Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I think what a lot of people who are talking about De Zerbi, Postecoglu and Eddie Howe forget, is that they're under no pressure. There are no real expectations. They're riding a wave (especially at Newcastle. This is literally the greatest thing that's ever happened to 95% of that squad and backroom staff). There's no drama at those clubs. Put any of those managers at United and they'd all fail miserably. I'm pretty sure every manager on the planet except Pep would 'fail' here.

We've sacked every manager post Fergie when they've had a slump. What's that got us? A disjointed squad and exactly the same run of results as before. Most people on here would've been screaming to sack Fergie back in the day. Nobody has any fecking patience.

Just let this guy do his thing. If it doesn't work out after 3 years, we won't be in any worse a place than we would be if we sack him now, get a new manager in and sack that guy in 18 months!
Pep would fail faster than most to be honest. He inherited a strong City team and then had some mega windows to appease him - Stones, Gundogan, Jesus, Sane, Bravo, Nolito all in the first, then had a tantrum that he was miles off Conte's Chelsea so they bought him an entire new defensive unit (Laporte, Mendy, Walker, Ederson, Danilo) AND Bernardo Silva in the second. That not even all their transfers, it's just the bigger ones. Can you even imagine what that spending looks like in today's market? Buying 12 first team players in 2 years?

I do think we should be seeing better on the pitch but then I also think the fan base are ignoring the injury crisis to a degree whilst also somewhat living in cuckoo land. I've seen posters saying ETH should sell Rashford, Bruno and Case...I mean that isn't being sanctioned. No one ever really applies any context on here anymore, we got a young promising striker instead of a proven one, bought a keeper who will make passing errors, bought a No10/wide attacker and are trying to move him to 8. There's a lot to unpick and there are now at least 3-4 other teams who can spend in the same region as us, just shoving money at the problem won't work. It's about having a plan, building a team whilst cycling out the older heads and then being in a position to compete.
 
Sacking managers has got us absolutely nowhere, this is a manager that got Ajax to the latter stages of the champions league
Reality is, most of us bought into the idea that he's a great manager based solely on this but the more you look into it the more inconclusive it is. Plenty of other managers achieved the same only to never do much of note again. It is basically cherry picking one cup competition in one season.

Sacking managers didn't "get us nowhere". Unless you're trying to say we should have kept Moyes? At some point you have to do it. This "at least 3 years" nonsense is not a thing at any other big club.
 
Why are we talking about last summer? Why?
We are talking about now.

Last season even Liverpool were struggling, today Klopp is back like he never left.

Did you know last summer Ange would be spurs manager? No.
Can they take ETH now to replace Ange absolutely no.

About Ajax. Even Ralf managed Schalke in 2011 semi final of CL. Even Villarreal reached semi final of CL. Even Poch reached CL final with Spurs.

So reaching 1 semifinal is not a very big thing to boast about. Why dont you bring the full CL history of ETH at Ajax, don't cherry pick 1 season only.
Yes so according to your impeccable logic let’s sack ETH after he’s shown demonstrable progress last year with an overachieving 3d place and cup plus CL qualification. Yes the results have been poor but we clearly have problems beyond him. But the first thing you can think of is sack him. Klopp had a horrible stretch for a majority of last season and managed the right the ship. We are not Liverpool you are right but surely we are starting from a very low place when ETH took over and to sack ETH simply to satiate knee jerk reactors like you would put us in the exact same spot where even you don’t even want us be 18 months back.
 
Reality is, most of us bought into the idea that he's a great manager based solely on this but the more you look into it the more inconclusive it is. Plenty of other managers achieved the same only to never do much of note again. It is basically cherry picking one cup competition in one season.

Sacking managers didn't "get us nowhere". Unless you're trying to say we should have kept Moyes? At some point you have to do it. This "at least 3 years" nonsense is not a thing at any other big club.
I think more a lot of people liked how they played in the CL, rather than just saying 'they got to this point in a competition'.

Regardless, he was actually qualified and in a job (which hasn't been the case for basically every manager we've had since SAF) and if he is sacked, we should look for the same profile (manages an offensive team and plays in the CL) and try again. I don't really get why people want him sacked now though, we've started awfully but it's such a short period compared the positive that came before.
 
Pep would fail faster than most to be honest. He inherited a strong City team and then had some mega windows to appease him - Stones, Gundogan, Jesus, Sane, Bravo, Nolito all in the first, then had a tantrum that he was miles off Conte's Chelsea so they bought him an entire new defensive unit (Laporte, Mendy, Walker, Ederson, Danilo) AND Bernardo Silva in the second. That not even all their transfers, it's just the bigger ones. Can you even imagine what that spending looks like in today's market? Buying 12 first team players in 2 years?

I do think we should be seeing better on the pitch but then I also think the fan base are ignoring the injury crisis to a degree whilst also somewhat living in cuckoo land. I've seen posters saying ETH should sell Rashford, Bruno and Case...I mean that isn't being sanctioned. No one ever really applies any context on here anymore, we got a young promising striker instead of a proven one, bought a keeper who will make passing errors, bought a No10/wide attacker and are trying to move him to 8. There's a lot to unpick and there are now at least 3-4 other teams who can spend in the same region as us, just shoving money at the problem won't work. It's about having a plan, building a team whilst cycling out the older heads and then being in a position to compete.
Completely with you. But I simply refuse to believe that we bought Mount on a whim. I believe when we got him everyone or a majority of supporters praised the deal. He was (barring last season when everyone at Chelsea was crap) their best player for a couple of seasons. Can’t argue with people who thrive on the latest social media posts trashing ETH or want the instant gratification of seeing someone put to the sword. Yes we are crap at the moment but there are mitigation circumstances. Honestly even if we crash outside of top 4 this year I’d still keep him because the club is just a mess. Absolutely cannot fathom another managerial change at the moment because I don’t think there are really outstanding candidates out there or even if there are, I’m not sure they would want a poisoned chalice at this time. This club simply is disillusioned with a lot of things starting with ownership and the crap culture they peddle.
 
Why are we talking about last summer? Why?
We are talking about now.

Last season even Liverpool were struggling, today Klopp is back like he never left.

Did you know last summer Ange would be spurs manager? No.
Can they take ETH now to replace Ange absolutely no.

About Ajax. Even Ralf managed Schalke in 2011 semi final of CL. Even Villarreal reached semi final of CL. Even Poch reached CL final with Spurs.

So reaching 1 semifinal is not a very big thing to boast about. Why dont you bring the full CL history of ETH at Ajax, don't cherry pick 1 season only.

It's exactly the same story now, all of the clubs you mentioned would still look at EtH.

Some of our fans have a really fecking short memory, his Ajax record.

3x League Titles
2x Domestic Cups
1x Champions League Semi-Final

The reason I highlighted the Semi-Final is that you highlight the almost unbelievable achievements. He took a Dutch side to a Champions League Semi-Final, a team that would be ecstatic with getting to the quarter finals most seasons and probably should be being knocked out in the group stages or possibly the first knockout round. All of his achievements with Ajax matter, because he did so with a constant turnover of his best players leaving, and was consistently able to build title winning teams season on season.

Don't want to look as far back as Ajax, look at LAST SEASON - he finished 3rd, League Cup Winners and FA Cup Finalists, with a team largely made up of 3-4 managers players, with no end of drama going on around the club.

EtH is not perfect, and does need to take his share of blame for our current situation, but saying Brighton wouldn't even consider him is ridiculous.
 
Completely with you. But I simply refuse to believe that we bought Mount on a whim. I believe when we got him everyone or a majority of supporters praised the deal. He was (barring last season when everyone at Chelsea was crap) their best player for a couple of seasons. Can’t argue with people who thrive on the latest social media posts trashing ETH or want the instant gratification of seeing someone put to the sword. Yes we are crap at the moment but there are mitigation circumstances. Honestly even if we crash outside of top 4 this year I’d still keep him because the club is just a mess. Absolutely cannot fathom another managerial change at the moment because I don’t think there are really outstanding candidates out there or even if there are, I’m not sure they would want a poisoned chalice at this time. This club simply is disillusioned with a lot of things starting with ownership and the crap culture they peddle.
I was very against Mount at 8 but it's foolish to deny his ability in general. The odd part is it was obvious Case can't play the lone DM at his age if Mount's partner is Bruno because teams can just slice straight through us on the break. I had a full blown debate about this on here before the season began with someone who disagreed about this fact.

I would love to see him fully commit to whatever his plan is this season, we just need to stop the direct Sunday league long balls.
 
No playing from back shit . Bring in McT to partner Case. Move Dalot to left and play Lindelof on right. Start Garnacho. Bring Harry back.

This isn't the time to be stubborn.

Are you an opposition fan/want us relegated?
 

The long ball launched into space (usually started by Casemiro) is very reminiscent of Ole's 'get Lindelof to launch the ball over the top to Rashford' move that we saw in his time.

I do think there were clear signs of improvement with retention of the ball and player movement in the middle of last season but they seem to have gotten a lot worse just lately. Part of me feels a bit fed up with this style of play.
 
No playing from back shit . Bring in McT to partner Case. Move Dalot to left and play Lindelof on right. Start Garnacho. Bring Harry back.

This isn't the time to be stubborn.

How about we try Amrabat in his natural position...?
 
Was playing players through poor form ever the way to do it? Is that how fergie did it or were you benched? I think that’s his issue, was Oles as well.

if a players in poor form bench them and let them rest a little, let them learn. Rashford should be benched, Bruno, Onana and Dalot. I don’t care who slots in for them
—Martial-Hojland
———Mount—-
Amrabat Casemiro Hannibal

Dalot Lindelof Varane - Antony
 
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How about we try Amrabat in his natural position...?
I was just about to reply to that poster saying the same thing, why would you play McT when we have Amrabat now. Everyday I see weirder and weirder things posted on here :lol:
 
Pep would fail faster than most to be honest. He inherited a strong City team and then had some mega windows to appease him - Stones, Gundogan, Jesus, Sane, Bravo, Nolito all in the first, then had a tantrum that he was miles off Conte's Chelsea so they bought him an entire new defensive unit (Laporte, Mendy, Walker, Ederson, Danilo) AND Bernardo Silva in the second. That not even all their transfers, it's just the bigger ones. Can you even imagine what that spending looks like in today's market? Buying 12 first team players in 2 years?

I do think we should be seeing better on the pitch but then I also think the fan base are ignoring the injury crisis to a degree whilst also somewhat living in cuckoo land. I've seen posters saying ETH should sell Rashford, Bruno and Case...I mean that isn't being sanctioned. No one ever really applies any context on here anymore, we got a young promising striker instead of a proven one, bought a keeper who will make passing errors, bought a No10/wide attacker and are trying to move him to 8. There's a lot to unpick and there are now at least 3-4 other teams who can spend in the same region as us, just shoving money at the problem won't work. It's about having a plan, building a team whilst cycling out the older heads and then being in a position to compete.

I'm confident that if you gave Pep 3 years here, he'd have us at the top of the league, otherwise I agree. Perhaps the results in the meantime might be wayward though (which could the trajectory we're on right now!).

I do think we ought to be doing better and have the personnel to be doing so but it's not so bad, with no positive signs that we should be overly worried. There are many extenuating circumstances which are taking time to work through and get over. This is a process and we're somewhere in the middle of it. It's important to let it run to the conclusion.
 
I'm confident that if you gave Pep 3 years here, he'd have us at the top of the league, otherwise I agree. Perhaps the results in the meantime might be wayward though (which could the trajectory we're on right now!).

I do think we ought to be doing better and have the personnel to be doing so but it's not so bad, with no positive signs that we should be overly worried. There are many extenuating circumstances which are taking time to work through and get over. This is a process and we're somewhere in the middle of it. It's important to let it run to the conclusion.
3 years here with the backing our managers have had, I think it would be a stretch. We basically sign 3 first teamers a year max. If you gave him the uber windows he had when he joined City then I think he could as well, but then I think many mangers probably would be able to alongside him.

Pep's been at City so long people forget what a joke those two first seasons were. They'd won the PL with Pellegrini a couple of season before and already had the best players bedded in, it would be like someone getting appointed at Pool who are somewhat recent PL champions and getting, in today's market, about £600m to spend in two windows.
 
I think what a lot of people who are talking about De Zerbi, Postecoglu and Eddie Howe forget, is that they're under no pressure. There are no real expectations. They're riding a wave (especially at Newcastle. This is literally the greatest thing that's ever happened to 95% of that squad and backroom staff). There's no drama at those clubs. Put any of those managers at United and they'd all fail miserably. I'm pretty sure every manager on the planet except Pep would 'fail' here.

We've sacked every manager post Fergie when they've had a slump. What's that got us? A disjointed squad and exactly the same run of results as before. Most people on here would've been screaming to sack Fergie back in the day. Nobody has any fecking patience.

Just let this guy do his thing. If it doesn't work out after 3 years, we won't be in any worse a place than we would be if we sack him now, get a new manager in and sack that guy in 18 months!

The key difference between those 3 clubs specifically and United is the transfers - all 3 of those have scouting and recruitment structures in place that largely excludes the manager. Brighton everyone knows, Newcastle with Dan Ashworth (previously at Brighton), and Spurs made loads of good transfers over the last 2 years that Conte didn't even use.

Whereas we've let ETH sign whoever he wanted and it's been a disaster.
 
How about we try Amrabat in his natural position...?
Because he has been quite poor when he played. While I understand he was played as a left back , this isn't the time to take risk and try him now . Case isn't tracking any runners and we need some energy to help in midfield. We just can't be open anymore.

So, play him and he will help us defensively.
 
This isn't a substantially better option than just having Amrabat at LB.
It is when you therefore can play a proper midfield trio like Casemiro, Amrabat, Mount. That should cover the center much better than what is happening right now.
 
It is when you therefore can play a proper midfield trio like Casemiro, Amrabat, Mount. That should cover the center much better than what is happening right now.

At the moment, i agree. We have a real problem with getting caught out of shape in transition. While Amrabat at LB but drifting inside is not a bad idea when the team is playing well, right now we should just eliminate that risk altogether and plonk him in the middle.
 
I'm confident that if you gave Pep 3 years here, he'd have us at the top of the league, otherwise I agree. Perhaps the results in the meantime might be wayward though (which could the trajectory we're on right now!).

I do think we ought to be doing better and have the personnel to be doing so but it's not so bad, with no positive signs that we should be overly worried. There are many extenuating circumstances which are taking time to work through and get over. This is a process and we're somewhere in the middle of it. It's important to let it run to the conclusion.

Even though at every single club Pep has been to, he 99% of the time gets his first choice man along with an open chequebook, which means even if he does make errors he can quickly rectify them. At United he'll be delivered his 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice targets. On a rare occasion he would get his first and the club would still be useless in selling players like Maguire and VDB.
 
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This isn't a substantially better option than just having Amrabat at LB.

It's isn't but maybe Amrabat could help with all these cut backs and late runs we keep conceding goals to if he was playing in the middle alongside Casemiro.
 
Was playing players through poor form ever the way to do it? Is that how fergie did it or were you benched? I think that’s his issue, was Oles as well.

if a players in poor form bench them and let them rest a little, let them learn. Rashford should be benched, Bruno, Onana and Dalot. I don’t care who slots in for them

Yeah that's the kind of big calls needed,like I said everyone is in too much of a comfort zone
 
Yeah that's the kind of big calls needed,like I said everyone is in too much of a comfort zone
Rashford and Bruno I think it’s out of dire necessity. Those two last year contributed, and we are so light on attackers that contribute. We have one cf, martial and garnacho for Lw with martial as third string and second striker by default, Amad is out, and he’s unproven, Antony and sancho together had numbers of a decent right winger, and for CAM it’s rally only Bruno with Mount being worked in.

Gotta sign two attackers in January, cf and a rw
 
I think ten Hag is a bit torn. On the one hand he has an idea of how he would like to play football. On the other hand he has not the right set of players and so he keeps playing the "stars".
If you asked him behind closed doors if he would sell e.g. Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro and Maguire and use the money and wages on a bunch of other players of his choice he would immediately do it.
 
I think ten Hag is a bit torn. On the one hand he has an idea of how he would like to play football. On the other hand he has not the right set of players and so he keeps playing the "stars".
If you asked him behind closed doors if he would sell e.g. Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro and Maguire and use the money and wages on a bunch of other players of his choice he would immediately do it.
But a good manager finds a way with the cards he is dealt with. That is his job
 
Klopp and Arteta had even worse second seasons.

Arteta had a period of with 11 games with 6 losses, two draws and 3 wins. They only beat Molde, Rapid Wien and Dundalk FC in Europa League

Klopp Had in the middle of his second season 2016/2017 where he had two wins in 12 games. One of the wins were against Plymoth in the FA cup.

Can we please calm down and trust in the manager?

What good does it do to restart with another manager that wants different players again? It is going to be a endless loop of changing managers.
 
I think ten Hag is a bit torn. On the one hand he has an idea of how he would like to play football. On the other hand he has not the right set of players and so he keeps playing the "stars".
If you asked him behind closed doors if he would sell e.g. Bruno, Rashford, Casemiro and Maguire and use the money and wages on a bunch of other players of his choice he would immediately do it.
Why would he be desperate to sell a player he made captain, a player he gave a mega contract to after a 40+ G/A season for him, and a player that he bought? If these players can’t play his ridiculous open game he needed to make appropriate steps to not have them in his squad.
 
It is when you therefore can play a proper midfield trio like Casemiro, Amrabat, Mount. That should cover the center much better than what is happening right now.
As well as being given more help, casemiro needs to be told to play as a holding midfielder and not some roaming playmaker
 
Klopp and Arteta had even worse second seasons.

Arteta had a period of with 11 games with 6 losses, two draws and 3 wins. They only beat Molde, Rapid Wien and Dundalk FC in Europa League

Klopp Had in the middle of his second season 2016/2017 where he had two wins in 12 games. One of the wins were against Plymoth in the FA cup.

Can we please calm down and trust in the manager?

What good does it do to restart with another manager that wants different players again? It is going to be a endless loop of changing managers.
Restarting doesn’t help but let’s not pretend it’s the same. What ETH is trying to implement is dumb and so is the fact he does everything himself. Why is he In control of all transfers? Why is he in control of how the youth academy plays? Doing everything yourself is the sign of a poor leader, good leaders trust and delegate.

liverpool and Arsenal have better footballing structures, whilst we don't have on at all.

we’ve also been in the same cycle for a decade and it shocks me people cansee that. Sit back and suffer through the ride, it’s all we can do.
 
Restarting doesn’t help but let’s not pretend it’s the same. What ETH is trying to implement is dumb and so is the fact he does everything himself. Why is he In control of all transfers? Why is he in control of how the youth academy plays? Doing everything yourself is the sign of a poor leader, good leaders trust and delegate.

liverpool and Arsenal have better footballing structures, whilst we don't have on at all.

we’ve also been in the same cycle for a decade and it shocks me people cansee that. Sit back and suffer through the ride, it’s all we can do.
How does he control how the academy plays
 
Even though at every single club Pep has been to, he 99% of the time gets his first choice man along with an open chequebook, which means even if he does make errors he can quickly rectify them. At United he'll be delivered his 2nd, 3rd or 4th choice targets. On a rare occasion he would get his first and the club would still be useless in selling players like Maguire and VDB.

Exactly, I don’t understand how people can’t see that.

The main reason United has been performing so poorly for 10 seasons is not managers. We spend more then enough to compensate for managers who may not be what we need, but still consistently make top 4 and win a few cups.

The issue is how the club is being run, I cant believe some people don’t get that. United is an outlier club, a club run so bad it can’t even buy its way back to success, it takes some amount of muppetry for it to be achieved but here we are
 
Have you not heard? He demanded they play in a certain way, which is fine but if we were to sack him next week, what do we do then?
No I haven't heard that. How do they play and is it good or shit like his 1st teams football.
 
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