Probably seldom discussed because it's not true. We had no cup replays, Europa league has at most 2 more games per team than CL and by getting knocked out in the quarter-final, we didn't play at least 3 games.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Probably seldom discussed because it's not true. We had no cup replays, Europa league has at most 2 more games per team than CL and by getting knocked out in the quarter-final, we didn't play at least 3 games.
Liverpool in 2021-2022 played 63 games. Last season we played 62 games. The issue with last season is the World Cup in between, that for a team we lack depth in certain positions like DM and CF, it had been stamina taxing.
Can you imagine a manager, literally any other manager Zidane or Pep or Ancelotti say "if you can't handle pressure you shouldn't play for United. It's eat or be eaten in the Premier League" - and think anyone would bat an eye lid? No.
But some posters, especially that one, just wait for the manager to breathe and try to feck him over
Sure, I can imagine that.
If they themselves are under pressure from their team serving up dross match after match all season with very little strategy on the pitch, they should use a bit more self awareness, that's all.
I personally don't care what he says to the press if the football is good. But under the current circumstances, trying to argue what he said here is a normal thing to say for a top coach like the three you named to say is just silly.
I mean, dude hasn't been doing much eating in the PL himself and this season, has been eaten by Palace and almost eaten by Wolves and Brentford at home.
Thats his point though.
The question asked (if I recall correctly) is do the players feel pressure to perform and I don't think ten hag put a foot wrong with his answer.
Who got them running through walls? Fergie and Jose did.
All players have it within them. Every player at United has shown levels of brilliance either at United or for previous clubs.
It is about extracting that.
Not saying Spurs are going to win the league, but my point was in response to a previous poster who said United had a bunch of "low football IQ types".
Point was, many would say the same about Spurs for most of last season, yet a new guy comes in and completely turns that team around, all be it is early days.
To me, that shows the players are capable, they just that the wrong man leading them.
Not heard that.
That's why I give him a break on the transfers. Its not his fault the club always pays double the value of the player. It happened before him and it'll happen after. For greedy bastards, the Glazers don't really keep track of where their money goes.
That's the problem though, we AREN'T playing transition football really. It's sort of a hybrid of trying to high press/control games and also be a transition team.
I mean simply watching games of Mount you can see he's better technically in tight spaces. That being said yes I agree that Mount was a pretty pointless signing considering what we really needed. But if you want to play with a double pivot of Amrabat and Case then you have to change how we press to something closer to last years version in a deeper block. With how poor our midfield has mostly looked this year I'm pretty confident Mainoo will make a difference even if he isn't a world beater. We simply need more athleticism and drive, it's why Hannibal has gotten so much more run.
Complete opposite to what was said during the previous managers tenure when people were against criticizing players in public and wanted the manager to shoulder responsibility instead of "throwing players under the bus", but it's alright. We are used to the hypocrisy for Ten Hag. He's treated different than our other managers because he's our "savior".
And this still holds true. You don't throw the players under the bus like Jose did but the big issue with your posts like many of your posts is he hardly threw anyone under the bus. The only two supposed "rift" he has had till now is with Ronaldo and Sancho. Funnily in both of them he never criticised either of them publicly so not sure where this "throwing the players under the bus" thing is coming. He has time and time in the media has used the term "We" and has outrightly asked the "team" to improve the intensity. He has also taken the blame on himself on multiple occasions.
You blame him for his tactics, fine. You blame for our poor show, fine. You can blame for team selection, fine, hey even blame for his signings being poor but let us not make up things here just because you don't rate him. What next, blame him for our poor structure.
He hasn't thrown anyone under the bus or criticized any player openly. And asking for improvement is not criticizing, if a manager can't even do that then we may as well not have any manager and just have players run the show.
He is not. He specifically informed the club that he wanted Antony at the beginning of the summer.According to reports, we were scouting Antony from his Brazilian days, so it wasn't like our scouting department needed to run a background check on him.
We could have bought him around the same fee we bought Martinez, but instead good old Murtough and Arnold decided to dilly dally and ended up at the start of august with 1 right winger out(Greenwood) and 1 right winger still not fully adapting(Sancho). Not his fault those 2 clowns in their desire to impress the fans missed out on our No.1 target in De Jong, instead of stopping the pursuit and moving on to plan, but also found themselves in a similar situation with Antony, who unlike De Jong was willing to come over, hence we had to pay an arm and a leg for him.
Please, don't absolve the primary culprits of their responsibilities. If a CEO needs to blindly follow someone from the middle management, he needs to be fired on the spot, period. Same thing goes for Murtough. They are both hired to represent and work for Manchester United, but not to be ETH's errand boys. And unless ETH's last name is Glazer, nobody should blindly follow him and pander to any of his wishes if this goes against the club's interests.
There have been plenty of instances where the CEOs/DoFs went against their manager's desires for the betterment of the club. The 2 most famous ones are Florentino Perez not willing to sign Pogba even when Zidane wanted him on numerous occassions(right call!). The famous Edwards and him declining to sign Brandt and signing Salah instead to Klopp's displeasure.
It's funny how other football clubs can do this, but not Man Utd apparently. In the eyes of the fans, our managers are elevated to status of demi-gods who require sacrifices in form of only the players they desire. And if they don't get them, then we are damned to eternal mediocrity. Except when we do, and managers fail only for our fans to realize that the so called demi-god who everyone including the club hierarchy had to worship is just a mere mortal of a man.
As far as Antony goes, I've already addressed his price tag above, but he is clearly not crap. Overpriced? Sure. Saying he is crap, when we are clearly a much better team with him in the starting XI.
Is that not a bit of BS on your behalf? Can you post some sources? Literally not heard that once.
@el3mel Still not prepared to admit you were wrong then? Or are you ignoring it on purpose....
Great post, if I could like it I would.
Not sure why people seem to quote the Onana thing over and over when he signed for inter on a free the January before ETH even joined.
I feel a bit sorry for Ten Hag at the moment. Coming into a club like United is like opening up a 1000 piece jigsaw for the first time. You turn all the pieces over to see what its about, lay them out neatly to find what you want, what clicks into place, what doesn't, then plan to build it properly.
This year, the 2nd year, should have been about keeping the foundations of the jigsaw he built and adding more pieces to it. But it's like he's entered the room to find a tornado has gone through it, to find some bits have tipped back over, some have gone missing and he's now dealing with holes all over it and filling them in with pieces that don't fit. If he had hair, he'd be tearing it out and shouting like most of us would.
I don't think he's even had a chance to play the first 11 he really wants to play, nowhere near it. I think his ideal lineup would be this.
Onana
AWB - Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - Amrabat
Anthony - Bruno/Mount - Rash/Garn
Hojlund
You would then have Martial, Erikson, Pellistri, Region, Hannibal on the bench along with either Garnacho, Mount, Bruno, Rashford (depending on who he picked)
But he's not been anywhere near having that luxury to select, instead he's been papering over cracks since the start of the season.
And there's really no use sacking him because the next manager is still left with the same jigsaw puzzle.
This year, the 2nd year, should have been about keeping the foundations of the jigsaw he built and adding more pieces to it. But it's like he's entered the room to find a tornado has gone through it, to find some bits have tipped back over, some have gone missing and he's now dealing with holes all over it and filling them in with pieces that don't fit. If he had hair, he'd be tearing it out and shouting like most of us would.
I don't think he's even had a chance to play the first 11 he really wants to play, nowhere near it. I think his ideal lineup would be this.
Onana
AWB - Varane - Martinez - Shaw
Casemiro - Amrabat
Anthony - Bruno/Mount - Rash/Garn
Hojlund
You would then have Martial, Erikson, Pellistri, Region, Hannibal on the bench along with either Garnacho, Mount, Bruno, Rashford (depending on who he picked)
But he's not been anywhere near having that luxury to select, instead he's been papering over cracks since the start of the season.
And there's really no use sacking him because the next manager is still left with the same jigsaw puzzle.
They definitely needed to, and there were reports that United scouts were against signing him but ETH insisted on him regardless.
No we couldn't that absolute rewriting of history, Ajax were very clear that they didn't want to sell Antony after loosing, Martinez, Gravenberch, Mazraoui and only stupid fee would get him. And I am not even trying to defend Murtough and Arnold, they are shit at their job, but you try to make it as ETH didn't work at Ajax and didn't know their transfer plans and way of conducting business, and that is without even going into the actual quality of the said player. Antony is not even a 50m player never mind what we have paid. And the less talk about De Jong the better. Now in hindsight we pretty much know how much ETH's agency and his son have had an influence in our transfer policy, De Jong was also one of Ten Haag's target's and he wasted the whole summer chasing him, by all account and reports, ETH was the one insisting the pursuit to last as long as it did, and he should have known better, De Jong didn't want to come from the start. Not sure how can you use that as a beating stone for the two clowns above him, but not for ETH.
As I said I don't even want to defend nor I absolve them of any blame, but you have a serious misinterpretation of how this club is run. The CEO of the club is obviously not in charge of the football thing, but in that department is the biggest stupidity and that is, he follows whoever is the manager blindly. Murtough is just a puppet. Now that we have established that they are incompetent, when you get to ETH and his decisions on transfer targets and his ability to veto any transfer, you get to his part of the blame. And it's massive.
A mare mortal can not be a United manager, only the most exceptional managers can do it. A mare mortal can go and splash 300m on absolute dross, because the hierarchy allows it, but you as a fan can not expect for him to succeed. He can't.
He is absolutely average, and a total dud. We look like a proper team because without him we play without a RM. You can take someone like Armand Traore or Remdond, and he will do the same or even better,
This agency stuff really has taken on a life of its own with a section of fans, huh.
There were rumors that when he was interviewed he promised to get the best out of our "star" players whereas others like Pochettino mentioned they need a big budget to build their own team. I feel as if this is haunting ten Hag as on the one hand he feels he is forced to use the expensive players and is not allowed to cash in on some of them but on the other hand he would like to get in players with a different profile to deliver the kind of football he has in his mind.
So caught in this situation he tries different things but the balance just is not there. While players like Maguire, McTominay, Dalot, Lindelöf and some others might not be the problem they are not the solution either. Looking at the bigger picture they should just not be part of a top team. Others like Rashford and Bruno are inconsistent and probably not suited for ten Hag who wants to play a modern style similar to the other top teams with less focus on the individual players and more on the team as a unit works over 90 minutes. Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen seem to be beyond their peak and declining (although still often showing their class). His own signings are injury prone and/or still did not have the impact he hoped for. Also potentially solid players like Shaw, AWB or Martial are not reliable as they also tend to get easily injured.
On top of that we got problems off the pitch.
A real mess. In case a new owner comes in he needs to be totally blunt and try to get green light to start more or less from scratch. No matter on which wages or how long the contracts are or who sells the most shirts he should get the right players in and get rid of most others. Someone like Rangnick would be a big help getting this major overhaul done.
So caught in this situation he tries different things but the balance just is not there. While players like Maguire, McTominay, Dalot, Lindelöf and some others might not be the problem they are not the solution either. Looking at the bigger picture they should just not be part of a top team. Others like Rashford and Bruno are inconsistent and probably not suited for ten Hag who wants to play a modern style similar to the other top teams with less focus on the individual players and more on the team as a unit works over 90 minutes. Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen seem to be beyond their peak and declining (although still often showing their class). His own signings are injury prone and/or still did not have the impact he hoped for. Also potentially solid players like Shaw, AWB or Martial are not reliable as they also tend to get easily injured.
On top of that we got problems off the pitch.
A real mess. In case a new owner comes in he needs to be totally blunt and try to get green light to start more or less from scratch. No matter on which wages or how long the contracts are or who sells the most shirts he should get the right players in and get rid of most others. Someone like Rangnick would be a big help getting this major overhaul done.
Mainoo and Hannibal is how he gets there. Instantly brings the much needed energy into midfield. Whether he’s willing to play the 2 youngsters in the middle is another story.
What makes you so sure that Antony would be useless on the left?
Other teams might have more success with inverted wingers, but that doesn’t mean it has to work for us as well. Especially when we’re also trying to play with inverted fullbacks, and two attacking central midfielders. There is too much play going in central, and not enough out wide, going outside of the fullback.
Well Mount may be slightly better technically in tight spaces 1. when he actually shows for the ball 2. but he hardly producing anything at the same time. I mean, we could try dropping Bruno for Mount but my view is that we'd be better off with Bruno's overall game. I still can't see them working together in midfield and we now see 1 getting shafted out wide.
Re playing a higher block - Ironically, I think with Casemiro and Amrabat we can defend higher up the pitch since we'll have more defensively astute midfielders who can anticipate and snuff out attacks as we saw with just Casemiro's introduction last season. Whenever Cas came on as a substitute last season we were immediately able to defend 5 - 10 yards higher up the pitch. Amrabat as the left sided DM/CM also potentially covers for our LW's defensive fragilities and I reckon he's got the engine for such a role. But yes, we can talk all we want about personnel but the big concern also is that this season's preparation and actual team setup/tactics hasn't worked.
I don't even think it's necessarily about the mentality of the players. Some of them might need to apply themselves more, but Ten Hag doesn't seem to understand the strengths and weaknesses of even his key players. He's asking Casemiro to push up when he's playing an already isolated role and his legs are going. The defence is hotchpotch due to the injuries and there's no protection in front of them to help them out.
The best managers hide the flaws of their players and team but the way we've set up this season has only exposed ours. The signings Ten Hag has made don't make sense either if this is the style of play he wants to adopt. This team shouldn't be anywhere near as bad as it is.
A manager must have the players who desire to do so. If they're lazy and entitled no amount of coaching, encouragement, or punishment will change their mode. They are set in their ways just like everyone else.
And if the manager is stubborn or limited that too can further negate the situation.
I don't think its mentality.
Mentality is overplayed. Most players now are dedicated professionals who give it their all in games. I rarely see a team and think they lack character.
What I see is a lack of talent.
If you want to apply pressure all game its simple. You have to look after the ball, you have to move off the ball and the final pass has to be good.
None of that is to do with mentality. It's ball playing talent.
I tend to agree. It's more about lacking a technical ability to accurately pass, being confident on the ball, moving into good spaces to open up passes, being quick enough. Once that falls apart heads start to drop but saying it's mentality is putting the cart before the horse imo. Every player on the pitch wants to win from under 8's to professionals. The only thing i do agree is some of them (sancho probably) may not be training hard enough.
Yeah definitely you get the odd player who can't be bothered but on the whole most players, most teams you see, there's no vast gap in mentality. Some guys are just better at football than others.
I always think its harsh on footballers who just have middling careers to suggest they lack character or mentality. Only seems to be the best players who get annointed with this incredible psychological ability.
Funny how different perception can be, but might also be due to the different countries we live in. Here in Germany it is often discussed like a professional player either is talented or a "mentality player" and only the absolute best have both. Looking at how often "having the right mentality" is seen as a reason why a team wasn't relegated etc I really don't see this lack of mentality attributed to mediocre players, surely not more often than a lack of talent.
how do you figure out that? when our players rarely challenge for headers nor second ball for awhile now. Only time they did was under Mourinho because it was United's plan A
Ole did talk about player's mentality thing so it's a trend.
I rarely see the mentality of players who've had aversge careers praised. Do you?
But there's no reason why not. I'm sure there are players up and down the leagues incredibly strong who just lack the actual ability.
For instance, constant praise for Messi and Ronaldo re their longevity. How incredible their character must be.
Ashley Young still playing in the Premier League at 38. Barely a word.
It's just perception. We just assume the most talented players have the best strength of character but not sure its true.
And coaching
Yes. But as I said that might be a German thing and not be present in your media in a similar way
the worst deal that we got in years !
You could pick out moments for all teams where a challenge isn't made but on the whole the effort is there.
We win the ball in the final third more than any other team don't we? Can't do that if there's a lazy mentality.
Problem is what we do with it once we have possession. That's talent and coaching.
Could be a big blow for Erik
Talent isn't a tangible metric, what exactly is talent? A combination of measurable metrics we call 'talent' to simplify, and that includes mentality.
They're scared to try stuff because they're scared of getting scrutinized by the fans, media and probably the manager. It's a fundamental mentality issue.
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