Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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kouroux said:
Those who still believe in him, could you please answer why do Rashford and Bruno keep starting games, no matter the number of terrible games they can play consistently ?
Or even simpler, why is Bruno still on set pieces duty ?
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Tbf they're the best players he's ever coached in his career and they're also the only reason he achieved anything of note last season.
 
dutchred said:
Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride
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Oh look, the Fergie excuse. How exciting and novel.
 
dutchred said:
Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride
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Enough with this "manager + time = SAF" bullshit already.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
You think Ten Hag going into this season he wanted to be playing Maguire and Evans at CB? He was desperate to get shot of Maguire and Evans was a desperate signing because they hadn’t been able to sign anyone else.
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Thankfully them two can stay fit. Should stay as the partnership until they aren't. The least of our problems.
 
Fortitude said:
We still have a season that is salvageable. We can't keep tossing entire seasons out; it's extremely un-big club like and damages morale even more than needs be leading into the next campaign.

We need to get with the times in terms of our conduct. If it's not ten Hag, we shouldn't sit on our hands for months and months until there's a semblance of functionality at the club.
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It causes so much damage - you tank the value of your players in the transfermarket (nobody wants damaged goods), the atmosphere becomes toxic, players become disillusioned and in generally once you've let standards slip even more they're harder to pick up again.
 
Over thought it today

He's having a real tough season so far, nothing is working, the players are dropping all around him, the press and opposition players smell blood.

It's gonna take a huge effort to turn this around
 
Baxquux said:
This. Should we have given Moyes 3 years, let alone the 6 on his initial contract? It's a fetish with some people here....
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It's an insult to SAF too. As if he wasn't a special manager at all, and everything he did could easily be replicated with the magic ingredient of time.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?
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This is the worst excuse yet. People actually want to get rid of the previous players before Erik came?
 
At the end of last season you were all singing his praises, 10 games later with the worst injury record I can ever remember in 50 years of supporting United, were we have barely been able to field the same team 2 weeks in a row and your calling for his head it beggars belief.

Thank god we had genuine fans and no social media in the mid 80s or you lot would have has Sir Alex sacked before he went on to be come the greatest manager this or any club has ever seen, those early years where no walk in the park some season we were awful, 1988-89 we finished 11th, wining just 2 of our last 11 games, the following season 1989-90 we finished 13th winning just 13 games all season that despite bringing in 8 new signings at the start of the season, including Irwin, Ince, Pallister, Webb an Phelan to Join Bruce, Hughes, and McClair and who joined the previous season ok we won the cup but the performances were dire, in 1990-91 season we finished 6th.

That same year Sir Alex was probably the luckiest man alive, as United drew Pecsi Mecsek, Wrexham, Montpellier, and Legia Warsaw (that was my first European away game as English clubs had been banned from European competition following the Heysel stadium disaster) in the Cup Winners Cup they made it to the final against Barcelona, a poor game remembered for an unbelievable goal from Mark Hughes which saw United emerge victorious against a 10 man Barcelona side.

The following season they went on to finish 2nd in the league however that was Sir Alex's 5th season in charge without a league title.

The 1992-93 season Sir Alex's 6th season finally saw United win the Premier League title, could you imagine the uproar today if United finished in the bottom half of the table two years in succession.
 
bosnian_red said:
feck the "big club like" mentality. That dramatic craving to get back in the CL and throw aside any strategy and long term thinking to rush back in there is what tricks us into spending big on stop gap players time and time again. Just be patient, build properly, accept it'll take time and a thorough rebuild of SMART purchases.

And we absolutely shouldn't touch ten hag now. Because the people who will be making these decisions are literally about to change. It would be a dumb feck move to change Ten Hag, hire a manager and then change the whole sporting direction of the club with Ratcliffe, whatever sporting director comes in, and so on. It'd be chaotically stupid. We know that Ratcliffe will likely take over soon. He'll have his plans. Hopefully he implements a proper forward thinking structure. Hopefully they are committed to a long term rebuild. Because it sure as feck will not happen over night or just with a few signings.

This is a situation that will take a few years to sort out. We'll need to look at replacing Bruno, Casemiro, Eriksen, Varane, Maguire, Evans, Lindelof, possibly Shaw, Amrabat isn't even signed but he is 27. Our RW's are pathetic and both need replacing. Sure some of these players can be good squad players. Some might last longer as starters than their age suggests. But we have a lot to do with the squad, we have a ton to do with our system, we have a ton do above the manager. That all takes time. There's no use in keep trying to put band aids and cover things up. Commit to the long term rebuild. Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad, Mainoo, Martinez... these guys are the future of our squad. They are the players who we should build towards being the spine of the next big team. Accept it will be a multi year project but build a side that will develop as a group and peak in a few years. Because yes, this year is tragic and garbage and over already from any achievement POV. Maybe Ten Hag can pull it together in the 2nd half. Maybe when Ratcliffe takes over and re-aligns us, Ten Hag is still the guy. But the system, the way we play, is more than 1 season away from being something that is capable of progressing us to where we want to be, especially compared to other top teams in the prem.
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That's not incorrect in terms of timescale and reasoning, but as I said, big clubs do what they can to keep morale high and tank as little of any given season as possible. Even if you don't get a permanent employment, you get a caretaker and try to salvage whatever you can from the season whilst actively preparing for what you've talked about with the coach identified to take on the role.

The if in your scenario is ten Hag possibly turning things around, but what if the if is him torpedoing into a negative cycle? That's even more issues to fix with a squad more depleted and broken than it is now.

Much to my disappointment as someone who really thought we'd found our guy, ten Hag is showing way too many deficiencies: tactics; in-game management; personnel; understanding the capabilities of his own squad and a serious inability to adapt. I don't believe he has it in him to turn this around because he's showing nothing to even latch onto and believe in. If he was I'd think time and patience might turn the entire thing around, eventually. But there is nothing there, for me - is he identifiably going to blood and/or use any players we'd pin our hopes on in the future, or is just going to be manic run of save my job players. Is there anything he exces at that can be baton pass to the next person in charge? It doesn't look like it.

Writing off whole seasons in early November just doesn't sit well with me - that's in relation to persisting if something is seriously wrong.
 
I'm still annoyed he played Bruno on the right
 
Losing 3-0 to City isn’t the issue, it can happen to anyone & the start point was years behind, the issue is outside of losses like today you have performances like Copenhagen & Palace etc. which points to no tangible example of improved style of play.

Personally I was a massive defender of EtH after the way we ended last year but the absolute catastrophe that was the transfer window along with the questionable team management have left me a bit ambivalent to him.

I certainly don’t think it’s all his fault but this also isn’t a case of him being faultless either.
 
I’m of the firm belief that nothing will change unless our ownership takes a major step back on footballing matters both optically and operationally.

Having said that, I feel ETH has lost the faith of his players and it’s a no-win situation for both parties. When results go pear shaped at United, it is often the players that seem to have leverage to send a manager packing.

I don’t know what the solution is. Perhaps it’s just about accepting mediocrity until we’re ready to challenge again without the Glazers.
 
Dead man walking. Media are questioning him, fans too. Only a matter of time.
 
Caellum said:
At the end of last season you were all singing his praises, 10 games later with the worst injury record I can ever remember in 50 years of supporting United, were we have barely been able to field the same team 2 weeks in a row and your calling for his head it beggars belief.

Thank god we had genuine fans and no social media in the mid 80s or you lot would have has Sir Alex sacked before he went on to be come the greatest manager this or any club has ever seen, those early years where no walk in the park some season we were awful, 1988-89 we finished 11th, wining just 2 of our last 11 games, the following season 1989-90 we finished 13th winning just 13 games all season that despite bringing in 8 new signings at the start of the season, including Irwin, Ince, Pallister, Webb an Phelan to Join Bruce, Hughes, and McClair and who joined the previous season ok we won the cup but the performances were dire, in 1990-91 season we finished 6th.

That same year Sir Alex was probably the luckiest man alive, as United drew Pecsi Mecsek, Wrexham, Montpellier, and Legia Warsaw (that was my first European away game as English clubs had been banned from European competition following the Heysel stadium disaster) in the Cup Winners Cup they made it to the final against Barcelona, a poor game remembered for an unbelievable goal from Mark Hughes which saw United emerge victorious against a 10 man Barcelona side.

The following season they went on to finish 2nd in the league however that was Sir Alex's 5th season in charge without a league title.

The 1992-93 season Sir Alex's 6th season finally saw United win the Premier League title, could you imagine the uproar today if United finished in the bottom half of the table two years in succession.
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Was 30 years ago man, the game has changed now. Move on.
 
VP89 said:
To be honest it's tough to tell. I still do but I'm less confident now than a few weeks ago, and it has nothing to do with today's game.

I was very disappointed with palace Brentford and Sheffield performances. I want to see how he does in this next run and then see. He obviously won't have many lives so hel have to sort it out.
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Yeah the performances against the supposed easy teams have been really poor. I think he has maybe accepted that his long term plan for this season hasn’t planned out, which has left certain players like Mount in a difficult position.
He needs to get us scoring ASAP, if he can’t he’ll be gone sooner rather than later.
 
dutchred said:
Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride
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If he needs a DOF to tell him what position Mount is, then he's got a big problem.
 
dutchred said:
Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride
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This rhetoric means that any manager given time will be a success which simply isn't true. Not directed to you but ETH and Sir Alex don't belong in the same sentence no matter what context the conversation is. It's like saying that every basketball player who practices shooting three's for more than a few years will become Steph Curry. There's minimal consideration for the various other aspects that gives someone success in whatever field they are proficient in. Sir Alex didn't become successful at United because he was given time, that would isolate time as the barometer that produced his success, Sir Alex was successful because he was the best manager in succession of the games history. Time proved his brilliance it didn't exemplify it.

Realistically the best trajectory for a modern manager at an elite club to follow after is Klopp. The more time he was given the more the team improved in performances first and then that improved results secondly, incrementally until Liverpool finished 1st and won a European title.
 
AshRK said:
People are still in delusion that this board is backing the manager. Then they wonder why every manager fail here. Eth has been absolutely shafted. I won't blame him if he walks away.
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Josh 76 said:
What’s the odds on him walking from Disney land ?
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sewey89 said:
I fear he might walk away if this isn’t sorted out by the end of the window. He seems the type
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Cassidy said:
There are reports he has clauses in his contract that allow him to walk if certain conditions are not met.
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Lads, what will it take to make our saintly manager walk? Surely he's not the type of guy to stick around for his multimillion pay off?
 
crossy1686 said:
Nope, Evan’s and Maguire are our best box defenders, that’s why he went with them.
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Box defending with that kind of full backs and midfield is asking for trouble. Totally lost the game on drawing board already before players stepping out on the pitch.

It's no secret, Pep targets our far post in games against us. Even our 2-1 victory was not without scare. And here they had a field day with same method of attacking all game. Haaland made Evans look like a schoolboy despite his experience. Constantly dragged Evans into one man offside line situation. Evans mindlessly following Haalnad around even by abandoning zonal defending zone is damning. No defenders can mark Haaland completely out of game entirely, but the extend of failing to do the basic is inexcusable

In short, favor the box defending ability from past it CB while other positions are not equipped for such tactic backfire badly. Unlikely 6-3 loss last season, where we showed some fight and bravery. This time we're totally defeated, went full damage control mode.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
You think Ten Hag going into this season he wanted to be playing Maguire and Evans at CB? He was desperate to get shot of Maguire and Evans was a desperate signing because they hadn’t been able to sign anyone else.
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It was his own doing today. Varane on the bench was tactical according to him

Besides if we have a dodgy patched up defence I’d expect us to concede more than usual but it doesn’t excuse the whole team looking like they struggle with the concept of football. We could have generally lost every single league game this season and had no complaints we’ve been crap in every single match win or lose.
 
Skills said:
Lads, what will it take to make our saintly manager walk? Surely he's not the type of guy to stick around for his multimillion pay off?
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Let me guess. He can walk today for all I care but you know you will be wanting the next manager sacked as well while wondering how the next manager after that will solve everything.
 
If he gets sacked he gets sacked.
I think I would have more sympathy for him if he didn't drop Hannibal

I don’t think the issues are his fault but he is also not helping himself
 
mu4c_20le said:
For the first time he's losing the social media as well

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I think he's trying to be careful not to be too hard on the players, they're clearly mentally fragile. I don't believe for a second he thinks this was a good performance. But he's in a difficult position now: if he's too honest about our shite performances he may lose the dressing room which will inevitably lose him his job, and if he's not he'll be seen by the social media brigade as deluded.

He's just trying to grind out results for now and survive until he gets his starters back (Licha, Shaw, AWB, Malacia, Varane, Casemiro).
 
I dont understand his post match comments: How can he claim that the game plan was very good and we played very well in the first half? The ruthless attitude of last season has made way for self preservation it seems. Picking Bruno and Rashford, not starting Garnacho, playing Lindelof at LB, starting McT & Evans, EtH is losing it.
 
Baxquux said:
All that financial and actual doping will be lost in the record books. Winners write history, successful dynamic clubs create their own new fan-base, and can always find ways of turning critiques of themselves back onto oppo fans or journalists as simply forms of jealousy, sour-grapes or snobbery. Chelsea went from a shabby-glitz second-rate power who nearly went bankrupt to a global behemoth for whom players would sign even when given the option of a SAF-headed United 50% of the time under Roman.

Unless you change the system completely (which I'm totally in favour of - 50+1 fan ownership, elections, clubs run as social enterprises with community obligations, the lot), then there are no real moral victories. Even domestic oppo fans below a certain age (let alone global fans) have had City's way of doing things normalized and just see the calls for investigation as ways of securing an advantage, and the ''plastic club' calls as a form of cope.
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We’re well past the peak of football. And nobody will be romanticising City in 20 years time. There is literally nothing that captures the imagination with them.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
I think he's trying to be careful not to be too hard on the players, they're clearly mentally fragile. I don't believe for a second he thinks this was a good performance.
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That's the excuses Neville was making for them. The weight on their shoulders of being Manchester United players during difficult moments is too much for them. It's what many have been saying here since Moyes gutted SAF's squad. We have mentally weak players.
 
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