Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Rashford, Shaw and Mctomminay are the biggest snakes in that dressing room. The constants. I'm not saying EtH is completely blameless for the state of us at the moment but he nor any manager before him ever had the dressing room. From leaks to sulky players to downing tools, the issue every manager is facing post SAF comes down to a a core few players who have bigger influence than the manager.
 
klayton88 said:
Rashford, Shaw and Mctomminay are the biggest snakes in that dressing room. The constants. I'm not saying EtH is completely blameless for the state of us at the moment but he nor any manager before him ever had the dressing room. From leaks to sulky players to downing tools, the issue every manager is facing post SAF comes down to a a core few players who have bigger influence than the manager.
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I'd even say Rashford, given how prolific he is with his social game. but to me, all managers did not recognize or did not address any under lying problem.
To me, all are same, Moyes, LVG, Mou, Ole & ETH. they had different issues & different timelines, but not going to work.
 
He should contact Eddie Howe and ask him how to implement a proper pressing style.
 
It doesn't feel like he's any way near the sack for me, nothing like in the same place Moyes, LvG, Jose, and Ole, were before they went.

People just want it to be true for some reason, anyone but Ten Hag and then a bit of false hope for while must a strong motivation for some it seems.
 
BorisManUtd said:
This (whole thread)

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I have to say I'm slowly coming around to this view point. Yes, the Glazers have ruined the club and they hold the ultimate responsibility. It's the truth and I've said it many, many times.

But I'm getting tired of blaming them all the time. It's clear now they are not leaving anytime soon, they are here to stay, so it's just meaningless to repeat the same thing over and over again. It's exhausting. They are just a fact of life one has to accept. Or a fact of the club, so to speak. You accept it when dealing with Manchester United in any capacity. The managers who come here should research what they will be dealing with before accepting the job. And I assume Ten Hag has done so, and has accepted it. His fault if he hasn't. It's not a secret. Then he has also accepted the responsibility that comes with that. It's just how it is. The buck stops with him. True enough.
 
Players will get sick of him taking zero responsibility. He talks about togetherness when mentioning how to get out of the mess and it suits, but any bad performances or loss it's all about mistakes or not following his plan. I really do suspect he's a bit of a fraud and doesn't have the answers or ability to recognise the issues.

Even when he complains that he's never been able to play his strongest XI is a kick in the teeth for the players and absolving him of blame. Do we need all our best players on the pitch to see what it is he's trying to do?
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
How do you define 'suitable'?

You could argue that Ten Hag wasn't really a suitable candidate. The hope was that he would be a hidden gem.
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Hidden? On what planet was Ten Hag hidden? He was a successful Ajax manager, after they'd been in a bit of a slump, had made good inroads in Europe, he was well known, if I remember correctly Spurs had an approach for him rebuffed before we went after him.

As for suitability, I mean someone who can fit into the footballing vision we have. Ten Hag was hired with the intention of taking us from where we were, to a place with a style, approach, and culture of football that was more proactive. Someone suitable in this case is someone who can keep us headed down that path, building on the progress that Ten Hag has made. Adopting the mid-block counter attacking approach again would just be a waste, and put us back into the cycle of failure we've been in since Fergie left.
 
Theonas said:
Yes. Because Real don't hire managers, they hire head coaches whose task is to work with what they have. Real Madrid teams identity and personality come from the name and brand itself and the fact that no club in the world can compete with them when it comes to attract the very best players in the world. Their model is unique and the closest club that tried to replicate it was Abramovic's Chelsea, but nobody else functions like them.


Mourinho and Capello are protagonist managers. Hiring both of them was seen at the time as against the grain for the club. It came at a time when they were going through a bad spell especially in the case of Mourinho and desperately needed a "savior" to stop losing to Barcelona.

The others are not protagonist type of managers by any means. They are facilitators who don't impose a strong personality or playing identity on their teams. Del Bosque was the same for Spain when he allowed the strong Barcelona core to dictate the way of playing whereas Ancelotti is the dream head coach of an organisation that wants a diplomat who will know how to handle the board, the ego of big names and steer the ship with minimum personal input in terms of their own ideologie or vision.
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I generally disagree with this. Yes, Real consistently buy the best players. But so do PSG, Barca and to some extent, Chelsea. And yes, these teams do compete on players, though I agree with you, Real has a natural advantage.

What you are saying is that Real tends not to hire strictly ideological coaches/managers. Really, there’s only a few modern managers that fit that profile — Pep, Klopp, Enrique and perhaps Mourinho and Simeone. Most managers/coaches are pragmatists. IMHO, the pragmatist is more a “manager” and the idealist more of a “head coach”. Pep is famous for micromanaging even simple passing sequences.

If you are defining a “protagonist” as a manager that has a notable personality, I suppose you’d be correct in that Zidane and Ancelotti seem bland compared to Klopp or Pep. But both Zidane and Ancelotti carry as much respect, perhaps more, than Klopp and Pep and I don’t think their control over the squad is any less than Klopp or Pep.

This worship and glorification of the idealist(Klopp/Pep) vs the pragmatist is ridiculous. Why are they held in higher regard than Zidane and Ancelotti? Certainly the latter two have an equal or even better record than the former. The latter do not require expensive complete squad turnovers. They are masters at getting the most from the ingredients on hand.

In our case, why is it necessary to hire in the next idealist as a manager? Like Real, we have great spending power. We are one of the richest clubs. We should be buying the best talent, both a youth and senior level, and bringing in the best managers, all the while not allowing standards to drop.
 
frostbite said:
This guy will blame everyone but himself. Reminds me of Mourinho.
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So one guy publicly criticized his players to save his own image and the other is apparently hesitant to do so because of how they might react. Not similar at all.
 
Tom Van Persie said:
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I'd suggest he does his job to the fullest of his ability instead of finding reasons not to do it. If that involves criticising the players then do it, you've got multiple CL winners and finalists in that squad and they can't be told to track back or shoot instead of pass? If you don't tell people where they went wrong how will they ever stop it?
 
Spoony said:
What's made Onana mentality fragile though?
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Well that's one player but even Barthez- a world cup winner struggled for us big time. Pressure at being United's goalkeeper or just not that good to begin with?

As for Maguire, McTominay, Martial, Dalot, Lindelof, Rashfrord, Bruno, Shaw, they've all been with us over 4 or 5 years and played through quite a few hammerings. Sometimes it just feels like a never ending cycle of failure as harsh as that is to say. They remind me of Arsenal's post Invincible team a lot (except they consistently got top 4 for a long time at least)
 
crossy1686 said:
I'd suggest he does his job to the fullest of his ability instead of finding reasons not to do it. If that involves criticising the players then do it, you've got multiple CL winners and finalists in that squad and they can't be told to track back or shoot instead of pass? If you don't tell people where they went wrong how will they ever stop it?
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I'm fairly certain he didn't mean Varane Casemiro and Mount. We've seen with Sancho that at least one member of the squad is unwilling to listen to criticism. I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more who have a similar attitude to Sancho, albeit not to such an extreme.
 
We have to start taking a good look at ten hag, we all now he wants to play dominating football that’s why he signed onana, Martinez and wanted de jong, so can someone explain to me why he makes Bruno captain, he is our worst player for giving the ball away, takes to many touches on the ball and always wants to play a killer pass, I know he has had loads of assists for us and scored a his fair share of goals, I’m just don’t get how we can dominate games with him in the team, rashford isn’t far off him not so much with his passing but more along the lines of running in to numerous defenders when it just isn’t on, I think there was a reason Bruno was so good when we signed him we were playing counter attacking football which suits him more as well as rashford, but if ten hag is being serious he needs to take Bruno out of the game and put Mount in who is much better at ball retention and making us more solid with amrabat and casermiro holding in the midfield, when we have a fit left back , if he persists with playing the favourites even when they play so poor I can’t see us improving, any else feel the same
 
We seem to have 2 modes. Endless slow possession when the opposition doesn't press or leave space and long balls into transition from broken play, in other words hoof it down the line for the fast guy to run on to.

All a bit underwhelming.
 
He keeps picking players displaying lacklustre movement and passing, which speaks to some combination of coaching and judgement (ratio unknown), as well as midfield indiscipline - which again, indicates some combination of bad judgement, bad communication and alienating players.

The problem isn't even so much that games are being lost or we're not picking up enough points - it's 'how'. and the general trend towards stagnation or at best inconsistency Not sure how people keep missing this when they respond to the early-Liverpool Klopp comparisons (and specifically why that Liverpool team looked on a much better footing than us, for all the erratic results).

Glazers are the larger issue, and probably affecting his ability to be as critical of Rashford/drop-him due to combination of 'influence' and commercial considerations. However, if ETH was picking players for intensity, off the ball discipline and making runs for each other to create passing options and progress moves, even if those players were the likes of Gore or generally the less experienced players, then the performances would almost certainly be better....
 
RedRocket9908 said:
He should never have loaned out Alvaro Fernandez, that was a stupid decision.
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We have 3 left backs, our left footed centre back, and our right back (who would allow Dalot to play there) injured. You can't expect the manager to be psychic or have six players for every position.
 
He”ll be gone within a month. He’s well and truly been found out. Tactically clueless and massively out of his depth.
 
USREDEVIL said:
Why do you say he's been "found out"?
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Every single team we play against now knows exactly how to set up to beat us. There is no flexibility with the tactics and setup. Just the same thing game after game.
 
Garethw said:
Every single team we play against now knows exactly how to set up to beat us. There is no flexibility with the tactics and setup. Just the same thing game after game.
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The only real consistency i see in regards to the opposition is that nobody is afraid of us anymore. Everyone is perfectly willing to go at us and attack with numbers, except for Forest i think. Says more about the players IMO.
 
Romez said:
These stories coming out are such BS.

It's literally your job as manager. If players don't have the right attitude then drop them. Change something.
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This...the same players kept getting picked regardless of performance, only changes made are forced...
 
Garethw said:
Every single team we play against now knows exactly how to set up to beat us. There is no flexibility with the tactics and setup. Just the same thing game after game.
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I don't see any consistency to the games we've struggled in, actually. We've had different issues in different games. Many of them directly tied to the absence of key players or positions where we have had literally no appropriate players available.
 
If we had the same squad as Newcastle, the excuse would be that we don't have enough quality. Players will rightly get blamed at times but the manager should be the one to bridge the gap in quality and cohesiveness.
 
At this point the reason I would be happy keeping ETH on would be if it forces out more of the wrong type of attitudes. We need a clear out, have done for years, and it's not necessarily the worst players. He was brought in for a cultural reset, well then he needs to get it done. Make sure you have the backing of the board and get shot of them, irrespective of the results. Thats the project right now. If he can't / isn't able to do it then dead man walking, we've all seen how this ends.

ETH can coach all he wants, but if enough aren't bothered it won't work. The contrast tonight with Newcastle is big enough and it's not all about the coach. Those players, to a man, have things to prove and will run through walls to do it. Not all of ours will, not by a long shot. If it means playing younger players (Hannibal, Garnacho etc) then do it. In the end it will be worth it. We've struggled with it for so long so if another manager is seeing it, effectively saying it, but nothing changes then the next manager, and the next, and the next, will have the same issue.
 


I'm not taking this as gospel, that this has been leaked, but it is clearly true. He inherited a toxic dressing room and he's had to walk a tightrope ever since.

If he was being fully backed the club would have made sure that the players mentioned numerous times throughout summer that were "available for x price" would have been gotten rid off. But the owners do not want to cut losses, they want to chase them. And that's the poisoned chalice Erik took on.
 
Bastian said:


I'm not taking this as gospel, that this has been leaked, but it is clearly true. He inherited a toxic dressing room and he's had to walk a tightrope ever since.
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Who are the toxic elements, though? Sancho is clearly one of them and is on his way out. Question is will ten Hag still be here to oversee the overhaul? He's fast running out of credit.
 
redcucumber said:
Who are the toxic elements, though? Sancho is clearly one of them and is on his way out. Question is will ten Hag still be here to oversee the overhaul? He's fast running out of credit.
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There won't be any overhaul if he's replaced. It will be rinse and repeat for the players. They'll turn a corner for a while, new players will be slowly added and they'll succumb to the malaise plaguing the club.

He's clearly the best manager we've had post SAF in my view. People love to forget last season and what he took over.
 
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