Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Rashford feeling aggrieved for his friend Sancho could be something. Some of us noted how Sancho looked fitter and stronger in his early appearances in the league which shows he was working harder or on a better trajectory. Now that might still not be good enough, he could've lapsed just after that or done something we don't know of.

If Sancho was working harder and towards improving then it might've been better to let him carry on be a squad option and keep people onside. If ETH ultimately wants to get rid we could put him in the shop window instead of lowering his value and the team moral that may see a player unfairly treated. Yes he was given lots of chances last season but there's a better way to handle these things, it seems ill timed.
 
THE ZOL said:
For all those who make unlimited excuses for ETH, I want to ask you a very simple question.

Just remove from the equation that Ajax 2018/19 season where Frenkie De Jong demonstrated that he is truly a generational talent and was within seconds of carrying Ajax to the Champions League final.

Let us also consider that after Frenkie’s departure to FC Barcelona, Ajax’s performances in Europe have been as follows:

-2019/20: 3rd in group stage and round of 16 exit in the Europa (Getafe).
-2020/21: 3rd in group stage and quarter final exit in the Europa (AS Roma).
-2021/22: 1st in the group stage (relatively easier group but 6 wins in 6 deserves credit) and round of 16 exit (Benfica).

Has Ten Hag done enough in his career to earn the role of Manchester United manager?

I ask this because when I was excited about Ten Hag’s hiring, I preferred him to Pochettino. I felt that Ten Hag was on an upward trajectory compared to Poch. This was due to a perception that he was over-performing with Ajax and pulling rabbits out of the hat.

But looking back on it, while his European feats may have been remarkable by the standards of Ajax and an Eredivisie club, they do not seem enough to get the job at a club like United.

Granted he may have been hired for the style of play implemented at Ajax (even though Ajax have a structure and tradition that is conducive to possession football). Perhaps the thinking was that, if he had access to the resources at United, he would get us over-achieving too.

But where are the giant killings during which he displayed the tactical nous that gives a team the edge following the sale of Frenkie? Getting eliminated from Europe by Getafe and Benfica isn’t a good look.

I started having these thoughts after the 7-0 at Anfield but this torrid start to the season has solidified them. The dysfunctional environment at United is a fair excuse, but I’ve seen Big Ange at Spurs already implement a style of play with far worse players and he inherited from Conte and Mourinho!

United’s squad is blamed for Ten Hag’s failures but I question his squad building also. For example, why did he sign Hojlund? He is a good player, but given Rashford’s contract and that he is an untouchable Carrington product, it would have made sense to sign a number 9 that plays to his strengths, perhaps the same profile as Martial. Someone who drops deep, connects the play and creates space for Rashford to run in behind. Instead we signed a strikers who’s strengths are also running in behind, which subsequently exposes Rashford’s weaknesses (he doesn’t cross often and he can’t create chances). Ironically enough, the perfect profile to bring out the best of our £72m signing is someone like Sancho but he has not even had a chance to play with him.

I could go on all day about Ten Hag’s confusing tactical choices:
- Bruno on the right-wing.
-Weghorst and Antony’s unlimited chances
The 3-1-6 build-up that leaves the 1 isolated on defensive transitions.
- Playing two number 10s but without one of the full-backs inverting to solidify the middle.
-The ‘minimum width’ principle whereby wingers do not stretch the opposition defensive which then creates congestion in-front of the opponents goal and lets them stay compact.

All of these things are making me view Ten Hag as more LvG than a future SAF. For the life of me I cannot understand the logic of these choices and I would really appreciate it if somebody explained to me their pros because all I can see is cons! Please feel free to enlighten me. I am willing to change my mind upon the receiving new information.

Perhaps the Ten Hag we wanted to envisage in our heads is not the same Ten Hag we have in front of us.
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Besides the utter bollocks statement in bold, (Tadic was the player that season), I actually agree and think their run in the UCL was a fluke and was down to literally otherworldly performances by players who performed several levels above their benchmark. They managed to get to a semi-final, there are plenty of plucky teams who did and have done so. Alas, we seem to hold that feat, for some reason, in exceptionally high esteem, even though they got dumped out by Spurs.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
What did those 5-star recruits go on to do?
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Went to different schools -- they still made it to the NBA.

The current coach's a Knight disciple but he has little 'nudges' to motivate players. Like showing the player the stats and it 'shows' that he's afraid of the opposite number sort of thing. Woodson has to be a lot more subtle and needs to finesse his points across.
 
Grande said:
The issue at a club like United, is that with the masses following the club, the seagulls that follow them, and the mass psychology of it all (just watch this place), negativity filters through to the entire club personnel in a way that doesn’t happen at any other club in the PL for instance. RM and Barcelona may be the only comparable clubs.

What happens to very ordinary people in such ‘critique pressure tanks’, is often ugly, it’s difficult to avoid people turning on each other.

Remember, for Ferguson to be able to turn the club around, he needed five years, including replacing practically the entire squad. Even then, he shocked everyone just two seasons after our first league win in 25 years, by sending three marquee players out the door, with no like for like replacements comming in. Likewise with stars like Beckham, Veron, Van Nistelrooy. Didn’t matter what they cost, their standing in the dressing room, or among the fans. Or eve nif we spent a season or two trophyless ajdjusting to the loss. That was the priority it had, to be able to control the squad.

Either Glazer/Arnold backs Ten Hag through a couple more seasons of revolving doors, or it’s rinse and repeat for the fifth time.
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That ship has sailed. I have never seen a manager be more clear in wanting to get rid of a player than Ten Hag with Maguire. Yet we couldn't bring ourselves to pay him off a small part of the transfer fee to get him out the door. It will have showed everyone in that dressing room that even being frozen out, stripped of the captaincy and ridiculed won't be enough to force you out, money is what matters, not what the manager wants - the manager is powerless in the face of that.

All Sancho needs to do when they try to sell him, for example, is refuse to take a pay-cut, demand compensation and lo and behold, he will remain a Man Utd player and probably outlast Ten Hag.
 
How many times will we see a manager get over-run by the players at this club.... It has happened to all managers post Fergie with different squads each time! It can only mean the culture is abysmal. We have become the most toxic club in world football where the players are over-payed and think they are bigger than the club! I think Erik Ten-Hag should get public backing from the execs of the club to put the players in their place.... until the Glazers are gone we will never truly fix all the problems at the club but I think ETH's tough approach is a good start! Hopefully in January we can do what we should have in summer and get rid of Maguire, McT and Sancho (even if its a loan). Win against Burnley and the media will die down again as usual!!!
 
sglowrider said:
Went to different schools -- they still made it to the NBA.

The current coach's a Knight disciple but he has little 'nudges' to motivate players. Like showing the player the stats and it 'shows' that he's afraid of the opposite number sort of thing. Woodson has to be a lot more subtle and needs to finesse his points across.
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I get you can't be at 100 all the time, but going hard on the players at times, keeps standards up, people really struggle to self-motivate or be self-critical nowadays.
 
Those player should feck off. I can’t believe that we are in the same place with them trying to sack another manager (if those rumors are true)

Arsenal is good example of how United should proceed now. Stick to the manager for another season and then evaluate. I remember that many Arsenal fans were calling to sack Arteta and how suddenly everyone is talking how brilliant he is.
 
santeria13 said:
The thing that makes it all the more likely is the article mentioning ETH criticising how easily Rashford was bypassed by Leroy Sane. Also, people using the excuse that Rashford is one of his 'favourites', it doesn't mean that Rashford may not be unhappy at ETH's selection in other areas of the pitch, namely ETH's 'favourite' Antony over his mate Sancho.

On top of this, his body language and attitude has been completely off compared to how it was last season. The last time we saw him like this was under Rangnick and we all know how that went.

Also, as a sidenote - is there a single manager except perhaps LVG, who Rashford hasn't had issues with at some point? I think that says it all.
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Can't disagree with any of this.
 
Imagine this:

It’s 2045. Garnacho is Manchester United manager, spearheading it’s 121st “rebuild” under the ownership of the Glazer’s grandkids.
 
santeria13 said:
The thing that makes it all the more likely is the article mentioning ETH criticising how easily Rashford was bypassed by Leroy Sane. Also, people using the excuse that Rashford is one of his 'favourites', it doesn't mean that Rashford may not be unhappy at ETH's selection in other areas of the pitch, namely ETH's 'favourite' Antony over his mate Sancho.

On top of this, his body language and attitude has been completely off compared to how it was last season. The last time we saw him like this was under Rangnick and we all know how that went.

Also, as a sidenote - is there a single manager except perhaps LVG, who Rashford hasn't had issues with at some point? I think that says it all.
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Aye, seems like there's one common denominator is all of those.

The guy has downed tools before and point blank refused to work hard off the ball. Which is what he's doing now. Smacks of a guy who thinks he's too good to have to change his ways for a new manager. It's 3/4 now and the cycle seems to be repeating itself again.

The fact that at on loan full back shows more intensity and desire than a guy who's been a life long Utd fan and player is pretty telling. He just can't be arsed, only wants to play when he doesn't have to chase the ball.

Time to give someone a chance to clear the road before these whinging saps throw him under the bus again.
 
This time i hope we back him to the fullest. Dont hesitate in selling anyone from the team ( including Rashford if he is the one leaking it).
Sancho should be sold next transfer window.

I hope Rashford isnt the one but he had issue with all the managers who have been at United.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I get you can't be at 100 all the time, but going hard on the players at times, keeps standards up, people really struggle to self-motivate or be self-critical nowadays.
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Imagine if ETH had kicked a boot and hit one of the players, causing some slight cut above the eyes. Can you imagine the outrage from the media, fans, pundits and celebrities?

I suspect ETH would have lost his job with immediate effect. Half the Caf ould be outraged and demanding his sacking.
 
RuudTom83 said:
Exactly the club waited and waited until the team was beaten comfortably a few times, then panicked and overpaid...how that is EtH's fault is beyond me.

Unless you expect the United manager to coach, scout, negotiate deals and discipline the squad, while everyone else at the club gets off without taking any responsibility whatsoever.
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I don't understand why ETH is blameless when it comes to the club agreeing on a transfer fee.

He will know he has a finite amount of funds to rebuild the squad. You don't need to be a financial genius to know that if you spend a lot in one area then you have less in another. If Antony turned out to be an absolute diamond then we'd all be singing ETH's praises but so far he hasn't warranted pushing the financial boat out to land him at any cost.

It's early days this season and too early to call it but there are signs that ETH may have done the same with Mason Mount
 
I absolutely long for the day when there is zero drama at united and we are back to destroying teams, maybe that is more of a pipe dream than than actually getting rid of the glaziers!
 
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
I don't understand why ETH is blameless when it comes to the club agreeing on a transfer fee.

He will know he has a finite amount of funds to rebuild the squad. You don't need to be a financial genius to know that if you spend a lot in one area then you have less in another. If Antony turned out to be an absolute diamond then we'd all be singing ETH's praises but so far he hasn't warranted pushing the financial boat out to land him at any cost.

It's early days this season and too early to call it but there are signs that ETH may have done the same with Mason Mount
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So how much blame would you give to the manager in that situation? 50% 75%

In the latest press conference EtH mentioned all transfers are 50/50 between EtH and the club (John Murtough) which either side can veto.

So in that sense EtH is 50% to blame...I would suggest identifying the player is 50/50 but actual negotiating and structuring a deal is far more under the control of the club.
 
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DRJosh said:
Imagine this:

It’s 2045. Garnacho is Manchester United manager, spearheading it’s 121st “rebuild” under the ownership of the Glazer’s grandkids.
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That part that depresses me is that by that time, Garnacho will still be younger than I am now. :(
 
pratyush_utd said:
Maguire or Sancho has to be the one leaking this in my opinion.
AWB and Shaw has been playing non stop since world cup. Mount has just come. Rashford is one of his favourites. Dont think non British players would have such access to leak in British media
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Exactly, not hard to find the leak.
British and has reasons to be annoyed at the manager. Sancho/AWB/Mctominay/Maguire. one or some of them are the culprits.

Also, I feel like there's something going on with AWB as well. He was dropped the first game after having pics taken with Sancho in New York despite being in good form. Then he's suddenly out for 2 months. Weird.

Maybe I'm overthinking though.
 
the_cliff said:
Exactly, not hard to find the leak.
British and has reasons to be annoyed at the manager. Sancho/AWB/Mctominay/Maguire. one or some of them are the culprits.

Also, I feel like there's something going on with AWB as well. He was dropped the first game after having pics taken with Sancho in New York despite being in good form. Then he's suddenly out for 2 months. Weird.

Maybe I'm overthinking though.
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My favourite leak from a few years ago was where the ‘snitch’ was talking about all the things bad behind the scenes and they signed off with “and all the lads think Lingard should be playing in the first team”.

It’s always obvious who’s complaining.
 
A team of Onana/Dalot, Varane, Martinez, Reguilon/Casemiro, Amrabat, Bruno/Garnacho, Hojlund, Pellistri is probably the best one we can play in the near term of mostly players who would feel like they owe ten Hag for bringing them in and are therefore the least likely to give up in effort or ditch tactical discipline. If ten Hag feels he's being undermined, I have to think he'd drop even Rashford or Bruno. At least he's greatly reduced the number of potential rotten apples since he's arrived.
 
shabadu84 said:
Haha who might that be then, Maguire, McTominay, and VDB?
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I doubt Donny would give a shit about Sancho tbh

I can see Rashford and Martial not being to pleased with Sancho being banished. Possibly Maguire, but again would Maguire and Sancho ever be mates outside Carrington.
 
pratyush_utd said:
This time i hope we back him to the fullest. Dont hesitate in selling anyone from the team ( including Rashford if he is the one leaking it).
Sancho should be sold next transfer window.

I hope Rashford isnt the one but he had issue with all the managers who have been at United.
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Did he?
 
THE ZOL said:
Has Ten Hag done enough in his career to earn the role of Manchester United manager?
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I would say he has done enough to get a shot at the job but not nearly enough to have unconditional support and be given hundreds of millions to spend on "his" players. If it doesn't work out with him people will again go with the "this proves it's not the manager" when in reality, as you say, he has never performed at the top level and while calling that semi final a "fluke" would be a bit harsh, there are plenty of other clubs and managers who did the same but never reached those heights again.
 
RuudTom83 said:
I doubt Donny would give a shit about Sancho tbh

I can see Rashford and Martial not being to pleased with Sancho being banished. Possibly Maguire, but again would Maguire and Sancho ever be mates outside Carrington.
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Yeah ok probably not VDB. Rashford, sure it could be - he's not looked great and has been under deserved criticism lately. But at the same time he is playing in Sancho's preferred left wing spot and is usually the player most often shoe-horned into the team.

Anyway, it's clear there are a couple of unhappy players who are ready and willing to undermine the manager in the press. But this is another recurring symptom of the poor structure at the club. The manager has made it clear he wants the likes of McT, Maguire, VDB, and Martial gone and instead they all are still here giving us half-hearted efforts. That's the same that happened to LVG, Jose, and Ole.
 
Cassidy said:
Did he?
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Except Van Gaal, yes. With one google search for every manager since, will find you numerous articles with briefings from Rashford's camp about problems he has with the manager at the time. Even with Ole, who had a good relationship with him for most of his time here.
 
pratyush_utd said:
This time i hope we back him to the fullest. Dont hesitate in selling anyone from the team ( including Rashford if he is the one leaking it).
Sancho should be sold next transfer window.

I hope Rashford isnt the one but he had issue with all the managers who have been at United.
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absolutely agree in backing ETH 100% on an ongoing basis, even if this turns out to be a painful season.

I don't think its Rashford leaking. I would not make any sense for him as if anything Rashford would be one of ETHs favorites and seems to be undroppeable.
Most likely Sancho sniping from the reserve team sidelines or maybe Maguire.
 
Stobzilla said:
It'll be England lot, 100%.
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Quite obviously, the fact only one of them actually plays may work to ten Hag's advantage as the others will be very easily shipped off. They can cry all they want but Sancho will be fecked off in January.
 
pratyush_utd said:
This time i hope we back him to the fullest. Dont hesitate in selling anyone from the team ( including Rashford if he is the one leaking it).
Sancho should be sold next transfer window.

I hope Rashford isnt the one but he had issue with all the managers who have been at United.
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The issue with selling players is that you need a buyer
 
He is getting visibly more frustrated with the players i feel; the comment from the presser that if you have just one or two players not working hard the whole thing collapses is telling and that's especially relevant with the type of high pressing ten Hag wants his team to do. Majority of players are still with him but i expect a few definitely want rid of him for the chance of another fresh start.

A lot of people on here are saying its just media speculation and they're just making trouble but what was remarkable to me was how much of a denial there was during Ralf's time here about the stories in the press and the majority of it turned out to be true months later (the Ronaldo stuff was confirmed in THAT interview, the situations with Lingard, Henderson etc.). People will also say that these aren't the same players that threw Jose/Ole/Ralf under the bus but the culture can be perpetuated by bringing in new players that add to it. As someone said above I don't think the likes of Casemiro, Varane and Martinez are going to be leaking stuff to the press or complaining but we already know about Sancho. There's also undeniably been a survivor culture at United-players that have not won an awful lot, have played for successive managers and might just survive another one:

Dalot
Rashford
McTominay
Shaw
Martial
Lindelof

I'm NOT saying all those players are inherently bad or suspicious, just saying they've been through a lot of failures at the club. We also got rid of DDG, Fred, Henderson and Jones who seemed to be part of that long term group of players.

Hopefully we can go on a run from now on with an easier set of fixtures, maybe the likes of Maguire, McTominay and Sancho can find new clubs in January and we can bring one or two new players in. I'm just hoping EtH survives that long.
 
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