That's a general comment, and a fact. He was asked by the journalists about whether there is more pressure while playing for United and whether that impacts the players. He hardly accused anyone and just pointed out a fact.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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After finally watching yesterday’s game, I feel it is the turning point of the season because in the second half, we found the balance in the team.
That may be your opinion. That isn't a general comment. ETH qualified that statement by stating:
"'....Those players, they are so experienced. These are such high-quality players so they have to take responsibility. In football it is eat or get eaten. Too many times in the first half of this season we got eaten by opponents who are more hungry. This can't be. It has to go away. Every player has to deliver that in every second he is on the pitch...."
General comment?
ETH needs to take responsibility for how we set up, who is picked, and how we are instructed to play.
Again, how is he wrong. As for the bolded part, yes he has to but that's not the point we are talking about.
He is hardly accusing anyone. If anyone gets affected for that then we definitely are in trouble. It is a general comment that applies to every top demanding club. He is saying "Every" and not accusing any one individual.
Apparently. As long as you get to the final beating ‘good’ teams though.
What a stupid, stupid post.
My problem with ten Hag, and the coaching staff, is the persistence of playing with inverted wingers.
I mean, even though we have a lot of injuries at the back, that has hindered our stability and cost us points, I can’t overlook the inability to perform in attacking positions as well. Yes, you can look at each players performance and ask more of them. It’s been too much individualism with failing results. However, when I look at the way of playing and which players the coaching staff are selecting for each position, I have to say they’re not doing anyone any favours.
So, as mentioned, the main problem, as I see it, are the inverted wingers.
It’s not working. At all. They’re too predictable, too slow, too easy to defend against. Whenever Rashford, Antony or Garnacho gets the ball, they will almost always go inside, trying to hit that perfect shot. Both Rashford and Antony slow us down because they don’t really have to beat the defender. They just need to create enough space to get a shot. Which most often don’t lead to anything. By always going inside, they’re also running into an already cramped central area. Not leaving space for others to run into. They also never offer any runs in behind the fullback. Making the fullback worried about defending that area.
Remember that Greenwood was preferred on the right. He could go either way and shoot with either foot, but he had a strong right shot that would surprise the goalkeeper at the near post when he went on the outside. I would imagine that Garnacho could do the same. He’d be a bit more unpredictable and could be a real threat for us down that right-hand-side.
We also now have that power forward in Hojlund, that will take the battle in the box. He’ll run towards the goal and put his body and head where our other strikers might not. The problem is that the ball never arrives, it arrives way too late or inaccurate.
So, the coaching staff needs to drop the idea of playing with inverted wingers and play Garnacho on the right and Antony on the left. Alternate between having two strikers, a no.10 or two attacking midfielders, but please no more inverted winger.
I mean, even though we have a lot of injuries at the back, that has hindered our stability and cost us points, I can’t overlook the inability to perform in attacking positions as well. Yes, you can look at each players performance and ask more of them. It’s been too much individualism with failing results. However, when I look at the way of playing and which players the coaching staff are selecting for each position, I have to say they’re not doing anyone any favours.
So, as mentioned, the main problem, as I see it, are the inverted wingers.
It’s not working. At all. They’re too predictable, too slow, too easy to defend against. Whenever Rashford, Antony or Garnacho gets the ball, they will almost always go inside, trying to hit that perfect shot. Both Rashford and Antony slow us down because they don’t really have to beat the defender. They just need to create enough space to get a shot. Which most often don’t lead to anything. By always going inside, they’re also running into an already cramped central area. Not leaving space for others to run into. They also never offer any runs in behind the fullback. Making the fullback worried about defending that area.
Remember that Greenwood was preferred on the right. He could go either way and shoot with either foot, but he had a strong right shot that would surprise the goalkeeper at the near post when he went on the outside. I would imagine that Garnacho could do the same. He’d be a bit more unpredictable and could be a real threat for us down that right-hand-side.
We also now have that power forward in Hojlund, that will take the battle in the box. He’ll run towards the goal and put his body and head where our other strikers might not. The problem is that the ball never arrives, it arrives way too late or inaccurate.
So, the coaching staff needs to drop the idea of playing with inverted wingers and play Garnacho on the right and Antony on the left. Alternate between having two strikers, a no.10 or two attacking midfielders, but please no more inverted winger.
Neither is a big achievement honestly. But yes beating Milan and Leipzig is more impressive than whoever we beat to get to EFL final
FFS.The Arsenal match made me think of the coaches and players they went through before landing on probably their most promising foundation in the last two decades.
Glazers aside, we may just need to run through a few more seasons, managers and players. There's a strong possibility that ETH is no better a manager at this level than Unai Emory.
Glazers aside, we may just need to run through a few more seasons, managers and players. There's a strong possibility that ETH is no better a manager at this level than Unai Emory.
So after all this absolute carnage meltdown and drama... with one of the worst injury lists we've ever had..
We're 6 points behind City and 1 point behind Newcastle, on the same number of games played.
It's not so bad.
We're 6 points behind City and 1 point behind Newcastle, on the same number of games played.
It's not so bad.
It is pretty bad, especially considering our Champions League position and the fact that we have struggled in our wins as well. However, it's best not to overreact
This is just after 8 games. We are 8 points from top and 8 points from the bottom three. We have negative goal diff.
it is really really bad. If you say it’s not so bad because we are quite far from the bottom three, I would agree with you.
Funny that you keep mentioning Leipzig, given they were the ones that actually kicked us out of the CL and into the Europa.
Does put things in perspective, at least in the league, not so much the champions league where we practically have to win every game from now on.
Performances have been poor though, no denying that. Hopefully more players coming back after the international break will help us out and the next game is against a team who have only got one point in eight games.
Because ETH has had no other choice but to play him, especially as the manager signed him for such a massive fee.
You can still finish third have a few inferior players.
I would take Bowen, Almiron, Salah, Saka, Neto, Diaby, Kulusevski, Palmer, Madueke, Ayew, Elanga and whoever City happen to play at right forward. And that is just off the top of my head.
Bit what if you get do that and then get beaten by a shit team in the final?
Was a bit weird to focus so much money on an inverted winger when our right backs aren't particularly good going forward
There’s a most unfortunate belief among United fans that hard work is something beneath us that only “lesser” clubs need to concern themselves with.
These days more than ever, the most hard working teams tend to be the most successful.
I would say that our biggest problem as a team is that unfortunately it isn't just the fans but some of the players also.
I'd obviously take Saka too. Salah on his wage now I don't think so, but then again we do pay almost that obscene amount to past-it players. Some funny names on the list though. Maybe if I was viewing things exclusively via final third end product I might take some of those names without much deliberation.
That's just pushing it too far now.
Indeed!
It’s worth remembering that Ole called the players out for it, but sadly hadn’t got the clout to rectify it.
Yet no-doubt you’d use it as a stick to beat him with if we’d lost in the final.
Fact is he finished top 4 and won a trophy in his first season - something neither Pep nor Klopp did. They also didn’t have Wout Weghorst up front.
The elephant in the room for Rashford is the rise of Garnacho. Make no mistake about it; Rashford occupies the very position that Alejandro is threatening to grab with both hands.
Eventually, ten Hag won't be able to justify giving Marcus the automatic starting position, even if he does score goals, if Garnacho proves to be overall a better wide forward in every other respect.
Rashford is now 25. Ten Hag will now have to face the question of whether he is the man on the left for the next five to six years......and if that question cannot be answered confidently by now, then Rashford has every reason to be concerned. He's approaching Lallana "young", and huge periods of inconsistency cannot be carried.
It's going to take some big brass balls to demote Rashford's squad status, but it's inevitable at the current rate of development.
Eventually, ten Hag won't be able to justify giving Marcus the automatic starting position, even if he does score goals, if Garnacho proves to be overall a better wide forward in every other respect.
Rashford is now 25. Ten Hag will now have to face the question of whether he is the man on the left for the next five to six years......and if that question cannot be answered confidently by now, then Rashford has every reason to be concerned. He's approaching Lallana "young", and huge periods of inconsistency cannot be carried.
It's going to take some big brass balls to demote Rashford's squad status, but it's inevitable at the current rate of development.
It's only a turning point if he has the balls to keep Casemiro and Rashford on the bench, which he won't (certainly not Rashford anyway).
Also, if he doesn't think Bruno is the best option at number 10, have the balls to bench him too and stop picking him in a position he is totally unsuited for. But again, I think he'll still persist with this.
There are zero signs that we're going to turn into a decent, nevermind a good football team in the near enough future.
Our football has been horrendous for quite some time.
What makes people think we'll close the gap?
Delusion
First manager since Fergie, who "tries" to run this club like a real football club. That's alone enough to give him more time.
Even if United finish outside of top 4 this season, doesn't fecking matter. I'd rather have that, proven foundation is good than go through short dopamine burst from another management change again, then we inevitably go back to same stage within 1-2 years.
Ole had best league record but he was beyond helpless to set a standard despite he tried hard to do so and got sick of players's ego at the end of his tenure. If ETH goes through the same rabbit hole then I may change my mind but so far I haven't seen it.
Another issue is at United you expect manager to be real DoF, every signing must be a success. Okay, fine, that's expectation from big club but there ain't many manager out there whom can do both. So one would either wish for unicorn manager to show up or owner change then let dof do dof works. Pick one
Rashford is ok. Case’ use has to be rethought. In the second half with Amrabat playing as No 6 and Antony replacing Mount, we found balance. Creating big opportunity is another thing to address but at least we gain a foundation able to contain the opponent.
People here call Poch an elite manager. Not comparing Poch and ETH, but the bar is not that high.
We won't get the balance fully until December
I'm seeing a lot of posters asking to bench Rashford, Bruno, Casemiro etc but I have Mount just behind Rashford who needs to be dropped. Bruno needs to play in a more forward, central position and I'd have Casemiro and Amrabat behind him especially for away matches. If Bruno is playing poorly bring Mount on.
I'm excited to see what Mainoo offers in midfield and hope he challenges for a starting spot.
I'm excited to see what Mainoo offers in midfield and hope he challenges for a starting spot.
Yeah it's unfortunate unlike City we haven't got the quality in depth to drop any of those 3. I wish we had because think it would actually put the fire into them again. They don't feel under any pressure for their places is the problem
People can perform all sorts of mental gymnastics, try to find glimmer of hope based on last weekend or the multiple turning points, the stark reality staring at us is that ETH is not it.
There are plenty of issues:
(1) The most important thing needed to get us back to the top is the recruitment.
There has be far more hits than misses. Under him (and we can blame the management team all we want) the players signed are far from being good enough to get back us to level needed to compete with City, forget Liverpool and Arsenal, who seem to have go their act together.
It's quite surprising too as when he first came, ETH mentioned in his interviews that how he is taken note from Pep's mention of the physicality you need in your team to succeed in the premier league. But since then he has gone on to recruit Martinez, Antony, Malacia, Mount etc....who are not overly physical players and get rag dolled too easily. Martinez's desire, ball playing skills, defensive nous are things to be admired but even then he can't be the starting CB for a side looking to reach the top. He either will have to form a part of a three man defense or becomes a hybrid FB in the Zinchenko/Trent mold. The less said about the others the better. Antony is a not a United standard player; he is worse than Depay. Mount is a pointless signing. Malacia is a Buttner reincarnation. Weghorst was the worst striker I have seen in a United shirt. Amrabat looks like the typical midfield plodder from the Serie A without too may qualities (he is stupid too...what's with the handling of the ball when he is on the ground?), Eriksen is a good signing but the kind you make to complement the squad, not as a starter.
Onana is an outfield player masquerading as a keeper. People can sight lack of confidence, adjustment to the league or whatever but the guy has got a terrible technique for a keeper. Is clueless on what to do in one on one situations. Is a poor stop stopper. And his much hailed ball playing ability leaves a lot to be desired too.
On top of bad signings, we have made wrong signings for the second summer window running. We earlier used to get the past it former superstars (Bastian fecking Schweinsteiger!) for free or for low fee, but this time we paid 60m rising to 70m for a 30 year old on his last legs to play DM in one of the most physical leagues in the world. We needed a striker as a top priority last season but we paid 3x his actual value to get Antony. We needed two proper CM's this season - a back up to Casemiro and a proper metronome to play alongside him, an Eriksen upgrade - but instead we somehow recruited Mason Mount and Amrabat. A non CM and a poor poor back up for Case.
Not all of this stupidity is on ETH, but from his familiarity with these players, it seems he has played a pretty big role in demanding and getting them.
(2) He doesn't know how to rotate.
He ran the main players to the ground last year; that too in a WC year with players experiencing an extra-ordinary work load. Look at our main players last season - Martinez, Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro - all of them either injured or woefully out of form. Last season, their bck-ups only came to the fore when one of them was injured. Whenever not injured, they played in the league, in the league cup, the FA cup, Europa....even against shit opposition they started most of the games. I don't remember the opponent but Eriksen could have been easily rested in the game he was assaulted by Andy Carroll. He hasn't been the same player since then. Martinez was played in games this season even though he had not fully recovered from the stress injury he sustained last season. Shaw either played FB or CB, but hardly ever rested. Same for Rashford, Casemiro and Fernandez.
It's no surprise that all of them struggling this season.
(3) Last and the most important - his football is too risk averse and simply not good enough.
The football reminds me of the dark days of VG. It's slow, ponderous, lacks ideas and relies too much on individual brilliance. How many chances do we create? How many times in a game do we trouble the opposition keeper?
Our build-up is painfully slow. It's passing between the defenders and the midfield before we run out of ideas. Then we either pass it back or give it away. Or we simply hoof the ball. What was the point of getting this "Ball playing keeper" if we still hoof it more than 50% of the times and are so bad at winning second balls? How come after almost 90 (league, cups and pre-season) games we still don't know how to play out from the back? Why can't we string more than 3 passes together before giving it to the opposition?
"We want to become the best transition team in the world" - Transition teams play fast football and are excellent at winning the ball back. In fact, you can't become a transition team if you cannot win the ball back quickly. I can understand playing low percentage balls in order to find your fast attackers, but then you also have to win the ball quickly if that low % pass doesn't work out. Due to our inability to press in sync and win the ball back, we actually end up making every opposition team "the best transition team in the world". Even relegation candidates like Forest or Wolves can come to our home and cut through us at will.
Folks will say these things take time or injury excuses or whatever but after 90 games you should be able to see some green shoots towards ultimately reaching your goal of playing competent football. So far, the only thing I can see is our return to bad days of VG football when we could neither defend nor score goals.
A last minute win (as ecstatic as it was in the moment) by hoofing it to the new Fellaini is not going to change the fact that ETH hasn't been able to implement any kind of playing style so far. And yes, 3rd place and a league cup.....the most expensively assembled and the most handsomely paid staff in the world can achieve those based on individual brilliance or small periods of good play - we have done it regularly over the last 11 years by winning multiple cups and multiple top 4 finishes under various managers - but it still doesn't take us to the promised land. We can get top 4 in the league when other teams are having an off year or we can win a cup competition, but the fact remains that we are no way near building a team or a style play that gets us back to being a top club, who is constantly in the running for top honors.
It's just a feeling of despair after seeing 11 years of continuous failure - wrong people in-charge, wrong managers and wrong players. I am posting here after a long long time and don't know when will I post again. I just needed to vent my frustration.
The club, Old Trafford, Sir Alex, us fans - we all deserve better. May be the new owners, whenever the club is sold, will be able completely overhaul the system and get competent people in charge to end this horrific nightmare. Hope springs eternal!
There are plenty of issues:
(1) The most important thing needed to get us back to the top is the recruitment.
There has be far more hits than misses. Under him (and we can blame the management team all we want) the players signed are far from being good enough to get back us to level needed to compete with City, forget Liverpool and Arsenal, who seem to have go their act together.
It's quite surprising too as when he first came, ETH mentioned in his interviews that how he is taken note from Pep's mention of the physicality you need in your team to succeed in the premier league. But since then he has gone on to recruit Martinez, Antony, Malacia, Mount etc....who are not overly physical players and get rag dolled too easily. Martinez's desire, ball playing skills, defensive nous are things to be admired but even then he can't be the starting CB for a side looking to reach the top. He either will have to form a part of a three man defense or becomes a hybrid FB in the Zinchenko/Trent mold. The less said about the others the better. Antony is a not a United standard player; he is worse than Depay. Mount is a pointless signing. Malacia is a Buttner reincarnation. Weghorst was the worst striker I have seen in a United shirt. Amrabat looks like the typical midfield plodder from the Serie A without too may qualities (he is stupid too...what's with the handling of the ball when he is on the ground?), Eriksen is a good signing but the kind you make to complement the squad, not as a starter.
Onana is an outfield player masquerading as a keeper. People can sight lack of confidence, adjustment to the league or whatever but the guy has got a terrible technique for a keeper. Is clueless on what to do in one on one situations. Is a poor stop stopper. And his much hailed ball playing ability leaves a lot to be desired too.
On top of bad signings, we have made wrong signings for the second summer window running. We earlier used to get the past it former superstars (Bastian fecking Schweinsteiger!) for free or for low fee, but this time we paid 60m rising to 70m for a 30 year old on his last legs to play DM in one of the most physical leagues in the world. We needed a striker as a top priority last season but we paid 3x his actual value to get Antony. We needed two proper CM's this season - a back up to Casemiro and a proper metronome to play alongside him, an Eriksen upgrade - but instead we somehow recruited Mason Mount and Amrabat. A non CM and a poor poor back up for Case.
Not all of this stupidity is on ETH, but from his familiarity with these players, it seems he has played a pretty big role in demanding and getting them.
(2) He doesn't know how to rotate.
He ran the main players to the ground last year; that too in a WC year with players experiencing an extra-ordinary work load. Look at our main players last season - Martinez, Shaw, Rashford, Bruno, Eriksen, Casemiro - all of them either injured or woefully out of form. Last season, their bck-ups only came to the fore when one of them was injured. Whenever not injured, they played in the league, in the league cup, the FA cup, Europa....even against shit opposition they started most of the games. I don't remember the opponent but Eriksen could have been easily rested in the game he was assaulted by Andy Carroll. He hasn't been the same player since then. Martinez was played in games this season even though he had not fully recovered from the stress injury he sustained last season. Shaw either played FB or CB, but hardly ever rested. Same for Rashford, Casemiro and Fernandez.
It's no surprise that all of them struggling this season.
(3) Last and the most important - his football is too risk averse and simply not good enough.
The football reminds me of the dark days of VG. It's slow, ponderous, lacks ideas and relies too much on individual brilliance. How many chances do we create? How many times in a game do we trouble the opposition keeper?
Our build-up is painfully slow. It's passing between the defenders and the midfield before we run out of ideas. Then we either pass it back or give it away. Or we simply hoof the ball. What was the point of getting this "Ball playing keeper" if we still hoof it more than 50% of the times and are so bad at winning second balls? How come after almost 90 (league, cups and pre-season) games we still don't know how to play out from the back? Why can't we string more than 3 passes together before giving it to the opposition?
"We want to become the best transition team in the world" - Transition teams play fast football and are excellent at winning the ball back. In fact, you can't become a transition team if you cannot win the ball back quickly. I can understand playing low percentage balls in order to find your fast attackers, but then you also have to win the ball quickly if that low % pass doesn't work out. Due to our inability to press in sync and win the ball back, we actually end up making every opposition team "the best transition team in the world". Even relegation candidates like Forest or Wolves can come to our home and cut through us at will.
Folks will say these things take time or injury excuses or whatever but after 90 games you should be able to see some green shoots towards ultimately reaching your goal of playing competent football. So far, the only thing I can see is our return to bad days of VG football when we could neither defend nor score goals.
A last minute win (as ecstatic as it was in the moment) by hoofing it to the new Fellaini is not going to change the fact that ETH hasn't been able to implement any kind of playing style so far. And yes, 3rd place and a league cup.....the most expensively assembled and the most handsomely paid staff in the world can achieve those based on individual brilliance or small periods of good play - we have done it regularly over the last 11 years by winning multiple cups and multiple top 4 finishes under various managers - but it still doesn't take us to the promised land. We can get top 4 in the league when other teams are having an off year or we can win a cup competition, but the fact remains that we are no way near building a team or a style play that gets us back to being a top club, who is constantly in the running for top honors.
It's just a feeling of despair after seeing 11 years of continuous failure - wrong people in-charge, wrong managers and wrong players. I am posting here after a long long time and don't know when will I post again. I just needed to vent my frustration.
The club, Old Trafford, Sir Alex, us fans - we all deserve better. May be the new owners, whenever the club is sold, will be able completely overhaul the system and get competent people in charge to end this horrific nightmare. Hope springs eternal!
Great post. 100% agree.
Every top team from the past decade has used inverted wingers.
This idea that it's hampering us is nonsensical.
Antony would be even more useless on the left.
Those are excellent points, I think this international break is an opportunity for Eth to get his act together. I hope he somehow has the footballing intelligence to turn it around but very doubtful. I don't think he will last the season unless points are amassed within the next few games because the fixtures towards the end of the year through January are ones where the team on current form will lose a multitude of games on the bounce.
The recruitment after much consideration has actually been a disgrace. It's also the lack of consistency in signing the profile of players, going from Eriksen to Mount is somewhat comical when you consider the influence they have in the team. There's too much of a difference between the two so it's not like Mount is typically an upgrade on Eriksen their play styles don't compliment one another which is why I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of Mounts time here is spent as a very advanced midfielder in the attacking third. Tonali, Nunes, Szoboszlai and Madison to lesser extent were all available and you can throw Skriniar in there Varane has already missed a few games due to injury not even 10 games played.
Also the new system has been an absolute shambles. It's ridiculous that a manager can take such a dysfunctional team last season, have relative success with one system and then scrap it implementing a new approach the following season with a team that after the cup win has shown signs of not being settled.
If the manager is held in high regard for the progression of last season, he's 100% to blame for the poor performances this season.
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