People are allowing hope to cloud facts. Was he even that great at Monaco in the end?
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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We are a team in transition. We need time. The club is being patient. I think we are building a team for the future with young players again. Mainoo, Hannibal, Garnacho, Rasmus, Diallo, Dalot, etc will need gelling time around Obama, Rashford, Licha, Mount and Shaw. Senior players will move on in a few years time, Bruno included. I think that’s why we keep taking in loanees as well. I am relatively happy if we stay competitive for top four/five in the next few years as we build a stronger squad around those youngsters and better new players, even if it means losses like today.
Not really. His best track record is Southampton and spurs where he was head of recruitment not DoF
fecking hell. "4-5 years to let a manager build the team he wants". United fans scare me
Defence is obviously struggling. With AWB, Martinez and Shaw yet to come back and we've won some games recently (as unconvincing as it was) so ten Hag will be given more time. However if performances and results don't improve I wouldn't be surprised if he's gone around January.
Think we've all identified the problem by now - yes manager's tactics aren't working and he's to blame but whole atmosphere and culture around the club is not good and under every manager we witness same pattern of promising start and then everything going terribly wrong from 2nd/3rd season.
Think we've all identified the problem by now - yes manager's tactics aren't working and he's to blame but whole atmosphere and culture around the club is not good and under every manager we witness same pattern of promising start and then everything going terribly wrong from 2nd/3rd season.
11 goals scored this season. Aston Villa have scored double that. Wolves have scored more goals. Chelsea without a striker have scored more goals.
1 more goal than Everton and only 2 more than Luton.
This is dire stuff.
1 more goal than Everton and only 2 more than Luton.
This is dire stuff.
Sometimes it makes me wonder how some managers got to where they are when they don't even understand the simplest of things. For example, stop trying to put square pegs in round holes. Bruno is not a winger. He is a #10. Play him in the #10 or don't play him at all. Lindelof is a central defender. He is not a RB and he is certainly not a LB. If we didn't have a LB on the bench I'd understand. No excuse to leave a LB out. And Varane on the bench? WTF? And please, show us some sort of style of play. All we do is try and score individual goals.
Any manager would need a few years to change our squad into winners. It doesn’t have to be EtH, I don’t care, I just want us to stop sacking managers before they can have a meaningful effect on the long term prospects of the team. I also want the managers we have to play good football and win some fecking matches but it hasn’t happened much in the last 10 years. Burn the place down and start again. That’s basically what EtH is doing (as fast as he feasibly can). Like I say, it doesn’t have to be him but someone has to do it.
In his first season at Monaco he signed Disasi who is now at Chelsea, and Caio Henrique one of their best players right now. Whatever he's done there, must've impressed the leadership at Nice.
Not to mention the work he's done in the past for those clubs you mentioned, uncovering the likes of Sadio Mane and Dele Alli
Real would have been still at 9 UCLs if they kept giving 4-5 years to frauds
I don't know if it's wording but that's weird view. No one can guarantee for better outcome until they take office. However, in comparison to Murtough, Mitchell is more reputable in term of recruitment work with his time in different role at Southampton, Tottenham, Leipzig and Redbull network before getting the role at Monaco with some good and some bad. Moyes was the main influence for transfer dealing at Everton, whereas Murtough seems just to be there to stand in for the office, paperwork at Everton and for us, expecting manager to do the heavy lifting in term of identifying transfer target. If anything, Murtough is less experienced than Mitchell with a structure that dealing with data based recruitment since Murtough experience was based off old school model, and he's learning on the job with us. Whereas Mitchell experienced it.
Highly likely Mitchell will do it differently. So the question is whether people think it's worth to stick it with Murtough and his current underlings, or take chance to truly do it entirely different. Even if he doesn't have great vision, basic short term identifying transfer target is whole lot better than our current state of recruitment where the manager has too much say when his view on players is too narrow.
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Jose bought Fred, James was sold for a profit. I will give you Maguire but he was better value for 80M than Antony has turned out to be.
There was a moment, we are getting slaughtered on the pitch and its 2-0 yet Pep is still screaming at his players to run and make the right decisions. Camera cuts to ETH and he is just sitting there looking like a lost child. Ive seen that way too often in the last 4 years with him and Ole.
I can’t take a post seriously that refers to the prime examples of malpractice that were the Antony & Mount transfers as ‘a drop in the ocean’.
EtH is certainly not only to blame but the narrative gathering pace that he is collateral damage after £400mil of transfers that have his name all over them is just as bad as blaming him entirely.
After what 16 months in charge it’s impossible the squad would fully reflect his vision but it shouldn’t be this bad & he has some responsibility for that.
Edit: Just re-read it. Casemiro, Amrabat, Eriksen & Evan’s are all signings under EtH, he’s having to replace his own dross. . .
Anyone that watched MK Dons could have told you that Dele Ali was destined for a higher level.
does it matter who monacos best player is? It’s like giving murtough credit for signing Bruno
He looked defeated today. First time I’ve thought that of ETH
Excuses excuses. He literally coached Antony and half our signings. Now are you saying he sat in meetings saying don't buy Antony he's sht and Arnold and the recruitment team just went shut up Haagy, we have no one else. He's the bestest. Why do people believe this? Ten Haag has literally said the decision is between him and Arnold. Who do you think was pushing for Antony? Arnold or Ten Haag?
This is where I have serious problems with ETH a number of times. We know that there are things that are not under his control, BUT he must control whatever he CAN actually control. There is simply no point in trying to make things more complicated than they already are.
I'm mad at a lot of things about Bruno this season, but I have certainly not seen him play in his favorite number 10 position for a long stretch of time. Everyone and their mother know that Bruno is totally useless on the right wing.
Starting Lindelof at LB when we had Reguilon more than capable of starting the match... that is also stupid.
Varane not starting this match is also criminal. I know that he didn't look up to speed against Copenhagen, but this was still our biggest home match of the whole campaign.
Rashford being perenially shit in his favorite LW position... just take the motherfecker off!
I want ETH to succeed, but small details like those are making it very difficult for any sane and sound Manchester United supporter to rally behind him. If he can't control the details that are within his range of control, then it won't be long before a sacking takes place. Favoritism has to stop too, plain and simple.
I think it does, they paid less than 10m for a left back who couldn't break into Atletico, and he was so good that Barca wanted him. That at least tells me he knows what he's doing. I don't need him to find the next Mbappe. The guy is a footballing man with a wealth of experience under his belt.
Yeh, and both managers are also on record claiming that 'the players are not doing what I asked'
You’re clearly saying that his best work is recruitment, which is in my opinion where his best work has lay at Southampton and spurs too. But that doesn’t mean he’s right as a DoF. Yet to see evidence of structure building etc: Ashworth is the best around in my opinion
Did he ever explain why Antony was only used for 5 minutes + overtime?
I'm not saying he didn't suggest Antony. I'm saying that the club scouting network should be better than just asking the first-team coach for suggestions.
DoF recruits, first-team coach trains. We're not in the 90s anymore: sadly, our club infrastructure is.
I genuinely dont think he has the tools to get us where we want to go anymore.
this Is horrific. Why is Ten Hag not sacked yet? Worse points and worse goal difference yet he's not sacked?! Standards on the floor..
terrible football and spent £400M to boot..
Brother, elite football teams sack underperforming managers. Look at Bayern as a recent example. The whole notion of sticking by managers - as if they're going to evolve like pokemons - is the outlier, not the norm. I feel United fans' perspective on this is totally cooked because Ferguson was here for so long.
Letting an underperforming manager stick around for 4-5 years to build his own team - especially when you have readily available evidence you can point to of very questionable decisions of players he wanted to bring/brought in - is more likely to cause irreparable damage than otherwise.
Can you imagine losing 7-0 to Barca at Real? He would have been dragged to The Hague, the fact he was able to ride that out as easily as he did shows how different - to its detriment - fans attitudes here are.
He looks like he's just getting started over there. I'd be very surprised if he came over after just a year.
Not this again.. Why is it only us that has to rebuild over years when other teams do it months.
EtH is the type of manager who builds from the ground up. Top to bottom. I don't think he can turn United around since there is no acceptance of the effort and destruction needed for such a change as the need to keep winning is relentless. Probably can do it at a lower league, but not United. We need those managers who can fix engines while they are still running.
Modern football's left our fanbase behind.
I agree to an extent. I just can't see the club doing what it should it getting rid of players that don't fit the manager's style. He pretty much said he wants us to be a devastating transition team- Why is that? To me it sounds like he can't get rid of players like Bruno, Rashford etc. and has decided to make the best of it and embrace a style not too dissimilar to Ole or even Jose. It's clearly not working though. It doesn't excuse some of his really odd signings though.
Any manager worth his salt should be able to positively tinker exisiting set-ups and not need to start from the ground up. ETH has a lot to answer for. I don’t think he will last till December
the problem with that is Casemiro is literally the only player who can play as a DM in the squad. It was such a stupid idea to spend that amount of money on a player of that age
Weve tried that, we have tried every sort of manager going since fergie left, and they have all been backed with insane amounts of money.
Sack him and then what's next? Can anyone on this forum seriously believe that the people in charge will hire the right person if we do? Make an argument that will convince anyone that they would. There is no evidence that if they did, that they would hire the right person to change anything. The notion they would is completely ludicrous. I'm not saying he shouldn't be absolved of any blame for our current predicament either. It's just the fact that the whole club is completely dysfunctional and toxic that even suggesting a novice like De Zerbi could waltz in here and make us better is fantasy. It's not happening. Stop deluding yourselves. The club has zero direction in terms of been setup to win trophies. We function like a punch drunk heavyweight that's on its last legs. Zero leadership. Absent owners who only want to drain the life and soul out of the club. Posters should literally wake up and smell the coffee. We will be stuck in this never ending cycle of shite till the Glazers fcuk off and leave professionals run the club. It couldn't be anymore obvious what the problem we have is.
Holy feck, is that a real quote!On the dutch paper site AD, there are quotes from Ten Hag talking to VIAPLAY saying we will never play like how he played at ajax, that's not why he came here. "The way we played at AJAX, you won't ever see that here." "The player material decides how we play. That's why I can not let this team play the way I did at ajax. I have to, I can't play the same way here. It's also not in the DNA of Manchester United. Ajax football is very specific, here we have to play more direct. We have the type of players for that."
He speaks like at United we do not accept or want Ajax type of football and he is forced to play a different brand... I'm sure many on the caf were dreaming of our team playing like his Ajax team and that it was a big reason many wanted him here for... Is this shit football and his player acquirement strategy just a confused Ten Hag thinking we want hoofball?
if true that deserves it's own thread and is exactly what i was worried about when he started going on about playing transitional football ! This is one of the huge problems of modern United in a nutshell.Years ago Jose apparently wrote a letter to United saying his brand of football was not antithetical to United's traditions and Ole kept banging on about "the United way" and "DNA". Why do managers feel they have to do this and not implement their own vision? Klopp had NOTHING to do with Liverpool's history, and Pep had nothing to do with City; they've implemented their own styles, made their own teams and have been a success. Why does it feel like managers here are chained to our history? Only LVG tried to do things his way but that was just one manager (not helped by Scholes and Neville constantly saying how they hated 'tippy tappy crap").
The player material comment is also really interesting. The club isn't going to sanction the sales of players like Bruno, Rashford etc. so I guess he feels he has to make the best of what he has. The lack of direction for many years has fecked us over big time and it won't get any better unless we solve this issue.
Sadly, if that quote is true then he's not going to succeed here. It's over. It really is
This is just cope.
Maguire and McTominay refusing to leave doesn't change anything. Sancho? Pretty much all managers have to deal with the odd player acting out, and he's not even a good/important player. Martial and Rashford refusing to run? Then, I don't know, do your job as manager and bench them if they don't do as instructed. I don't even know why Martial was mentioned as he can't even stay fit anyway. Rashford isn't going to suddenly change by making him undroppable.
The last point is the funniest. Excusing him because he needs to replace ageing players, and 4/5 of his examples were players ten Hag signed himself within the past year. And selling McTominay and Maguire was going to magically change our fortunes when our transfers and general squad planning is as amateurish as this?
11 goals in 10 games and fecking leaky defence. Make Moyes, LVG and Jose who are known as "anti football coach" look like Pep.
they are the most well run top club. United is the polar opposite. Yet they still made mistake.
Nagelmann still had good UCL run. Tuchel won bundesliga but it was more of a fluke than anything.
They don't need top manager to win Bundes, United need top manager to stay in top 4....Even ETH could win bundesliga with Buyern
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