Betting markets hate us, but still model us getting the 5th best points per match for the rest of the season:
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
- Start date
- Status
Good point, but there are 3 or 4 in particular who need to be dropped yesterday. If only to shake things up in the team if nothing else.
Ten Hag might as well do it, things could scarcely get any worse they way they are.
Frankly speaking ETH is on a boat without return. He bought these players so he has to play regardless we win, lose or draw. We will continue to see Antony, Onana, Hoijund, Amrabat, Martinez and Mount to play when fit. Ultimately, he will get sack as it will get backfire.
Is it tho?
We tried a proven PL manager, two of the top 15 managers of the century, one of them being 2nd best to Pep for many years. We tried an OG german, we tried club legend, we tried exciting trending upcoming manager.
You'd say they are crap, I'll say Mou managed to make something out of a dead Roma team, LVG made Netherlands a world beating force (again).
I guess Ole knew better than to try managing another club, and Moyes is just that level - for a great midtable team, that can achieve stuff in 3rd tear European tournaments.
And I'm 100% sure that once ETH gets sacked, he'll be massively successful in his next team.
The question is - what is the answer for Manchester United? Let's say that Glazers are awesome and amazing owners and all our problems come from bad managers.
Who is the next chosen one?
I think he's compromised too much on his ideals. Look at that Ajax clip in the previous page and tell me Bruno, Rashford and Casemiro are attempting to play that kind of football.
Coaching wise we’ve not come along nearly as quickly or as well as I’d have expected at this point under Ten Hag. That I simply can’t deny or comprehend, the improvement in our football is happening at a glacial pace.
Forget football, there isn't a single organization in the world that would do that.
I've worked with many large, multi-billion dollar corporations in my career - some of whom were very poorly run. Not a single one of them would hire a new executive and on day 1 tell them "here's half a billion dollars, do whatever you want with it".
He's spent 90m on Antony, 60m on Mount, 72m on Hojlund and 70m on an ageing Casemiro. That's 302m on players who wouldn't start for Arsenal, let alone Man City
Exactly, just because the owners and structure is shite does not mean ETH is vindicated. Hes already spent 400 million, half of it on rubbish we will struggle with long after hes gone
“Fool me once, strike one. Fool me twice, strike three.”
How many bad right wingers we have signed? Should we stop signing new ones in the hope that Sancho, Antony, Pellestri, Diallo and co are gonna become Ronaldinho?
Just cause you know you fecked up, shouldn't stop from making changes in the fear that you'll feck up again.
I really don’t like that he seemed to have chosen to adapt to the type of players we had rather than impose the style of play we all saw and liked when he was at Ajax. Going from chasing De Jong all summer to a completely different profile in Casemiro was head scratching and I think that was what sealed it for Ten Hag to play a much more direct transitional style
The changes will be irrelevant until there is changes above the manager.
I think crap is too strong a word but I said this the other day in another thread, what has any manager done since leaving United ? They've all represented mediocrity, the best is Mourinho and it's not even due to accomplishment but rather going to other clubs that are successful at their levels with Roma and Spurs respectively. EtH has just as much to prove as many of the players, there's still question marks over his capacity at management this season and potentially the next campaign will ultimately determine his level and career.
It's hilarious that people genuinely think the dart board approach is going to what brings us out of this ten year slump. Sure worked for us with those right wingers.
In an unrelated note, here's a picture from ten years ago that features just one person that's been here for that entire period of continual failure (Jonny at least managed to mostly avoid it).
In an unrelated note, here's a picture from ten years ago that features just one person that's been here for that entire period of continual failure (Jonny at least managed to mostly avoid it).
Still want to keep him but he's hanging on to a very small rope. I do like the high press/high transition style he's trying to embed in.
Right now it still looks like the players are buying into it but honestly if it keeps going on like this with the results, any group of players are going to down tools and stop trying.
If that happens he's out whether we want him or not. He needs to stop the bleeding right now more than anything else. Honestly he's been stubborn against being pragmatic when he should and that may cost him. Brentford next and it's going to be rough.
He needs to drop Bruno, he keeps being wasteful and gives the ball away, choose a more efficient offense that will do the basics right once we win the ball back. I really believe that will also reduce the amount of opposition transitions as well. That's a starting point for me
Right now it still looks like the players are buying into it but honestly if it keeps going on like this with the results, any group of players are going to down tools and stop trying.
If that happens he's out whether we want him or not. He needs to stop the bleeding right now more than anything else. Honestly he's been stubborn against being pragmatic when he should and that may cost him. Brentford next and it's going to be rough.
He needs to drop Bruno, he keeps being wasteful and gives the ball away, choose a more efficient offense that will do the basics right once we win the ball back. I really believe that will also reduce the amount of opposition transitions as well. That's a starting point for me
Last edited:
Does anyone actually believe that ETH has it in him to get a United team, even with 4, 5, 6 or 7 more transfer windows of buying players that he wants, to genuinely compete with City for a title?
I do not agree. I don’t think that the management above the manager being shit, and the manager being shit are mutually exclusive. Both of them can be out of their depth, and improving either of them will improve things (albeit not fix the entire issue).
For what is worth, I think that improving the organization above the manager is more important than replacing the manager. But ideally we need to improve both.
Nobody said we need to hit the reset button. It's what people who want to keep ETH at all costs are saying will happen if we "change yet another manager which we've tried before and it didn't work". That's the only issue I have with it, it's a logical fallacy. Imagine saying "we shouldn't be buying strikers anymore, we've tried that a few times and it didn't work". Sure, maybe we could do a better job picking a more suitable striker but that's no reason to keep one who can't score. It if continues like this under ETH, he'll have to go.
Then how come we're good for a season or two then bad a season if the environment is the problem? I'm not saying it isn't toxic due to the board but managers get players to play well within a system then it all goes to shit when a manager starts bringing in his own players.
We can't do anything defensively. But going into every match knowing before a ball is kicked our captain will panic spaff the ball around aimlessly and our superstar player will take 65% of every chance we create and run it into the ground - these are things the manager has the power to change by instructions/ team selection.
Even amongst the dross there are signs of life there but there's so much clutter and built-in disadvantage. Amrabat, Casemiro and Mount need to be the players we have on the ball. Not standing around whilst Bruno Gerrard-Fernandes plays with all the composure of an elephant who's just seen a mouse and watch Rashford disappear into the abyss almost every time he gets the ball.
With these three players in the midfield to feed Holjund, with his physical and finishing attributes we would score more than we do. We'd still have defensive frailties but this would at least be a way to mitigate them until we get players back from injury.
Even amongst the dross there are signs of life there but there's so much clutter and built-in disadvantage. Amrabat, Casemiro and Mount need to be the players we have on the ball. Not standing around whilst Bruno Gerrard-Fernandes plays with all the composure of an elephant who's just seen a mouse and watch Rashford disappear into the abyss almost every time he gets the ball.
With these three players in the midfield to feed Holjund, with his physical and finishing attributes we would score more than we do. We'd still have defensive frailties but this would at least be a way to mitigate them until we get players back from injury.
I think there are more examples of chopping and changing than of appointing from a list of succession candidates, across major football clubs in Europe.
The unfortunate reality is that clubs often sack managers because the results are dire and they feel they must 'rescue' the season. When that happens, clubs have a very limited choice of manager: whoever is currently available. And usually they are looking for a change, they are firing a manager because things aren't working in the first place.
Maybe some of the opinions are like that, but from what I've seen, most of the comments in favour of the manager is that there isn't a suitable candidate out there. The candidate I've heard mentioned most often on here is De Zerbi, which is a ridiculous suggestion.
Genuinely, if you have a replacement in mind, and can make the case as to why they'd be a good fit, I'll happily get on board.
The defensive fall off is frightening and is clearly the biggest issue. we're shipping goals and it spreads through the squad. The mitigating factor is injuries - AWB, Martinez and Shaw were regulars last year and weve barely seen them. When Martinez was out, shaw did excellently at CB, but shaw is out. And to have 4 injured full backs at one time is a freak occurrence, leading to a new signing, right footed midfielder to play left back.
We need to see some sort of stability in the backline before losing our minds. The start means that top 4 is our only realistic goal for the league, but that was probably the case anyway.
There's no point in losing our heads. On that note, is there any idea of when our full backs are fit?
We need to see some sort of stability in the backline before losing our minds. The start means that top 4 is our only realistic goal for the league, but that was probably the case anyway.
There's no point in losing our heads. On that note, is there any idea of when our full backs are fit?
So apt ..Isnt it Ten Hags primary objective as the gallion figure of the club to install the type of mentality where you dont stop until its over?
He is the one responsible for the culture on the training pitch and the dressing room now.
I mean, I know what you're saying. But to be honest, if I had the ability to spot who the perfect United manager would be, I'd probably be paid millions instead of writing this on an internet forum.
De Zerbi probably wouldn't be a success people think he would be but he's a good example of this. Most people hadn't even heard of him before he arrived to Brighton. Most didn't think Postecoglou would have such instant impact either. There's a reasonable possibility there's another De Zerbi out there who could take this club out of the mess it is in. The Glazers are bad owners but reasonable success even under them should be possible. ETH has realistically had the backing that most managers can only dream of. SAF won everything that could be won under those same owners. There's only one SAF but again, it doesn't have to be like it currently is either.
How do you define 'suitable'?
You could argue that Ten Hag wasn't really a suitable candidate. The hope was that he would be a hidden gem.
But this is misreading the way in which they are bad owners. They're bad owners because they don't care about the football club beyond its commercial success, and aren't willing to ensure that the club as an operation is built first and foremost to being the best possible club at football. If we do as we've been doing the last ten years - not winning much but still getting into europe every other year to keep the tv money and sponsorships coming in - we're a success in their eyes. If we're doing alarmingly badly at any point, they'll change the most obvious public face (the manager), we'll have a temporary bump in fortunes to keep the gravy train running, and the cycle repeats. Woodward's position only became untenable after the Super League fiasco, not because of anything that happened on the pitch. Arnold and Murtough got promoted.
Can we be better than we currently are? Yeah. Is there a manager out there that can, on his own, turn us into someone that can topple City while the rest of the structure remains in tact? Doubt it. That's not to absolve ten Hag from any responsibility - if we go into Saturday with Amrabat at left back and Bruno in the middle and see the same performance and result, that's on ten Hag and he'll eventually get sacked, no doubt. I think he can succeed with the right setup, but it would be clear that we bring out the worst traits in each other. Just not sure there are many that would fare much better.
Well yes obviously, but it's been a problem for several years now. Player power has also been talked about quite a lot. There's no quick fix for issues like these.
What better option is there at left back? Someone from one of the youth teams?
Any defender. He's either good enough to play for us in his preferred position so needs to play there where we need him, or not good enough to play for us so we shouldn't be exacerbating it by playing him out of position. It's possible that he plays there on Saturday and has a worldie, I don't know, I'm just saying if he doesn't and we lose, the signs were there and were ignored.
Given the absolute hammerings we've had over the past 3 managers under Ole, Ralf and EtH it's not surprising a lot of these players are mentally fragile. That's why the club had to have a better summer in terms of getting rid of players that needed to be sold.
I don't any similarities at all, other than the shit football on display.
Getting real tired of these "sources close to..." leaks / briefs we've been getting over the last few years.
What's made Onana mentality fragile though?
knives are out, matter of time now.
- Status