfortunately

we didn't have them last season and three have left

these kids aren't ready either

Well we won't know unless we play em. Look at Mount and James at Chelsea. They had good seasons in the Championship and after were aiming the Champions league.

I see enough in Garner and Hannibal to think that they can be an improvement on Mctominay and I think Fred and Donny have what it takes to play in a Ten Hag system. I'm less sure about Bruno and Mctominay but we'll see.

We lost Pogba who ball hogs and Matic and Mata who are too slow for the PL. We didn't lose that much.

I actually think our midfield has improved without making a signing.

 

[Caesar2290]

If you're using City as an example of a team that doesn't plan for the longterm then there's no point even discussing this.

Because it is. For all the lauded long term planning that City had done, that squad that Pep inherited clearly wasn't prepped for him the way he wanted.

Aguero, Yaya and Joe Hart spring to mind. Pep literally had to start Caballero before he got Bravo and then Ederson a year later. And don't get me started on the fullbacks.

Long term planning at it's finest I guess.

The notion that the DoF signs a player and the manager has to figure out what to do with him doesn't make sense for big clubs. Usually the manager will tell the DoF what profile of a player he wants and the club will deliver him.

Sometimes they will agree, sometimes they won't like pool with Brandt vs Salah. But the notion that DoF just signs players independent of the manager is just bollocks.

 

[frostbite]

If you're using City as an example of a team that doesn't plan for the longterm then there's no point even discussing this.

Yes there is no point discussing something obvious. Pep wanted the best striker in the world. If he could get CR7 last year, he'd adapt his system in order to use him properly. And if Real was able to get Haaland this year, Pep would be making different plans for next year, perhaps radically different plans.

Pep is creating the system. Not the DoF.

 

[largelyworried]

It's because United clearly don't have a long term plan, or a medium term plan for that matter.

There should have been someone at the club to identify players that Ten Hag could work with (like a director of football...) and started the process of signing them, pulling the trigger once Ten Hag was confirmed, but from all the media talk, and our pursuit of De Jong it seems it was left to Ten Hag to pick targets, as he's not a scout and was never in charge of picking players at Ajax, then wanting who he knows fits his system makes sense.

It's the total lack of future planning by United that's going to be Ten Hags undoing.

This is just daft, how can the club know what kind of players Ten Hag can work with until they actually start working with him? How do they know which players he things are good enough and which aren't? How do they know what personalities ETH wants in his dressing room and who he wants to get rid of? This is doubly true when there are more problem positions than we can afford to sort out in a single transfer window. That doesn't mean ETH has been left to pick our targets, it simply means he is an important part of the conversation.

 

[Tarrou]

Well we won't know unless we play em. Look at Mount and James at Chelsea. They had good seasons in the Championship and after were aiming the Champions league.

I see enough in Garner and Hannibal to think that they can be an improvement on Mctominay and I think Fred and Donny have what it takes to play in a Ten Hag system. I'm less sure about Bruno and Mctominay but we'll see.

We lost Pogba who ball hogs and Matic and Mata who are too slow for the PL. We didn't lose that much.

I actually think our midfield has improved without making a signing.

true, but for the most part we do know based on their performances in training, the reserves and on loan..

the last part is unknown but it’s hardly some massive surprise either

this idea that we just throw them in and some sink and some swim is a bit of a fallacy.. their progression is carefully managed until those responsible for their development feel they are ready, and that usually means a few sub appearances and league cup starts to test the water first - which they need to do well in

none of these lads have even got that far yet

 

[frostbite]

Nobody, in no football team (or actually any team basketball, baseball, any sport) is thinking "how can we win 5 years from now?".

Everyone is thinking "we have this group of players, how can we improve to a better group?". Not necessarily win it all, but improve.

A better group (players, manager) means better results next year, or at least a better way of playing next year. If there is no improvement next year, then they failed.

You can't really predict anything two or three years down the road, we can't even predict next year! You can't say "next year we'll be worse but two years from now we'll be better". Nobody says that because if next year you are worse, chances are you will be even worse two years from now!

 

[Olecurls99]

true, but for the most part we do know based on their performances in training, the reserves and on loan..

the last part is unknown but it’s hardly some massive surprise either

this idea that we just throw them in and some sink and some swim is a bit of a fallacy.. their progression is carefully managed until those responsible for their development feel they are ready, and that usually means a few sub appearances and league cup starts to test the water first - which they need to do well in

none of these lads have even got that far yet

I think Lampard threw Mount straight in from Derby and he blossomed. I'm just saying from what I see Hannibal and Garner have the athletic and technical ability to play the Ten Hag system. Don't you think they look better than Mctominay?

 

[largelyworried]

Because it is. For all the lauded long term planning that City had done, that squad that Pep inherited clearly wasn't prepped for him the way he wanted.

This is a good point when you actually look at the squads. Of the 16 players who managed more than 30 appearances in Pellegrini's last season, 8 of them were sold or loaned and 2 were benchwarmers by the time Pep won the league for the first time.

Or to put it another way, 7 of the 13 players that played 30 times or more in that title winning season under Pep were bought after he arrived.

In my mind I remember the full backs he splurged on and replacing Hart, but now I look, he actually replaced half the first team.

 

[frostbite]

One last post from me on "long term planning".

Real wanted Mbappe and they got very upset when they couldn't get him. Why they did not just say "Hey we can't Mbappe, let's get Rashford instead"? Because simply he isn't as good. All teams are trying to get the best manager and the best players they can, and the ability to spot them is the best "planning" you can do.

 

[frostbite]

I think Lampard threw Mount straight in from Derby and he blossomed. I'm just saying from what I see Hannibal and Garner have the athletic and technical ability to play the Ten Hag system. Don't you think they look better than Mctominay?

People also thought Tuanzebe looked better than what we had. Usually it doesn't work out. But people will remember Mount and not the dozens that failed.

 

[LoneStar]

Eriksen’s pass accuracy was worse than Bruno’s last season.

Think he can comfortably adjust if needed. His role in that Brentford team would presumably be very different to what he will need to do here if he is to join us. I think Bruno will be asked to temp it down as well.

 

[LoneStar]

The fact that we are almost exclusively linked with Ajax players (former or current) is a bit concerning for sure. Of course, a lot of it could just be media conjecture, but we certainly have strong links with FDJ and Timber. I can see why Ten Hag would want that, but I’m hoping our scouting would have done some work, and shown him players who might suit his style.

Regardless of who we sign, I’m more keen on how Ten Hag will improve our current players. Some of them are certainly better or at least capable of being better compared to the shitshow last season.

 

[Bestietom]

Ten Hag likes his midfielders to be able to take a pass when closely marked, and be able to play themselves out of trouble.
McTominay or Fred can not do this and lost the ball or misplaced a rushed pass.
Our forward line often lose the ball also and Rashford and Sancho as well as Elanga need to sharpen up this season and let the ball off quicker instead of running into trouble.
Fernandes will need to make sure of his passes and not be trying the almost impossible. Losing the ball too often will lose him his place next season.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Watching all the players posting their fitness regimes on social media. You know what, you do this every close season. You know what, having a beautiful body does not make you pass the ball better, control the ball better. It does not help with speed of thought. Maybe do a bit of practicing with a football rather than using weights. They always put this stuff out there, look at me working so hard and two weeks into the season they are fecked.

 

[choccy77]

Another thing that frustrates me, is we still have a lot of deadwood, yet we still are moving very slowly in getting rid of them.

This should have been a top priority for the first month of this window, get the rubbish out & have fresh energy coming in.

 

[Tarrou]

I think Lampard threw Mount straight in from Derby and he blossomed. I'm just saying from what I see Hannibal and Garner have the athletic and technical ability to play the Ten Hag system. Don't you think they look better than Mctominay?

Young players who are ready for a top PL midfield are a bit of an exception, and the chances are neither are physically ready. I haven't seen much from either to suggest they are ready for that, have you?

Mason Mount had achieved a lot more, including taking the absolute piss in the Eredivisie aged 18.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Another thing that frustrates me, is we still have a lot of deadwood, yet we still are moving very slowly in getting rid of them.

This should have been a top priority for the first month of this window, get the rubbish out & have fresh energy coming in.

To get rid of those players it would take biting the bullet from both sides. Us with any fee and them with their wage demands.

 

[choccy77]

To get rid of those players it would take biting the bullet from both sides. Us with any fee and them with their wage demands.

Well, United have shown they like throwing money away, so they should just release them & pay up their contracts.

Why have their negativity in the squad & pay them for doing nothing.

We should just push them out & move on.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Well, United have shown they like throwing money away, so they should just release them & pay up their contracts.

Why have their negativity in the squad & pay them for doing nothing.

We should just push them out & move on.

You can understand why Arnold is likely frustrated at us renewing contracts willy nilly for stupid wages that were not justified to supposedly protect the players value. That policy hasn't worked very well has it. Agree it is either waive a fee so a selling club can pay them more in wages or just look how long their contracts have left and buy them out if it is viable in the long term.

 

[roonster09]

Well, United have shown they like throwing money away, so they should just release them & pay up their contracts.

Why have their negativity in the squad & pay them for doing nothing.

We should just push them out & move on.

Maybe because we don't have endless cash reserves to pay all the players contract upfront to release them.

It's not even realistic, it's amazing how people just come up with some fantasy world scenario and then moan about club not following it.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

Maybe because we don't have endless cash reserves to pay all the players contract upfront to release them.

It's not even realistic, it's amazing how people just come up with some fantasy world scenario and then moan about club not following it.

The best thing to do would be not renewing contracts when it isn't necessary. Bosman has cause problems there, as though it panics clubs into this. The wages we pay are ridiculous. Is that because it is all we can offer at the moment. I can understand when signing new players, but who thought it was a good idea to pay Jones what he gets, we can't even sell him to BUPA for medical research.

 

[choccy77]

Maybe because we don't have endless cash reserves to pay all the players contract upfront to release them.

It's not even realistic, it's amazing how people just come up with some fantasy world scenario and then moan about club not following it.

What I am saying is, people like Jones, should be paid off to leave, it can be negotiated to be less etc if he wants to play elsewhere still.

It makes no sense having him.

Also, no doubt, it can be some kind of tax write off or other loss which the business always incorporates into it's yearly budgets anyhow.