Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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11 goals in 10 games and fecking leaky defence. Make Moyes, LVG and Jose who are known as "anti football coach" look like Pep.

And at least some of our previous failed managers could either scrub wins against the top sides through solid defending and counter punching, or build teams that could style on the weaker teams and score goals for fun (best seasons of Jose and Ole)

Under ETH, how many games have we played well against top or top half sides, home or away? Almost none. How many times have we scored 3 or more goals in a comfortable win? Almost none.
 
they are the most well run top club. United is the polar opposite. Yet they still made mistake.
Nagelmann still had good UCL run. Tuchel won bundesliga but it was more of a fluke than anything

I don't even know what you're trying to say here. I used Bayern as a recent example that elite football teams sack underperforming managers, they do. If you're going to say Bayern are the "most well-run top club" - then that further corroborates my point - elite football teams sack underperforming managers.
 
Bottom line is that HIS signings have let him down..:.not all of them like Licha but most.

Also, he seems unable to rock the boat enough by dropping Bruno and Rashford - think the Sancho issue has effected him as well.

He really needs to change it up as what he is serving up right now is tosh and ineffective.

If he doesn’t he will be sacked.

Licha wasn't playing well before his injury either.
 
I'd sack him tomorrow, but Murtough being in charge of his successor worries me greatly. He could hire another dud, but maybe he'll get lucky too.

If Ratcliffe gains control soon, he should sack him immediately and bring in someone else.
 
And at least some of our previous failed managers could either scrub wins against the top sides through solid defending and counter punching, or build teams that could style on the weaker teams and score goals for fun (best seasons of Jose and Ole)

Under ETH, how many games have we played well against top or top half sides, home or away? Almost none. How many times have we scored 3 or more goals in a comfortable win? Almost none.

Thats the thing -- most people like to compare managers -- XXX current manager against the last few months of the previous manager (which would obviously be crap or they wouldn't be sacked).

The true comparison is when you compare the ceiling or the best of the managers. ETH's best against XXX Manager's best. Otherwise, it is a pointless discussion that as an inevitable conclusion.

Was peak Jose or Ole better than peak ETH?
 
I was looking at the table and legit can't believe we only scored 11 goals ? We have the worst attack in top 12. Only teams from 13th and below scored less than us.

Spurs, for God's sake, scored double the goals we did and they had just sold their best striker.

The same striker that people said is missing for ETH right now.

Honestly, the excuses need to end.

He's been a complete failure since that Carabao Cup final. 36 games played since then and our GD is +2. Horrific.
 
11 goals scored this season. Aston Villa have scored double that. Wolves have scored more goals. Chelsea without a striker have scored more goals.

1 more goal than Everton and only 2 more than Luton.

This is dire stuff.
Now now.. don't you know that every manager will need 5 seasons and 1 billion spending to score more than everton and luton?
 
On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."

He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball? :wenger:
This is absolutely damning. He was what those of us who wanted him here for, represented in terms of football played and aggression in play as well as supposedly being an excellent coach.

The job is too big for him if he's abandoned his own principles.

He has no ideas outside of his principles, too, so he's shooting himself in the foot.
 
And at least some of our previous failed managers could either scrub wins against the top sides through solid defending and counter punching, or build teams that could style on the weaker teams and score goals for fun (best seasons of Jose and Ole)

Under ETH, how many games have we played well against top or top half sides, home or away? Almost none. How many times have we scored 3 or more goals in a comfortable win? Almost none.

He has to go and we can still save our season. It's not acceptable that we have spent half a billion and have no idea or whatsoever how to play basic football.

At least all the "anti football coach" were good at defending and counter attack. But ETH can't even coach defend, midfield or attack. We are not even good in any one department.

Questionable big signing Antony, Mount, Casemeiro, Hojlund even Martinez because of his height in PL.

Bizarre loans Weghorst. Amrabat and Reguillion looks more and more like average players.

What is he good at apart from throwing half a billion down the drain?
 
You’re clearly saying that his best work is recruitment, which is in my opinion where his best work has lay at Southampton and spurs too. But that doesn’t mean he’s right as a DoF. Yet to see evidence of structure building etc: Ashworth is the best around in my opinion

Be absolutely staggered if Ashworth leaves Newcastle when they are going places with insane investment too,Erik is looking more like a De Boer than peak Van Gaal
 
Anyone picking Maguire and Evans over Varane is asking to get sacked

Honestly, there is no defending him playing Evans over Varane for tactical reasons.

None whatsoever. It's a sackable offense.

Evans 8 years ago wasn't good enough and yet our manager preferred him over Varane in a Manchester Derby when Evans is pretty much cooked now.

Incredible really.
 
I'd sack him tomorrow, but Murtough being in charge of his successor worries me greatly. He could hire another dud, but maybe he'll get lucky too.

If Ratcliffe gains control soon, he should sack him immediately and bring in someone else.
Interim. It doesn't have to be the man.
 
On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."

He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball? :wenger:

What @Theonas said regarding him is spot on then.
 
I'd sack him tomorrow, but Murtough being in charge of his successor worries me greatly. He could hire another dud, but maybe he'll get lucky too.

If Ratcliffe gains control soon, he should sack him immediately and bring in someone else.

Yeah there has to be a change at recruitment level first,I guess the question is would Ratcliffe be ruthless enough to make a change so early in his time at Utd. Will he adopt that approach I need time to judge Erik before making a decision
 
It seems to me ETH just cant handle big star players. First Ronaldo, then De Gea, now it slowly turns to Varane and Casemiro.
 
Thats the thing -- most people like to compare managers -- XXX current manager against the last few months of the previous manager (which would obviously be crap or they wouldn't be sacked).

The true comparison is when you compare the ceiling or the best of the managers. ETH's best against XXX Manager's best. Otherwise, it is a pointless discussion that as an inevitable conclusion.

Was peak Jose or Ole better than peak ETH?

A lot of it's relative to expectations as well.

With Jose the expectations were sky high. Much much higher than ETH has had to deal with. Losing to Sevilla in the CL was 10 nails in the coffin for Jose. Water off a ducks back for Ole and ETH.

Mourinho's best team would have kicked the current lot off the pitch, even during our best period under Erik. But same as this one, the squad was built on a bad foundation with past-it players and dodgy characters.
 
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A lot of it's relative to expectations as well.

With Jose the expectations were sky high. Much much higher than ETH has had to deal with. Losing to Sevilla in the CL was 10 nails in the coffin for Jose. Water off a ducks back for Ole and ETH.

Mourinho's best team would have kicked the current lot off the pitch, even during our best period under Erik. But same as this one, the squad was built on a bad foundations with past-it players and dodgy characters.
Wasn't that because of his own pedigree? Losing to Sevilla wasn't the nail in the coffin it was his melting down in the press conference and how bottling in the CL was our heritage... Of course the football was dire as well, so just like lvg it was a factor and people were losing patience.
 
Honestly, there is no defending him playing Evans over Varane for tactical reasons.

None whatsoever. It's a sackable offense.

Evans 8 years ago wasn't good enough and yet our manager preferred him over Varane in a Manchester Derby when Evans is pretty much cooked now.

Incredible really.
Well, are you genuinely believing playing Varane rather than Evans could save us from this game?
 
We could play 500 mins yesterday and we wouldnt have score a single fecking goal. Guy is clueless. Is his attacking instruction is just "try some random play boys" ???
 
What @Theonas said regarding him is spot on then.
Very rarely do we come across something actually interesting and revelatory from these coaches but if the quotes on @Kevin 's post are true, this really answers a lot of questions!

There is absolutely no way that EtH cannot coach a team to play better than we've been. Where is this brief coming from that he has to stick to United's DNA? If there is anything good about the Glazers is that they never seem to care enough to interfere about anything football related so why does he feel this need? Or maybe he is talking about the profile of players we have and more importantly, produce? It's true that the way Ajax play requires the enture club to be geared that way from top to bottom and there is no way he can do that alone here. But if that's the case, why was he brought in in the first place?

My best guess at this point is that he is trying to bring some of his ideas from his time at Bayern and Ajax and mix it with some of Klopp's ideas which are admittedly closer to United's DNA with the obvious emphasis on tempo and speed of transitions, the result being some sort of Frankenstein monster before our eyes. He is basically not doing what got him the reputation he built at Ajax because 1) the club lacks the structure and 2) he is struggling to evolve as a coach under the pressure that comes with the job. Hard to know who to blame really but it's a depressing state of affairs.
 
On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."

He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball? :wenger:

Wasn't this guy hired because he supposedly had a great interview in which he chastised the direction of the club and highlighted how he'd move us forward and how he wanted us to play? If that's not the case, then what's the point of him?

He was the one supposed to get us playing modern football :lol:
 
Well, are you genuinely believing playing Varane rather than Evans could save us from this game?

No, but there's absolutely no reason Evans should ever play ahead of Varane in an important game if the latter is fit.
 
Echoes my thoughts



It blames the players too much for the failings of the manager. Comfortable 4-0 wins are rare under Ten Hag. We make hard work of every single win we get. No real evidence of a good high press after >1y of him coaching it. No real evidence that we can build up confidently if a team decides to press us. No real evidence that we can break a team down if they decide to sit in a 5-3-2 low block.

The only consistent thing I've seen is the ability to counter attack on transitions and a decent mid block against mid table sides. I will say though that you can do a lot worse than a decent mid block + offensive transition as a top four contender.

My best guess at this point is that he is trying to bring some of his ideas from his time at Bayern and Ajax and mix it with some of Klopp's ideas which are admittedly closer to United's DNA with the obvious emphasis on tempo and speed of transitions, the result being some sort of Frankenstein monster before our eyes. He is basically not doing what got him the reputation he built at Ajax because 1) the club lacks the structure and 2) he is struggling to evolve as a coach under the pressure that comes with the job. Hard to know who to blame really but it's a depressing state of affairs.

I agree with this assessment, albeit with too much influence over player signings.
 
This is absolutely damning. He was what those of us who wanted him here for, represented in terms of football played and aggression in play as well as supposedly being an excellent coach.

The job is too big for him if he's abandoned his own principles.

He has no ideas outside of his principles, too, so he's shooting himself in the foot.

I agree that this is huge news. We signed EtH because we wanted to play like his successful Ajax. Now we find he has abandoned that? So it wasn't that we were trying to play like Ajax but were failing to do so? What good is he then? Next.
 
I can’t remember a man more hyped on the cafe than this guy. 99% of you never watched the Dutch league but were adamant he was the second coming of Pep.

Might as well give him till the end of the season.
 
EtH should decide what we are. If we are a counter attacking team, then bloody set us up with 3 fast attackers and bomb the long balls forward. If we see are passing team, then get your wingers to go down to the byline and stretch the defence. I hate inverted wingers. That was never the way United played and seems to narrow the attack too much.
 
Doing an impressively bad job this season. Drastically wrong in pretty much every decision and absolutely terrible coaching by the looks of it. He's imploded at this point unfortunately and I'm not sure it's salvageable anymore.
 
On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."

He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball? :wenger:

If those quotes are real that is fecking damning. Very Ole-esque.

'We have to play tHe uNiTeD wAY and no other way will do'. Oh and by the way that now means we only ever play as the underdogs and rely on counter attacks and individual brilliance.

You cant spend £100m on Martinez and Onana for ball retention and build up, but then only play lump-it up the pitch football with Bruno and Rashford.
 
On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."

He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball? :wenger:
It pains me to say but this is why he won’t work at United. We needed someone to come in and mutate this supposed DNA of ours into something more modern. I genuinely thought we were finally getting a manager whose vision was to see us dominate the ball like Ajax, like Bayern, City etc and that the vision came first. Instead it seems he’s someone who has accepted us for what we are and is trying to make the most out of that where’s the truth is that what we have / are is nowhere remotely near what is needed achieve big things.
 
If those quotes are real that is fecking damning. Very Ole-esque.

'We have to play tHe uNiTeD wAY and no other way will do'. Oh and by the way that now means we only ever play as the underdogs and rely on counter attacks and individual brilliance.

You cant spend £100m on Martinez and Onana for ball retention and build up, but then only play lump-it up the pitch football with Bruno and Rashford.
It's not necessarily Ole-esque. Ole knew nothing else and could do nothing else. He just tried to do what Fergie did except he lacked the aura, charisma, leadership and much more. It's unclear to me why EtH says that, he seems to imply that it's about the players' profile and add the "also it's not in United DNA". It doesn't sound to me that he is married to the romance of it, more so that he feels it's the best we can do with the "material" as he puts it, we have.
 
ETH did a brilliant job last season and got us a trophy, along with another final. Yes, there have been big mistakes in recruitment this year but also look at the incredible injuries.

I would much rather give him full backing this year, than start the circus again. Besides, until the top reds decide to boycott the games and force the greedy glazers out, nothing will change.

A new manager will bring new churn and same old cycle.

We should give him this year to turn things around and I'm confident he will.
 
EtH should decide what we are. If we are a counter attacking team, then bloody set us up with 3 fast attackers and bomb the long balls forward. If we see are passing team, then get your wingers to go down to the byline and stretch the defence. I hate inverted wingers. That was never the way United played and seems to narrow the attack too much.
It's not necessarily Ole-esque. Ole knew nothing else and could do nothing else. He just tried to do what Fergie did except he lacked the aura, charisma, leadership and much more. It's unclear to me why EtH says that, he seems to imply that it's about the players' profile and add the "also it's not in United DNA". It doesn't sound to me that he is married to the romance of it, more so that he feels it's the best we can do with the "material" as he puts it, we have.
These combined posts point to the major issue with him abandoning his own principles: he doesn't know how to play more traditional styles of football and he doesn't have the in-game tactical nous to gloss that over.

He sets us up poorly in initial lineups, personnel and then compounds mistakes with subs and timing, either or. He literally cannot afford to abandon his principles when he is so deficient in other areas of coaching. He is not the eclectic sort who passes from one set of principles to another seamlessly, and this really isn't the club or time to try to be. Add that nuance along the way, but drill home your core principles and get the system up and running first.

He is getting chastised heavily for the above because we've seen exactly how other managers have executed in a tiny framing window of a single preseason. Villa and Spurs are flying, and it's not all about where they end up in the final table, but rather that to a man, those teams are seamless in executing what's being asked of them. They are their coaches' teams. Already. All this whilst we are into a second season with less identity than the first. It's been a dreadful year for ten Hag since March.

About marrying styles. You have to have a real grasp of the league to do that. I don't see evidence that ten Hag has that. We factually struggle against relegation fodder.
 
ETH did a brilliant job last season and got us a trophy, along with another final. Yes, there have been big mistakes in recruitment this year but also look at the incredible injuries.

I would much rather give him full backing this year, than start the circus again. Besides, until the top reds decide to boycott the games and force the greedy glazers out, nothing will change.

A new manager will bring new churn and same old cycle.

We should give him this year to turn things around and I'm confident he will.
Unfortunately I don’t think boycotting games will work anyway simply because the Glazers don’t care - they are so far away from it all. What we need is for the American reds to disrupt their NFL games and take the protests there.
 
It's not necessarily Ole-esque. Ole knew nothing else and could do nothing else. He just tried to do what Fergie did except he lacked the aura, charisma, leadership and much more. It's unclear to me why EtH says that, he seems to imply that it's about the players' profile and add the "also it's not in United DNA". It doesn't sound to me that he is married to the romance of it, more so that he feels it's the best we can do with the "material" as he puts it, we have.

Thats fair enough but he actually got enough sway in the transfer market to change it If he really wanted to but he seemed to have taken easy way out . I had my concerns about him once Fernandes became Unstoppable for him and made captain that it was matter of time before it all comes unstuck.
 
Klopp last year was almost the same as us this year. We are destructed any rhythm of game plan and pattern due to the injuries and out of the top 4 fight in the early season. Then Liverpool still backed their manager and invest him Gakpo in winter. With the injuries gradually back, Liverpool level up their games and savaged a Europa league ticket. Then they continued trust the manager and overhaul the whole midfield for Klopp in the summer. Then you see the results now.

I trust ETH to turn it around, but the premise is that the whole club also think it this way and back him through the difficult time and help him fix the squad.
 
Klopp is/was a manager with a proven track record even before he touched down in Liverpool. His team struggling last season - after all he's already accomplished with them - is not the same as- ah nevermind

These "look at Klopp" posts don't apply to Ten Hag
 
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