Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Malone_Post said:
Is it knee jerk when we literally haven’t played well since about February? Since we won the LC our performances have dropped off a cliff. Pre-season was poor and the start of the season a disaster. At what point does this stop being knee jerk and become a genuine concern?

You’d surely have to be the the most positive person in the world to not at least be somewhat concerned?
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I am concerned. But the solution is revolution. Glazer banishment. A complete change at the very top. It is long overdue.
 
I’m concerned, after last season I was really hoping for a great start, nothing could be further from that.
However we should stick with Erik for this and next season at least, that will give him another 3 transfer windows.
Then if by the winter of 2026 we are still fecking about like this he will have to go, but hopefully by then he will have sorted things out and we will be up there at the top, if not…Just remeber how long it took Fergie to sought it out.
 
Camy89 said:
Knew I’d missed someone. The fact I can’t remember fully the conveyor belt of managers we’ve had since 2013 in itself is telling what a state we’re in.
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We've had fewer managers since 2013 than most of the top clubs we should be emulating.

Our problem isn't sacking managers, it's not having the right structure above them.
 
11101 said:
Who else does he put there? Ambrabat is injured. Fred left. VDB who cares. Even the kid Mainoo is out. We've nobody.
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Use a system that works? Hell the personnel weren't the issue today. Keep the same lineup. Use the system we've always used. Or revert back to it when it's clear that Brighton got an advantage out of the starting system (15-20 minutes in). The individuals weren't failing at their jobs today. The job they were being asked to do simply was a failing ask. The instructions were what gave Brighton the advantage, gave them acres of space.

You use width as normal and that just doesn't happen. We don't know how the game would go, but today was a very clear outclassed tactically and a failure to respond to it. Bruno wide as we've done in the past would be different with an actual CF like we had today. Or even if it's as usual, it'd still work better. As they wouldn't have 30 yards of empty field ahead of each full back to go forward uncontested. It's basic football. There is a reason why narrow formations are pretty much dead. They require very specific personnel and even then, they present huge issues which a good team like Brighton would exploit.
 
Drizzle said:
Those wanting him sacked are utterly beneath contempt. Those who are debating it even. Mind-boggling to even mention it.

This manager is in the absolute worst environment to thrive, has terrible owners and an incompetent board, and inherited a squad of players who are mostly not suited to modern football and who are almost impossible to shift due to ridiculous wages and bad reputations.

He's had to deal with Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Maguire as well as the turmoil of the club sale and bitter fan protests. Any one of those would be a big challenge for a new manager. All of them in 12 months is unprecedented.

He's not once had a top striker to lead the line in all this time, until today - and even then most of us were debating about Hojlund being a young backup to Kane at the start of the window...now he's our only real striker. We've barely seen our other signings due to fitness issues, so we cannot judge the summer transfer window yet.

He got 3rd and a pot in his first season. And we're only 5 games into season 2. And people are debating sacking him. Unbelievable. Worst fanbase in the league we are. The worst. We deserve what we get.
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Post of the day.
 
el3mel said:
That's your rock bottom standard to convince yourselves Ten Hag is doing well. Qatari won't care about this useless trophy. They'll want fast success.
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Winning our first trophy in 5 years is 'rock bottom'? Are you insane?
 
I've made my thoughts known already, but I think this is the beginning of the end for him. We won't sack him yet because we insist on waiting till the team and the fans are in the absolute gutter before we do that.

But right now I am fully convinced he's not a top level manager, tactician or man manager. He has faced Brighton numerous times and has yet to lay a glove on them tactically. Today we set up to play into their hands completely. Narrow press where we only commit a few players, easy avenue out, full backs all over the place. This is something a good tactician doesn't let happen. And his signings are all dubious for me. Basically he's just not it.

People are saying 'well we've tried so many managers, what's going to change?' Well today you had it slapping you in the face. De Zerbi changed their football from day one into what he wanted, and it is effective. They had a shoestring team out today and it was there for anybody with eyes to see. The perfect example of a manager upholding his end of the bargain and drilling, coaching, setting up a team to be effective. Better than the sum of the parts.

So my overall opinion is simply that we've just hired wrong continously. We've not managed to find somebody to click with the players that can put out 11 players minimum that are well coached in an effective/ attractive style of play.

And I hate to say it but many of our fans were sold a dud with ETH. They didn't do their homework. He is not what you thought he was and, actually, his football is fecking dire to watch. He's nowhere near Klopp and Pep, probably nowhere near managers a level below them or even more. He's made a name for himself in a one team league where the lower placed teams are dreadful.

If it were me I'd try somebody else and try to revive this team. Even if we have to keep churning managers then so be it. The absolute worst thing to do is to stick by something that's failing. I saw it coming with Ole and faced the same arguments by his acolytes. There's just no chance we'll ever hang with the top clubs with ETH.
 
hard to put blame on Erik when his midfielders don't understand that concept of defending a fecking cut back cross...ffs
 
Drizzle said:
Those wanting him sacked are utterly beneath contempt. Those who are debating it even. Mind-boggling to even mention it.

This manager is in the absolute worst environment to thrive, has terrible owners and an incompetent board, and inherited a squad of players who are mostly not suited to modern football and who are almost impossible to shift due to ridiculous wages and bad reputations.

He's had to deal with Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Maguire as well as the turmoil of the club sale and bitter fan protests. Any one of those would be a big challenge for a new manager. All of them in 12 months is unprecedented.

He's not once had a top striker to lead the line in all this time, until today - and even then most of us were debating about Hojlund being a young backup to Kane at the start of the window...now he's our only real striker. We've barely seen our other signings due to fitness issues, so we cannot judge the summer transfer window yet.

He got 3rd and a pot in his first season. And we're only 5 games into season 2. And people are debating sacking him. Unbelievable. Worst fanbase in the league we are. The worst. We deserve what we get.
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Post of the year. Well said.
 
As I said when you hired him; the real Dutch bald genius is the one working in Rotterdam.
 
el3mel said:
Considering winning a league cup is enough credit for the manager of Manchester United is rock bottom standards.
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You're digging a bigger hole. Nobody said it was our ultimate ambition, nor that it represents a legendary season. But it's legitimate silverware in a first season, and the first trophy for years. So yes, it was a success and we were happy about it. Sorry if that upsets you.
 
The problem is the players that come to the club see us as a cash cow. Once they get the money their performances dwindle because we are a big club that just does not challenge for major honours. It is so obvious that the players who show the enthusiasm are those who still have something to prove so that they can get the big money.
 
Drizzle said:
Winning our first trophy in 5 years is 'rock bottom'? Are you insane?
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That's the same poster who defended Mourinho almost until the end and has been bitter with every manager since. Can't take his posts about managerial decisions seriously.
 
sixdwarf said:
I am concerned. But the solution is revolution. Glazer banishment. A complete change at the very top. It is long overdue.
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Blaming the Glazers for everything is a cop out. Yes they’re shit owners, we know that. But ETH has to take his share of responsibility for the team. Ultimately it’s his team. He’s been given near on £400 million to spend on virtually whoever he likes, handpicking a collection of players he has either managed before or has a connection with, and 16 months down the line we still look like a team of complete individuals, with absolutely no obvious plan, tactics or style of play. That’s purely on the manager. If he can’t implement a style of play in 16 months then big questions need to be asked.
 
Drizzle said:
You're digging a bigger hole. Nobody said it was our ultimate ambition, nor that it represents a legendary season. But it's legitimate silverware in a first season, and the first trophy for years. So yes, it was a success and we were happy about it. Sorry if that upsets you.
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The poster was saying Ten Hag has more credit under his name as a United manager than other people in the club when the new owners revamp the team. I asked him what this credit is and if it's the freaking League Cup. You jumped into the conversation and said "Yes", so you basically consider winning the League Cup as enough credit under Ten Hag name to keep him in the job, which says it all about your standards for Manchester United. Either that or you have no clue what you were replying on from the start.
 
Give him time. Just look at what Arteta did at Arsenal and how bad some of the results were before last season. He transformed the club completely because he got the time to do so. There is no quick fix right now.
 
We have lost 17 games under EtH, conceding 48 and scoring 12.

When we lose, we sure do lose in style.

Bayern Munich next!

What happened to drawing games, we either win or lose.
 
what would sacking the manager achieve? The job is a poisoned chalice.

He had a good first season, and it seems 5 games into this season, while the club has had a ridiculous amount of off field problems, and an insane amount of injuries, all has been forgotten and he has become the problem.
 
United’s starting XI cost £347m, £17m was the price of Brighton’s


Blimey.
 
Drizzle said:
Those wanting him sacked are utterly beneath contempt. Those who are debating it even. Mind-boggling to even mention it.

This manager is in the absolute worst environment to thrive, has terrible owners and an incompetent board, and inherited a squad of players who are mostly not suited to modern football and who are almost impossible to shift due to ridiculous wages and bad reputations.

He's had to deal with Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Maguire as well as the turmoil of the club sale and bitter fan protests. Any one of those would be a big challenge for a new manager. All of them in 12 months is unprecedented.

He's not once had a top striker to lead the line in all this time, until today - and even then most of us were debating about Hojlund being a young backup to Kane at the start of the window...now he's our only real striker. We've barely seen our other signings due to fitness issues, so we cannot judge the summer transfer window yet.

He got 3rd and a pot in his first season. And we're only 5 games into season 2. And people are debating sacking him. Unbelievable. Worst fanbase in the league we are. The worst. We deserve what we get.
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Well said.
 
bosnian_red said:
Use a system that works? Hell the personnel weren't the issue today. Keep the same lineup. Use the system we've always used. Or revert back to it when it's clear that Brighton got an advantage out of the starting system (15-20 minutes in). The individuals weren't failing at their jobs today. The job they were being asked to do simply was a failing ask. The instructions were what gave Brighton the advantage, gave them acres of space.

You use width as normal and that just doesn't happen. We don't know how the game would go, but today was a very clear outclassed tactically and a failure to respond to it. Bruno wide as we've done in the past would be different with an actual CF like we had today. Or even if it's as usual, it'd still work better. As they wouldn't have 30 yards of empty field ahead of each full back to go forward uncontested. It's basic football. There is a reason why narrow formations are pretty much dead. They require very specific personnel and even then, they present huge issues which a good team like Brighton would exploit.
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A 100 times this. His decisions today were mind boggling and got me questioning him for the first time today. His refusal to change that system when it was clearly failing is plainly negligent. I do think he did a good job but today is the most disappointed I'm with him during his tenure. And that is a tenure which included spankings to City and Liverpool last year.
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Give him time. Just look at what Arteta did at Arsenal and how bad some of the results were before last season. He transformed the club completely because he got the time to do so. There is no quick fix right now.
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The problem is that the Glazers remaining as owners will not make it happen. Arsenal spent massively and many transfers are failures. But, they will buy new ones. For us, failed transfers are not tolerated in fact.
 
AneRu said:
This and the Arsenal one is a potent example for the situation we are in. We also need to forget about the title for a bit, we are nowhere near and we we won't be anytime soon its just bring us unnecessary pressure when we fail.

He has made a few mistakes but who hasn't however our challenge is that we have no depth to speak of to cover for any player who doesn't pull his weight. Take today, for example, Hoijlund was clearly tired but bringing on Martial effectively killed us as a threat down the centre.

We also need him to hold all the players accountable regardless of their status but I understand that it could be difficult looking at the injuries we have. Rashford should have been hauled off for killing our attacks through shit decision making, Casemiro should sit on the bench once Amrabat is back and Bruno should lose his place to Mount when he comes back. The failure by that trio to do the basics of their positions is costing us and the manager needs to throw the book at them because cuddling them is just going to get him the sack.

Going forward players who can't do the basics required at this level need shifting and the biggest culprits are the fan favorites. ETH needs to show some balls and make the big decisions.
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I agree. He seems to have favourites and sees no wrong with them. At 2-0 down we should have tried something new. New formation, new tactics, but he carried on for another 12 mins before subbing. At 85 mins he then decides to bring on 3 more subs at least 15 mins too late. Pellestri should have started I reckon and could have provided crosses for Hojlund from the right instead of shoehorning an AM there. Bruno has been ineffective that many times from the right, why does he think its going to change?
 
The Hilton said:
That's definitely an exaggeration, but even if it were accurate, none of his previous clubs are anywhere near the level of United. The pressure he'd be under here, the egos of the players he'd be coming in to manage, and how unsuited they are to play his football, combined with the lack of support or structure above him, would be orders of magnitude beyond anything he's experienced before. It would most likely be a disaster.
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We don't know that. The players recruited by ETH do not seem very suited to ETH tactics, that is the reality we have to deal with. I am pretty sure that de Zerbi would have us playing better football after 17 months than what we are served up by ETH.
 
saik said:
A 100 times this. His decisions today were mind boggling and got me questioning him for the first time today. His refusal to change that system when it was clearly failing is plainly negligent. I do think he did a good job but today is the most disappointed I'm with him during his tenure. And that is a tenure which included spankings to City and Liverpool last year.
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Yup.

Before you could point to fixture congestion, lacking basic personnel to fill a position, tough situation etc and generally his moves were logical. He adjusted to whatever players we had to get the best out of them and get wins. This was him getting outcoached, in a very simple way. That's fine to happen sometimes. But you gotta adapt. The failure to adapt to a very simple tactical issue today was hugely concerning. It's like he had a blind spot to their space out wide, and thought our couple of chances on the break were worth that. It was a horrible tactical switch and that was easily the first time I'm pointing the finger 100% at the manager and nothing at the players. They weren't given a chance to succeed today by the shit system.
 
Quite worrying he said he was considering playing in a similar way against Arsenal until Mctominay got ill. Already feels like he has lost his way and might be tough to recover.
 
wolvored said:
I agree. He seems to have favourites and sees no wrong with them. At 2-0 down we should have tried something new. New formation, new tactics, but he carried on for another 12 mins before subbing. At 85 mins he then decides to bring on 3 more subs at least 15 mins too late. Pellestri should have started I reckon and could have provided crosses for Hojlund from the right instead of shoehorning an AM there. Bruno has been ineffective that many times from the right, why does he think its going to change?
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There was no shoehorning today. If he atleast did that Brighton wouldn't have all the space in the world for their fullbacks. He chose to change the whole system to a diamond with McT and Eriksen with Bruno as the AM. Their fullbacks would have been jumping with joy today looking at the amount of space they got.
 
There are so many problems with this club, it's impossible to quantify. Some people want him to stay and some want him to leave, it's a fair argument.

What grinds my gears is fans getting on their high horse and telling fans that want him gone terrible fans. He's lost 3 out of 5 matches this season, his away record is poor for a relegation threatened team and there has been too much drama off the field.

You'd swear Solskjaer was the worst manager ever and this lad was the Messiah. There is no doubt in my mind we were better under Solskjaer. He went to City and won 3 times. This team under Ten Hag is incapable of that. I know I'll get abuse for comparing them, I don't care, the performances are no better and I think deep down everyone knows it.
 
Still couldn’t tell you a style of play. De Zebri and Ange in two months look twice the coach he is. Blaming the glazers every time we get beat is such a bad excuse. He has had money to spend and spent it on mount a player that we didn’t need, a goalie that definitely wasn’t a priority, 90m on Antony. Not sure about him anymore
 
He’s not doing a very good job. But it isn’t entirely his fault and he isn’t the biggest problem.

There is so much wrong with our club.
 
pocco said:
I've made my thoughts known already, but I think this is the beginning of the end for him. We won't sack him yet because we insist on waiting till the team and the fans are in the absolute gutter before we do that.

But right now I am fully convinced he's not a top level manager, tactician or man manager. He has faced Brighton numerous times and has yet to lay a glove on them tactically. Today we set up to play into their hands completely. Narrow press where we only commit a few players, easy avenue out, full backs all over the place. This is something a good tactician doesn't let happen. And his signings are all dubious for me. Basically he's just not it.

People are saying 'well we've tried so many managers, what's going to change?' Well today you had it slapping you in the face. De Zerbi changed their football from day one into what he wanted, and it is effective. They had a shoestring team out today and it was there for anybody with eyes to see. The perfect example of a manager upholding his end of the bargain and drilling, coaching, setting up a team to be effective. Better than the sum of the parts.

So my overall opinion is simply that we've just hired wrong continously. We've not managed to find somebody to click with the players that can put out 11 players minimum that are well coached in an effective/ attractive style of play.

And I hate to say it but many of our fans were sold a dud with ETH. They didn't do their homework. He is not what you thought he was and, actually, his football is fecking dire to watch. He's nowhere near Klopp and Pep, probably nowhere near managers a level below them or even more. He's made a name for himself in a one team league where the lower placed teams are dreadful.

If it were me I'd try somebody else and try to revive this team. Even if we have to keep churning managers then so be it. The absolute worst thing to do is to stick by something that's failing. I saw it coming with Ole and faced the same arguments by his acolytes. There's just no chance we'll ever hang with the top clubs with ETH.
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Think it is much too soon, but Ten Hag is somewhat protected by that Ajax sheen, and all that is has historically meant in terms of developing the game.

Very disappointing by how ill prepared Utd have looked coming into this season, that is the very basics for a coaching team but they have been physically behind in most games, Forest trying to sit on a 2-0 lead but still ended stronger despite being down to 10.

I think he has to rip apart how he structures the midfield, simply don't have the energy needed for the PL, and it is not as if they can hide that through possession control.
 
Malone_Post said:
Blaming the Glazers for everything is a cop out. Yes they’re shit owners, we know that. But ETH has to take his share of responsibility for the team. Ultimately it’s his team. He’s been given near on £400 million to spend on virtually whoever he likes, handpicking a collection of players he has either managed before or has a connection with, and 16 months down the line we still look like a team of complete individuals, with absolutely no obvious plan, tactics or style of play. That’s purely on the manager. If he can’t implement a style of play in 16 months then big questions need to be asked.
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Competent owners wouldn't give the manager responsibility over transfers
 
Amsterdam Devil said:
Give him time. Just look at what Arteta did at Arsenal and how bad some of the results were before last season. He transformed the club completely because he got the time to do so. There is no quick fix right now.
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Arteta spent his entire career in the PL.
 
Ole'sgunnarwin said:
There are so many problems with this club, it's impossible to quantify. Some people want him to stay and some want him to leave, it's a fair argument.

What grinds my gears is fans getting on their high horse and telling fans that want him gone terrible fans. He's lost 3 out of 5 matches this season, his away record is poor for a relegation threatened team and there has been too much drama off the field.

You'd swear Solskjaer was the worst manager ever and this lad was the Messiah. There is no doubt in my mind we were better under Solskjaer. He went to City and won 3 times. This team under Ten Hag is incapable of that. I know I'll get abuse for comparing them, I don't care, the performances are no better and I think deep down everyone knows it.
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Ole was shit IMO, but I agree with your overall point. There's a legitimate debate to be had, yet as always, many posters turn belief in the manager into an article of faith and a moral litmus test. This is the only club in the world that treats the manager as some sort of religious figure rather than just another employee.

(For the record I am not calling for ETH to be sacked)
 
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