Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JuriM]

People defending ETH at all costs seem at first to have a method to their madness. But on second thought, I suppose they don't know what they are talking.

How can you not defend ETH ffs? A manager who has had to deal with more off-the-pitch madness in the club than on the pitch, A manager who has half of his 23-man first team injured or unavailable. A manager whose club is in the midst of an unknown future whether the ownership. And more and more.

 

[NZT-One]

I said last season that the biggest mistake he could make is thinking Bruno and Rashford would be the players to lead us to the next level. It will guarantee he will lose his job, because those two have taken us as far as they can and that was the season under Ole where we finished 2nd and made the EL final and last season.

His misplaced loyalty to these two is what will keep us stagnant.

Saying that I think that’s his second or third biggest mistake.

His biggest mistake by a mile for me is him building a fecking terribly unbalanced squad. From the look of the team and squad I have absolutely no idea what he’s trying to achieve here. He has players that don’t complement each other across the pitch and a severely athletically deficient team.

Quite simply he has no idea of how to build a successful side at this level from what I’ve seen. It’s easy achieving success in Holland but at this higher level he doesn’t seem to respect just how good you need to be. If not he wouldn’t make bullshit average signings or recommend to bring in players like Evans or Weghorst.

I agree with your prognosis that building on those two could be his downfall. "Guarantee" is a bit much though. And to a degree, it is a pretty difficult mistake not to make... I mean, they are our best players, lets not act as if it wouldn't have been with repercussions to just leave them out.

I don't think the squad is all that unbalanced. My interpretation is, that he wants us to be a compact team that moves around the pitch as a collective, which should prevent distances between players getting to big and which should help at the press. That being said, he has a physically dominant DM in Casemiro who can cover the central areas (at least he did last year), in front of him you have two Players with workrate that certainly take part in the press and are capable to create chances. You have a phyiscal and mobile striker, that should occupy the backline pushing them back and you have fast wingplayers on the outside of the pitch, stretching the play and capable of winning a 1on1.

Obviously we can now dissect which player has what disadvantage but what Player could be better and which player may be past it. But the system in total makes sense as soon as it clicks. As long as all our wide right players find stuff to stay away from the pitch, we have an issue. When we are out of sync and the distances between attackers and defense become to big, we are easy to play against. We haven't had a striker until 2 games ago... This also isn't some exotic stuff.

 

[pocco]

Who are you talking about?

And did you even read what I said? I never suggested just playing Hojlund is the answer.

You were saying he hasn't had his first choice team on the pitch yet, but in our first two games we had out first choice team on the pitch, just without Hojlund. Though after last night I'm not 100% he will prove to be first choice just yet - or maybe he shouldn't be expected to yet anyway.

 

[NZT-One]

You talk about the 'soft underbelly of United', but this is a team that broke records under Ole only a year or two ago for the amount of comebacks. So why has this changed under ETH?

You are not doing yourself any favors repeating those myths...

You are making it look like it was something Ole had in his locker when in reality, we often just came on the pitch sleeping wasting a whole half of football or sometimes even more. If you start bad and get back to your normal level, it shouldn't be used to hail the manager. He should have been asked why we are always starting so badly.

 

[Apokalips]

Arteta wanted Martinez, didn’t get. He wanted Cancelo, didn’t get. Wanted Raphinha, didn’t get. Wanted Caicedo, didn’t get. Wanted Gundogan, didn’t get. Wanted Mudryk, didn’t get. Wanted Vlahovic, didn’t get. Wanted Douglas Luiz, didn’t get.

Klopp wanted Tchouameni, didn’t get. He wanted Bellingham, didn’t get. He wanted Caicedo, didn’t get. Wanted Mount, didn’t get. Wanted Lavia, didn’t get.

Every manager go through this. It’s nothing new.

It's become a weird excuse that fans parrot. "He wasn't backed" or "he hasn't had his best XI yet"...literally no manager gets every single target and it's not always for want of trying by the club either. We look dire compared to teams that have spent far less and have even lost some of their better players so that isn't an excuse.

We need new owners, but the manager needs to be held accountable for performance levels too.

 

[astracrazy]

Just that you were saying he hasn't had his first choice team on the pitch yet. But in our first two games we had out first choice team on the pitch, just without Hojlund. Though after last night I'm not 100% he will prove to be first choice just yet - or maybe he shouldn't be expected to yet anyway.

First choice at the time out of who was available.

We had Mount but not Hojland or Amrabat. We now have Hojland and not Mount or Amrabat. My point is, lets wait and see what he does when all three are available and fit so then we can actually see what the plan is. If its still the same then the original poster has a point, but I don't think it will be. The Casemiro and Erikson duo isn't it, and I don't believe he (EtH) thinks so either.

I just think its a bit early to start calling out the team looks unbalanced and he doesn't look like he has a plan when we have yet to see our new players implemented. Onana hasn't had a great start, but we can at least see what the plan is with him.

 

[pocco]

You are not doing yourself any favors repeating this BS...

You are making it look like it was something Ole had in his locker when in reality, we often just came on the pitch sleeping wasting a whole half of football or sometimes even more. If you start bad and get back to your normal level, it shouldn't be used to hail the manager. He should have been asked why we are always starting so badly.

You're not doing yourself any favour with that argument either.

I criticised the starts, the tactics, the attitude etc under Ole. But that doesn't escape the fact that we then had the mentality to turn it around when we were behind, and we apparently no longer do. So what's changed?

 

[Luffy]

How can you not defend ETH ffs? A manager who has had to deal with more off-the-pitch madness in the club than on the pitch, A manager who has half of his 23-man first team injured or unavailable. A manager whose club is in the midst of an unknown future whether the ownership. And more and more.

I don't know, man. It's always the same ringleaders making the same defense. Until that defense becomes indefensible. You can excuse some of the naysayers, at least they base their criticisms on the lack of results. The people advocating patience were the very ones defending daft stuff like trusting Januzaj, absolving Pogba, and now Maguire. If each situation is different, why this consistency in mollycoddling.

 

[Cessna]

One does, every so often, get the sensation of going in circles since SAF stepped out of the chair. The club has a strong history and a powerful international standing. The latter possibly diminishing, as football moves on and new history is created.

The seasons move on and the club lacks stability on and off the field. This makes United's star diminish and deters many possible signings. Gakpo, Nunez, Kante, de Jong, to mention a few. Not saying that these would be excellent signings for United, but they prove a point. de Jong stands out as he flatly refused to leave Barcelona even after they wanted to ship him off and United had a great offer on the table.
During time of success and stability, players would probably be less likely to snub United so easily. Especially for another EPL club. These players also play in positions where getting regular playing time looked very likely. Yes, I know that SAF also had big players turn him down, but they often had other reasons than better prospects in a better/different PL club.

Changing managers every 2 years does not seem to be working in the long run. The different managers have different playing styles. Changing style and refitting players is not an easy task. I believe that the club can't find long term success by changing managers and hoping they can make it work. The club itself needs to have a philosophy on how United should play. Then find a manager who can make that work. Maybe that starts with Ten Hag, maybe not. Most changes in style require everyone to adapt, and that means rewiring because so much is muscle memory and on-field relations. If the whole team needs to adapt every 2 seasons, that explains the variations in performances. It also explains why player A can't "play a simple pass" or player B "can't run". Player A might just have to spend too much (every second counts) figuring out where to pass. Player B might just be unsure if this is his man, and have to get an overview.

ETH will naturally be looking for good players to fit their intended position and his style. Whenever a change in management comes along, this player might not longer be a good fit. It does then not matter if the player is world class, as small changes in structure might mean changes in responsibility and what abilities are needed.

That being said, the current sensation is a grim one. With off-pitch incidents making bigger headlines than the performances and results themselves. Perhaps this is okay, for now, seeing as even the senior members are very error-prone and the whole team seems to switch off and be at low morale.

 

[astracrazy]

I don't know, man. It's always the same ringleaders making the same defense. Until that defense becomes indefensible. You can excuse some of the naysayers, at least they base their criticisms on the lack of results. The people advocating patience were the very ones defending daft stuff like trusting Januzaj, absolving Pogba, and now Maguire. If each situation is different, why this consistency in mollycoddling.

Really?

I see it more people are either behind the manager and call out players, whilst others just seem to think a constant manager merry go round is the answer.

 

[NZT-One]

You're not doing yourself any favour with that argument either.

I criticised the starts, the tactics, the attitude etc under Ole. But that doesn't escape the fact that we then had the mentality to turn it around when we were behind, and we apparently no longer do. So what's changed?

Nothing changed at all. Look, you'd have a point if lets say we started games relatively well, even just average or even slightly below average only to concede or suck hard. If then we suddenly get into gears, improve play decent to good to very good, I'd agree with you. I could see a positive mentality which enables us to pick ourselves up and get the best of the team. But that wasn't the case. Again, we often started games very much subpar and what you consider as turning point wasn't turning "ok" to "good", it was turning "shit" to "ok". That is different thing, I am sure you can see my point. Ole rightfully was criticized for us looking so unprepared very often only to turn it back in the 2nd half. Then statman dave comes and calls it comebacks and suddenly, it is something to hail Ole for.

Nothing changed. I don't know about mentality and I wouldn't dismiss your idea that there are potentially issues, but I don't think it is fair to assume we suddenly lost one or our strength when it was never really there. It was something read into the numbers.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

I think we all agree that the team set-up is wrong. Almost 90% in the forum accept that.

So what should be the solutions?

1. Sack the manager?
2. Sign more players?
3. Change how we play?

The easiest option is Change how we play. I may not be 1% a football manager like ETH but I can give him a very simple solution. Yes now it's a bit too late, too risky, too much on the edge but give a chance to change our tide. I would

1. Drop Bruno, put Mount as a 10.
2. Integrate Amrabat as a DPM.
3. Let Casemiro be box to box midfielder.

This would eliminate 2 big issue that we have. Loss of possession and Physicality in the middle.

Already we are not scoring enough goals with Bruno in the team, so the issue of goals scoring can be mitigated by midfield pushing up in synchronization. ( This is 3rd biggest issue we have).
When we attack we attack in players not in numbers, when we press we press in players not in numbers.
When we defend a transition, we defend in players not in numbers. (Read the too many cutbacks)

How many times have we seen Bruno pressing alone, this is extremely risky because if he's bypassed then a very big hole is left in the midfield. I'm sure we have seen this alot of times.

We need a midfield of genuine midfielders. Who when we attack we attack as a group and when we fall back into position we fall back into position as a block.

This is what every other team does when they play against us.

I believe this is the easiest thing to do.
This is what I hoped ETH would have done.

Its now abit to late to do it. Why? Because of results, and benching your captain again (Read Maguire episodes).

We need as a team to move away from Bruno, it's the main cancer in the team. We need control and measured performances. We need to be compact, good in football, be able to pin opponents through sustained pressure.

When Mourinho was sacked he had lost 4 league games + drawn 4 games.

We have already lost 3 games in the league, we are on a very risky cliff. Can ETH conjure a spirited revival with Bruno in the team?

It doesn't look likely. Such a sad state we are in.

 

[Ubik]

You're not doing yourself any favour with that argument either.

I criticised the starts, the tactics, the attitude etc under Ole. But that doesn't escape the fact that we then had the mentality to turn it around when we were behind, and we apparently no longer do. So what's changed?

We came back from two goals behind just a few games ago. Happened a few times last year as well.

 

[stefan92]

One does, every so often, get the sensation of going in circles since SAF stepped out of the chair. The club has a strong history and a powerful international standing. The latter possibly diminishing, as football moves on and new history is created.

The seasons move on and the club lacks stability on and off the field. This makes United's star diminish and deters many possible signings. Gakpo, Nunez, Kante, de Jong, to mention a few. Not saying that these would be excellent signings for United, but they prove a point. de Jong stands out as he flatly refused to leave Barcelona even after they wanted to ship him off and United had a great offer on the table.
During time of success and stability, players would probably be less likely to snub United so easily. Especially for another EPL club. These players also play in positions where getting regular playing time looked very likely. Yes, I know that SAF also had big players turn him down, but they often had other reasons than better prospects in a better/different PL club.

Changing managers every 2 years does not seem to be working in the long run. The different managers have different playing styles. Changing style and refitting players is not an easy task. I believe that the club can't find long term success by changing managers and hoping they can make it work. The club itself needs to have a philosophy on how United should play. Then find a manager who can make that work. Maybe that starts with Ten Hag, maybe not. Most changes in style require everyone to adapt, and that means rewiring because so much is muscle memory and on-field relations. If the whole team needs to adapt every 2 seasons, that explains the variations in performances. It also explains why player A can't "play a simple pass" or player B "can't run". Player A might just have to spend too much (every second counts) figuring out where to pass. Player B might just be unsure if this is his man, and have to get an overview.

ETH will naturally be looking for good players to fit their intended position and his style. Whenever a change in management comes along, this player might not longer be a good fit. It does then not matter if the player is world class, as small changes in structure might mean changes in responsibility and what abilities are needed.

That being said, the current sensation is a grim one. With off-pitch incidents making bigger headlines than the performances and results themselves. Perhaps this is okay, for now, seeing as even the senior members are very error-prone and the whole team seems to switch off and be at low morale.

You do highlight some issues very well, but I disagree on the point that changing the manager every two years is a problem. It only becomes a problem at United because there they do it wrong, as you correctly recognize.

If the club has an idea how the team should play it can easily sign managers that fit this idea. By gradually changing who you sign as players and manager over the years you can also gradually change the style of play etc.

But United seems to try a total reset every time the manager changes, but isn't ready to pay the prize, which means completely terrible seasons because the rewiring as you call it will cause trouble, but it is a necessary pain if you want to go down that road.

 

[Jeffthered]

I listened to his comments after the game last night, and now I am very worried. He is blaming the players. 'You make your own luck' by being determined? And that's what we need to do...'

He nevers speaks about his tactics. Bayern were not even all that good, and they hit four? We concede goals, teams run through our midfield and we need to be more 'determined' ?

The players will pick up on this.

 

[IRN-BRUno]

Can't say that he's blameless for the start of this season but at the same time I think we have to accept that he's been very unlucky. He can't do much about a howler from Onana, poor refereeing decisions and players making basic errors. Even with the injuries, occasionally you might see that many missing a game or two but they all seem to be for several weeks or longer. That luck has to turn at some point.

This run of fixtures coming up before the City game is big for him though. We should be winning most of those and I think we probably have to, if not then he's going to be in danger.

 

[crossy1686]

How can you not defend ETH ffs? A manager who has had to deal with more off-the-pitch madness in the club than on the pitch, A manager who has half of his 23-man first team injured or unavailable. A manager whose club is in the midst of an unknown future whether the ownership. And more and more.

How does that have any bearing on us concededing 3+ goals every time we play? There are worse teams with worse players than us in the PL and they don't manage that but we do? All the off field stuff is an unwanted distraction but Onana didn't drop the ball in his own net because the Glazers haven't sold yet or because Sancho was playing FIFA last night instead of watching the game.

 

[crossy1686]

I listened to his comments after the game last night, and now I am very worried. He is blaming the players. 'You make your own luck' by being determined? And that's what we need to do...'

He nevers speaks about his tactics. Bayern were not even all that good, and they hit four? We concede goals, teams run through our midfield and we need to be more 'determined' ?

The players will pick up on this.

As much as I'm worried and have been for a while, it's an intensity issue. They won't run, they don't want to run, they try something, it doesn't work, they give up and hope someone else on the team will save them from becoming a meme. I don't know if the players don't believe in his methods or they just don't care but they aren't buying in and a lot of them look like they just want to leave.

 

[Blood Mage]

We're just not remotely good enough and that's on Ten Hag as much as the Glazers. I don't want him sacked but he has to change something.

 

[r0663664]

I think ETH is the man and I say it many times but collectively as a team, we need to sign the right players. Something is wrong behind the scene, why are we signing ETH's target? Did our scouts provide another argument for any player? We are in this hot mess because we sign ETH's target regardless of what our scout and coaches think. As a collective group, isn't there more than a couple hundred years to experience with the English league? This is laughable when we claim to be the biggest club in the world. At this rate, I can see fans switching their clubs. Clubs like Brighton who is probably run would start having more fans globally. United is seriously a joke now.

 

[THE ZOL]

For all those who make unlimited excuses for ETH, I want to ask you a very simple question.

Just remove from the equation that Ajax 2018/19 season where Frenkie De Jong demonstrated that he is truly a generational talent and was within seconds of carrying Ajax to the Champions League final.

Let us also consider that after Frenkie’s departure to FC Barcelona, Ajax’s performances in Europe have been as follows:

-2019/20: 3rd in group stage and round of 16 exit in the Europa (Getafe).
-2020/21: 3rd in group stage and quarter final exit in the Europa (AS Roma).
-2021/22: 1st in the group stage (relatively easier group but 6 wins in 6 deserves credit) and round of 16 exit (Benfica).

Has Ten Hag done enough in his career to earn the role of Manchester United manager?

I ask this because when I was excited about Ten Hag’s hiring, I preferred him to Pochettino. I felt that Ten Hag was on an upward trajectory compared to Poch. This was due to a perception that he was over-performing with Ajax and pulling rabbits out of the hat.

But looking back on it, while his European feats may have been remarkable by the standards of Ajax and an Eredivisie club, they do not seem enough to get the job at a club like United.

Granted he may have been hired for the style of play implemented at Ajax (even though Ajax have a structure and tradition that is conducive to possession football). Perhaps the thinking was that, if he had access to the resources at United, he would get us over-achieving too.

But where are the giant killings during which he displayed the tactical nous that gives a team the edge following the sale of Frenkie? Getting eliminated from Europe by Getafe and Benfica isn’t a good look.

I started having these thoughts after the 7-0 at Anfield but this torrid start to the season has solidified them. The dysfunctional environment at United is a fair excuse, but I’ve seen Big Ange at Spurs already implement a style of play with far worse players and he inherited from Conte and Mourinho!

United’s squad is blamed for Ten Hag’s failures but I question his squad building also. For example, why did he sign Hojlund? He is a good player, but given Rashford’s contract and that he is an untouchable Carrington product, it would have made sense to sign a number 9 that plays to his strengths, perhaps the same profile as Martial. Someone who drops deep, connects the play and creates space for Rashford to run in behind. Instead we signed a strikers who’s strengths are also running in behind, which subsequently exposes Rashford’s weaknesses (he doesn’t cross often and he can’t create chances). Ironically enough, the perfect profile to bring out the best of our £72m signing is someone like Sancho but he has not even had a chance to play with him.

I could go on all day about Ten Hag’s confusing tactical choices:
- Bruno on the right-wing.
-Weghorst and Antony’s unlimited chances
The 3-1-6 build-up that leaves the 1 isolated on defensive transitions.
- Playing two number 10s but without one of the full-backs inverting to solidify the middle.
-The ‘minimum width’ principle whereby wingers do not stretch the opposition defensive which then creates congestion in-front of the opponents goal and lets them stay compact.

All of these things are making me view Ten Hag as more LvG than a future SAF. For the life of me I cannot understand the logic of these choices and I would really appreciate it if somebody explained to me their pros because all I can see is cons! Please feel free to enlighten me. I am willing to change my mind upon the receiving new information.

Perhaps the Ten Hag we wanted to envisage in our heads is not the same Ten Hag we have in front of us.

 

[KevinJoh]

If you come to the point that McT lose ball and jog back than something is really rotten and it is obvious. With 13 players injured, you have to ask manager and his coaches what are you doing. And I doubt all of those are really injuries, or just finding a way to leave a mess without bad PR.

We are not playing as a team. And that is on manager. Had 2 preseasons with them, had midfield he used for the whole last season, and had 3 out of 4 players in the back that he used the whole last year (whenever Varane injured and that is often). With 6 out of 7 players who are playing together for 15 months in his system, 7th one looked like the best and only one that or is willing to run.

Honestly, I would not bet that TH will be our manager against Man City in the next game. We are playing them at the end of October and I really doubt he will be there. Not that I want him sacked, just I think he already lost a half of the dress room, and in the next week or so, with bad result against Burnley which is very possible with TH terrible away record (lost more than 50% of away games) and the fact they can pass around and play against press, I think he will lost another few. So, after that is just depends when Glazers will find alternative solution till the end of the year.

 

[the_cliff]

I think we all agree that the team set-up is wrong. Almost 90% in the forum accept that.

So what should be the solutions?

1. Sack the manager?
2. Sign more players?
3. Change how we play?

The easiest option is Change how we play. I may not be 1% a football manager like ETH but I can give him a very simple solution. Yes now it's a bit too late, too risky, too much on the edge but give a chance to change our tide. I would

1. Drop Bruno, put Mount as a 10.
2. Integrate Amrabat as a DPM.
3. Let Casemiro be box to box midfielder.

This would eliminate 2 big issue that we have. Loss of possession and Physicality in the middle.

Already we are not scoring enough goals with Bruno in the team, so the issue of goals scoring can be mitigated by midfield pushing up in synchronization. ( This is 3rd biggest issue we have).
When we attack we attack in players not in numbers, when we press we press in players not in numbers.
When we defend a transition, we defend in players not in numbers. (Read the too many cutbacks)

How many times have we seen Bruno pressing alone, this is extremely risky because if he's bypassed then a very big hole is left in the midfield. I'm sure we have seen this alot of times.

We need a midfield of genuine midfielders. Who when we attack we attack as a group and when we fall back into position we fall back into position as a block.

This is what every other team does when they play against us.

I believe this is the easiest thing to do.
This is what I hoped ETH would have done.

Its now abit to late to do it. Why? Because of results, and benching your captain again (Read Maguire episodes).

We need as a team to move away from Bruno, it's the main cancer in the team. We need control and measured performances. We need to be compact, good in football, be able to pin opponents through sustained pressure.

When Mourinho was sacked he had lost 4 league games + drawn 4 games.

We have already lost 3 games in the league, we are on a very risky cliff. Can ETH conjure a spirited revival with Bruno in the team?

It doesn't look likely. Such a sad state we are in.

Good post, although I don't agree with what you've said you have made some good points at least..,

The problem with your points 1, 2 and 3 is simply the fact that those players so far haven't been available to play at the same time. We don't know what the managers true plans are as we've had an injury crisis so we've had to put together some teams that aren't balanced at all.

I do think the manager will do what you said though when those players are available. I just think he'll put Bruno on the right instead of dropping him completely.

 

[FrantikChicken]

I listened to his comments after the game last night, and now I am very worried. He is blaming the players. 'You make your own luck' by being determined? And that's what we need to do...'

He nevers speaks about his tactics. Bayern were not even all that good, and they hit four? We concede goals, teams run through our midfield and we need to be more 'determined' ?

The players will pick up on this.

but is it the tactics? Because we usually start off quite well, and are level if not better than the opposition until ultimately someone doesn’t track their runner and we’re a goal down.

 

[flameinthesun]

Pretty sure ETH just didn't want somebody around in an undefined role. I also think he should at least should have talked to him (or send one of his coaches to do so) but lets not construct more to the story. RR was looking for a position to influence things. Being a consultant, another voice potentially questioning ETH or making his decisions more difficult, I totally get that he didn't want that. The club was the one who should have been





Those statements are extremely optimistic. I think I see your points as we didn't fall apart but re-constructing recent memory probably won't help in discussions. Acting as if this was a close match... come on mate. Bayern wasn't great yesterday but I am pretty sure, they had at least one or two gears left. They got complacent, thats why the result looks like it does.


All we did last season was the "transition shit". So stating it doesn't work is not true. It might not work as of now but there is still the chance. Our players need to hit some form. I am the last one to absolve ETH from the blame but throwing his ideas to the bin so early in the season and with as many injuries we have, wouldnt be the smartest thing to do.


Nice that you are positive but some of those things will only invite more heat onto the manager. Come on... "no Mount, no Amrabat, no Mainoo" against Arsenal. Those 3 guys have a grandtotal of how many appearances for United? Is it even 5? And Brighton themselves didn't have their A-Team ready.

Obviously everyone is looking at things differently and I would agree, the injuries should prevent us from being toooo drastic in our criticism but a source of optimism? Thats a stretch.

Doesn't change the fact Bruno, Amrabat, Case or Bruno Mount Case or Case Mount Amrabat and Bruno on the right are all options that make us defensively stronger. This team was crying out for more defensive/robust midfield options last season especially for away matches so we can't just disregard that.

We can't be screaming all last season for an upgrade on Eriksen then wonder why when the 2 players we bought to replace him are injured and have to play him away that we then lose the midfield battle. I feel sometimes fans think we have a squad as strong as City or even Arsenal. We don't. Its a better squad this season than last, but even City's squad which is easily the strongest squad ever assembled, if you take away all their left backs, Ruben Diaz, Kyle Walker, silva and kovacic, Haaland and then for the Brighton game add in taking away all their right wing options....even that city squad would struggle. And that's not excuses, that's just the reality.

 

[lex talionis]

Just a theory as I obviously don’t know any of the players personally, but I suspect all the shit associated the sale of the club and the off-pitch problems with certain players have taken a mental toll on the players.

 

[JuriM]

How does that have any bearing on us concededing 3+ goals every time we play? There are worse teams with worse players than us in the PL and they don't manage that but we do? All the off field stuff is an unwanted distraction but Onana didn't drop the ball in his own net because the Glazers haven't sold yet or because Sancho was playing FIFA last night instead of watching the game.

Because players are humans and have not been created by AI - yet. Every single of this white noise matters and it affects them, probably a lot more than you can expect. And we have to deal with this uncertainty for a very long time still. Some of you are appalling regarding human physiology and it screams.

You can be critical of small tweaks, whether we should field slower and less fit players like Eriksen & Casemiro together in a tough away fixture where we ain't dominating the field, but it comes to the injuries and the thinness of the squad.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Idgaf at this point but if eriksen starts or we see Mctominay at all eth will lose a lot of the credit he built up

 

[VP89]

Idgaf at this point but if eriksen starts or we see Mctominay at all eth will lose a lot of the credit he built up

Theres not been an established option outside of them.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

Theres not been an established option outside of them.

There's always another option. At some point you have to try something else when we consistently allow cutback goal after cutback goal because our midfielders are either too slow or too lazy. Play Hannibal. Shit fecking play gore for all I care at least we know they will put forth the care minimum of effort and be able to outsprint a fecking ref out there

 

[fallengt]

People defending ETH at all costs seem at first to have a method to their madness. But on second thought, I suppose they don't know what they are talking.

Damn, a stoic progressive manager isnt something to hope for. First time in club's history, they took modern approach and 'genius' armchair managers tell them to abandon it in 1 season.
Fecking a

ETH isnt blameless but this fanbase has such a toxic relationship with manager, they think its his fault that their cat shit on the sofa. Get a grip.

Bottom line is Theres 0 point changing manager until structure get fixed. The next manager would go through this 2 years cycle with 400m wasted and a mickey mouse trophy. Is that what youre banking for? If so, name that manager

 

[RedOrange]

This is from the Athletic:

Ten Hag’s insistence on signing Mount means that is a deal that has to work for United

Does that imply ETH has sole control over all transfer policy?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

You do highlight some issues very well, but I disagree on the point that changing the manager every two years is a problem. It only becomes a problem at United because there they do it wrong, as you correctly recognize.

If the club has an idea how the team should play it can easily sign managers that fit this idea. By gradually changing who you sign as players and manager over the years you can also gradually change the style of play etc.

But United seems to try a total reset every time the manager changes, but isn't ready to pay the prize, which means completely terrible seasons because the rewiring as you call it will cause trouble, but it is a necessary pain if you want to go down that road.

This. Real and Bayern (along with most other clubs) cycle through managers more frequently than we do without any issues, because the manager at those clubs is nothing more than a coach and isn't the foundation of the structure, dictating the club's entire strategy.

 

[Luffy]

Damn, a stoic progressive manager isnt something to hope for. First time in club's history, they took modern approach and 'genius' armchair managers tell them to abandon it in 1 season.
Fecking a

ETH isnt blameless but this fanbase has such a toxic relationship with manager, they think its his fault that their cat shit on the sofa. Get a grip.

Bottom line is Theres 0 point changing manager until structure get fixed. The next manager would go through this 2 years cycle with 400m wasted and a mickey mouse trophy. Is that what youre banking for? If so, name that manager

I don't have a toxic relationship with anyone in the club. In fact I often laugh at some of our gaffes. I just disagree with posts like yours. I don't believe that making the manager immune from criticism on a forum is reasonable.

 

[VP89]

There's always another option. At some point you have to try something else when we consistently allow cutback goal after cutback goal because our midfielders are either too slow or too lazy. Play Hannibal. Shit fecking play gore for all I care at least we know they will put forth the care minimum of effort and be able to outsprint a fecking ref out there

So easy to just whine and say play Hannibal isn't it. There is a reason hes not started. He might be ready soon enough but not to come off the bench at the Allianz arena. There's likely reasons behind that.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Damn, a stoic progressive manager isnt something to hope for. First time in club's history, they took modern approach and 'genius' armchair managers tell them to abandon it in 1 season.
Fecking a

ETH isnt blameless but this fanbase has such a toxic relationship with manager, they think its his fault that their cat shit on the sofa. Get a grip.

Bottom line is Theres 0 point changing manager until structure get fixed. The next manager would go through this 2 years cycle with 400m wasted and a mickey mouse trophy. Is that what youre banking for? If so, name that manager

Mhmm. It's our fault we listened to the manager too much and backed him in the transfer market.

Can you imagine Bayern's response, when ETH asks them to bring him Antony, Malacia, Mount, Wout?

 

[VP89]

Mhmm. It's our fault we listened to the manager too much and backed him in the transfer market.

Can you imagine Bayern's response, when ETH asks them to bring him Antony, Malacia, Mount, Wout?

Malacia was a good buy for his price and Wout was an emergency signing with just a few days to work under and a 2m budget.

Mount was pursued by Tuchel at Bayern. Bit of an own goal there.

Honestly mate try harder on the criticisms.

 

[Adamsk7]

I’m undecided. I want it to work out for him and ultimately if he does get sacked we will be on the same cycle we’ve been on for the last 10 years. Players are letting him down but he does pick those players - why bring on McTominay when Hannibal showed the desire in just the previous game? If Pellestri was playing poorly as he was last night then why make the Garnacho change and Rashford to the right so late?

The recruitment is also a worry. I understand why he went for players he knows - he’s seen managers being thrown under the bus before so this ensures that they won’t turn on him plus our recruitment and scouting is diabolical so no doubt he can’t trust them to make a correct decision however this means it’s all on him when it goes wrong. The club is so badly run k think any manager would struggle with this

 

[bond19821982]

How does that have any bearing on us concededing 3+ goals every time we play? There are worse teams with worse players than us in the PL and they don't manage that but we do? All the off field stuff is an unwanted distraction but Onana didn't drop the ball in his own net because the Glazers haven't sold yet or because Sancho was playing FIFA last night instead of watching the game.

Because other worse teams aren't expected to play like us. Just a lazy comparison.

Next argument please.

 

[Luffy]

Malacia was a good buy for his price and Wout was an emergency signing with just a few days to work under and a 2m budget.

Mount was pursued by Tuchel at Bayern. Bit of an own goal there.

Honestly mate try harder on the criticisms.

Malacia is a good buy because he came cheap.
Wout was bought with no time or money available.
Mount is good because Tuchel wanted him.

Notice that at no point you praised these as outright good buys.