Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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AngliaRed said:
So when do we all think the storm clouds form above ETH and the board start thinking about a new manager?

I think hes safe now, just, but a loss Tuesday and a couple of bad PL results and I think his days could be numbered.

My opinion is I back his values and standards that he is bringing which are needed but I still cannot see what style of football we are playing. His team selections and substitues baffle me at times.
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Personally think he’s lost/on the verge of losing the dressing room. Told Mctominay and Maguire to get fecked in the summer. We didnt sell them, now injuries/failed recruitment means we need to play them. They are mentally checked out.

We destroyed Mourinho for his public attacks on players. The Sancho situation - have a private but stern word, bench him with no intention to sub him on. So badly handled.

dont see the ‘injured’ players returning as some sort of cavalry coming in like many. We had them in the first few games and were dross. Returned to a Casemiro, Mount Bruno midfield yesterday for god sake. Fans already turning, was obvious when they booed martial on for Hojlund.

I’d be very surprised if he turns this round now unfortunately. The abject failure of this summers transfer window to build on last season have made it impossible not to stagnate.
 
Jezpeza said:
Personally think he’s lost/on the verge of losing the dressing room. Told Mctominay and Maguire to get fecked in the summer. We didnt sell them, now injuries/failed recruitment means we need to play them. They are mentally checked out.

We destroyed Mourinho for his public attacks on players. The Sancho situation - have a private but stern word, bench him with no intention to sub him on. So badly handled.

dont see the ‘injured’ players returning as some sort of cavalry coming in like many. We had them in the first few games and were dross. Returned to a Casemiro, Mount Bruno midfield yesterday for god sake. Fans already turning, was obvious when they booed martial on for Hojlund.

I’d be very surprised if he turns this round now unfortunately. The abject failure of this summers transfer window to build on last season have made it impossible not to stagnate.
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I dont disagree but who would replace him? Who would even take the job? Will the Glazers try an easy win and give to Rooney/Giggs/Carrick for short team feeling or actually look for a capable successor.
 
AngliaRed said:
So when do we all think the storm clouds form above ETH and the board start thinking about a new manager?

I think hes safe now, just, but a loss Tuesday and a couple of bad PL results and I think his days could be numbered.

My opinion is I back his values and standards that he is bringing which are needed but I still cannot see what style of football we are playing. His team selections and substitues baffle me at times.
Click to expand...

I am of the opinion that the focus should be on those above and certainly the ownership. There has been too much crap off the field to deal with. Arteta was allowed to finish 8th,8th and 5th. Yes, he has been given money to spend, but the second season the amount needed was nowhere near enough. You need more than 3 players in to permanently implement the playing style.

So with the combination of failing to sell players and the Glazers not investing own money in order to alleviate the financial fair play restrictions has screwed a lot up.

I think people should grit their teeth and focus on the second half of the season.
 
Jezpeza said:
Personally think he’s lost/on the verge of losing the dressing room. Told Mctominay and Maguire to get fecked in the summer. We didnt sell them, now injuries/failed recruitment means we need to play them. They are mentally checked out.

We destroyed Mourinho for his public attacks on players. The Sancho situation - have a private but stern word, bench him with no intention to sub him on. So badly handled.

dont see the ‘injured’ players returning as some sort of cavalry coming in like many. We had them in the first few games and were dross. Returned to a Casemiro, Mount Bruno midfield yesterday for god sake. Fans already turning, was obvious when they booed martial on for Hojlund.

I’d be very surprised if he turns this round now unfortunately. The abject failure of this summers transfer window to build on last season have made it impossible not to stagnate.
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I'm afraid so, think you're right. We're showing dissatisfaction relatively quickly this time which just shows how confidence has evaporated.
 
AngliaRed said:
I dont disagree but who would replace him? Who would even take the job? Will the Glazers try an easy win and give to Rooney/Giggs/Carrick for short team feeling or actually look for a capable successor.
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That I dont know. Thats the problem. Most likely a fan favourite ex player again. He did well last season but we cant keep getting turned over every week and ‘give him more time’. The teams in the bottom 6 dont even do that. Couple of months is a very long time in football. To be honest, he isn't helping himself by sticking to what doesn't work or we lack personnel for.
 
Really am curious about what his next team lineup will be.
Really hope it's not similar but dropping pellestri for Hannibal and pushing Bruno out wide.

The biggest worry for me regarding Eth is it seems like he's not learning. Granted he's got a shit show with regards to issues surrounding some of our players outside of football + all the injuries,but we should still have enough to beat palace at home.
His subs were a worry, he basically just kept it the same but made like for like subs. He changed personnel which was easy for palace rather than trying to change formation or style.

NinjaZombie said:
His team selection yesterday is worrying. Needs to stop playing some of the senior players, who are letting the team down.
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Something like this. Bruno, mount casemiro just made no sense. Yet it happened again. If you're gonna have those three then you need one more midfielder like Hannibal or pushing ambrabat actually into the middle, then you need your fullbacks to actually be proper wingbacks going up and down which allows for two strikers.

We play a hybrid mix of three different formations that it just becomes a mess and we have players not in sync
 
Yorke to Cole said:
I am of the opinion that the focus should be on those above and certainly the ownership. There has been too much crap off the field to deal with. Arteta was allowed to finish 8th,8th and 5th. Yes, he has been given money to spend, but the second season the amount needed was nowhere near enough. You need more than 3 players in to permanently implement the playing style.

So with the combination of failing to sell players and the Glazers not investing own money in order to alleviate the financial fair play restrictions has screwed a lot up.

I think people should grit their teeth and focus on the second half of the season.
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I don't get the consistent comparison with Arsenal. Manchester United is a far bigger club than Arsenal with higher set of expectations it isn't even a contest. Don't people here realize how huge United is supposed to be as a club ? If anything, it's a disaster that Arsenal managed to compete for the league before Man United could post Ferguson.
 
I think if he comes out Tuesday night and start this 11 and we win he will win a lot of doubting fans back instantly.

Dropping Rashford & Casemiro.

—————-Onana—————
Lindelof-Varane-Evans-Dalot
———Amrabat—Mount———-
—————--Bruno————
Garnacho————Martial
—————Hojland———
 
Lentwood said:
If we were debating a lack of Premier League titles and/or Champions League trophies then I might accept this argument.

The problem is that the squad we have now has been largely put together by ETH and should have more than enough quality to be finishing top four. Or at the very least, look like there's some kind of system or plan.

I defended OGS, LvG and Jose because I felt they were all let down by Woodward. ETH has been allowed to make some huge decisions and the players he's bought in have been his own picks at great expense...and yet we still look completely dysfunctional
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You make several points, and none of them are reasonable or even accurate.

Firstly, the squad hasn't been largely put together by Ten Hag, he's already finished in the top 4 (we were 3rd last season, remember?), and the system he's trying to implement is painfully obvious, it's just that the players aren't able to perfect it yet, partly because so many of our first choice players are out injured.

It's just lazy criticism. You could expect him to have implement the style quickly and without issue, which while being unreasonable is at least criticising a problem we actually have, but suggesting there isn't a plan is ignoring what's actually happening on the pitch.
 
pocco said:
This is all well and good but what do we know really? Half the Caf said Arteta was shit. Nobody knew De Zerbi. Nobody expected Howe to be anything other than a stop gap at Newcastle. It's hard to predict who will click with a group of players and the fans, but there will be managers out there that would do better than ETH. Numerous managers have been mentioned already who could potentiate do a good job. If the next one fails then you try somebody else until something works. And that doesn't mean giving them years and unlimited budget to deliver, only we do that.
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We're trying to get out of the cycle of chopping and changing managers, it hasn't worked so far and it's a big reason we're in this mess. We need to give managers some agreed time, and we need to engage in some succession planning so that if things go wrong, we bring in a manger with a similar vision/philosophy to continue building in a particular direction.
 
The Hilton said:
We're trying to get out of the cycle of chopping and changing managers, it hasn't worked so far and it's a big reason we're in this mess. We need to give managers some agreed time, and we need to engage in some succession planning so that if things go wrong, we bring in a manger with a similar vision/philosophy to continue building in a particular direction.
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The most successful club side ever chops and changes managers.

We're in this mess for loads of reasons and also because we keep employing managers who aren't good enough(yes the jury is out on ETH too). People on here constantly make excuses for the manager until the reality sets in.

I'm not ETH out, but he's got a lot to prove and any goodwill he built up last season is evaporating quickly. Losing 4 times in the league from 7 games is indefensible.

None of Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose or Ole were going to be a huge success with more time and their career post-United proves that point.
 
Ubik said:
Wrong again, we needed a point out of our last two games (the Chelsea match was our game in hand). We made harder work than we should, and I probably wouldn't describe it as comfortable, but you're just doing the opposite and worse in the other direction. All this pig-headed "I'm right, everything about ten Hag sucks, facts be damned" stuff is really, really tiresome. There's enough bad stuff to pick up on without it.
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I haven’t done any of that, I was responding to a poster that said we comfortably got top 3 last season
 
AngliaRed said:
I think if he comes out Tuesday night and start this 11 and we win he will win a lot of doubting fans back instantly.

Dropping Rashford & Casemiro.

—————-Onana—————
Lindelof-Varane-Evans-Dalot
———Amrabat—Mount———-
—————--Bruno————
Garnacho————Martial
—————Hojland———
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He definitely needs to play Dalot at LB over Amrabat but I would like to see Case and Amrabat pairing in MF over Mount. Mount and Bruno are all over the place when both are on the pitch. I’d even be happy to see Mount over Bruno but this is the odd game where Bruno will show up. Whatever happens, Rashford needs a rest. Bring him on as a late sub.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
The most successful club side ever chops and changes managers.

We're in this mess for loads of reasons and also because we keep employing managers who aren't good enough(yes the jury is out on ETH too). People on here constantly make excuses for the manager until the reality sets in.

I'm not ETH out, but he's got a lot to prove and any goodwill he built up last season is evaporating quickly. Losing 4 times in the league from 7 games is indefensible.

None of Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose or Ole were going to be a huge success with more time and their career post-United proves that point.
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No, but the point is that changing the manager gives everyone the "things will now change!" buzz and the clock resets. We finally looked like we might be about to change things properly after Ole but we fecked that up as well, ending up with a load more jobs for the boys and the same mistakes made again and again. It's really high time that fans stop thinking a manager change is going to fix everything and demand something more fundamental first and foremost or we'll be saying this shit again in two years.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
The most successful club side ever chops and changes managers.

We're in this mess for loads of reasons and also because we keep employing managers who aren't good enough(yes the jury is out on ETH too). People on here constantly make excuses for the manager until the reality sets in.

I'm not ETH out, but he's got a lot to prove and any goodwill he built up last season is evaporating quickly. Losing 4 times in the league from 7 games is indefensible.

None of Moyes, Van Gaal, Jose or Ole were going to be a huge success with more time and their career post-United proves that point.
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All of the currently successful clubs around at the moment have a footballing structure that sets the style/philosophy, identifies targets, and brings in managers with a similar vision. None of them are just chopping and changing, there's succession planning with a shortlist of suitable candidates to take over a team built to play that style. The very best side around at the moment had been planning for their current manager for a decade, with the club basically built around bringing him in.

We don't have any of that, our footballing structure is in its infancy. Anyone could come in and get us back into a mid block and playing on the counter, and we'd get a nice new manager bounce, but we'd be back to square one in terms of moving to a more proactive style of football, and we'll have to start the process again (and go through the same downturn in form we're in now as the team tries to adapt).
 
The lack of goals under Ten Hag is the biggest concern. This season shows little to no sign that area of play has improved whilst defensively we’ve regressed based on a variety of factors.

I’m not seeing any distinct style of play under him and he’s now under even more pressure by needing to bring back in his summer outcasts due to a disastrous injury crisis and alarming lack of fitness.

When it rains it pours (through a leaky roof) at this club these days. He has an almighty job on his hands to turn this mess around.
 
Palace league game was interesting as they were largely happy without the ball so you you could really see what Ten Hag wants to do in terms of build up against a mid block as well as some of the issues.

-United cycled through a very high number of permutations in terms of the positioning of the back four plus Casemiro during build up. Back two with fullbacks wide and Casemiro alone, back three with Amrabat moving into CM, back three with Casemiro dropping between the CBs and fullbacks pinching, back three with Amrabat moving between the CBs. Too many in my view, more than you’ll see Arsenal or City ever use. I can see the advantage of unpredictability but for a side learning to play this way it just seemed counterproductive.

-Varane is a big problem and maybe one reason Ten Hag kept dropping CMs into the middle of the back line. The center man in a back three simply has to be a very good passer for any team that wants to build play that way and Varane just doesn’t have the passing quality or confidence.

-Overall the passing from the back five just isn’t good enough in terms of moving the ball crisply and with tempo forward. Lots of passes to the wrong foot, bouncing when they need to be on the carpet, hit a touch too late, etc.

-United’s wingers were a bigger issue than Mount and Bruno. I’m not sure Pellistri is even a PL quality player, let alone a United player. Rashford just doesn’t naturally look to do the things (hold the ball under pressure, combine with the attacking midfielder on his side) that wingers need to do in this kind of system. Antony is a limited player but he is better at these things than any other United winger.

Overall I think Ten Hag is trying to change how the side plays but he doesn’t really have the right pieces to do it (partly a problem of his own making). He also seems to be over complicating some things.
 
AngliaRed said:
I think if he comes out Tuesday night and start this 11 and we win he will win a lot of doubting fans back instantly.

Dropping Rashford & Casemiro.

—————-Onana—————
Lindelof-Varane-Evans-Dalot
———Amrabat—Mount———-
—————--Bruno————
Garnacho————Martial
—————Hojland———
Click to expand...

Like the look of this. Has Lindelof played in RB much for us?
 
el3mel said:
I don't get the consistent comparison with Arsenal. Manchester United is a far bigger club than Arsenal with higher set of expectations it isn't even a contest. Don't people here realize how huge United is supposed to be as a club ? If anything, it's a disaster that Arsenal managed to compete for the league before Man United could post Ferguson.
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That may well be the case, but have you seen United over the past 9 years?

We are "bigger" in terms of fanbase and getting sponsorship deals in,, but we are not performing on the pitch.To undo the best part of a decade of poor signings, under investment in the facilities, youth system, infrastructure etc.is not going to happen overnight, or even one season. You need to have patience and implement building blocks or stepping stones to get to challenging again.

It is going to take far more investment than 3 signings a summer, better sports science departments that are capable of detecting whether a players fractured foot has properly healed, better CEO and better owners.

The days where it was just down to the manager are over. The ethos of sporting excellence needs to run through every department of the club, from the owners, to the coach and the players and staff and even everyone working within the club (as you have seen with leaks coming out and people threatening to resign if a player is reinstated). Everyone has to be on the same page.

I firmly believe that and this past close season and start to the season is evidence to emphasise that point.
 
Powderfinger said:
Palace league game was interesting as they were largely happy without the ball so you you could really see what Ten Hag wants to do in terms of build up against a mid block as well as some of the issues.

-United cycled through a very high number of permutations in terms of the positioning of the back four plus Casemiro during build up. Back two with fullbacks wide and Casemiro alone, back three with Amrabat moving into CM, back three with Casemiro dropping between the CBs and fullbacks pinching, back three with Amrabat moving between the CBs. Too many in my view, more than you’ll see Arsenal or City ever use. I can see the advantage of unpredictability but for a side learning to play this way it just seemed counterproductive.

-Varane is a big problem and maybe one reason Ten Hag kept dropping CMs into the middle of the back line. The center man in a back three simply has to be a very good passer for any team that wants to build play that way and Varane just doesn’t have the passing quality or confidence.

-Overall the passing from the back five just isn’t good enough in terms of moving the ball crisply and with tempo forward. Lots of passes to the wrong foot, bouncing when they need to be on the carpet, hit a touch too late, etc.

-United’s wingers were a bigger issue than Mount and Bruno. I’m not sure Pellistri is even a PL quality player, let alone a United player. Rashford just doesn’t naturally look to do the things (hold the ball under pressure, combine with the attacking midfielder on his side) that wingers need to do in this kind of system. Antony is a limited player but he is better at these things than any other United winger.

Overall I think Ten Hag is trying to change how the side plays but he doesn’t really have the right pieces to do it (partly a problem of his own making). He also seems to be over complicating some things.
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Well put.

There was a reason why he wanted a CB but couldn't get. I feel he needs another window or two to get his preferred players. I can easily the likes of Maguire Mctominay Martial Varane Casemiro Sancho Eriksen to name some all leaving.
 
steffyr2 said:
He is?
How can you tell?
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He showed it at all his previous clubs and then had a pretty good first season with us last year. We're a shambles top to bottom, not a fair environment to judge a coach in my opinion.

I think he's good.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
So if he fails this year (finishing outside top 4) you would reward him by setting minimum goal for next year?

In first season goal is top 4. In second season it should be title challenge and in a third season goal is winning a title.
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Unrealistic goals, I think without distraction next year he has no excuse but to finish top 4. If he doesn't then he should be sack. We can only challenge probably 2026.
 
AngliaRed said:
I think if he comes out Tuesday night and start this 11 and we win he will win a lot of doubting fans back instantly.

Dropping Rashford & Casemiro.

—————-Onana—————
Lindelof-Varane-Evans-Dalot
———Amrabat—Mount———-
—————--Bruno————
Garnacho————Martial
—————Hojland———
Click to expand...
I agree we should mix it up but I just dont see Martial and Lindelof being effective at all (Martial at this position and Lindelof anywhere) but thats just nitpicking I guess. The reason Rashford is probably undroppable is our lack of players on this position not the fact that I dont agree with you that he shouldnt be dropped.
But yeah I get your general idea and being 3 and 4 in the PL we really dont have nothing to lose and I asume that is what you are saying
 
AngliaRed said:
I think if he comes out Tuesday night and start this 11 and we win he will win a lot of doubting fans back instantly.

Dropping Rashford & Casemiro.

—————-Onana—————
Lindelof-Varane-Evans-Dalot
———Amrabat—Mount———-
—————--Bruno————
Garnacho————Martial
—————Hojland———
Click to expand...

And what happens after this team loses 0-5?
 
el3mel said:
I don't get the consistent comparison with Arsenal. Manchester United is a far bigger club than Arsenal with higher set of expectations it isn't even a contest. Don't people here realize how huge United is supposed to be as a club ? If anything, it's a disaster that Arsenal managed to compete for the league before Man United could post Ferguson.
Click to expand...

I think fans base can only get smaller, the United mostly are late 30s to 50s. Without success, City, Liverpool and even Arsenal will start gaining fans. United will not dare call themselves the biggest club in the world.
 
Powderfinger said:
Palace league game was interesting as they were largely happy without the ball so you you could really see what Ten Hag wants to do in terms of build up against a mid block as well as some of the issues.

-United cycled through a very high number of permutations in terms of the positioning of the back four plus Casemiro during build up. Back two with fullbacks wide and Casemiro alone, back three with Amrabat moving into CM, back three with Casemiro dropping between the CBs and fullbacks pinching, back three with Amrabat moving between the CBs. Too many in my view, more than you’ll see Arsenal or City ever use. I can see the advantage of unpredictability but for a side learning to play this way it just seemed counterproductive.

-Varane is a big problem and maybe one reason Ten Hag kept dropping CMs into the middle of the back line. The center man in a back three simply has to be a very good passer for any team that wants to build play that way and Varane just doesn’t have the passing quality or confidence.

-Overall the passing from the back five just isn’t good enough in terms of moving the ball crisply and with tempo forward. Lots of passes to the wrong foot, bouncing when they need to be on the carpet, hit a touch too late, etc.

-United’s wingers were a bigger issue than Mount and Bruno. I’m not sure Pellistri is even a PL quality player, let alone a United player. Rashford just doesn’t naturally look to do the things (hold the ball under pressure, combine with the attacking midfielder on his side) that wingers need to do in this kind of system. Antony is a limited player but he is better at these things than any other United winger.

Overall I think Ten Hag is trying to change how the side plays but he doesn’t really have the right pieces to do it (partly a problem of his own making). He also seems to be over complicating some things.
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Then why were United playing great football for the first half a season of Ten Hag's appointment? How do you regress to a worse kind of football the longer you have the players to work with?
 
crossy1686 said:
Then why were United playing great football for the first half a season of Ten Hag's appointment? How do you regress to a worse kind of football the longer you have the players to work with?
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I like Ten Hag, but I don’t think the footballs ever been that great under him all that often. We were winning games though. Still waiting for it to truly click and fall into place. Maybe I need a reminder of the great football. Away at Barca was great I remember that.
 
The Hilton said:
You make several points, and none of them are reasonable or even accurate.

Firstly, the squad hasn't been largely put together by Ten Hag, he's already finished in the top 4 (we were 3rd last season, remember?), and the system he's trying to implement is painfully obvious, it's just that the players aren't able to perfect it yet, partly because so many of our first choice players are out injured.

It's just lazy criticism. You could expect him to have implement the style quickly and without issue, which while being unreasonable is at least criticising a problem we actually have, but suggesting there isn't a plan is ignoring what's actually happening on the pitch.
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ETH has overseen the arrival of Onana, Altay, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hojlund, Evans, Reguilon and Eriksen. That's 12 out of a traditional 23 man squad. He's also been responsible for promoting Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's been allowed to let our highest profile player (Ronaldo) and our longest serving player (DDG) leave on a free. He's also sidelined the club captain. Our joint-highest earner and £73m winger is currently suspended from training or playing.

At this point, I don't think we can say its not "his" team.

On the subject of his tactics. Yes, you can argue he hasn't had enough time. I've made that argument to defend ETH too. But what is enough 'time' for us not to have one of the worst defensive records in the league? To be without an away win against a top half team? To not be losing at home to Palace and Brighton? To not be hit for 7 by Liverpool or 6 by Manchester City?

Most concerning for me is not the results in isolation, it's that the system he is trying to implement looks so painfully complicated. CBs running forward to receive passes. Fullbacks tucking into midfield. Casemiro, at 31, charging around the pitch seemingly playing like a box-to-box midfielder. Rashford literally still only being able to do one thing (cut in from the left and shoot) and Mount and Fernandes not working together so far (although that is very early days).

I don't see how these concerns are 'lazy criticisms'. We've seen many strange decisions and strange results under ETH, but we've trusted the process. At what point do we say 'does this guy actually have what it takes?'

I like some of what he has done. Unlike many, I don't really have a problem with his signings, necessarily. I like his strong decisions with Ronaldo, Maguire and DDG. I like the talk of discipline and hard work. The problem for me is, he'll ultimately be judged mainly by results but also by the manner of our performances - and if both don't improve very quickly, I think it's time to look elsewhere.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Probably we are signing substandard players and substandard managers.
All the two aspect maybe true at the same time.

If ETH is a good coach, he should coach the team/players he has. That is not rocket science. It's what he's paid to do. Coach the fcuking team.
Let your ego match your coaching calibre.

But now, it looks like ETH has Sir Alex ego with Ole coaching abilities. Very disappointing really.
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That is a pretty good description.
 
The simple fact is that:
We don't have good enough people running the club. At all levels.
And as a result, the club we all love is not going to be successful because they are not doing their jobs well enough.
And we don't have good enough coaches. And as a result, we don't have a proper football identity.
And we don't have good enough players playing for the club.
And the outcome of this is....we are not performing well enough at all levels.

It hurts me and every other passionate supporter of the club to see the mess our football club is in.
 
The Hilton said:
We're trying to get out of the cycle of chopping and changing managers, it hasn't worked so far and it's a big reason we're in this mess. We need to give managers some agreed time, and we need to engage in some succession planning so that if things go wrong, we bring in a manger with a similar vision/philosophy to continue building in a particular direction.
Click to expand...
What is there suggest this is the case other than fans thinking this is how football works? What other club gives a manager "agreed time"? Especially when that agreed time appears to be 3+ years at least in our case. Anyobody who has any say in how a football club is run would say that's madness. For a good reason.
 
Rista said:
What is there suggest this is the case other than fans thinking this is how football works? What other club gives a manager "agreed time"? Especially when that agreed time appears to be 3+ years at least in our case. Anyobody who has any say in how a football club is run would say that's madness. For a good reason.
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Interesting that you make the distinction between fans and "anyone who has any say in how a football club is run". Which football club do you have a say in? Or are you just a fan too, despite your condescending post insinuating otherwise?

It's funny as Arsenal are an excellent current example of how you're completely wrong, they tried chopping and changing, ended up with a mess of a squad, and so gave Arteta time to overhaul things and have been rewarded. Hopefully the folks that run our club have a similar patience and foresight.
 
Lentwood said:
ETH has overseen the arrival of Onana, Altay, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hojlund, Evans, Reguilon and Eriksen. That's 12 out of a traditional 23 man squad. He's also been responsible for promoting Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's been allowed to let our highest profile player (Ronaldo) and our longest serving player (DDG) leave on a free. He's also sidelined the club captain. Our joint-highest earner and £73m winger is currently suspended from training or playing.

At this point, I don't think we can say its not "his" team.

On the subject of his tactics. Yes, you can argue he hasn't had enough time. I've made that argument to defend ETH too. But what is enough 'time' for us not to have one of the worst defensive records in the league? To be without an away win against a top half team? To not be losing at home to Palace and Brighton? To not be hit for 7 by Liverpool or 6 by Manchester City?

Most concerning for me is not the results in isolation, it's that the system he is trying to implement looks so painfully complicated. CBs running forward to receive passes. Fullbacks tucking into midfield. Casemiro, at 31, charging around the pitch seemingly playing like a box-to-box midfielder. Rashford literally still only being able to do one thing (cut in from the left and shoot) and Mount and Fernandes not working together so far (although that is very early days).

I don't see how these concerns are 'lazy criticisms'. We've seen many strange decisions and strange results under ETH, but we've trusted the process. At what point do we say 'does this guy actually have what it takes?'

I like some of what he has done. Unlike many, I don't really have a problem with his signings, necessarily. I like his strong decisions with Ronaldo, Maguire and DDG. I like the talk of discipline and hard work. The problem for me is, he'll ultimately be judged mainly by results but also by the manner of our performances - and if both don't improve very quickly, I think it's time to look elsewhere.
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A gem of a post. Very well said.
 
EFL Cup win has got him quite a bit of goodwill among our fanbase as our level this year is not really better than it was in Ole's final weeks (it's arguably even worse as we at least had had a few good games that season before we got rid of Ole), and back then everyone pretty much unequivocally thought he should have been fired as soon as possible. I wonder it the same had applied to Ole in 2021 if only DDG was able to save a penalty or two in EL final against Villarreal.
 
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