Sancho, Scott Macjogminey, Maguire and Probably Rashford as well since he's close with these "British lads"
Hope ETH kick all the rats
Hope ETH kick all the rats
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I think it will be painful but neccesary. There are some over entitled players at this club on big contracts who want to blame their shortcomings on someone else all the time, and have been used to getting their own way when they do. They're not going to go quietly when they can just stab the manager in the back to give themslves another year at a big club. Every time we have a bad spell, the stories will be back. We just need to see it through because you can't build a winning culture with players like that in the squad.
Maguire seems an obvious shout just due to how the people around him seem to love to talk to the media every chance they get.
Don't really understand the talk of Rashford personally, seems like people want it to be him due to an already established dislike for him. It doesn't seem logical.
Don't really understand the talk of Rashford personally, seems like people want it to be him due to an already established dislike for him. It doesn't seem logical.
I think he is in the downward spiral now and there is no way back, BUT…
…if anyone at the club really wants to change things and remove the toxic cloud, it means a total rebuild and to remove those influential figures within the club that dictate the climate.
We need to sell Rashford, Shaw, Martial, Sancho, McTominey and Bruno and start again without their influence.
Those are the key instigators and players with the most long term influence.
It needs a total cleanse, but unlike at Arsenal, we don’t have a Josh Kroenke willing to bank that cleanse.
The players are safe, they have too much power and they know it.
…if anyone at the club really wants to change things and remove the toxic cloud, it means a total rebuild and to remove those influential figures within the club that dictate the climate.
We need to sell Rashford, Shaw, Martial, Sancho, McTominey and Bruno and start again without their influence.
Those are the key instigators and players with the most long term influence.
It needs a total cleanse, but unlike at Arsenal, we don’t have a Josh Kroenke willing to bank that cleanse.
The players are safe, they have too much power and they know it.
'Painful but necessary' , you put that perfectly. I would be fine with a midtable season this season just to wait out the bad eggs in the squad. As fans we need to stay calm, ignore the media and pundits and let Erik go through with his process. In a few years Sancho, Maguire et al (and hopefully the Glazers) will be distant memories. If the club gets rid of ETH it will just be another recycle job and we will be right back here again in a couple of years with the same players making excuses.
Our next 7 games are very winnable. 5 at home.
Mount, Varane, Amrabat coming back.
At the end of the 7 fixtures we should have Shaw, AWB, Mainoo, Amad all back.
We should get back to being defensively solid and not conceding.
Mount, Varane, Amrabat coming back.
At the end of the 7 fixtures we should have Shaw, AWB, Mainoo, Amad all back.
We should get back to being defensively solid and not conceding.
We need these players as they bring personality with them
The performances Amrabat will need to put in to come anywhere close to the expectations and pressure already being put on him before he’s even kicked a ball for us is crazy.
Not so sure about Maguire. He was dropped for all of last season and we didn't hear much.
To be fair we didn’t hear too much from anyone last season! Second it goes wrong on the pitch the stories start leaking out though.
Reading some of these posts is confirming that we need to be tolerant here because it's going to get bumpy (OK, it already is).
It's about incremental improvement, which might actually mean we slide back from last season before we see another uplift - I just can't take anyone seriously if they think we're challenging City, Arsenal or, yes, Liverpool - where we gradually manage to rid ourselves of players who have no future. Players who leak, disrupt and distract, all of them products of the years-long failure to run the club to a high standard. Painful but necessary is a good way of framing it.
The reality is that we're never going make real, sustainable, progress until we have owners, investment and re-set that will allow us to write-off our specialists in failure - VdB and Martial are free transfers, Maguire and McT are declining in value every month, nobody outside of a Saudi bid is wanting Sancho at more than a fire sale fee - and begin to develop a proper recruitment strategy.
And its the recruitment strategy that will take time, even in a best case scenario. We're going to get waste until it gears up and starts to function as anything close to the City model - honestly, it feels like 2-3 years to see something that's beginning to work, double that to start matching the best.
I'll be happy with 5-6th if we are starting to see progress, ideally with us seeing much less or nothing of McT, Sancho and Maguire, and much more of Mainoo, Amad and Hojlund, in the hope they can all be part of a better future.
Buckle-up.
It's about incremental improvement, which might actually mean we slide back from last season before we see another uplift - I just can't take anyone seriously if they think we're challenging City, Arsenal or, yes, Liverpool - where we gradually manage to rid ourselves of players who have no future. Players who leak, disrupt and distract, all of them products of the years-long failure to run the club to a high standard. Painful but necessary is a good way of framing it.
The reality is that we're never going make real, sustainable, progress until we have owners, investment and re-set that will allow us to write-off our specialists in failure - VdB and Martial are free transfers, Maguire and McT are declining in value every month, nobody outside of a Saudi bid is wanting Sancho at more than a fire sale fee - and begin to develop a proper recruitment strategy.
And its the recruitment strategy that will take time, even in a best case scenario. We're going to get waste until it gears up and starts to function as anything close to the City model - honestly, it feels like 2-3 years to see something that's beginning to work, double that to start matching the best.
I'll be happy with 5-6th if we are starting to see progress, ideally with us seeing much less or nothing of McT, Sancho and Maguire, and much more of Mainoo, Amad and Hojlund, in the hope they can all be part of a better future.
Buckle-up.
I would agree with this. Bruno, Casemiro, Licha and Onana have the right mentality IMHO. Rashford can get in his own head a bit, Eriksen is a pro but not a leader. We desperately need Varane back. ETH needs to further lift the squad.
I really hope he starts Amad and Mainoo in some of these games coming up. We need someone like Garnacho to rise up.
Bench the lot of them and field a team of Kinder Egg toys.
Only in part. Even the greatest motivational managers can't motivate literally any player, no matter how bad their attitude. You have to have players with the right basic atttiude in the first place, then its down to the manager to get them pumped up for the right moments. If you have the wrong kind of players at the club, then it doesn't matter what manager you have, you'll get the same results.
And following on from that post, let's say, we do get new owners, serious investment, and better people in the right positions (excluding manager for this scenario), sometime soon: when do you think we could have a realistic aim of challenging for titles again?
I think we're looking at a minimum 3-4 years, when there's no Pep at City, Klopp might have gone, but Newcastle (Howe having been replaced) have emerged as a much stronger challenger, having recruited well and got at least close to winning the PL.
Thinking about that sort timeline you get a situation where we're needing to dump a significant group of players asap (the 'nows': dump within 12 months) and ease-out / replace another group over a slightly longer period (say 2-3 years: the 'nexts').
The 'nows' include Maguire (a good professional in lots of ways but the whole England ego thing is a problem: the sooner he goes the better); McT (never good enough, not now, next or ever); VdB (obviously), Martial (8 years now?!) and Sancho (a waster: serous people who know what they're doing would never have signed him). You could add to that group I'm sure.
The 'nexts' need to include Shaw (great when in form, but with regular injuries sometimes attitude, and been here too long); Bruno (talented but he doesn't fit and is he really part of what we want 3 years from now?); Rashford (not as good as many think: would he be a player Pep or Klopp would guarantee a place to?); and Casemiro (a sticking plaster, who isn't going to stick much longer) Again there are probably others.
And all this ignores a raft of current players at fullback, in central defence and in wide positions.
It's a huge mission and I'm not sure any club has done it before: that's how far we've fallen in 10 years+
I think we're looking at a minimum 3-4 years, when there's no Pep at City, Klopp might have gone, but Newcastle (Howe having been replaced) have emerged as a much stronger challenger, having recruited well and got at least close to winning the PL.
Thinking about that sort timeline you get a situation where we're needing to dump a significant group of players asap (the 'nows': dump within 12 months) and ease-out / replace another group over a slightly longer period (say 2-3 years: the 'nexts').
The 'nows' include Maguire (a good professional in lots of ways but the whole England ego thing is a problem: the sooner he goes the better); McT (never good enough, not now, next or ever); VdB (obviously), Martial (8 years now?!) and Sancho (a waster: serous people who know what they're doing would never have signed him). You could add to that group I'm sure.
The 'nexts' need to include Shaw (great when in form, but with regular injuries sometimes attitude, and been here too long); Bruno (talented but he doesn't fit and is he really part of what we want 3 years from now?); Rashford (not as good as many think: would he be a player Pep or Klopp would guarantee a place to?); and Casemiro (a sticking plaster, who isn't going to stick much longer) Again there are probably others.
And all this ignores a raft of current players at fullback, in central defence and in wide positions.
It's a huge mission and I'm not sure any club has done it before: that's how far we've fallen in 10 years+
Now there's one problem with ETH for me: he talks about being strict, making certain standards yet keeps on picking Maguire and McTominay into the squad and first team.
Hell, even Cristiano who was openly in diva mode kept playing and being selected as captain, and if he wasn't stupid enough to go to PM for interview (thanks God he did) I'm sure he would keep on playing in first team. maybe as captain for the rest of the season. This way ETH looks like hypocrite in some way and weak in eyes of players because for all the talk there aren't proper consequences.
Fecking Arteta binned Auba, captain at the time, without second guessing his decision eventhough it made Arsenal weaker in short term. ETH will talk about certain players being not up to required standard and then plays excatly those players over and over again. Poor managment IMO and it only makes player power higher than managers when it should be other way around.
Hell, even Cristiano who was openly in diva mode kept playing and being selected as captain, and if he wasn't stupid enough to go to PM for interview (thanks God he did) I'm sure he would keep on playing in first team. maybe as captain for the rest of the season. This way ETH looks like hypocrite in some way and weak in eyes of players because for all the talk there aren't proper consequences.
Fecking Arteta binned Auba, captain at the time, without second guessing his decision eventhough it made Arsenal weaker in short term. ETH will talk about certain players being not up to required standard and then plays excatly those players over and over again. Poor managment IMO and it only makes player power higher than managers when it should be other way around.
But it does mean that in 2032 or something, he's going to come off the bench and win us the Champions League yay!That part that depresses me is that by that time, Garnacho will still be younger than I am now.
But the story initially that rolled when this blew up was along the lines of 'sancho's even got his teammates fed up with it now' so which was right? Neither? Six of one and half a dozen of the other?
They could be annoyed that Sancho's becoming much better at Call of Duty with all this spare time on his hands?
I’ll take that!
If only there was a way to escape criticism from the manager... Reckon we could make a list on here? I'll start.
1) After being on the pitch for ten minutes, make sure that you're not outrun by the referee when you lose the ball in a dangerous position due to a poor touch.
1) After being on the pitch for ten minutes, make sure that you're not outrun by the referee when you lose the ball in a dangerous position due to a poor touch.
People may disagree with me here but ETH shouldn’t be going anywhere this season. Arteta finished 8th twice in a row when he first took charge of Arsenal, so it took him roughly 3 seasons to get something out of that squad and I think they’ve only got a few players who are still there when he took over. It took Klopp about 3 years, it took Guardiola a couple of seasons but obvs he got the resources. ETH has had to deal with so much, he’s got the Antony situation, he’s got the Sancho situation, he’s had to deal with Greenwood, Ronaldo, the ownership being unstable. Also no top manager should have to deal with the transfers all on there own, most top teams have a top director of football, we haven’t got that… ETH is not to blame for us spending 90m on Antony, he was a 50m player at most but that’s what happens when you have someone who can’t negotiate. He’ll have to do something really mad or finish bottom halve for him to be sacked this season. We don’t really want to get into the habit of hiring and firing managers after a couple of seasons. I’m expecting in the future us to get bought out, all our deadwood to have been sold and for us to be in a strong position when it’s time to take over from our rivals city!
If he can run, do the odd sprint, control the ball 70% of the time, and not leak anything to the press, he'll probably be the best performer on the pitch along with Hoijlund
Just seen his press conference. Thought he did okay. He is irritated by the constant inquest into every perceived problem (who wouldn’t be?), but I like how he deals with it - he thinks it’s weird but he also doesn’t give a shit.
I believe he is a good coach but, just as importantly, he is a strong personality. That’s what will get him through this spell. He will outlast the players who can’t buy into him - the likes of Sancho (and probably a few others). I give our board enough credit to recognise they have the right person and stick with it. Nobody is sack-proof but I think it will have to get extremely bad before his job is at risk.
I think we’ll turn the corner soon.
I believe he is a good coach but, just as importantly, he is a strong personality. That’s what will get him through this spell. He will outlast the players who can’t buy into him - the likes of Sancho (and probably a few others). I give our board enough credit to recognise they have the right person and stick with it. Nobody is sack-proof but I think it will have to get extremely bad before his job is at risk.
I think we’ll turn the corner soon.
His number one job is to clear the squad and make the team play like a real team again. We need to stop overpaying and get a solid salery structure. I think he is on the right track here, I have doubts about the tactics and so on, but for me this is sadly not the most important part. Just sell all the deadwood and snitching players, from there we can build our future.
I don’t know what to say if you can’t appreciate the way ETH handled Maguire. He dropped him from first team and eventually removed from captaincy. If he immediately binned imagine what would be the outcry. You can’t just remove a player from squad unless he behaves like the way Sancho did.
regarding Mct we really don’t have an option because we can’t play Eriksen for 90 mins. Once Mount and Amrabat are back I don’t think we will see MCT.
Back ETH 100%. There are very few players in this squad I'd be upset to see gone these days, sad as that is.
I wouldn't mind seeing the back of anyone. None of them is worth it.
I'd be sad to see Martinez leave. Still a fan of Bruno despite his faults. Casemiro's great and I think Onana will come good in the long run. Mainoo hasn't done anything to upset me yet..
Rashfords fluctuating effort levels are maddening, great as he can be. Shaw, AWB, meh.
Slim pickings !
It doesn't sound good when he says he doesn't know why the team still doesn't have the required mentality.
Kinda make sense.
I just think it is ludicrous that Luckhurst is there asking questions.
I also feel he doesn't need to explain himself so much to these cnuts. Give short answers, steer the talk back to what he wants to talk about and leave it at that.
I also feel he doesn't need to explain himself so much to these cnuts. Give short answers, steer the talk back to what he wants to talk about and leave it at that.
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It was a slightly surprising answer, where on everything else it was a straight bat response. I suppose if he had said he knew what it was, then the next obvious question is what and then he can be in another Sancho situation. Possibly the wisest move was to say they are working on the team with it, but that is kind of what he said afterwards about having the tools to find out.
Would have been funny if ETH turned the 'what is wrong with the mentality' question round and told the journalist to ask Luckhurst as his sources know what is going on. Also a good way of saying we are watching you.
I do think he should be given more time after a good season last year.
Though some of the issues are self inflicted. He could have probably avoided the Ronaldo and Sancho dramas. Having Ronaldo in the team, even if it meant padding his ego, would have been a better option than Weghorst.
ETH may not have authorised the 90mil spend on Anthony, but he would have known the amount spent. As you said, i think the club overspent massively and Ten Hag will have to wear that as he will always be seen as his guy. Remember, it was on deadline day after defeats to Brighton and Brentford, so he / the club panicked.
Were ETH / the club not aware of any other wingers? They could have signed Doku and Olise for less that what they paid for Anthony. Or even given Sancho a shot to claim the right forward slot.
Yeah, I would have enjoyed that. LVG would have possible done that.
There's no question that Ronaldo had to go. Same as Fergie with Keane.
The Sancho thing is just very confusing to me as it's almost entirely a situation created by Sancho, to the extent I have to assume people that think it's on ten Hag haven't actually seen the question and answer in the press conference that started it.
He dropped Sancho when we are in dire need of him on the RW.
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