Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[crossy1686]

We’re still very early in the season, but if something isn’t working he must be prepared to make big and brave decisions with his starting eleven.

I hate that the knives are already being sharpened, but I get it, we’ve looked hopeless to average this season.

And for half of last season, there’s no reason to pretend we weren’t terrible post League cup final. Anyone that’s had enough of Ten Hag has had enough because we’ve been bad for a long time and that run included being absolutely battered by the likes of Liverpool 7-0 and City 6-3.

 

[christy87]

He’s gone sooner or later, sooner if the results keep going to shit, later new owners wanting to put there stamp on things and a manager that’s bang average would be the first to go.

 

[AshRK]

But what are the awful seasons caused by? Then only ever happen when a manager has had a ‘good’ season previously and he’s been allowed to bring in yet more of his own players. The Glazers didn’t sign Mount this summer but they gave Ten Hag and Murtough a shit load of money to spend on players that aren’t good enough it seems. Any other club would sack their manager and not find excuses to constantly defend the manager when he isn’t doing his job well enough.

Ok then why have we not been successful for a decade. Who appoints murtough or woodward. Surely you can't just sit and say Glazers had no role to play for our downfall.

Like I said it's a collective issue. Manager must improve,players must improve as well and we need to have a competent people running the football club. All the three are must. If people still think hey replace the manager and everything will be fine then they are just deluding themselves.

 

[crossy1686]

This was always going to be painful.
I just didn't expect fans to get all panicked and knee jerk after 7 games.

If you truly think this is a 7 game thing then you didn’t watch any of United for the second half of last season.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It’s amazing that no matter who is in charge of this club, no matter how many billions we let them spend we still end up with what feels like a rotten squad going nowhere.

I think Ten Hag was a good appointment, but just can’t see him making it to the end of the season

We need a proper DoF. I also feel that ETH was excellent appointment but we allowed him to be coach, manager, scout and head of recruitment at the same time. And that is a problem which we will have under any manager.
I think that he would be much better if we didn't allow him to be in charge of transfers.

 

[crossy1686]

Ok then why have we not been successful for a decade. Who appoints murtough or woodward. Surely you can't just sit and say Glazers had no role to play for our downfall.

Like I said it's a collective issue. Manager must improve,players must improve as well and we need to have a competent people running the football club. All the three are must. If people still think hey replace the manager and everything will be fine then they are just deluding themselves.

It’s clear why we haven’t been successful, we’re constantly trying to replace Fergie when a Fergie doesn’t exist. No manager who has only managed in Holland should have access to £400m in transfer fees and total free will to do whatever the feck he wants and this has been consistent with every manager when absolutely none of them have shown the ability to handle large sums of cash in a smart way. The next manager we appoint won’t get £400m so they’ll have to work with the squad or they will be fired, and to be honest that’s the best thing that could happen.

 

[VP89]

If you truly think this is a 7 game thing then you didn’t watch any of United for the second half of last season.

I watched United fully, I'm just annoyed at the lazyness of posters who either don't know or refuse to acknowledge the fact that Ten Hag wants to evolve our style of play this season, and that comes with its own teething problems irrespective of last year.

I also think our form dip last year was massively overexagerrated.

 

[Judas]

Right now, from what we’ve seen of his players, I’d not be in a rush to see what Ten Hag can do with another huge chunk of money, but that’s how our club wrongfully does things. Destined to repeat the same cycle over and over. Doesn’t mean I want him gone, I don’t, but he’s been given plenty, and spent it….ok? If we’re being kind.

 

[AshRK]

It’s clear why we haven’t been successful, we’re constantly trying to replace Fergie when a Fergie doesn’t exist. No manager who has only managed in Holland should have access to £400m in transfer fees and total free will to do whatever the feck he wants and this has been consistent with every manager when absolutely none of them have shown the ability to handle large sums of cash in a smart way. The next manager we appoint won’t get £400m so they’ll have to work with the squad or they will be fired, and to be honest that’s the best thing that could happen.

But someone has to make sure that is not repeated. I am.all for replacing manager but why aren't the people above him taking the same sort of blame. Why is he getting to spend 400m on players he wants. Why isn't no one saying no we are not spending 85m on antony. How come we wasted one month chasing de jong only to spend 70m on a totally different style of midfielder. Eth wanted antony since May and had the club been more proactive we could have signed antony for as less as 40m but the club decided to dither and ended up paying crazy amount. Surely that goes beyond the manager. And it's not just with eth, we saw that with Ole as well(80m on Maguire), saw with Jose as well, saw with lvg as well. Surely can't keep on saying manager this manager that.

The problem is we are probably the only big club where manager is expected to be a scout as well and recruit players. That shouldn't be happening.

 

[Judas]

I watched United fully, I'm just annoyed at the lazyness of posters who either don't know or refuse to acknowledge the fact that Ten Hag wants to evolve our style of play this season, and that comes with its own teething problems irrespective of last year.

I also think our form dip last year was massively overexagerrated.

I can see and understand he’s trying to change our style, it’s clear you do see it in some elements of how we play, the progress is at a glacial pace though. So who’s to blame there, players? Coaching? Bit of both?

I still think it sucks out injury issues have really not been kind, but that’s football, this club seems to always have injury problems.

 

[Ubik]

But someone has to make sure that is not repeated. I am.all for replacing manager but why aren't the people above him taking the same sort of blame. Why is he getting to spend 400m on players he wants. Why isn't no one saying no we are not spending 85m on antony. How come we wasted one month chasing de jong only to spend 70m on a totally different style of midfielder. Eth wanted antony since May and had the club been more proactive we could have signed antony for as less as 40m but the club decided to dither and ended up paying crazy amount. Surely that goes beyond the manager. And it's not just with eth, we saw that with Ole as well(80m on Maguire), saw with Jose as well, saw with lvg as well. Surely can't keep on saying manager this manager that.

The problem is we are probably the only big club where manager is expected to be a scout as well and recruit players. That shouldn't be happening.

From what I've seen, this tends to be treated as a "we'll sort that out later" problem, rather than the fundamental that needs to be addressed before we should even bother thinking we're a top side again.

 

[Skills]

But someone has to make sure that is not repeated. I am.all for replacing manager but why aren't the people above him taking the same sort of blame. Why is he getting to spend 400m on players he wants. Why isn't no one saying no we are not spending 85m on antony. How come we wasted one month chasing de jong only to spend 70m on a totally different style of midfielder. Eth wanted antony since May and had the club been more proactive we could have signed antony for as less as 40m but the club decided to dither and ended up paying crazy amount. Surely that goes beyond the manager. And it's not just with eth, we saw that with Ole as well(80m on Maguire), saw with Jose as well, saw with lvg as well. Surely can't keep on saying manager this manager that.

The problem is we are probably the only big club where manager is expected to be a scout as well and recruit players. That shouldn't be happening.

Because when someone says no to our manager, our fans turn the club into a toxic cesspit.

 

[Andycoleno9]

There is always next year, hopefully ETH hasn't lost the dressing room. No Champion league and no Europa league, just Premier league, FA Cup and League Cup so ETH can get to get top 4. Best case scenario finish in the middle of the table. We are beginning to become like CP, Wolves, Everton, West Ham and etc. Let's see if Glazers want to be greedy and wait for the big offer. The shares probably continue dropping next week.

So if he fails this year (finishing outside top 4) you would reward him by setting minimum goal for next year?

In first season goal is top 4. In second season it should be title challenge and in a third season goal is winning a title.

 

[The_Midfielder]

So if he fails this year (finishing outside top 4) you would reward him by setting minimum goal for next year?

In first season goal is top 4. In second season it should be title challenge and in third goal is a title.

We aren't doing title challenge until Pep,Klopp are here ..

 

[AshRK]

From what I've seen, this tends to be treated as a "we'll sort that out later" problem, rather than the fundamental that needs to be addressed before we should even bother thinking we're a top side again.

Absolutely. People who keep on saying glazers are not to be blamed are not getting that it's not about one result, it's the overall fundamental issues which go beyond the manager.

 

[santeria13]

I disagree but it doesn't matter anyway as Rangnick wanted to get back into management. I'm not sure how we could have kept him on as a consultant while he's managing Austria even if we wanted to do.

As far as I understand it, didn't he only take the Austria job once it became clear our board weren't interested in anything past his managerial stint?

 

[AshRK]

Because when someone says no to our manager, our fans turn the club into a toxic cesspit.

That should not be the reason though. So why not listen to the same fans and who say improve the recruitment and hire a competent dof. Why also not hear to the fans who want to glazers to leave.

All these comments are crying out loud to protect our incompetent board. 85m for antony was stupidity, 72m on Hojlund is stupid, 80m on Maguire is stupidity, offering 350k for sancho is stupidity, offering 400k or whatever to rashford is stupidity. These things are beyond the manager. Manager should be judged on tactics and style of play and results. So far this season eth should be questioned on that.

 

[VP89]

I can see and understand he’s trying to change our style, it’s clear you do see it in some elements of how we play, the progress is at a glacial pace though. So who’s to blame there, players? Coaching? Bit of both?

I still think it sucks out injury issues have really not been kind, but that’s football, this club seems to always have injury problems.

I think his injury problems set him back as did sancho and Antonys respective situations.

I also think he was pretty unlucky from a coaching standpoint vs Arsenal and Spurs. Two much improved away performances (at least for the first half to spurs where we had so many gaping chances).

However I did not really like him playing Bruno out right thereafter and still overly trusting Rashford. In my opinion Rashford should be dropped for a while and reduced to being an impact player just like for England. With Mount fit and Antony coming back, we have right wing options set and I want to see Garnacho trusted.

Rashford has demonstrated poor chemistry so far with Hojlund too. I think he's not a touchline hugging winger and he's not a striker, he's not exactly a provider either and it's annoying Ten Hag hasn't seen this earlier.

 

[Greck]

I'd give away a limb to let tear it down again and restart the rebuild with Erik staying as manager but a better structure. Also think he made adaptations to what he had when he should have probably torn and replaced those foundations. We don't have anyone worth sacrifices from any top manager.

 

[RedSky]

I also think our form dip last year was massively overexagerrated.

First 24 Games:
Wins: 15
Draws: 4
Loses: 5
GD: 13
Goals Scored Per Game: 1.71 (ranked 6th)
Goals Conceded Per Game: 1.17 (ranked 5th)
Points Per Game: 2.04 (ranked 3rd)

Cup Final is Played

Remaining 14 Games:
Wins: 8
Draws: 2
Loses: 4
GD: +2
Goals Scored Per Game: 1.21 (ranked 14th)
Goals Conceded Per Game: 1.07 (ranked 4th)
Points Per Game: 1.86 (ranked 6th)

There was a clear decline, a very stark drop in our goals scored and therefore our goal difference tanked. Ours points remained not too bad, a little drop but we were still digging out the wins. Our GD since the Cup Final in the league is horrific and our win percentage is hovering just above 50%. Our form has been an issue for a while now and our results are declining pretty fast.

It's been a while now that we've beaten a decent team, Villa was a decent result given they've been in a decent form for a while now, but we were at home. Chelsea were dogshit at the tail of last season. I'd go as far back as January when we beat City. That was our last decent win against a tough team.

To put it into context, our wins since the Cup Final have been:

1:0 Brentford (H)
2:0 Everton (H)
0:2 Forest (A)
1:0 Villa (H)
2:0 Wolves (H)
0:1 Bournemouth (A)
4:1 Chelsea (H)
2:1 Fulham (H)
1:0 Wolves (H)
3:2 Forest (H)
0:1 Burnley (A)

We have to improve in the final third and we have to start beating teams in the tricky fixtures. I look at our incoming fixtures and I think November and December is going to get very messy.

 

[kundalini]

At the moment, Ten Hag seems a really ordinary PL manager, given the squad he inherited and the money he has spent. The list of current managers who have done a better job is alarming. Perhaps by the end of the season he will look better than Howe, Emery, Postecoglou, De Zerbi. Even then, Klopp, Guardiola and Arteta look vastly superior.

I find the lack of strategic thinking incredible. So many decisions are completely idiotic if you go beyond a short term time-frame.

We look such a poorly coached team. There were warning signs last season, getting destroyed in away matches against the top PL sides.

See how things look at the end of the season.

 

[Turnip]

Not sure what you're trying to say here. Me saying the manager has to go because it isn't working out isn't mutually exclusive with believing there ALSO needs to be wider organisational changes - despite people here trying to present it as either or

You're right, it isn't. But what I'm trying to say is that the managers can't be the issue at this point because it's spanned over the course of too many of them. Maybe ETH isn't up to scratch, but if we replace him now we'd never know because the issue at the top remains.

Maybe we're really unlucky and just had bad fitting managers over and over again and transfers just haven't worked out as expected through nothing but bad luck, but I find that hard to believe at this point.

 

[crossy1686]

I watched United fully, I'm just annoyed at the lazyness of posters who either don't know or refuse to acknowledge the fact that Ten Hag wants to evolve our style of play this season, and that comes with its own teething problems irrespective of last year.

I also think our form dip last year was massively overexagerrated.

Mate, we’ve been shite for ages, the only reason people have ignored this is because we won a league cup and finished 3rd, which was an absolute chore that went down to the last day in the end.

 

[Judas]

We all expected better this season. That first game against Wolves was so deflating, and we’ve had some improvement since but it’s not exactly felt like a revolution, not yet.

 

[crossy1686]

We all expected better this season. That first game against Wolves was so deflating, and we’ve had some improvement since but it’s not exactly felt like a revolution, not yet.

Did you see preseason? There was nothing to suggest this season was going to start well

 

[Judas]

Did you see preseason? There was nothing to suggest this season was going to start well

Honestly mate I don’t watch preseason games, haven’t really for years, life’s too short. They’re mostly meaningless. I certainly wouldn’t have taken them as a precursor as to what was to come. All I could take from it is too many games and woeful planning, all of that was probably out of the managers control though.

 

[RORY65]

You're right, it isn't. But what I'm trying to say is that the managers can't be the issue at this point because it's spanned over the course of too many of them. Maybe ETH isn't up to scratch, but if we replace him now we'd never know because the issue at the top remains.

Maybe we're really unlucky and just had bad fitting managers over and over again and transfers just haven't worked out as expected through nothing but bad luck, but I find that hard to believe at this point.

To say it's too many of them is to ignore that one is Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, whose previous resume was doing a terrible job with Cardiff and doing pretty well in the 15th highest ranked top flight in Europe (5 places below the Scottish league), another is David Moyes and the other 2 were past their best and have done nothing of note since.

I'm not at the stage of wanting the manager gone but I'm at the stage of having serious doubts. We all know that the main change that needs to happen is a change of ownership and a change of the football structure but we can still judge the manager on his tactics, how well coached the players look, how disciplined and together the squad seems to be and on his recruitment because he seemingly wanted to have a major say in that despite us all thinking that's a bad idea. On that basis he's not doing an especially good job and his performance and the performance of the team has been trending down basically since the start of March which isn't a small sample at this stage.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

He needs to make some calls about certain starters especially when other players gain fitness. Casemiro, Bruno, Rashford have mostly been net negatives this season.

 

[Roboc7]

But what are the awful seasons caused by? Then only ever happen when a manager has had a ‘good’ season previously and he’s been allowed to bring in yet more of his own players. The Glazers didn’t sign Mount this summer but they gave Ten Hag and Murtough a shit load of money to spend on players that aren’t good enough it seems. Any other club would sack their manager and not find excuses to constantly defend the manager when he isn’t doing his job well enough.

The manager will get the sack if things don’t improve, the issue is no-one else will. So the same idiots who have helped run the club into the ground will still be running the show.

ETH has to get better or he loses his job, same rule doesn’t apply to anyone else.

 

[NLunited]

Why pick one example that worked out and ignore dozens and dozens of others that didn't though? Literally every club is a "carousel for managers". Those that aren't can be counted on the fingers of one hand. And if/when things get bad, they will sack the manager too.

We are in a vicious cycle, we should try something different. The club needs modernizing and Ten Hag helps with that.

To name another example: Chelsea. Manager after manager but they are mid table still.

Of course if all turns to hell we have to change. We aren‘t there yet.

 

[steffyr2]

I'm looking at the players we've gotten rid of in since last season. It's incredible!

It also looks like ETH doesn't know what he's doing.

 

[oreon]

You're right, it isn't. But what I'm trying to say is that the managers can't be the issue at this point because it's spanned over the course of too many of them. Maybe ETH isn't up to scratch, but if we replace him now we'd never know because the issue at the top remains.

Maybe we're really unlucky and just had bad fitting managers over and over again and transfers just haven't worked out as expected through nothing but bad luck, but I find that hard to believe at this point.

The manager can be absolutely part of the problem. The managers we've hired were either over the hill (Mourinho, LVG) or inexperienced for a big club (Ole, Moyes, Rangnick). No other big club would have hired these managers. ETH has some success but its at an inferior league. No way to know even if the structure was right if he would succeed. Coaching Ajax in Dutch league isn't same as UTD in EPL.
These managers are being handicapped by poor ownership and upper management. But they all deserved to get fired.
ETH is no exception. It's still early on in the season so any calls to fire him are premature. But if by December, we are out of contention in all cups and top 4 is not attainable and the football sucks then he should get fired. He has had the most power since SAF. The board has backed on him against Sancho and Ronaldo. Mourinho didn't get the same backing against Pogba and Martial. ETH has been given money and he's had the final say in transfers. All the players coming in are his choice. He hasn't gotten everything he's wanted but he's spent a ton of money anyways. So we can't give him the excuse he hasn't been backed.
Lets give him time, but he has a lot of responsibility on what happens on the pitch. No one is asking for a league title or CL trophy. What most fans are asking for is reasonable and should be attainable with the current squad. Get to top 4 and start to implement a style of play. This squad is perfectly capable of doing that. ETH needs to start showing results. Other wise why is he here ? If he got praised for last season turn around and then he can also accept some blame in this season's poor start

 

[astracrazy]

Did you see preseason? There was nothing to suggest this season was going to start well

If anything pre season told us what he should be doing now.....playing the youngsters

 

[Partridge]

If you haven't heard a manager admit in post game interviews that they got it wrong then suit yourself

Even Pep has

It's true. if you even google it, there are plenty of articles with pep himself saying he got it wrong..quite a few times.

 

[crossy1686]

Honestly mate I don’t watch preseason games, haven’t really for years, life’s too short. They’re mostly meaningless. I certainly wouldn’t have taken them as a precursor as to what was to come. All I could take from it is too many games and woeful planning, all of that was probably out of the managers control though.

Totally get that mate and respect it, but everything we’re seeing on the pitch now was happening in preseason and it was obvious it was going to follow us into the league games.

 

[Buster15]

Before Ole was sacked, we blamed him for lack of discipline and going too easy with the players and lack of fitness. And we blamed him for having a crap coaching team.

Now Ten Hag is here we blame him for having a crap coaching team and being responsible for too many injuries.

What I mean by that is that it is too easy to seize on specifics and blame certain things.
But the big picture says that United are just not doing the basics right.
And that has been the case for far too many years.

 

[Amar__]

Before Ole was sacked, we blamed him for lack of discipline and going too easy with the players and lack of fitness. And we blamed him for having a crap coaching team.

Now Ten Hag is here we blame him for having a crap coaching team and being responsible for too many injuries.

What I mean by that is that it is too easy to seize on specifics and blame certain things.
But the big picture says that United are just not doing the basics right.
And that has been the case for far too many years.

The fact that neither of our previous managers got top job after us would imply that they aren't that level needed to wake up top team and get it back to its best. So we can't be sure that it's not down to managers, because those managers haven't showed anything we asked them to do even at clubs after us. Even Mourinho who got some decent jobs failed at similar stuff in next few clubs.

Btw, I agree that our board should take the blame at least 50% for our failures, especially because of shite negotiations, big contracts, poor scouting, etc., but it's not proven that either of our previous managers post Fergie was good enough for Manchester United to be fair.

 

[pocco]

Your final paragraph is simply false. If there is no better manager out there, then sacking the existing one isn't a sensible idea. If there is, and our current manager was as bad as you say, it should be trivial for you to make a case for another manager who would come in and do a better job. Unfortunately nobody has been able to do that yet, which includes you so far.

If you can make a good case for a replacement then you can get me on board, genuinely, but it needs to be deeper than just "sack the manager and get anyone in".

This is all well and good but what do we know really? Half the Caf said Arteta was shit. Nobody knew De Zerbi. Nobody expected Howe to be anything other than a stop gap at Newcastle. It's hard to predict who will click with a group of players and the fans, but there will be managers out there that would do better than ETH. Numerous managers have been mentioned already who could potentiate do a good job. If the next one fails then you try somebody else until something works. And that doesn't mean giving them years and unlimited budget to deliver, only we do that.

 

[frostbite]

Made same mistake as previous managers.
Move from non-club to mega (commercial) club. Got sold on Disneyland for adult ideology and thought they could literally buy Donald and Goofy to play fantasy football. Reality hits hard after 1 season.
Arnold was still fecking spineless for not keeping Rangsnick though. He's ETH's boss, it's not the otherway around.

You make it sound like ETH is some kind of victim. He is not. He already made millions. And his friends with the player agency also made millions.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Before Ole was sacked, we blamed him for lack of discipline and going too easy with the players and lack of fitness. And we blamed him for having a crap coaching team.

Now Ten Hag is here we blame him for having a crap coaching team and being responsible for too many injuries.

What I mean by that is that it is too easy to seize on specifics and blame certain things.
But the big picture says that United are just not doing the basics right.
And that has been the case for far too many years.

Probably we are signing substandard players and substandard managers.
All the two aspect maybe true at the same time.

If ETH is a good coach, he should coach the team/players he has. That is not rocket science. It's what he's paid to do. Coach the fcuking team.
Let your ego match your coaching calibre.

But now, it looks like ETH has Sir Alex ego with Ole coaching abilities. Very disappointing really.