Good post. Fully agree.feck the "big club like" mentality. That dramatic craving to get back in the CL and throw aside any strategy and long term thinking to rush back in there is what tricks us into spending big on stop gap players time and time again. Just be patient, build properly, accept it'll take time and a thorough rebuild of SMART purchases.
And we absolutely shouldn't touch ten hag now. Because the people who will be making these decisions are literally about to change. It would be a dumb feck move to change Ten Hag, hire a manager and then change the whole sporting direction of the club with Ratcliffe, whatever sporting director comes in, and so on. It'd be chaotically stupid. We know that Ratcliffe will likely take over soon. He'll have his plans. Hopefully he implements a proper forward thinking structure. Hopefully they are committed to a long term rebuild. Because it sure as feck will not happen over night or just with a few signings.
This is a situation that will take a few years to sort out. We'll need to look at replacing Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, possibly Shaw, Amrabat isn't even signed but he is 27. Our RW's are pathetic and both need replacing. Sure some of these players can be good squad players. Some might last longer as starters than their age suggests. But we have a lot to do with the squad, we have a ton to do with our system, we have a ton do above the manager. That all takes time. There's no use in keep trying to put band aids and cover things up. Commit to the long term rebuild. Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad, Mainoo, Martinez... these guys are the future of our squad. They are the players who we should build towards being the spine of the next big team. Accept it will be a multi year project but build a side that will develop as a group and peak in a few years. Because yes, this year is tragic and garbage and over already from any achievement POV. Maybe Ten Hag can pull it together in the 2nd half. Maybe when Ratcliffe takes over and re-aligns us, Ten Hag is still the guy. But the system, the way we play, is more than 1 season away from being something that is capable of progressing us to where we want to be, especially compared to other top teams in the prem.
This is the exact mindset that is part of what got us to where we are. Acting as if success is nothing but fate or luck. Just listen to the intricacies some football coaches go into to get the best out of their squads. The most successful club have longterm strategies, have their managers, recruitment and academies work together to maximize the output. But sure, just roll the fecking dice every year. There is the 0.0000001% chance that we stumble upon the bestest manager who comes in, clicks with all the players and brings in a system where all players magically flourish in. Thats insane.They’ll get it right sooner or later based on pure luck if nothing else, but you have to create your luck by giving someone else a chance instead of sticking with someone that definitely can’t do it.
Only a guessing game but probably he considers Rashford and Bruno gamechangers, which isn't too outlandish if we are being honest. And maybe he thinks it makes more sense to play them into form than to just hope to force a positive reaction from benching them. Not like the potential replacements fill you with endless optimism. (And thats not me agreeing with it, just trying to take another perspective)Those who still believe in him, could you please answer why do Rashford and Bruno keep starting games, no matter the number of terrible games they can play consistently ?
Or even simpler, why is Bruno still on set pieces duty ?
Writing off is probably a bit far fetched but you act as if the chance is pretty good to bring in a manager who manages something during the season what another manager didn't do in more or less two preseasons and one full season. ETH isn't the only issue, the players are as well. And they will still be, even if ETH is gone. So the chances of us getting something out of this season are slim (knowing what we know at the 29th of October) but they weren't that much better at the start of the season anyway. And no other manager will be able to implement a working pressing game (knowing that there simply is nothing to build on in our team) not even speaking from a very productive possession game with decent chance creation. Another manager will most like go for a transitional approach as well, because it is the easiest to do. Worst case is we get another Ole, make him interim are endlessly happy in the honeymoon phase only to make it permanent and end up back in 2020.That's not incorrect in terms of timescale and reasoning, but as I said, big clubs do what they can to keep morale high and tank as little of any given season as possible. Even if you don't get a permanent employment, you get a caretaker and try to salvage whatever you can from the season whilst actively preparing for what you've talked about with the coach identified to take on the role.
The if in your scenario is ten Hag possibly turning things around, but what if the if is him torpedoing into a negative cycle? That's even more issues to fix with a squad more depleted and broken than it is now.
Much to my disappointment as someone who really thought we'd found our guy, ten Hag is showing way too many deficiencies: tactics; in-game management; personnel; understanding the capabilities of his own squad and a serious inability to adapt. I don't believe he has it in him to turn this around because he's showing nothing to even latch onto and believe in. If he was I'd think time and patience might turn the entire thing around, eventually. But there is nothing there, for me - is he identifiably going to blood and/or use any players we'd pin our hopes on in the future, or is just going to be manic run of save my job players. Is there anything he exces at that can be baton pass to the next person in charge? It doesn't look like it.
Writing off whole seasons in early November just doesn't sit well with me - that's in relation to persisting if something is seriously wrong.
We are far worse than City, with a makeshift defence, so them scoring 1 goal from a penalty and us having multiple counter attacks was definitely a best case scenario. We aren't going to control the game against City in our current state. The ridiculous thing is him saying that and then making a completely unnecessary change in the midfield that had us concede 3 mins into the second half, and look terrible.I dont understand his post match comments: How can he claim that the game plan was very good and we played very well in the first half? The ruthless attitude of last season has made way for self preservation it seems. Picking Bruno and Rashford, not starting Garnacho, playing Lindelof at LB, starting McT & Evans, EtH is losing it.
I am surprised by the contrast from last season. Last season he was very upfront and said things as it is but now he has just been smoking weed in press conference.I get taking a softer approach after just getting our bums rammed in our own backyard but those quotes don't help him. Can only hope he is much more serious behind closed doors
What's a horrible idea?Horrible idea. It should not be a manager's job to build a team. That's what a DOF and a football operations department is supposed to do.
Hes only talking about the first half in those quotes isn't heI get taking a softer approach after just getting our bums rammed in our own backyard but those quotes don't help him. Can only hope he is much more serious behind closed doors
At the end of last season you were all singing his praises, 10 games later with the worst injury record I can ever remember in 50 years of supporting United, were we have barely been able to field the same team 2 weeks in a row and your calling for his head it beggars belief.
Thank god we had genuine fans and no social media in the mid 80s or you lot would have has Sir Alex sacked before he went on to be come the greatest manager this or any club has ever seen, those early years where no walk in the park some season we were awful, 1988-89 we finished 11th, wining just 2 of our last 11 games, the following season 1989-90 we finished 13th winning just 13 games all season that despite bringing in 8 new signings at the start of the season, including Irwin, Ince, Pallister, Webb an Phelan to Join Bruce, Hughes, and McClair and who joined the previous season ok we won the cup but the performances were dire, in 1990-91 season we finished 6th.
That same year Sir Alex was probably the luckiest man alive, as United drew Pecsi Mecsek, Wrexham, Montpellier, and Legia Warsaw (that was my first European away game as English clubs had been banned from European competition following the Heysel stadium disaster) in the Cup Winners Cup they made it to the final against Barcelona, a poor game remembered for an unbelievable goal from Mark Hughes which saw United emerge victorious against a 10 man Barcelona side.
The following season they went on to finish 2nd in the league however that was Sir Alex's 5th season in charge without a league title.
The 1992-93 season Sir Alex's 6th season finally saw United win the Premier League title, could you imagine the uproar today if United finished in the bottom half of the table two years in succession.
I think he's trying to be careful not to be too hard on the players, they're clearly mentally fragile. I don't believe for a second he thinks this was a good performance. But he's in a difficult position now: if he's too honest about our shite performances he may lose the dressing room which will inevitably lose him his job, and if he's not he'll be seen by the social media brigade as deluded.
He's just trying to grind out results for now and survive until he gets his starters back (Licha, Shaw, AWB, Malacia, Varane, Casemiro).
And they don’t “wonder” how the next manager will solve everything, they simply state with conviction that he will, just by being “better”.Let me guess. He can walk today for all I care but you know you will be wanting the next manager sacked as well while wondering how the next manager after that will solve everything.
You may be right, although it depends on how you define 'peak'. In purely quantitative terms (fan-base, avenues for making more money from online broadcast, 'experience' channels and tie-ins and VR, de facto super league, and 'high-end' in-person stadium fan experience for high-paying guests or cash-rich ardent fans), there are a number of very wealthy people betting that the bubble can expand another 3/4 x before it bursts.We’re well past the peak of football. And nobody will be romanticising City in 20 years time. There is literally nothing that captures the imagination with them.
Can’t say I was confident before I saw the team sheet.I can’t get my head around Bruno on the right wing. He’s tried it numerous times and every time it’s like we’re playing with 10 men it’s absolutely pointless and doesn’t work. He’s shit on the right and the player covering his position is usually shit as well.
Absolutely baffling in all honesty, the minute that team was announced I’m pretty sure 95% of fans knew we’d lost.
This decision has had zero impact in the positive.I’m still Ten Hag in (mainly because changing manager right now will achieve nothing, and the squad is packed with his profile of players thanks to Murtough) but that Mount sub was appalling and wrecked any chance of us getting anything from the game.
His Bruno captaincy choice is also looking like a dreadful decision now too. Should have at least waited til Maguire was sold rather than create more chaos and drama in and around the club.
Meekly referencing the VAR decision is disappointing too, he needs to take a lesson from Klopp.
Can we be worse? When Ten Hag came in it was better. By that logic never changing the manager should be the best course of action always.And they don’t “wonder” how the next manager will solve everything, they simply state with conviction that he will, just by being “better”.
Can’t say I was confident before I saw the team sheet.
It was a cowardly Mourinho hoofball team selection. At home.It’s always going to be tough because City are a top side but they aren’t playing well and have lost the last 2 away games. It was clear the only chance of a result was counter attack and he completely killed that with the team he chose. Baffling selection, must be one of the worst starting 11’s we’ve ever fielded in a PL derby match
You are playing the best team in the world. You have contained them, to a point.
So what do you do at half time? You bring off your defensive midfielder and bring on Scott McTominay, as man who has 6 years of experience in being absolutely useless in the holding midfield role. 5 mins later, we conced because McTominay cant be fecked tracking a man.
Why does he think that McTominay can suddenly play in this advanced 8 / 10 role? He scored a couple of scrappy goals, so now Ten Hag thinks he is the Scottish Frank Lampard.
And what they hell is he doing starting Lindelof at LB? If Region can play, play him, even if he doesn't have 90 mins in his legs.
After 86 mins, he subs Eriksen. You could see he was blowing.
What had Hannibal done wrong? He has been good in every game he has played. Just the kind of player we need in midfield. He should have been used to negate Silva or Rodri.
Ten Hag doesn't trust Anthony, the man he paid 80+ mil from at right wing. He doesn't want to start Mount. His signings.
Ten Hag looks lost.
And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI
Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)
ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.
And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?
Dead man walking and has been for some time. Let's see how long this shit show of a football clubs takes this time to realise it.
I reckon he'll be done by February:
10 games played
Won 5
Lost 5
11 GS
16 GA
He's 100% being sacked this season, I do hope he's able to change it but I can't see it. Injuries are relevant but the tactics and performances are substandard.
Add to that pushing for Mount then barely playing him, and completely alienating Maguire and then choosing him ahead of Varane.
It’s worryingly remiscent of when Ole was trying any old shit to see what would stick.
Next we’ll see Donny randomly back on the scene.
Don't know if we can even afford to sack him.Dead man walking and has been for some time. Let's see how long this shit show of a football clubs takes this time to realise it.
This is the worst excuse yet. People actually want to get rid of the previous players before Erik came?
Not willing or advocating it, but open to that idea.
Ole lost his job because of several transfer business, VDB, Varun, Sancho, and especially Ronaldo. The former few resulted in lost of squad improvement opportunities and the latter (Ronaldo) ruin the squad.
Under the Glazers’ ownership, the transfer business cannot fail so often for any manager to survive. Remember the constraints of three major signs in summer.
I think Potter is more likely to succeed given the same intolerance of transfer failures because Potter will create the foundation with more cost efficient players.
Because Maguire and Varane "are not good on the left". So he benched better defender for one who was 5th choice 2 weeks ago.Anyone picking Maguire and Evans over Varane is asking to get sacked
Don't know if we can even afford to sack him.
