Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It's getting to the point where he simply has to be brave, stop defending players who aren't performing and place trust in younger players who give everything they've got. Carry on like this and it will be hard to imagine he won't get the sack, even if there is no obvious alternative (most people would hate to see underperforming players getting their way yet again).

If he has it in him he really has got to be brave.
 
I get taking a softer approach after just getting our bums rammed in our own backyard but those quotes don't help him. Can only hope he is much more serious behind closed doors
 
feck the "big club like" mentality. That dramatic craving to get back in the CL and throw aside any strategy and long term thinking to rush back in there is what tricks us into spending big on stop gap players time and time again. Just be patient, build properly, accept it'll take time and a thorough rebuild of SMART purchases.

And we absolutely shouldn't touch ten hag now. Because the people who will be making these decisions are literally about to change. It would be a dumb feck move to change Ten Hag, hire a manager and then change the whole sporting direction of the club with Ratcliffe, whatever sporting director comes in, and so on. It'd be chaotically stupid. We know that Ratcliffe will likely take over soon. He'll have his plans. Hopefully he implements a proper forward thinking structure. Hopefully they are committed to a long term rebuild. Because it sure as feck will not happen over night or just with a few signings.

This is a situation that will take a few years to sort out. We'll need to look at replacing Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, possibly Shaw, Amrabat isn't even signed but he is 27. Our RW's are pathetic and both need replacing. Sure some of these players can be good squad players. Some might last longer as starters than their age suggests. But we have a lot to do with the squad, we have a ton to do with our system, we have a ton do above the manager. That all takes time. There's no use in keep trying to put band aids and cover things up. Commit to the long term rebuild. Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad, Mainoo, Martinez... these guys are the future of our squad. They are the players who we should build towards being the spine of the next big team. Accept it will be a multi year project but build a side that will develop as a group and peak in a few years. Because yes, this year is tragic and garbage and over already from any achievement POV. Maybe Ten Hag can pull it together in the 2nd half. Maybe when Ratcliffe takes over and re-aligns us, Ten Hag is still the guy. But the system, the way we play, is more than 1 season away from being something that is capable of progressing us to where we want to be, especially compared to other top teams in the prem.
Good post. Fully agree.

They’ll get it right sooner or later based on pure luck if nothing else, but you have to create your luck by giving someone else a chance instead of sticking with someone that definitely can’t do it.
This is the exact mindset that is part of what got us to where we are. Acting as if success is nothing but fate or luck. Just listen to the intricacies some football coaches go into to get the best out of their squads. The most successful club have longterm strategies, have their managers, recruitment and academies work together to maximize the output. But sure, just roll the fecking dice every year. There is the 0.0000001% chance that we stumble upon the bestest manager who comes in, clicks with all the players and brings in a system where all players magically flourish in. Thats insane.

ETH might not be the best solution, but acting as if we just have to reset again and again means that we haven't learned the lesson for 10 fecking years and not only that, we are seemingly too daft to even see what works for the successful teams these days.

Those who still believe in him, could you please answer why do Rashford and Bruno keep starting games, no matter the number of terrible games they can play consistently ?
Or even simpler, why is Bruno still on set pieces duty ?
Only a guessing game but probably he considers Rashford and Bruno gamechangers, which isn't too outlandish if we are being honest. And maybe he thinks it makes more sense to play them into form than to just hope to force a positive reaction from benching them. Not like the potential replacements fill you with endless optimism. (And thats not me agreeing with it, just trying to take another perspective)

That's not incorrect in terms of timescale and reasoning, but as I said, big clubs do what they can to keep morale high and tank as little of any given season as possible. Even if you don't get a permanent employment, you get a caretaker and try to salvage whatever you can from the season whilst actively preparing for what you've talked about with the coach identified to take on the role.

The if in your scenario is ten Hag possibly turning things around, but what if the if is him torpedoing into a negative cycle? That's even more issues to fix with a squad more depleted and broken than it is now.

Much to my disappointment as someone who really thought we'd found our guy, ten Hag is showing way too many deficiencies: tactics; in-game management; personnel; understanding the capabilities of his own squad and a serious inability to adapt. I don't believe he has it in him to turn this around because he's showing nothing to even latch onto and believe in. If he was I'd think time and patience might turn the entire thing around, eventually. But there is nothing there, for me - is he identifiably going to blood and/or use any players we'd pin our hopes on in the future, or is just going to be manic run of save my job players. Is there anything he exces at that can be baton pass to the next person in charge? It doesn't look like it.

Writing off whole seasons in early November just doesn't sit well with me - that's in relation to persisting if something is seriously wrong.
Writing off is probably a bit far fetched but you act as if the chance is pretty good to bring in a manager who manages something during the season what another manager didn't do in more or less two preseasons and one full season. ETH isn't the only issue, the players are as well. And they will still be, even if ETH is gone. So the chances of us getting something out of this season are slim (knowing what we know at the 29th of October) but they weren't that much better at the start of the season anyway. And no other manager will be able to implement a working pressing game (knowing that there simply is nothing to build on in our team) not even speaking from a very productive possession game with decent chance creation. Another manager will most like go for a transitional approach as well, because it is the easiest to do. Worst case is we get another Ole, make him interim are endlessly happy in the honeymoon phase only to make it permanent and end up back in 2020.

If ETH continues to disappoint the club should make use of the time until next summer to prepare for it. To be able to then bring in somebody who fits. But impulsive stuff in the middle of the season doesn't make sense. Again - not because ETH is so fantastic but because there is simply no indicator at all that they will make the right decision in terms of successor.

The one thing I hope for ETH is for him really sticking to his principles from now on. And that probably means putting Rash and Bruno in their spot. And be it only for a little while.
 
I can’t get my head around Bruno on the right wing. He’s tried it numerous times and every time it’s like we’re playing with 10 men it’s absolutely pointless and doesn’t work. He’s shit on the right and the player covering his position is usually shit as well.

Absolutely baffling in all honesty, the minute that team was announced I’m pretty sure 95% of fans knew we’d lost.
 
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I dont understand his post match comments: How can he claim that the game plan was very good and we played very well in the first half? The ruthless attitude of last season has made way for self preservation it seems. Picking Bruno and Rashford, not starting Garnacho, playing Lindelof at LB, starting McT & Evans, EtH is losing it.
We are far worse than City, with a makeshift defence, so them scoring 1 goal from a penalty and us having multiple counter attacks was definitely a best case scenario. We aren't going to control the game against City in our current state. The ridiculous thing is him saying that and then making a completely unnecessary change in the midfield that had us concede 3 mins into the second half, and look terrible.
 
I get taking a softer approach after just getting our bums rammed in our own backyard but those quotes don't help him. Can only hope he is much more serious behind closed doors
I am surprised by the contrast from last season. Last season he was very upfront and said things as it is but now he has just been smoking weed in press conference.

Don't know how much the whole sancho's drama has had an impact on him
 
Like a few before him, his downfall will be continuing to play players who are not good enough, bang out of form, or both, just because he seems to think they are undroppable and they earn a load of money.
Rashford has not had a decent game in months. Bruno has been utter wank for the same time and is even worse on the right wing. Lindleof is not a left back. Mctom is not a defensive midfielder.
We have plenty of aggression and legs who are constantly on the bench while these jokers get picked every week.
Sort it out ETH or you’ll be gone before Christmas
 
I’m still Ten Hag in (mainly because changing manager right now will achieve nothing, and the squad is packed with his profile of players thanks to Murtough) but that Mount sub was appalling and wrecked any chance of us getting anything from the game.

His Bruno captaincy choice is also looking like a dreadful decision now too. Should have at least waited til Maguire was sold rather than create more chaos and drama in and around the club.

Meekly referencing the VAR decision is disappointing too, he needs to take a lesson from Klopp.
 
I get taking a softer approach after just getting our bums rammed in our own backyard but those quotes don't help him. Can only hope he is much more serious behind closed doors
Hes only talking about the first half in those quotes isn't he
 
At the end of last season you were all singing his praises, 10 games later with the worst injury record I can ever remember in 50 years of supporting United, were we have barely been able to field the same team 2 weeks in a row and your calling for his head it beggars belief.

Thank god we had genuine fans and no social media in the mid 80s or you lot would have has Sir Alex sacked before he went on to be come the greatest manager this or any club has ever seen, those early years where no walk in the park some season we were awful, 1988-89 we finished 11th, wining just 2 of our last 11 games, the following season 1989-90 we finished 13th winning just 13 games all season that despite bringing in 8 new signings at the start of the season, including Irwin, Ince, Pallister, Webb an Phelan to Join Bruce, Hughes, and McClair and who joined the previous season ok we won the cup but the performances were dire, in 1990-91 season we finished 6th.

That same year Sir Alex was probably the luckiest man alive, as United drew Pecsi Mecsek, Wrexham, Montpellier, and Legia Warsaw (that was my first European away game as English clubs had been banned from European competition following the Heysel stadium disaster) in the Cup Winners Cup they made it to the final against Barcelona, a poor game remembered for an unbelievable goal from Mark Hughes which saw United emerge victorious against a 10 man Barcelona side.

The following season they went on to finish 2nd in the league however that was Sir Alex's 5th season in charge without a league title.

The 1992-93 season Sir Alex's 6th season finally saw United win the Premier League title, could you imagine the uproar today if United finished in the bottom half of the table two years in succession.

Stop... just, stop
 
I think he's trying to be careful not to be too hard on the players, they're clearly mentally fragile. I don't believe for a second he thinks this was a good performance. But he's in a difficult position now: if he's too honest about our shite performances he may lose the dressing room which will inevitably lose him his job, and if he's not he'll be seen by the social media brigade as deluded.

He's just trying to grind out results for now and survive until he gets his starters back (Licha, Shaw, AWB, Malacia, Varane, Casemiro).

Worked out well for all the other managers doing the same - pandering to these "stars".

Literally play Mejbri, Gore etc instead if the same weak shite we've seem the past 10 years, there's no risk, you play the proven fragile shite players, you lose your job (guaranteed) or you play dome different players who are unknown - 95% chance they do terrible and he gets sacked, buy at least the kids won't get infected by the current dross, and may actually be coachable.

Ground hog day really.
 
Let me guess. He can walk today for all I care but you know you will be wanting the next manager sacked as well while wondering how the next manager after that will solve everything.
And they don’t “wonder” how the next manager will solve everything, they simply state with conviction that he will, just by being “better”.
 
We’re well past the peak of football. And nobody will be romanticising City in 20 years time. There is literally nothing that captures the imagination with them.
You may be right, although it depends on how you define 'peak'. In purely quantitative terms (fan-base, avenues for making more money from online broadcast, 'experience' channels and tie-ins and VR, de facto super league, and 'high-end' in-person stadium fan experience for high-paying guests or cash-rich ardent fans), there are a number of very wealthy people betting that the bubble can expand another 3/4 x before it bursts.

I have to admit the 'joy' isn't as pure compared to pre-2004 and Roman take over, let alone pre -2008 (And City takeover, alongside, well, global economic crisis); but then again United were winning a lot back then, I was young, and a lot of new Issues have erupted all over the place beyond sport, so it might not just be the increasing hypercommodifying and air of cynicism around large parts of football that's the problem....
 
I can’t get my head around Bruno on the right wing. He’s tried it numerous times and every time it’s like we’re playing with 10 men it’s absolutely pointless and doesn’t work. He’s shit on the right and the player covering his position is usually shit as well.

Absolutely baffling in all honesty, the minute that team was announced I’m pretty sure 95% of fans knew we’d lost.
Can’t say I was confident before I saw the team sheet.
 
I’m still Ten Hag in (mainly because changing manager right now will achieve nothing, and the squad is packed with his profile of players thanks to Murtough) but that Mount sub was appalling and wrecked any chance of us getting anything from the game.

His Bruno captaincy choice is also looking like a dreadful decision now too. Should have at least waited til Maguire was sold rather than create more chaos and drama in and around the club.

Meekly referencing the VAR decision is disappointing too, he needs to take a lesson from Klopp.
This decision has had zero impact in the positive.
 
Anyone picking Maguire and Evans over Varane is asking to get sacked
 
And they don’t “wonder” how the next manager will solve everything, they simply state with conviction that he will, just by being “better”.
Can we be worse? When Ten Hag came in it was better. By that logic never changing the manager should be the best course of action always.
 
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You are playing the best team in the world. You have contained them, to a point.

So what do you do at half time? You bring off your defensive midfielder and bring on Scott McTominay, as man who has 6 years of experience in being absolutely useless in the holding midfield role. 5 mins later, we conced because McTominay cant be fecked tracking a man.

Why does he think that McTominay can suddenly play in this advanced 8 / 10 role? He scored a couple of scrappy goals, so now Ten Hag thinks he is the Scottish Frank Lampard.

And what they hell is he doing starting Lindelof at LB? If Region can play, play him, even if he doesn't have 90 mins in his legs.

After 86 mins, he subs Eriksen. You could see he was blowing.

What had Hannibal done wrong? He has been good in every game he has played. Just the kind of player we need in midfield. He should have been used to negate Silva or Rodri.

Ten Hag doesn't trust Anthony, the man he paid 80+ mil from at right wing. He doesn't want to start Mount. His signings.

Ten Hag looks lost.
 
Can’t say I was confident before I saw the team sheet.

It’s always going to be tough because City are a top side but they aren’t playing well and have lost the last 2 away games. It was clear the only chance of a result was counter attack and he completely killed that with the team he chose. Baffling selection, must be one of the worst starting 11’s we’ve ever fielded in a PL derby match
 
There are pros to Ten Haag but the things that are inexcusable are -

1) Style of football - Does anyone like this football? Its dull and boring. No top team plays like this. The only difference between Ten Haag and Ole is that Ten Haag presses high and Ole formed a low/mid block. Either way its win the ball and wack it to our quick forwards. Thats it. Thats the plan.
2) The recruitment is just dogsht. He has no excuses. Yeah laugh at buying Maguire for 80 mill but Antony is worse. How Ten Haag thought it was a genius plan to buy him I'll never know. Then add Mount. Buy a player for 55 mill give him the number 7 shirt and then realize you don't know where to play him. Ambrabat is sht. Onana was not needed. Casemiro past it. Hojlund is too young. Its so fkn obvious a 10 year old could tell you it wasn't a good idea. I think Ten Haag will end up wining shitest recruitment award and that takes some doing.
 
It’s always going to be tough because City are a top side but they aren’t playing well and have lost the last 2 away games. It was clear the only chance of a result was counter attack and he completely killed that with the team he chose. Baffling selection, must be one of the worst starting 11’s we’ve ever fielded in a PL derby match
It was a cowardly Mourinho hoofball team selection. At home.
 
You are playing the best team in the world. You have contained them, to a point.

So what do you do at half time? You bring off your defensive midfielder and bring on Scott McTominay, as man who has 6 years of experience in being absolutely useless in the holding midfield role. 5 mins later, we conced because McTominay cant be fecked tracking a man.

Why does he think that McTominay can suddenly play in this advanced 8 / 10 role? He scored a couple of scrappy goals, so now Ten Hag thinks he is the Scottish Frank Lampard.

And what they hell is he doing starting Lindelof at LB? If Region can play, play him, even if he doesn't have 90 mins in his legs.

After 86 mins, he subs Eriksen. You could see he was blowing.

What had Hannibal done wrong? He has been good in every game he has played. Just the kind of player we need in midfield. He should have been used to negate Silva or Rodri.

Ten Hag doesn't trust Anthony, the man he paid 80+ mil from at right wing. He doesn't want to start Mount. His signings.

Ten Hag looks lost.

Add to that pushing for Mount then barely playing him, and completely alienating Maguire and then choosing him ahead of Varane.

It’s worryingly remiscent of when Ole was trying any old shit to see what would stick.

Next we’ll see Donny randomly back on the scene.
 
Except Martinez, Shaw and Hojlund, the whole starting 11 needs replacing lets be honest.

Our “best” players which are Bruno and Rashford are shockingly inconsistent and until we fix that we won’t be a top team.
Trouble is with so many holes in the squad, we’ll never get around to replacing Bruno and Rashford.
 
Dead man walking and has been for some time. Let's see how long this shit show of a football clubs takes this time to realise it.
 
And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?

You would have an argument if the players ETH had signed were an upgrade on what was there before, but they are not.

He doesn't even trust Anthony to start after spending 80mil on him. Same for Mount. No one is forcing ETH to play McTominay.

Hojland is a project. He is nowhere near good enough at this level yet. You can see he would benefit from having wingers that would cross for him, but ETH prefers Rashford inverted.
 
It would be less concerning if these performances and results were isolated to this season, because of the injuries. But truth is we have been absolutely dreadful since the league cup win earlier in the year.
 
Dead man walking and has been for some time. Let's see how long this shit show of a football clubs takes this time to realise it.

I reckon he'll be done by February:

10 games played
Won 5
Lost 5
11 GS
16 GA

He's 100% being sacked this season, I do hope he's able to change it but I can't see it. Injuries are relevant but the tactics and performances are substandard.
 
We used to mock Liverpool for how many years since they had won the title. Wont be long now till we start getting close to their record on that.
 
I reckon he'll be done by February:

10 games played
Won 5
Lost 5
11 GS
16 GA

He's 100% being sacked this season, I do hope he's able to change it but I can't see it. Injuries are relevant but the tactics and performances are substandard.

I doubt anything will be done until the Ratcliffe minority crap is finally done and this seems to take for fecking ever.
 
Add to that pushing for Mount then barely playing him, and completely alienating Maguire and then choosing him ahead of Varane.

It’s worryingly remiscent of when Ole was trying any old shit to see what would stick.

Next we’ll see Donny randomly back on the scene.

You have to think Varane is not 100%. Despite ETH saying it was "tactics".

He bought Mount for double 8's system but that dropped it in no time. Not what does he do with a 60mil player?

The worst was the 442 diamond V Brighton. A random system that got figured out in 15 minutes by De Zerbi.

I agree. The constant shuffling of players and positions does feel like he is just hoping for something to work.
 
This season is a write off. He did okay last season, and has had to deal with so much off the pitch shite this year. I would give him one more season to try and fix things. We were never going to win or compete for the league anyway, just continue the rebuild. Play some kids, no pressure, see what happens. One step back this season and hopefully two steps forward next season.

Anyone who thought we were contenders for anything this season are deluded. We are 3-4 seasons behind City. At least.
 
This is the worst excuse yet. People actually want to get rid of the previous players before Erik came?

Thats exactly the guys point yet E
Not willing or advocating it, but open to that idea.
Ole lost his job because of several transfer business, VDB, Varun, Sancho, and especially Ronaldo. The former few resulted in lost of squad improvement opportunities and the latter (Ronaldo) ruin the squad.
Under the Glazers’ ownership, the transfer business cannot fail so often for any manager to survive. Remember the constraints of three major signs in summer.
I think Potter is more likely to succeed given the same intolerance of transfer failures because Potter will create the foundation with more cost efficient players.

Ole was finally getting a decent side together, Ronaldo was a disaster for that side, which with Carvani leading the line would have been a decent side, not title winners but a step in the right direction, as for 3 major signings a year I remember Jose ranting at the cameras in the summer of 2018 a season after he finished 2nd in the league and 1 season after winning both the UEFA Cup and the League Cup that he was allowed to bring in just Fred and 18 year old Dalot, when he was desperate to strengthen midfield following the retirement of Carrick and sale of Fellaini and Daley Blind.

As for Potter he was a huge success at Chelsea wasn't he.

ETH is the right man at the right time, he is already investing in the academy, Hojlund will be a great striker, Mainoo is the future, Martinez is a giant, Amad, Hannibal, Pellestri, but the position he started from was so low it was never going to be fixed in one or 2 season, ETH has already embarked on the development of his own Class of 92, I for one hope the Glazers, INEOS or whoever owns the club in the coming years have the guts to stick the course.
 
Anyone picking Maguire and Evans over Varane is asking to get sacked
Because Maguire and Varane "are not good on the left". So he benched better defender for one who was 5th choice 2 weeks ago.
He demanded third left back and then ended playing with Lindelof there.
Spends 100 mil on right winger and then plays Bruno there.
Spends 70 mil euros on Mount and after one month he doesn't know how to use him.
Starts McTominay (who was 6th choice midfielder) 4 games in a row despite general game is suffering.

As i said before this game. He is in desperation mode. He ditched all his plans regarding lineup and style and he is just trying to survive next game. Which is best way to fail. This is just slow death now. We will grind some wins but God help us against any decent side which has a plan how to play.
 
His management since the cup final has been the worst of any manager post-SAF.

Worst start to a season ever in terms of performances and he is finished here. Only a matter of when.
 
I’m annoyed at the performance vs City. And the result, obviously. I blame EtH for some of it because I don’t like some of the players he picked. I didn’t like the tactics much either.

I have to remind myself that it’s not these micro decisions that are going to matter much in the grand plan. The plan is to go from being a Top 6 team (with some Top 4 years) to being title winners and regular title challengers.

A manager who can bring about this radical and sustainable improvement is going to be doing a lot of shit that we can’t see. Unfortunately, we have no idea what EtH is doing behind the scenes. We can only go on the performances, the results, and what he says when he speaks about the team and the process.

I’m very fed up with the performances and the results but I prefer to wait a while before sacking EtH, mostly because I’ve seen what happens when we sack managers (we hire another and proceed to sack him first chance we get). And I like what I hear from EtH and what I’ve heard about his meticulous, long term approach.

It gets harder to argue, “a posteriori”, that he’s the right man for the job but I still think he’s going to deliver in the end.
 
He isn’t suited to the PL, and the footy’s dull…

But they’ll probably keep him on until Jim Brexit’s in and then bring in Potter who seems to fit Ratchilffe’s outlook and ambitions.

I actually think Potter will be popular at Utd and do quite well, relatively speaking.
 
Anyone giving ETH the excuse of these being Jose or Oles players, look at what Howe, Emery or Postecoglou are doing at their clubs. They have inherited much worse players and improved them massively.

Plus, they have made signing that have improved their teams. Very few Ten Hag signings have improved our starting XI.
 
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