Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Premiership has improved, I recall myself, and a few others on here stating that last season was pretty average, with a decent, rather than great Arsenal side pushing City. Everybody else was miles off it. This season, most teams have improved, and the table does not lie.

This is potentially a v v difficult season for us. We need an attacking spark. I worry a bit, I do...
 
el3mel said:
Better than Ten Hag apologists and their "3rd and League cup" hilarious argument in response to us being shit.
Click to expand...

But it isn't though, is it. That's an actual achievement, and therefore a solid piece of evidence.

If you have a suggested replacement for Ten Hag, let's hear it, along with your reasoning why. Make a good case and I can get behind it, but as I said I haven't seen a single one that isn't just knee jerk on here.
 
The Hilton said:
Can you offer any reasons why Marco Rose or Unai would be successful beyond you liking one or the other doing a good job with Villa? Because at the moment there's no depth to your opinion, it boils down to nothing more than "Ten Hag bad, anyone else better".
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

I like the way their teams play? What am I supposed to say - I know their birth chart or something? Unai has consistently seen success as a manager - his CV is better than Ten Hag's and Marco Rose has been adding honours to his.

All I see in favour of Ten Hag is "club is toxic, no one would be successful here. We've changed managers before". We can all be reductive.
 
Mercurial said:
He should have gone for Kane, kept DDG for 1-2 seasons more. Should have battered Maguire to pulp and paid those 7 mills to get rid and gotten KMJ when he had the chance. He is an idealist to a fault and it will be his undoing with us.
Click to expand...
You are completely nonsense. Maguire didn’t even play. The one he played in mid of the week, we won comfortably against the same opponent. What’s your logic?
 
crossy1686 said:
Winning games is progressive. Not sure why people attach derogatory names to certain styles of football because they’ve decided they don’t like it so no one else can either.

Then coach the players to play a different way and bring in managers that can and are willing to coach players to be better instead of just replacing them because they don’t like them.
Click to expand...

When I say progressive I effectively mean more proactive, as recent history has proven teams on the front foot are more likely to win, and therefore more progressive by your definition.

As for your second paragraph, that doesn't just happen overnight. It takes time, smart recruitment, and a willingness to accept poor results during the transition. That's what we're trying now, but our reactionary fans don't have the patience required to see that kind of change through.
 
The problems with the club certainly go beyond ETH's achievements as a manager, but I don't see any kind of a system that he implemented, his tactics is questionable as well. He talks about some kind of pressing, but I don't see that either
We have a relatively easier game against Galatasaray now, which probably means they'll sit back and we'll watch the team struggling to create chances. Our group is not that easy at all, and the way we've played we can easily drop points against Copenhagen or in Istanbul, which could lead to an early CL exit. If ETH wants to stay here after January, he needs to start fixing things soon
 
frostbite said:
As a manager, you talk to the players every day. Especially to your superstar players. What happened between ETH and Ronaldo did not happen suddenly. Obviously, ETH was not able to properly "manage" Ronaldo, that's an interpersonal skill that managers should have, especially the top level managers. That's ETH's job, he is the manager, he has to "manage" his players.

Anyway, you are ETH, you see that your only striker (a superstar) is unhappy, you have two choices: (1) Suck up to him, take him to dinner, sweet talk to him, give him your ass to feck, whatever he needs. (2) Make a plan to replace him.

ETH did neither of those. He was lost. Then he got Wout. Then he got a kid. Months later, he has no plan for our attacking play.
Click to expand...
Have you watched Ronaldo in the Saudi League? He's finished at top European level and couldn't accept the reality of being on rotation. The board then blocked the Gakpo transfer at 40M but then went on to pay 80M for Hoijlund late in the summer window.

The rot starts from the top.
 
Ralph1386 said:
Our problems and failures in scouting and recruitment have existed long before the current manager arrived and will remain so as long as these owners, board, DOF and his team are here. The only common thread in the sh!thousery of the past decade going back to the Moyes era. Good scouting department :lol:
Click to expand...
The scouts regularly highlight players but are ignored for who the manager wants instead. They found Caceido before he left South America, all the kids we’ve currently got in the first team, that striker that just signed for PSG, etc there’s loads, just google who we’ve been scouting over the last 10 years and you’ll see.
 
I’d like ETH to wear club colours/outfits when on the sidelines to show his love and affection for the club. Like klopp always wears Liverpool gear. Suppose that’s just the type of guy he is more smart and casual.
 
TheLord said:
The "bar" of good has really fallen from grace over the last 10 years then!
Click to expand...

It has fallen - 10 years of mediocrity has that effect - but for a while last year it did feel like United had the right man in charge at last. As to what has happened since, it’s a bit of a mystery that can’t be entirely explained by fatigue (last season) or injuries (this season).

Ultimately, though, until the owners leave, it feels like an endless cycle of brief optimism with CL qualification followed by poor signings and regression.
 
city-puma said:
You are completely nonsense. Maguire didn’t even play. The one he played in mid of the week, we won comfortably against the same opponent. What’s your logic?
Click to expand...
Not nonsense it's cold hard truth, he should have paid Maguire off should have not wasted 60m on onana and 70m on Højlund and gone for a superclinical striker like Kane.
 
The Hilton said:
But it isn't though, is it. That's an actual achievement, and therefore a solid piece of evidence.

If you have a suggested replacement for Ten Hag, let's hear it, along with your reasoning why. Make a good case and I can get behind it, but as I said I haven't seen a single one that isn't just knee jerk on here.
Click to expand...

There's no achievement in finishing top 4 and winning the most pointless domestic trophy out of the possible 3. When you and other Ten Hag fans realize how big Manchester United is supposed to be, we can argue. What you are doing is lowering the standards to rock bottom to justify your manager being shit at his job. Previous managers got top 4 and won domestic titles and they were sacked. Van Gaal sacked after winning an Fa Cup few days before and it's far more prestigious trophy than that pointless League Cup.

Manchester United hasn't progressed one bit since Ole days after 400m and 15 months under our new great coach. Still play eye soring football and struggling to finish top 4. Most of his signings failed and he filled the team with more deadwood we will have to get rid after he leaves.

Replacement? The guy is making me miss Ole. How bad does that sound.

As I said before, if your only argument for keeping a manager at his job is that you can't think of a replacement and not because he is actually doing well at his job, then that means you have no argument for that manager to start with.
 
Mercurial said:
He should have gone for Kane, kept DDG for 1-2 seasons more. Should have battered Maguire to pulp and paid those 7 mills to get rid and gotten KMJ when he had the chance. He is an idealist to a fault and it will be his undoing with us.
Click to expand...

Utter, utter drivel. No way we were getting Kane - that was clear from the start of the summer. And you think it's ETH's fault he didn't get KMJ or couldn't sell Maguire?
 
Chicharo said:
The problems with the club certainly go beyond ETH's achievements as a manager, but I don't see any kind of a system that he implemented, his tactics is questionable as well. He talks about some kind of pressing, but I don't see that either
We have a relatively easier game against Galatasaray now, which probably means they'll sit back and we'll watch the team struggling to create chances. Our group is not that easy at all, and the way we've played we can easily drop points against Copenhagen or in Istanbul, which could lead to an early CL exit. If ETH wants to stay here after January, he needs to start fixing things soon
Click to expand...
I agree with this take but I'd also lay some of the transfer blame on him. He's clearly not competent in that regard either.
 
regardless of the who the replacement would be, it is obvious this guy is not a winner and is out of his depth even trying to guide the club to 4th place.
He is not going to turn it around. He has spent insane money and has nothing to show for it.
 
OrcaFat said:
This could still go either way imo.

Today wasn’t that bad. Don’t get me wrong, I’m annoyed and upset. Objectively we put in a decent effort to break down a very defensive team.

Setting up a low block and trying to nick a goal is the easiest way to get an average team to win (or not lose) matches. Managers who do that are not out-coaching or “schooling” their opponent, they are just doing the only thing they can to try and hang on and somehow get something out of the game. Sometimes it works sometimes not.

I mention this because EtH is trying to establish an attacking way of playing which will win major trophies. This is much harder to do. It takes time to work and you lose some games while it’s developing. There were signs today that the players are starting to get it. But we still lost and, as I’ve been saying, we hate to lose.

Going back to your post: The thing we haven’t tried yet is letting the whole horrible process play out. I mean really just let the thing go even when we’re bottom half and sliding for the trap door. Let it run its course. Cull the players who don’t fight to come out of it. SAF built a team of scrappers, hard men who would literally (if it came to it) fight to the death to survive, to only lose 3-0 instead of 4-0, to finish 12th instead of 13th. Yes the bar has been raised from that but the principle should be the same.

You could ask if we have the right coach to ride that storm out because that is basically what we need: A guy to take the shit, keep taking it, hold his nerve, keep doing the job, not give a feck what people think, to be the last man standing. A guy like that takes players with him - the right sort of players - if they can’t hack it they fall - it takes time and it isn’t pretty but it’s exactly what is required. Is Erik that guy?
Click to expand...
I guess it did work for Arsenal. In a morbid way, it would be interesting to see how bad we could get. At least it would get the buffers who aren't willing to suffer out of the club.
 
OrcaFat said:
This could still go either way imo.

Today wasn’t that bad. Don’t get me wrong, I’m annoyed and upset. Objectively we put in a decent effort to break down a very defensive team.

Setting up a low block and trying to nick a goal is the easiest way to get an average team to win (or not lose) matches. Managers who do that are not out-coaching or “schooling” their opponent, they are just doing the only thing they can to try and hang on and somehow get something out of the game. Sometimes it works sometimes not.

I mention this because EtH is trying to establish an attacking way of playing which will win major trophies. This is much harder to do. It takes time to work and you lose some games while it’s developing. There were signs today that the players are starting to get it. But we still lost and, as I’ve been saying, we hate to lose.

Going back to your post: The thing we haven’t tried yet is letting the whole horrible process play out. I mean really just let the thing go even when we’re bottom half and sliding for the trap door. Let it run its course. Cull the players who don’t fight to come out of it. SAF built a team of scrappers, hard men who would literally (if it came to it) fight to the death to survive, to only lose 3-0 instead of 4-0, to finish 12th instead of 13th. Yes the bar has been raised from that but the principle should be the same.

You could ask if we have the right coach to ride that storm out because that is basically what we need: A guy to take the shit, keep taking it, hold his nerve, keep doing the job, not give a feck what people think, to be the last man standing. A guy like that takes players with him - the right sort of players - if they can’t hack it they fall - it takes time and it isn’t pretty but it’s exactly what is required. Is Erik that guy?
Click to expand...
I get what you mean. Problem is it's quite different back then and now. Different time different generations. Players didn't cost 100m. Lot of things imo.

Anyway agree we should stick with ETH for at least another season regardless of how bad it might be. At least he got the right approach I think. Let's see how this goes by this time next year and support him in the meantime. Of course if we haven't sacked him by then yet.
 
Nicoseth said:
Utter, utter drivel. No way we were getting Kane - that was clear from the start of the summer. And you think it's ETH's fault he didn't get KMJ or couldn't sell Maguire?
Click to expand...
We could have landed it I'm 100% sure.
 
Juggling the players constantly due to injuries and off field dramas...plus the increasing weight of bad results...is making everyone lives miserable connected to the club.

I feel we just need to accept its been a very difficult start to the season and maybe we just try focusing on the cups.
 
Nicoseth said:
Utter, utter drivel. No way we were getting Kane - that was clear from the start of the summer. And you think it's ETH's fault he didn't get KMJ or couldn't sell Maguire?
Click to expand...
Nothing was clear or we would've moved quicker for an alternate. It's ETH's fault he prioritized Mount and Onana.
 
The Hilton said:
When I say progressive I effectively mean more proactive, as recent history has proven teams on the front foot are more likely to win, and therefore more progressive by your definition.

As for your second paragraph, that doesn't just happen overnight. It takes time, smart recruitment, and a willingness to accept poor results during the transition. That's what we're trying now, but our reactionary fans don't have the patience required to see that kind of change through.
Click to expand...
I’d gladly take a 12th place finish this season if we looked like we were transitioning into something other than total shite. The players aren’t doing the basics well and we can’t just keep replacing them because of that, at some point the coaching staff have to do their jobs also.
 
I do think ETH has some qualities that we need. The Sancho,Ronaldo and Maguire situation is one of them. He has done every thing right there.

But he has also bought Antony, Onana etc for huge huge sums. Through his brothers agency... we can bash our recruitment all we want, but all those transfers are ETH transfers and im not sure anyone of them will turn out.
 
fallengt said:
you're joking. Parking bus is not outsmarted
Click to expand...

It is if it works - and we can't find a way to unlock them and play pensive, dreadful football then sub in Maguire and VdB :wenger:

parking the bus is a very valid tactic if you know limitations of your opposition and said opposition can't adapt
 
Eric talks like a United manager, behaves like a united manager, but the dull losing football coupled with a lot of poor signings will do for him. That's putting aside the squad is either injured indisciplined or 30+.

I bumped into Paddy Crerand after the game,so that cheered me up

Bald managers are sooo last year anyway.
 
Didn't expect much better after the summer we had. Solved exactly zero issues. We're still one of the least physical teams in the league and have a stack of players with massive on-field mentality issues - Rashford being top of that list, who we rewarded with a team high contract.

Still don't want Ten Hag out but his transfer hit-rate is outright poor at this point. The fact that he's falling into a Solskjaer-esque pattern of consistently picking players on reputation rather than performance is worrying too.

Overall we're just a badly run club with a squad that's mostly pretty hard to like.
 
Gehrman said:
Ralf, ETH and the Portugal manager benched Ronnie more than he was used to. Maybe he was just like 37 years old. If he was anywhere prime Ronnie they would all suck him off.
Click to expand...

But benching Ronaldo is not the problem. The problem is that ETH could not manage Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is a narcissistic asshole. It doesn't matter. The skill of a manager is to manage the players. The easiest thing to do is to pick fights with them.

Anyway, the discussion is not about Ronaldo, my point is that ETH does not have a plan.

Wout was worse and ETH kept playing him because he had no alternatives. How many goals did Wout score? People thought that there is a plan with Wout, that he fitted better. He did not. He was a random Dutch player, there was no plan. And still there is no plan.
 
TsuWave said:
Pretty much.

I like the way their teams play? What am I supposed to say - I know their birth chart or something? Unai has consistently seen success as a manager - his CV is better than Ten Hag's and Marco Rose has been adding honours to his.

All I see in favour of Ten Hag is "club is toxic, no one would be successful here. We've changed managers before". We can all be reductive.
Click to expand...

Unai teams are famously defensive, and his CV is mostly mid table success from what I'm aware - can you point to any achievements that are the kind United would be aiming for, or any success under the pressure he'd be under here?

As for Rose, he's added one honour, having always been in well structured environments that are nothing like United. He does seem like potentially a good fit for the team that Ten Hag is trying to create here, so maybe in a few years, but right now there's little to suggest he wouldn't be facing the very same problems right now.
 
frostbite said:
[... continued ...]

The other thing that shows there is no plan is that he keeps moving Bruno and Rashford around. Bruno and Rashford are our best players, they should always play in their best positions and have everyone else adapt to them. That's how you build a well-oiled machine. You don't have your preferred RW available? Play a kid on RW, play nobody ... but whatever you do, don't play Bruno on RW, he loses his edge and the whole team gets confused.

Moving around your best players shows that you have no plan as a manager. There is no long-term advantage in using the best players as stopgaps.
Click to expand...

Yes, that’s a fair point. After feeling confident last season with ETH’s great start, I am now becoming seriously worried. I didn’t see the game today and am wary of some of the more hysterical accounts, but there’s really no denying the awful start we’ve had to the season, even allowing for all the injuries. I find myself beginning to question why the manager didn’t play the team that played well in midweek? There was momentum there to capitalise on but he chose not to. Likewise the endless appearances of Rashford regardless of how poorly he plays annd how bad his attitude appears to be- are these examples of ETH’s stubborn adherence to his own preferences in a refusal of pragmatism that runs deep in his character? I am becoming concerned that they are.
 
nickm said:
Why on earth would a player like Kane have chosen us over Bayern? We would have been a sideways move. Be realistic.
Click to expand...
Are you joking? PL goal record, play CL football? Shit ton of money? He would definitely have come here
 
frostbite said:
But benching Ronaldo is not the problem. The problem is that ETH could not manage Ronaldo.

Ronaldo is a narcissistic asshole. It doesn't matter. The skill of a manager is to manage the players. The easiest thing to do is to pick fights with them.

Anyway, the discussion is not about Ronaldo, my point is that ETH does not have a plan.

Wout was worse and ETH kept playing him because he had no alternatives. How many goals did Wout score? People thought that there is a plan with Wout, that he fitted better. He did not. He was a random Dutch player, there was no plan. And still there is no plan.
Click to expand...
FFS he was right about Ronaldo. whatever the problems are this season, are not Ronaldo problems. Move on.
 
Pav1878 said:
Are you joking? PL goal record, play CL football? Shit ton of money? He would definitely have come here
Click to expand...
No, he wouldn’t. He moved to Bayern for the same reason Van Persie moved to us, to win the trophies that his talent warranted. We can’t offer that.
 
I can take the losses I just can’t understand why the football is so bad. Outside of 4-5 teams fighting relegation we are comfortably one of the worst sides in the league when it comes to entertainment the football is absolutely shocking.

A win is usually a 90 minute grind that requires some ‘moment’ to score a goal. There’s no chemistry, no creativity and ultimately no clue on how to attack teams
 
Status
Not open for further replies.