Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[el3mel]

The players are the reason the last managers got fired!

A manager is hamstrung with a limit of 3 signings per year and you want him, with a team including the likes of who I mentioned previously, to do what you ask - it can’t be done.

Most of these players in the you-know-who era would be lucky to be on the bench. The likes of Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Bruno, Dalot, McT, Maguire, Lindelof etc would not have lasted a season with him, yet have not only stuck around, but managed to get improved contract after improved contract to the point where THEY price US out of leaving!

Yeah he’s made bad signings, but that so-called team needed burning to the ground and rebuilt brick for brick, and you simply cannot do that with the structures we have above the manager.

The previous managers got fired because they played awful football and their signings flopped. Ten Hag will be the same too.

 

[Judas]

I am not sure if he should be given any more money or agency on new signings until he can get something out of the 400M he's spent.

This is the other big issue, I'm not sure how much I trust him with more money. His targets have baffled me and underwhelmed in equal measure.

 

[Tom Cato]

And replace him with who exactly ?

Ole until the caretaker buzz dies off, then Roy Keane

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Ole until the caretaker buzz dies off, then Eric Cantona

They gonna give Ole a new contract

 

[Livewire1974]

He should (even earlier) but he won't. You think this club has any plan on what to do going forward? They'll ride it out with him until this diabolical minority investment is done and things are a bit clearer on who decides what with footballing matters. I doubt any major decisions will be made before that as we are run by a bunch of greedy fecking amateurs.

The blame lies firmly with those parasites that own the club, nothing will change till they are gone.

 

[OrcaFat]

Agreed. His signings have been at best bang average, at worst appalling. Cut him off.

I’ve never really seen a more unlikeable group either. Even City looked like a decent bunch of lads compared to our lot.

It’s easy to look like a decent bunch of lads when you win easily. Not so easy when you’re getting spanked.

Martinez is a bit better than bang average isn’t he? Jury is out on the others.

Most people agree that the squad needed a complete overhaul. It’s not actually that easy to do it in two summers (January window is a waste of hope).

If we’re going to stop signing new players then we should give up altogether, by the way.

I did see one good idea in this thread. Appoint Potter. Except it was actually the worst idea I’ve ever heard.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Not the right mentality for a Manchester United manager

 

[Katy Cat]

This should probably be a separate thread* but let's assume ETH isn't here for next season - and currently that's looking a pretty safe assumption - we have a new manager and they're looking at this squad. Where do you even start?

McTominay, Maguire and Martial are all well known to be players we're looking to move on. Nothing changes there but that group increases. Lindelof (an average, squad player, who, again has been here too long) and Varane (ill-suited to the EPL and now completely unreliable on fitness) are in there too. Or should be. As is Casemiro (brilliant for ~6 months but a poor value signing - you can see he already needs replacing). Then there's the loanees (I don't see Amrabat becoming a permanent move); Evans; and, er, Sancho (who needs to be moved out, regardless of who moves into the manager role).

Antony is simply an appalling buy, and Mount is heading the same way - it's incredible we squandered so much on these two players.

Then you have Fernandes (a terrible choice as captain) and Rashford (who isn't going to change: as much as we hoped last season was a precursor to a consistent level of performance, it's not happening), both apparently undroppable, both needing to be benched. Or sold.

*But I'm a newbie and still only occasional poster...

 

[Baxquux]

City are a joke. Like the football equivalent of a McDonalds.

All that financial and actual doping will be lost in the record books. Winners write history, successful dynamic clubs create their own new fan-base, and can always find ways of turning critiques of themselves back onto oppo fans or journalists as simply forms of jealousy, sour-grapes or snobbery. Chelsea went from a shabby-glitz second-rate power who nearly went bankrupt to a global behemoth for whom players would sign even when given the option of a SAF-headed United 50% of the time under Roman.

Unless you change the system completely (which I'm totally in favour of - 50+1 fan ownership, elections, clubs run as social enterprises with community obligations, the lot), then there are no real moral victories. Even domestic oppo fans below a certain age (let alone global fans) have had City's way of doing things normalized and just see the calls for investigation as ways of securing an advantage, and the ''plastic club' calls as a form of cope.

 

[el3mel]

I was looking at the table and legit can't believe we only scored 11 goals ? We have the worst attack in top 12. Only teams from 13th and below scored less than us.

Spurs, for God's sake, scored double the goals we did and they had just sold their best striker.

 

[C3Pique]

The manager is the choice of the DoF. If the manager fails the DoF fails too, and should follow him out the door.

 

[crossy1686]

I dare say we’ll find out but I wouldn’t get my hopes up.

Sooner or later we’ll get it right, other teams do and we can too. We just need to buy a ticket to the raffle first.

 

[OrcaFat]

Not the right mentality for a Manchester United manager

Honestly. What else could he say? His mentality is he wants to win. No doubt he rather the score is 0-0 than 0-1. Or 0-3. He can’t say we are the better team, we expected to win or we played better than them. Not much point in saying we were shit and a total disgrace either.

All he can do is keep working at it. That’s what all the managers do. They rarely perform magic. They make a plan and keep going until it starts bearing fruit or they get sacked.

 

[Judas]

Sooner or later we’ll get it right, other teams do and we can too. We just need to buy a ticket to the raffle first.

I just think this is a mindless approach slightly? Just keep twisting twisting twisting and hoping one day the idiots get it right? I don't trust pretty much anyone at the club to deliver.

 

[crossy1686]

What was the tactical reason for not starting Varane?

He didn’t want to defend well?

 

[steffyr2]

Could we get a decent interim manager where he at least has the balls to drop some of our so called star players? Just like Carrick did in his first game in charge when he benched Bruno immediately

I will

This should probably be a separate thread* but let's assume ETH isn't here for next season - and currently that's looking a pretty safe assumption - we have a new manager and they're looking at this squad. Where do you even start?

McTominay, Maguire and Martial are all well known to be players we're looking to move on. Nothing changes there but that group increases. Lindelof (an average, squad player, who, again has been here too long) and Varane (ill-suited to the EPL and now completely unreliable on fitness) are in there too. Or should be. As is Casemiro (brilliant for ~6 months but a poor value signing - you can see he already needs replacing). Then there's the loanees (I don't see Amrabat becoming a permanent move); Evans; and, er, Sancho (who needs to be moved out, regardless of who moves into the manager role).

Antony is simply an appalling buy, and Mount is heading the same way - it's incredible we squandered so much on these two players.

Then you have Fernandes (a terrible choice as captain) and Rashford (who isn't going to change: as much as we hoped last season was a precursor to a consistent level of performance, it's not happening), both apparently undroppable, both needing to be benched. Or sold.

*But I'm a newbie and still only occasional poster...

These are all international players...doesn't it seem likely that a competent manager could get something out of these players? I said a couple weeks ago that ETH is angling for his payoff, I don't see any reason to change that opinion.

 

[OrcaFat]

Sooner or later we’ll get it right, other teams do and we can too. We just need to buy a ticket to the raffle first.

Other teams don’t very often. I’m not into the lottery thing, it’s too much of a long shot.

 

[crossy1686]

I just think this is a mindless approach slightly? Just keep twisting twisting twisting and hoping one day the idiots get it right? I don't trust pretty much anyone at the club to deliver.

They’ll get it right sooner or later based on pure luck if nothing else, but you have to create your luck by giving someone else a chance instead of sticking with someone that definitely can’t do it.

 

[matherto]

Can anyone even remember why the Caf decided that Poch was a shite manager? There was a period of months where it somehow became established logic that anyone who thought Poch was a good coach had an IQ <50.

He managed to finish 3rd in a 2 horse race when Leicester won the league.

He sacrificed Moura who'd got them to the final to play a completely unfit Harry Kane.

He has a terrible record in cups.

He has a terrible record when given money to spend.

He's openly said he doesn't need to win a trophy to be a good manager.

Regardless of where we are with ETH, Pochettino isn't and never was the answer.

 

[crossy1686]

Other teams don’t very often. I’m not into the lottery thing, it’s too much of a long shot.

And other teams aren’t United and don’t have their pick of coaches. We can land way better coaches than the likes of Villa and Tottenham but we chose not to, and stick with ones that aren’t very good because they need 3 years and a billion quid apparently.

 

[simonhch]

I didn’t see the game, unfortunately at hospital with my daughter, but a look at the line ups tells me a lot. A line up missing Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Wan Bissaka, and Shaw, your five most key defensive players, is always going to struggle against a juggernaut like city. I think perspective is needed.

 

[RedPed]

I think the biggest problem EtH has is that spurs hired posteloggy - we’re all now aware of the huge early impact a great manager can have

Agreed! I was fully behind the whole project thing until seeing what Postecoglu and Emery are doing at their respective clubs. Shows that immediate impacts are possible when you know what you are doing and keep things simple.

 

[Judas]

They’ll get it right sooner or later based on pure luck if nothing else, but you have to create your luck by giving someone else a chance instead of sticking with someone that definitely can’t do it.

Using the same thought, how long do we persist with players who have directly let down multiple managers? Dalot, Rashford, Bruno, McTominay, Martial, to name just a few.

 

[Jericholyte2]

The previous managers got fired because they played awful football and their signings flopped. Ten Hag will be the same too.

And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?

 

[crossy1686]

Using the same thought, how long do we persist with players who have directly let down multiple managers? Dalot, Rashford, Bruno, McTominay, Martial, to name just a few.

We know a bunch of them need to be replaced but they’re also capable of doing good things when coached well, in the right environment and with a manager that believes in them. They were all great last year by their standards and this year they’ve regressed massively, that’s on the manager. What changed? They can’t all have regressed for fun over the space of 6 months

 

[RedPed]

I didn’t see the game, unfortunately at hospital with my daughter, but a look at the line ups tells me a lot. A line up missing Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Wan Bissaka, and Shaw, your five most key defensive players, is always going to struggle against a juggernaut like city. I think perspective is needed.

But you don't compound that by playing people out of position and picking players out of form. He's not doing himself any favours and fans will soon turn.

 

[kouroux]

Those who still believe in him, could you please answer why do Rashford and Bruno keep starting games, no matter the number of terrible games they can play consistently ?
Or even simpler, why is Bruno still on set pieces duty ?

 

[el3mel]

And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?

So basically, you want the manager to play a full new team in order to succeed ? Do you realize how ridiculous your concept is ?

How good were Ten Hag signings for United ?

 

[hobbers]

And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?

Dalot, Shaw and Rashford all got big new contracts under ETH.

And he decided to make Bruno captain.

The massive problems are his own making.

 

[SilentWitness]

Been saying I am doubting he knows how to set up a functioning midfield for a few months now, and with each passing game he is compounding my doubts as he's getting progressively worse and not learning from mistakes or seemingly even acknowledging he's making them.

It comes to something when you know how bad we're going to be before a ball is even kicked.

What bothers me is he seems to be completely out of ideas on how to actually coach this team.

It really feels like you don't have midfielders capable of dominating the middle of the park. You have individuals that can operate in your 30 and the opposite 30 but that middle 30 is just lifeless and has no control.

 

[Judas]

We know a bunch of them need to be replaced but they’re also capable of doing good things when coached well, in the right environment and with a manager that believes in them. They were all great last year by their standards and this year they’ve regressed massively, that’s on the manager. What changed? They can’t all have regressed for fun over the space of 6 months

But they do this over and over don't they? Play well for a bit, then throw in the towel. Why trust them? I don't. Not one of them. Doesn't mean I've got much faith left in Ten Hag, its draining by the hour. But those players have stunk year after year when the going has got even remotely tough.

Making Bruno captain, when to me he's still not what I ever expected Ten Hag would want from a player in that position still baffles me.

I'm just a bit lost with him and so many of these players.

His signings, and then not using his signings? Bizarre.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

You think Ten Hag going into this season he wanted to be playing Maguire and Evans at CB? He was desperate to get shot of Maguire and Evans was a desperate signing because they hadn’t been able to sign anyone else.

 

[ReparableTrack0]

No apparently we have to give ten hag ten years and blame everyone bar him

Not absolving Ten Hag of any blame but I also think our ‘star’ players like Rashford and Bruno are completely tactically inept. I would bet my last dollar that a manager like Pep or Enrique would never play them on their teams.

 

[crossy1686]

But they do this over and over don't they? Play well for a bit, then throw in the towel. Why trust them? I don't. Not one of them. Doesn't mean I've got much faith left in Ten Hag, its draining by the hour. But those players have stunk year after year when the going has got even remotely tough.

Making Bruno captain, when to me he's still not what I ever expected Ten Hag would want from a player in that position still baffles me.

I'm just a bit lost with him and so many of these players.

It’s a trust issue. The players respond well to a new manager and new system. They play with confidence and everything clicks, then they get a couple of hammerings and the manager starts picking apart the team, dropping people, changing the formation, changing the tactics to show he doesn’t trust certain individuals, it makes everyone lose confidence and play to save themselves instead of playing for the team.

Then we end up in this situation where nothing is working and we’re constantly worried about the defence so the gaps between the lines are fecking huge. It’s impossible for the forward line to do anything when they’re living off long balls that they’re receiving at the half way line with everything to do.

Ten Hag got performances out of this team, Ole got performances out of this team. This team can do it, but for some reason the managers don’t have the patience to work with the team, they just want to sell half of them and bring a bunch of new players in instead.

 

[Marwood]

I didn’t see the game, unfortunately at hospital with my daughter, but a look at the line ups tells me a lot. A line up missing Varane, Casemiro, Martinez, Wan Bissaka, and Shaw, your five most key defensive players, is always going to struggle against a juggernaut like city. I think perspective is needed.

But we've had these same types of results and worse with all those players in the team.

 

[crossy1686]

You think Ten Hag going into this season he wanted to be playing Maguire and Evans at CB? He was desperate to get shot of Maguire and Evans was a desperate signing because they hadn’t been able to sign anyone else.

He didn’t play Varane today for tactical reasons, so he played Maguire and Evan’s by choice today.

 

[dutchred]

Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride

 

[Katy Cat]

These are all international players...doesn't it seem likely that a competent manager could get something out of these players? I said a couple weeks ago that ETH is angling for his payoff, I don't see any reason to change that opinion.

They are, but how many of them are likely to be part of a first team squad we can see becoming competitive (where competitive translates into a coherent, progressive, attacking, style, that gets us into a top 3-4 position we can build on)? McT, Maguire, Martial and Lindelof are surely all proven to be not good enough over a lengthy period, under different managers. Varane was a major talent but you can't build a team around someone with his fitness record. Casemiro might, just might, be good for another ~12 months but the signs aren't great and Evans is 35. Sancho's England career is probably already over and Mount won't be far behind.

I think there's a lot on ETH for getting so much wrong, for failing to deliver on the coaching side, for tactics and for culpability in recruitment but none of these players are good enough to want to keep. They wouldn't be anywhere near getting in the squads at City, Arsenal and Liverpool.

 

[Marwood]

And let’s look, not at the team ETH put out today, but his best XI

Onana - ETH
Dalot - Jose
Varane - Ole
Martinez - ETH
Shaw - LVG
Casemiro - ETH
McT (Jose) / Eriksen (ETH) / Amrabat (ETH)
Antony (ETH)
Bruno (Ole)
Rashford (LVG)
Hojlund (ETH)

ETH has been hamstrung with half of his best team being made up from the same players who, in your own words, flopped and cost previous managers their jobs.

And you expect him to succeed where others failed with those same players, how?

But seven of those are his and nobody is forcing him to bench an eight in Mount. So it's not the same team as previous managers. It's really quite different.

 

[crossy1686]

Sir Alex joined in 1986 and didn't win his first trophy, the FA Cup in 1990. After that the rest is history. Many were calling for him to be sacked in 1990 before the Notts Forest cup win.
ETH needs time and faith from the top. I also cannot understand some of his team selections and tactics, but am prepared to give him time to put his ideas into fruition. Personally I thinks he needs a top DOF. Someone who would have told him tha Mount is not and 8 but a 10, direct competition for Bruno (his captain), there are younger cheaper and better centre haves than Varane (v.d Ven, Botman, Guehi e.g.). He really wanted Antony and Ajax took us for a ride

This is absolutely not the same situation as Fergie at all and it’s insane to tow that line when you want to give a manager more time when you really shouldn’t.