Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I can't believe it's taken so long for people to question ETH. Its like he's been untouchable up to now.

When a manager takes over a team, they very quickly take on the personality of that manager. Look at our attitude under Fergie. Look at how quickly the mood changed at Liverpool under Klopp. City under Pep.

We had so many hammerings last season where we just simply gave up it concerned me that the mentality wasn't right, and thats the easiest thing for a new manager to influence on his team from day one.

Being a good manager/player in Holland is no guarantee that you're good at the top level.

I think he's massively out of his depth.
 
Jackal said:
How is it not Ten Hag’s fault?

Be objective for a minute. Ten Hag must have been aware United would be hindered by FFP in the transfer market, why did he waste more than £100m on Mason Mount & Onana when they weren’t really priority positions.

United could have kept De Gea(he won golden gloves last season). United’s defence wasn’t bad last season. They conceded similar amount of goals as Arsenal but Arsenal scored 30 league goals more & got 9 points higher than United.

It was obvious even to the blind that the attack area(lack of a decenrcentre forward) was where the problem was and a midfield that could control games for large spells. This isn’t rocket science.

Ten Hag abandoned reason and wasted scarce resources on 2 players we don’t really need. The idea behind his recruitment was awful. This was the same guy that thought replacing Ronaldo with Weghorst(0 PL goals in 17 apps last season) was a genius idea.

You watch other teams and you can see what their managers are trying to achieve. Ange has been at Spurs in 5 minutes and he’s totally transformed the club. Ten Hag has no identity, no tactical nous. The football has been frantic and desperate.

What a shit show!!!
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I agree with you about some stuff - not Onana - but definitely Mount, Weghorst and Antony. Amrabat looks like a much needed and useful cog in that midfield so it's hard to understand why he was only brought in as an emergency loan. I also look at Mount and I think of Maddison who was also available - who we could have definitely got too - and who I would rather have in the final third there...

The way I see it is, we haven't seen the plan in action yet. I think he's got a clear idea of how he wants to use Mount but it's not yet apparent.

Regarding wasteful recruitment, a club our size needs a DOF and competent department working in tandem with the manager. There are plenty of good coaches who aren't good at signing players. Re: Ronaldo and De Gear, we can't continue being the Bruno/Rashford 'rabbit out of the hat' team as i put it, just indefinitely. It's a crap long term strategy and only takes Rashford to go off the boil, as he always does, for a few months for disaster to set in.

I disagree about the tactical nous bit, i see a lot of structure and cohesion in the team. Under Ole the losses really were, looked and felt catastrophic - they weren't losses like we have been seeing this season in generally tight scrappy games or against a park the bus shithouse team like Palace. Difference between now and Ole was Palace would have turned up had half of the ball and felt like they could get all three points. They did get all three points today but they pretty much set out to defend the entire game, which says a lot.
 
The obsession with Kane is ridiculous when Spurs are a far better side without him.

Why can't we play as well as Spurs without him is more of a question.
 
OrcaFat said:
Yeah it’s dire and the results are generally down to the decisions he’s making. However I believe he is doing the right things for the long term.

You might say he’s being naive because each defeat is a step towards the sack even if his plans are progressing in the right direction.

I still think it will click soon.
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I want to believe that myself but I don't see what he is building for the long term. He still brings the likes of.maguire dvd eriksen martial but leaves out youngsters like Mejrbi on bench.

He has to take bold steps and stop building the team around rashford and Bruno for starters. The performance that rashford put on should warrant him to be dropped and eth should bench him in the next game.
 
I'm not buying the bad owners argument. there are things you could improve regardless and he simply isn't doing it. competing with City? fair enough. but what is currently happening on the pitch has nothing to do with that. the money has been spent, he got the players he wanted. the Glazers can't be exuse for everything.
 
Redfrog said:
Weirdly enough, Ole was the funniest manager w had since Fergie. We played our best attacking football under him since Fergie. That’s telling !
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No, we didn't. We could only ever counter attack. Not a single manager has played any form of good attacking football since SAF.
 
Glazers can’t afford to sack him, but his stock won’t be high with new owners. One way or another I doubt he’ll be our manager next season.

Recruitment hasn’t been good enough since he joined, club hasn’t sold enough players and squad looks as big a mess as ever. ETH is looking as incapable of progressing as every other manager post SAF.

The club is rotten and it’s just simple reality that it’s not going to change until we get new owners.
 
TsuWave said:
Villa doesn't play defensively. They have exciting wide players, and a technically sound midfield averaging 65% of the ball at home. They have scored 18 in 7. For comparison United has scored 7 in 7. Unai Emery has 4 european trophies, a league title and domestic cups in France.
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They do tend to play with a mid block though, similar to how Solskjaer would set us up. Plus his previous run in the PL, in a much higher pressure job with Arsenal, was generally a failure.

His CV has a lot of mid table success on it, no doubt, and a league win at PSG which is quite difficult to not win. It's a reasonable CV, but we'd be back to counter attacking football.

Marco Rose is the far more interesting if your suggestions, in terms of succession planning. I don't think he's ready yet, but he seems to fit the mould that we're building towards.
 
Paying the price for poor transfers. Was handed a budget most managers would dream of and he couldn’t build a functioning midfield or attack out of it. Others like Newcastle and Brighton have managed to do this for a lot less. Can’t see him here much longer, top 4 is already getting away.
 
Bole Top said:
I'm not buying the bad owners argument. there are things you could improve regardless and he simply isn't doing it. competing with City? fair enough. but what is currently happening on the pitch has nothing to do with that. the money has been spent, he got the players he wanted. the Glazers can't be exuse for everything.
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It's been explained many times. The club has no front office. The entire footballing structure of the club is "here's a pile of money, buy whomever you want. Inshallah."

That doesn't excuse the poor performances, but it certainly limits the club's ability to progress and challenge for trophies.
 
He does need to start taking pretty drastic action about the lack of goals at this point or he'll be gone pretty soon.
 
Tottenham have been transformed under their coach in about 2 months, meanwhile we're in our 2nd year under our glorious manager, playing like shit and giving him all the excuses in the world.

God United has become such a depressing topic to discuss.
 
AshRK said:
I want to believe that myself but I don't see what he is building for the long term. He still brings the likes of.maguire dvd eriksen martial but leaves out youngsters like Mejrbi on bench.

He has to take bold steps and stop building the team around rashford and Bruno for starters. The performance that rashford put on should warrant him to be dropped and eth should bench him in the next game.
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Yeah, I don’t always agree with his selections, far from it.
 
Mercurial said:
He should have gone for Kane, kept DDG for 1-2 seasons more. Should have battered Maguire to pulp and paid those 7 mills to get rid and gotten KMJ when he had the chance. He is an idealist to a fault and it will be his undoing with us.
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Levy was never selling us Kane
 
el3mel said:
Tottenham have been transformed under their coach in about 2 months, meanwhile we're in our 2nd year under our glorious manager, playing like shit and giving him all the excuses in the world.

God United has become such a depressing topic to discuss.
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Losing is depressing.

Tottenham have done okay but it’s a long season.
 
Spurs coming off a bad season, losing a top manager and arguably their best ever player. Yet in weeks they play a completely different brand of football and sit 1 point off the top having already played Arsenal, Liverpool and United.

I can take the loses, I’m not expecting United to win the league but I can’t take the shit drab football its inexcusable
 
Needed a win today to be ‘only’ 4 points behind top 4.

Instead we shit the bed and our joint worst start to a PL season.
 
el3mel said:
There's no achievement in finishing top 4 and winning the most pointless domestic trophy out of the possible 3. When you and other Ten Hag fans realize how big Manchester United is supposed to be, we can argue. What you are doing is lowering the standards to rock bottom to justify your manager being shit at his job. Previous managers got top 4 and won domestic titles and they were sacked. Van Gaal sacked after winning an Fa Cup few days before and it's far more prestigious trophy than that pointless League Cup.

Manchester United hasn't progressed one bit since Ole days after 400m and 15 months under our new great coach. Still play eye soring football and struggling to finish top 4. Most of his signings failed and he filled the team with more deadwood we will have to get rid after he leaves.

Replacement? The guy is making me miss Ole. How bad does that sound.

As I said before, if your only argument for keeping a manager at his job is that you can't think of a replacement and not because he is actually doing well at his job, then that means you have no argument for that manager to start with.
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Your final paragraph is simply false. If there is no better manager out there, then sacking the existing one isn't a sensible idea. If there is, and our current manager was as bad as you say, it should be trivial for you to make a case for another manager who would come in and do a better job. Unfortunately nobody has been able to do that yet, which includes you so far.

If you can make a good case for a replacement then you can get me on board, genuinely, but it needs to be deeper than just "sack the manager and get anyone in".
 
amolbhatia50k said:
For the first time since he joined, I’m genuinely worried. He’s made so much excellent managerial decisions so far and had a really good first year but 4 losses out of 7 has to set alarm bells ringing at a club of this stature. At the end of the day despite him turning the ship around last year, we’re falling apart when it’s now that the football needed to start showing quality. The tactics, coaching, patterns just aren’t showing.

I still feel that he needs time to see through this horrific injury situation and then let’s how things look another 6 months from now - if we haven’t made substantial progress.
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My thoughts to pretty much.
 
The Hilton said:
Your final paragraph is simply false. If there is no better manager out there, then sacking the existing one isn't a sensible idea. If there is, and our current manager was as bad as you say, it should be trivial for you to make a case for another manager who would come in and do a better job. Unfortunately nobody has been able to do that yet, which includes you so far.

If you can make a good case for a replacement then you can get me on board, genuinely, but it needs to be deeper than just "sack the manager and get anyone in".
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He’s a Jose Mourinho fan who is ready to stick the knife on every manager that has come and will come here after Mourinho. He’ll do the same with the next manager : he won’t post much, then as soon as he smells blood he will start asking for his head.
 
Top 4 looks gone already , it is not the points but the fact that there are easily 4 teams and more much better than us.

It is hard to argue that progress is been made , the only thing consistent about us is that we keep spending large sums of money on the squad and we keep underachieving.

I think ETH needs more time , but these displays and results can't continue without repercussions, we need to see some kind of progression.
 
Redplane said:
This. Though I do think the proof is still in the pudding for Spurs. A new manager bounce seems to happen 8/10 times.
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It's just basic stuff he's changed really. A physically strong midfield pair, a tall pacy CB, an athletic fullback and a creative 10. It's not rocket science of what works in the PL.
 
I was questioning him hard about his comments to the media regarding past managers bringing in bad players last year, but caf seemed to be on a witch hunt against me. It's possible that he has a really toxic personality, it's just speculation but still get this feeling.
 
SirMonteyne said:
It's possible that he has a really toxic personality, it's just speculation but still get this feeling.
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I think he's just naive and cant adapt to Premier League football. Like basically every Dutch coach ever.
 
The Hilton said:
Your final paragraph is simply false. If there is no better manager out there, then sacking the existing one isn't a sensible idea. If there is, and our current manager was as bad as you say, it should be trivial for you to make a case for another manager who would come in and do a better job. Unfortunately nobody has been able to do that yet, which includes you so far.

If you can make a good case for a replacement then you can get me on board, genuinely, but it needs to be deeper than just "sack the manager and get anyone in".
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The argument for keeping a manager in his job should be "he's doing well, tactics are good, there's a style of play being implemented, we're improving so no reason to sack him yet, we're getting there", not "He's shit but I can't think of a replacement so let's keep him till we go rock bottom".

So what, sack him and hire a caretaker to save the season while we start searching for a replacement. When we sacked Mourinho and Ole there was no clear name available on the market before taking the decision. We hired a caretaker and stated planning, better than keeping a shit coach ruining the team and we sit there and tell ourselves "It's fine, Guardiola and Klopp aren't available so let's keep him".

Terrible argument.

I prefer hiring Carrick as a caretaker than letting Ten Hag ruin the season. Here I said it. If the situation doesn't improve comes November, I'll be all for this.
 
IrishRedDevil said:
Needed a win today to be ‘only’ 4 points behind top 4.

Instead we shit the bed and our joint worst start to a PL season.
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Would have been “only” six points off top.

Results have been terrible but there’s a glimmer that the team is beginning to function a bit more like it should. We had plenty of good opportunities today, got in good areas, actually played some good stuff. A lot more people would be saying that if we’d just managed to convert two of those scenarios into goals. It makes all the difference to how a performance is perceived.

The lack of goals is not really resulting from a systemic issue it’s just a lack of quality, recently, in the last phase of the attack. Some of it is marginal as well.

There’s no escaping the losses, they really did happen and it’s damned annoying. But the players are “following the rules” better now and with a bit more quality in front of goal, it will look a lot more rosy.
 
I think there’s a lot of good. But naturally some legitimate cause for concerns that are being overblown. These cause for concerns have always existed but last season good results covered them up.

1) The subs are a bit rubbish, last season they were good but this season they often don’t make sense.

2) Playing out of form players. Understandable when you assume form is temporary and class is permanent. But for a manager who was hired to implement a system. It’s becoming concerning that two of the untouchables seem unsuitable to the system.

3) Garnacho is a wc talent for his age. After last year he should be getting more starts.

4) The lack of movement to create openings and patience on and ball to move the opposition about is concerning.

ETH needs to he ruthless. It was easy to be ruthless with Ronaldo, Maguire and now Sancho. Being genuinely ruthless is dropping good and popular players who are jeprodisring the system. Eg Pep dropping Ronaldinho. Or SAF pushing out RVN and Beckham etc.
 
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Very concerned about our attack. Completely toothless. My biggest issue is I don't see how it will get better, don't have much faith in Antony to change anything. Hojlund needs time. And rashford is out of form. Big big problems
 
el3mel said:
Tottenham have been transformed under their coach in about 2 months, meanwhile we're in our 2nd year under our glorious manager, playing like shit and giving him all the excuses in the world.

God United has become such a depressing topic to discuss.
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But people on here will tell you it’s not possible without spending another £500m and it’s all the Glazers fault we can’t beat Palace.
 
"we have to be more clinical and be better with our decision making", well, yes but I've heard that one a few times over the years. Frustrating to have a forward line over the past few years of inept or inconsistent finishers/creators (Antony, Sancho, Rashford) or kids still learning (Hojlund, Garnacho, Pellistri). That could ultimately be what gets him the sack :( . Very reminiscent of 2014-15 for me, although Hojlund hasn't had the same impact (so far) as Martial did.
 
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