Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Lentwood said:
ETH has overseen the arrival of Onana, Altay, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hojlund, Evans, Reguilon and Eriksen. That's 12 out of a traditional 23 man squad. He's also been responsible for promoting Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's been allowed to let our highest profile player (Ronaldo) and our longest serving player (DDG) leave on a free. He's also sidelined the club captain. Our joint-highest earner and £73m winger is currently suspended from training or playing.

At this point, I don't think we can say its not "his" team.
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The Athletic tried to make this point a couple of weeks back and I couldn't disagree more.

First of all, signing players doesn't suddenly make it the managers team, they take time to bed in.

Second of all, Malacia and Martinez are injured, Altay can't be considered integral to the team and will unlikely play any game of significance if we can help it. Antony has been out of the squad. Reguilon is an emergency signing, sam with Evans. Mount, Hojlund and Amrabat have barely had any time to bed in.

Thirdly, it presumes all the signings were his top choices which we know they weren't since he wanted Kane & De Jong.

Casemiro & Eriksen are quality but they are stop gap signings and already on the decline.

This is still a work in progress.
 
sugar_kane said:
The Athletic tried to make this point a couple of weeks back and I couldn't disagree more.

First of all, signing players doesn't suddenly make it the managers team, they take time to bed in.

Second of all, Malacia and Martinez are injured, Altay can't be considered integral to the team and will unlikely play any game of significance if we can help it. Antony has been out of the squad. Reguilon is an emergency signing, sam with Evans. Mount, Hojlund and Amrabat have barely had any time to bed in.

Thirdly, it presumes all the signings were his top choices which we know they weren't since he wanted Kane & De Jong.

Casemiro & Eriksen are quality but they are stop gap signings and already on the decline.

This is still a work in progress.
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It's not that I disagree with your point, in general, it really isn't. I have made the point countless times that it could be months, or even multiple seasons, before it's genuinely ETHs team, in the sense that there's a 23 man squad of players all dancing to his tune.

Check my post history. See what I said about Arteta, and was proved spot on. See how I defended Jose, LvG and OGS to the hilt, with similar arguments, and with arguments about the management team generally.

The problem for ETH, in my mind, is two-fold.

One, he isn't working with Ed Woodward. We're not signing players based on their number of instragam followers, or based on their 'name' (Falcao, Schweinsteiger, Zlatan, Cavani, AdM etc...). It appears very much to me that ETH has had everything he could reasonably have expected delivered to him. A new CB. A new GK. A new CF. Multiple midfielders. Again, I'm not holding him to a standard of every single player having to he a roaring success, and overall I think he's bought fairly well...but there's no improvement (so far) where it matters...on the pitch.

Two. There's no evidence that the plan were supposedly working to under ETH is a viable one!

Name me a game, under ETH, in which we've played 'his' football and have controlled the game from start to finish and created multiple goalscoring opportunities? I can't think of many, at all. If any. Even under OGS we had prolonged periods of resoundingly good results and performances. ETHs results have largely been hard-fought, close victories, mixed in with resounding defeats, usually away from home.

Overall, there have been more disasters than really good performances, and overall the average performance has been pretty 'meh'.

So my question to you, and I mean it sincerely, by what point should we be seeing performances take shape? At what point do we acknowledge this team really shouldn't be resoundingly beaten four times on the spin by Brighton...or hit for sixes and sevens by anybody...or being completely incapable of beating anybody half decent away from OT?

EDIT | you say he wanted De Jong and Kane...sorry but we don't live in a fantasy world in which every manager gets every player they want...there's enough talent in the squad now to be doing better.
 
The Hilton said:
It's funny as Arsenal are an excellent current example of how you're completely wrong, they tried chopping and changing, ended up with a mess of a squad, and so gave Arteta time to overhaul things and have been rewarded. Hopefully the folks that run our club have a similar patience and foresight.
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Did they? They only had 1 manager between Wenger and Arteta.

Arsenal look good right now but they haven't actually won anything (other than an FA cup with the "mess of a squad" they used to have). It's not obvious that Arsenal couldn't have done better with a different, more proven manager. The bigger issue is whether they could have attracted that manager or not.
 
Lentwood said:
ETH has overseen the arrival of Onana, Altay, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hojlund, Evans, Reguilon and Eriksen. That's 12 out of a traditional 23 man squad. He's also been responsible for promoting Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's been allowed to let our highest profile player (Ronaldo) and our longest serving player (DDG) leave on a free. He's also sidelined the club captain. Our joint-highest earner and £73m winger is currently suspended from training or playing.

At this point, I don't think we can say its not "his" team.

On the subject of his tactics. Yes, you can argue he hasn't had enough time. I've made that argument to defend ETH too. But what is enough 'time' for us not to have one of the worst defensive records in the league? To be without an away win against a top half team? To not be losing at home to Palace and Brighton? To not be hit for 7 by Liverpool or 6 by Manchester City?

Most concerning for me is not the results in isolation, it's that the system he is trying to implement looks so painfully complicated. CBs running forward to receive passes. Fullbacks tucking into midfield. Casemiro, at 31, charging around the pitch seemingly playing like a box-to-box midfielder. Rashford literally still only being able to do one thing (cut in from the left and shoot) and Mount and Fernandes not working together so far (although that is very early days).

I don't see how these concerns are 'lazy criticisms'. We've seen many strange decisions and strange results under ETH, but we've trusted the process. At what point do we say 'does this guy actually have what it takes?'

I like some of what he has done. Unlike many, I don't really have a problem with his signings, necessarily. I like his strong decisions with Ronaldo, Maguire and DDG. I like the talk of discipline and hard work. The problem for me is, he'll ultimately be judged mainly by results but also by the manner of our performances - and if both don't improve very quickly, I think it's time to look elsewhere.
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It clearly isn't ETH's team yet. Of the 12 players coming in, 6 can be claimed as for the first team, the rest are depth, backups, or emergency loan signings. On top of that, Onana, Antony, and Mount were his first choice signings, the rest were second or third. Ronaldo quit after downing tools and badmouthing the club on a public interview, DDG refused a new contract. Your statement that we can't say it's not his team is blatantly false. When you factor in the number of players we have out, the fact that for half of last season and half of this season we'll be relying on an emergency loan signing as a starter, you're being disingenuous at best.

The tactics are similarly complex to most other modern managers. Fullbacks tucking in to midfield is basically par for the course nowadays, as is CBs stepping up. Rashford's wastefulness isn't a problem with the tactics, it's on him, our tactical setup has had him isolated with opposition CBs loads already this season, he just hasn't been able to take advantage of those situations.

I agree with you about the good stuff he's done, that's part of why I think he's bought some time, along with our overachievement last season.

As for your final point, I personally hope that our club management aren't ready to pull the trigger yet, to me it would be short sighted given the progress he's making in changing the culture, and the style. However, your final sentence is exactly what I mean by a lazy opinion - you say "time to look elsewhere", well where? Be specific. Suggesting we get rid of the manager without any idea as to who could do a better job or why is a lazy, shallow opinion.
 
Lentwood said:
ETH has overseen the arrival of Onana, Altay, Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hojlund, Evans, Reguilon and Eriksen. That's 12 out of a traditional 23 man squad. He's also been responsible for promoting Garnacho and Mainoo.

He's been allowed to let our highest profile player (Ronaldo) and our longest serving player (DDG) leave on a free. He's also sidelined the club captain. Our joint-highest earner and £73m winger is currently suspended from training or playing.

At this point, I don't think we can say its not "his" team.

On the subject of his tactics. Yes, you can argue he hasn't had enough time. I've made that argument to defend ETH too. But what is enough 'time' for us not to have one of the worst defensive records in the league? To be without an away win against a top half team? To not be losing at home to Palace and Brighton? To not be hit for 7 by Liverpool or 6 by Manchester City?

Most concerning for me is not the results in isolation, it's that the system he is trying to implement looks so painfully complicated. CBs running forward to receive passes. Fullbacks tucking into midfield. Casemiro, at 31, charging around the pitch seemingly playing like a box-to-box midfielder. Rashford literally still only being able to do one thing (cut in from the left and shoot) and Mount and Fernandes not working together so far (although that is very early days).

I don't see how these concerns are 'lazy criticisms'. We've seen many strange decisions and strange results under ETH, but we've trusted the process. At what point do we say 'does this guy actually have what it takes?'

I like some of what he has done. Unlike many, I don't really have a problem with his signings, necessarily. I like his strong decisions with Ronaldo, Maguire and DDG. I like the talk of discipline and hard work. The problem for me is, he'll ultimately be judged mainly by results but also by the manner of our performances - and if both don't improve very quickly, I think it's time to look elsewhere.
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Excellent post, the biggest fear for me this year is that the squad is incapable of turning this poor start around. I don't think it's a given EtH has job security in the result of a underperforming season because when you consider the home form and the poor away record, it could actually end up being a disaster outside the top 10. The problem this season on the football field is the tactical approach and the coaching. Valid problems off field but not all of them rectify the managers responsibility.
 
The manager could be doing better, no doubt about that. But he is far from the top of the list of problems at the club. Very short-sighted if people are starting to call for his head.
 
Shinjch said:
The manager could be doing better, no doubt about that. But he is far from the top of the list of problems at the club. Very short-sighted if people are starting to call for his head.
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So let's say the Glazers sell up tomorrow and we still can't beat teams like Palace, what happens then?
 
crossy1686 said:
So let's say the Glazers sell up tomorrow and we still can't beat teams like Palace, what happens then?
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How would a change in onwership tomorrow have any relevance in the short term? Beyond the fact that they won't even be able to do anything meaningful before the next transfer window, they need to unpick years of mismanagement from the club hierarchy.

Their first job should be putting in place a best in place footballing structure around the manager, map out the type of club we want to be and how to get there. If Ten Hag's footballing philosophy doesn't fit that model, pay him off in the summer.
 
crossy1686 said:
So let's say the Glazers sell up tomorrow and we still can't beat teams like Palace, what happens then?
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The club needs to have a proper strategy. Firstly, what is the point in having Murtough, Fletcher and co. if they don't have the ability to scout, target and obtain players that are outside of the manager's circle of influence? If the manager isn't working out then recruitment should not need to be uprooted every time a managerial change needs to occur. You would have thought that this lesson would have been learnt post-Van Gaal, but apparently not at this club.

A lot of these players now seem to be conditioned to think that if they don't perform or produce then that is fine for one season, since it will be the manager that pays for it with his job. This will always lead to a culture of underperformance no matter who is in the dugout. You will see the manager do well for a season before the players start to see a way out and take it.

With the above still in place, it makes the job of the first team manager so difficult to achieve sustained improvement in performance. None of the above even mentions the owners, but of course it is them that sets the overall culture, and they clearly don't care about winning or any sort of excellence.
 
sugar_kane said:
How would a change in onwership tomorrow have any relevance in the short term? Beyond the fact that they won't even be able to do anything meaningful before the next transfer window, they need to unpick years of mismanagement from the club hierarchy.

Their first job should be putting in place a best in place footballing structure around the manager, map out the type of club we want to be and how to get there. If Ten Hag's footballing philosophy doesn't fit that model, pay him off in the summer.
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Okay so let's say the new ownership do all those things, allow Ten Hag to bring in some more players that he knows or are within his management agency and then we're still where we are right now. What happens then? Baring in mind we just let him gut the squad and sign a bunch of players that seem to be worse.
 
UpWithRivers said:
All the talk about midfield and defense and Onana which is all true but his major fk up is our attack. We were 30+ goals off the top teams last year. He told us Weghorst would get goals. He bought Antony who cant create or score for sht. Then to fix it all he bought a 20 year old with 50 odd games on his resume. After 7 games we have the same goals as Palace and Forest on 7. The teams above us have 18.

Sure Rashford and Bruno are out of form but that's the problem. We have one player that creates the most of our goals and one player that scores most of them. Plus our strategy and just ability to make chances and score is Championship level. When you have players out of form you need someone else to step up. We used to have players out of form all the time. Rooney not score for a few games etc. But it was mitigated by all the other attackers stepping up. Its no coincidence Klopp rebuilt his attack first and spent millions doing it. Spurs dined out for years on being sht and relying on Kane to bail them out.

And I dont believe all this nonsense of its the boards fault. That Ten Haag wanted Kane but the board couldn't get him. Newcastle have managed to get a better attack than us. Liverpool have rebuilt their attack. Why cant we? Its fkn sht
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He recruited terribly, simply put. Maybe he was a little hamstrung by the clubs inability to get rid of squad players, but that doesn't excuse that his key signing was a no.10 who doesn't offer anything we didn't already have and wants to occupy similar positions to our captain.
 
Sarni said:
EFL Cup win has got him quite a bit of goodwill among our fanbase as our level this year is not really better than it was in Ole's final weeks (it's arguably even worse as we at least had had a few good games that season before we got rid of Ole), and back then everyone pretty much unequivocally thought he should have been fired as soon as possible. I wonder it the same had applied to Ole in 2021 if only DDG was able to save a penalty or two in EL final against Villarreal.
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I think you're misremembering mate. Ole's final EPL results after the West Ham loss in the EFL cup:
1-0 loss to Villa at home
1-1 draw with Everton at home
4-2 loss to Leicester away
5-0 loss to Liverpool at home
3-0 win at Spurs away (To a terrible Spurs team, Nuno was sacked after the game)
2-0 loss to City at home
4-1 loss to Watford away

Collective goal difference of 7-17. 4 points from a possible 21. With no injury crisis, no outside distractions in Greenwood/Antony and in his 4th season....

Please don't compare the 2.
 
the_cliff said:
I think you're misremembering mate. Ole's final EPL results after the West Ham loss in the EFL cup:
1-0 loss to Villa at home
1-1 draw with Everton at home
4-2 loss to Leicester away
5-0 loss to Liverpool at home
3-0 win at Spurs away (To a terrible Spurs team, Nuno was sacked after the game)
2-0 loss to City at home
4-1 loss to Watford away

Collective goal difference of 7-17. 4 points from a possible 21. With no injury crisis, no outside distractions in Greenwood/Antony and in his 4th season....

Please don't compare the 2.
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Palace loss is basically equivalent of that Villa loss, the loss to Brighton is just as bad or worse (being at OT) than the Leicester loss, so is the loss at Tottenham this year.

We will probably have a similar result to the Everton one against Brentford now, and City will annihilate us later this month similar to how them and Liverpool toyed with Ole’s team. So it’ll end up being very similar after October is gone.
 
He’s quite clearly not the long term answer, but there really isn’t anyone obvious out there right now. So let him try to instill the work ethic and bin the sulkers/lazies and then we reassess in the summer. But the results must be better than this, especially with the godawful football he’s serving. A drubbing by City/Liverpool and he’s on shaky legs.
 
Sarni said:
Palace loss is basically equivalent of that Villa loss, the loss to Brighton is just as bad or worse (being at OT) than the Leicester loss, so is the loss at Tottenham this year.

We will probably have a similar result to the Everton one against Brentford now, and City will annihilate us later this month similar to how them and Liverpool toyed with Ole’s team. So it’ll end up being very similar after October is gone.
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So we haven't had a run as bad as that yet have we as your post claimed. You're under the assumption that we lose all of Brentford, Sheffield and City games. Just one point from those 3 games is better than Ole's last run.

Of course not even mentioning the other part of my post.
 
The Hilton said:
Two, Emery and Ljungberg, who while interim was still in charge. Both of them were in and out within 18 months. It's a trap we need to stop falling in to.
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Ljungberg was in charge for four games. :lol:

There's no trap. Dismissing managers who aren't good is commonplace for every big team in Europe who aren't named Liverpool or City. Don't get me wrong, the club has massive structural issues (literally and figuratively) but the idea of running through coaches too quickly is incorrect.
 
This season is a write off with all the injuries, on and off the pitch issues, plus the looming dark cloud of a possible sale or Glazers staying and basically killing the club, long term. Ten Hag will be in danger of getting sacked and it seriously might happen.

I would play young , talented midfielders(Hannibal and Mainoo) as much as possible for them to gain experience at this level and mature.

Think we should often play a midfield of Casemiro/Amrabat - Hannibal/Mainoo - Mount this season to see how it works. Casemiro - Amrabat - Mount in tougher away games so we don't get humiliated potentially with 5+ goals conceded again. Bruno needs to be phased out slowly(if not swiftly) and I think more and more people on this forum are going to wake up and understand that. There is already a good portion of thoughtful, intellectually sharp people who see beyond the "stats" and what is the problem with him. Eriksen has no legs/physicality necessary anymore. McT and VDB are useless. Dan Gore - I don't know.

Hannibal, Mainoo, Amrabat and Mount are likely the most technically gifted footballers(in terms of comfort with the ball at their feet), press resistant. And all of them have pretty good work rate as well.

Mount should be the most advanced(attacking midfielder) - at least he can somewhat carry the ball, and retain it + he has an eye for a goal(one of his strengths). Bruno and Eriksen backing him up, rotating sometimes in less important games, while they are still at the club, even though they shouldn't be, really.

But I know that's not possible, Ten Hag has made Bruno captain and undroppable, untouchable. Put all his eggs in his basket and "transitional football" with a hot potato midfield that gives the ball away for fun, like it's a toy or a hot lava. And we are where we are - lost 4 of the 7 PL games, two at home. Ten Hag likely gets sacked(especially if ambitious new owners come in, which is still a possibility) and we start all over again. He disappointed me, and I had hope for him.
 
the_cliff said:
I think you're misremembering mate. Ole's final EPL results after the West Ham loss in the EFL cup:
1-0 loss to Villa at home
1-1 draw with Everton at home
4-2 loss to Leicester away
5-0 loss to Liverpool at home
3-0 win at Spurs away (To a terrible Spurs team, Nuno was sacked after the game)
2-0 loss to City at home
4-1 loss to Watford away

Collective goal difference of 7-17. 4 points from a possible 21. With no injury crisis, no outside distractions in Greenwood/Antony and in his 4th season....

Please don't compare the 2.
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That Villa game was the first loss of the season and he got the boot 6 games after that.
 
People have very short memories.

Last season:

Finished 3rd.
FA Cup final runner up.
Won league cup.
Crazy home record.

Thats including the battering we had from far more established teams.

We are not the Manchester United of the 1990's/2000's.

The club is a mess from the owners right down to some of the players but one thing that is definitely correct in my opinion is the manager.

SAF had a hard time at the start of his time here and I think that ETH did a great job in the first season, we are going to get battered from time to time against BETTER TEAMS as thats what they are, better than us.

This "we are Man Utd" arrogance is BS and needs to stop.

We are exactly where we deserve to be and will improve with consistency.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Ljungberg was in charge for four games. :lol:

There's no trap. Dismissing managers who aren't good is commonplace for every big team in Europe who aren't named Liverpool or City. Don't get me wrong, the club has massive structural issues (literally and figuratively) but the idea of running through coaches too quickly is incorrect.
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Sack ETH, or not, it doesn't matter to me. What is weird though is fans thinking this guy has got a plan and will make us challenge in the league. Some of them watched thousands of matches in their lives but can't recognise when ETH is not going to turn this ship around in the medium run, and I'm not certain about the short run too. The only explanation is that many fans watch football high or drunk.
 
philippexyz said:
This season is a write off with all the injuries, on and off the pitch issues, plus the looming dark cloud of a possible sale or Glazers staying and basically killing the club, long term. Ten Hag will be in danger of getting sacked and it seriously might happen.

I would play young , talented midfielders(Hannibal and Mainoo) as much as possible for them to gain experience at this level and mature.

Think we should often play a midfield of Casemiro/Amrabat - Hannibal/Mainoo - Mount this season to see how it works. Casemiro - Amrabat - Mount in tougher away games so we don't get humiliated potentially with 5+ goals conceded again. Bruno needs to be phased out slowly(if not swiftly) and I think more and more people on this forum are going to wake up and understand that. There is already a good portion of thoughtful, intellectually sharp people who see beyond the "stats" and what is the problem with him. Eriksen has no legs/physicality necessary anymore. McT and VDB are useless. Dan Gore - I don't know.

Hannibal, Mainoo, Amrabat and Mount are likely the most technically gifted footballers(in terms of comfort with the ball at their feet), press resistant. And all of them have pretty good work rate as well.

Mount should be the most advanced(attacking midfielder) - at least he can somewhat carry the ball, and retain it + he has an eye for a goal(one of his strengths). Bruno and Eriksen backing him up, rotating sometimes in less important games, while they are still at the club, even though they shouldn't be, really.

But I know that's not possible, Ten Hag has made Bruno captain and undroppable, untouchable. Put all his eggs in his basket and "transitional football" with a hot potato midfield that gives the ball away for fun, like it's a toy or a hot lava. And we are where we are - lost 4 of the 7 PL games, two at home. Ten Hag likely gets sacked(especially if ambitious new owners come in, which is still a possibility) and we start all over again. He disappointed me, and I had hope for him.
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I've been alarmed just how quickly we've seen fitness and performances decline from Casemiro and Eriksen since we've started the season saying their legs are gone and we need replacements.It's crazy. With the Bruno & Marcus 'Undroppables' and other off-pitch stuff, I think there's too much to manage. I've also been disappointed by our in-game management, just hasn't seemed as clever as it could be. I think ETH will be gone pretty soon.
 
crossy1686 said:
Are you suggesting we should have kept him? Managers get sacked for losing games and playing shit football, there's no secret formula where you don't sack someone out of their depth and then you win everything.
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I'm suggesting that simply changing the manager over and over again without addressing the deep rooted issues at the club will never get us anywhere in the long term.
 
Last year, when we had a good spell, people said that it was thanks to ETH, even though he was new.

A year later, we’re having a bad spell with bad performances, but it’s not his fault. It’s always the fault of someone else, even when lose to teams like CP at home.
 
Shinjch said:
I'm suggesting that simply changing the manager over and over again without addressing the deep rooted issues at the club will never get us anywhere in the long term.
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It was not the powers that be who addressed the drinking culture in the club in the late 80s. It was Sir Alex, you know, a manager who got the job when Ron Atkinson was SACKED... it was him who had the bottle to kick Whiteside and McGrath out. McGrath went to Aston Villa and became PFA player of the year in the same season Sir Alex made us champions of England. You stick with a manager like him, for he did what ETH should have done long ago with Sancho and McTom and Maguire. That's how a world class manager acts.
 
Shinjch said:
I'm suggesting that simply changing the manager over and over again without addressing the deep rooted issues at the club will never get us anywhere in the long term.
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Except it will if you hire the right manager. Hiring the wrong manager over and over again gets you nowhere, as we've seen.
 
The Hilton said:
It clearly isn't ETH's team yet. Of the 12 players coming in, 6 can be claimed as for the first team, the rest are depth, backups, or emergency loan signings. On top of that, Onana, Antony, and Mount were his first choice signings, the rest were second or third. Ronaldo quit after downing tools and badmouthing the club on a public interview, DDG refused a new contract. Your statement that we can't say it's not his team is blatantly false. When you factor in the number of players we have out, the fact that for half of last season and half of this season we'll be relying on an emergency loan signing as a starter, you're being disingenuous at best.

The tactics are similarly complex to most other modern managers. Fullbacks tucking in to midfield is basically par for the course nowadays, as is CBs stepping up. Rashford's wastefulness isn't a problem with the tactics, it's on him, our tactical setup has had him isolated with opposition CBs loads already this season, he just hasn't been able to take advantage of those situations.

I agree with you about the good stuff he's done, that's part of why I think he's bought some time, along with our overachievement last season.

As for your final point, I personally hope that our club management aren't ready to pull the trigger yet, to me it would be short sighted given the progress he's making in changing the culture, and the style. However, your final sentence is exactly what I mean by a lazy opinion - you say "time to look elsewhere", well where? Be specific. Suggesting we get rid of the manager without any idea as to who could do a better job or why is a lazy, shallow opinion.
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Well there's no accepted definition for what constitutes 'a managers' team'.

The fact is, every manager inherits a team that is not "their team" and must set about changing that as quickly as possible. However, its accepted as part of that process that results and performances need to improve in the short/medium term. I don't think anybody is arguing that each new manager should be able to change all 23 players each time, with no regard for results.

So we can go back and forth on this. My opinion is that enough of the team/squad are now "his" players to suggest we should be seeing some improvement. If you disagree, that's fine, but it doesn't make my argument disingenuous- I'm not trying to mislead people with it.

I'm not at the point whereby I'm actively calling for the club to replace ETH right now, but I do think his position should be under serious scrutiny. Believe me, I wouldn't care if we'd lost all of our league games, if we'd played brilliantly well. My biggest concern is that when we're bad, we're very bad - and our 'base level' seems to be very, very average.

Can you remember a "good" performance under ETH that suggests to you we're heading in the right direction? Barcelona at home, maybe? Newcastle in the League Cup final, maybe? Liverpool at OT? Problem is, I can barely remember any resoundingly comfortable victories, but I could reel off ten horrible performances under ETH right now without even thinking for more than a few seconds.

My current position personally is, things HAVE to improve by Christmas. I'm not foaming at the mouth, screaming for him to leave...but IF we still look a shambles tactically and/or results haven't picked up against the fair/middling teams, a decision might have to be made.

And actually...I'd argue its not really a requirement for me to say who I'd have instead to suggest that ETHs position should be considered. There's loads of options out there, the next superstar managers are out there, I don't watch any non-English football, so I couldn't tell you who they are! I hadn't even heard of Ange or De Zerbi prior to them coming to the Premier League, both have done well. Could we tempt Eddie Howe? Would he be worth a try?
 
Luffy said:
Sack ETH, or not, it doesn't matter to me. What is weird though is fans thinking this guy has got a plan and will make us challenge in the league. Some of them watched thousands of matches in their lives but can't recognise when ETH is not going to turn this ship around in the medium run, and I'm not certain about the short run too. The only explanation is that many fans watch football high or drunk.
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We really have the cult of the manager ingrained in us as fans. Even 10 years on, we still cling to this idea that our managers can be like Sir Alex and somehow make miraculous turnarounds.
 
crossy1686 said:
Except it will if you hire the right manager. Hiring the wrong manager over and over again gets you nowhere, as we've seen.
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You only have to look at Liverpool -- Klopp essentially succeeds in spite of the ownership, and that's because he's a really fecking good manager.
 
DWelbz19 said:
You only have to look at Liverpool -- Klopp essentially succeeds in spite of the ownership, and that's because he's a really fecking good manager.
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Excellent point. The Gooners also have a troubled relationship with their owners.
 
DWelbz19 said:
You only have to look at Liverpool -- Klopp essentially succeeds in spite of the ownership, and that's because he's a really fecking good manager.
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Exactly, good managers find a way regardless of the restrictions placed upon them, and they are humble enough to know their limitations so they seek outside knowledge and delegate.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
Last year, when we had a good spell, people said that it was thanks to ETH, even though he was new.

A year later, we’re having a bad spell with bad performances, but it’s not his fault. It’s always the fault of someone else, even when lose to teams like CP at home.
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That's what fanboyism gets you.

- Dismal Wolves performance - "we won the game, stop complaining about manager"
- Spurs loss - "we were robbed by the ref, stop complaining about manager"
- Narrow win against 10 men Forest - "great comeback, stop complaining about manager"
- Arsenal loss - "Garnacho was onside, stop complaining about manager"
- Brighton loss - "they're a better ran club, stop complaining about manager"
- Bayern loss - "narrow loss at Bayern is like a win, stop complaining about manager"
- Palace loss - "we have injuries, stop complaining about the manager"

4 losses in 7 to start the season. Pathetic away form (every game against top half opposition is an automatic loss) and we can't even get results at home now. Yet if you believe his devoted fans you'd think everything is rosy and we're playing swashbuckling football.
 
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