Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[evil_geko]

Can he have a run of games with full and healthy team before making embarrassing threads like this? Some players he brought haven't even played a single game yet ffs.

 

[el3mel]

Yes.

That's your rock bottom standard to convince yourselves Ten Hag is doing well. Qatari won't care about this useless trophy. They'll want fast success.

 

[ClassAct147]

As mentioned above, he doesn't seem that bothered when we lose.
Not enough passion for me.
In the last few years I don't think we could have done much worse without a manager.
Players appear to be going out and doing their own thing and neither them or the manager show any noticeable fight or determination.
If he goes I would love to see Keane in there demanding nothing less than 100% effort.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

That covers it for me. Until they're working their ass off and fighting for 90 minutes i find it hard to be critical.

Agree, but on the flip side Ten Hag has never shown a willingness to really change tact with regards to player selection to make a statement.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I doubt the whole top to bottom would chance in one instance and he has more credit than most around him.

I would agree with this. Most likely they'd appoint their own CEO first, who would then appoint a DOF and various other specialists to run all the football operations. Once all that's in place, then the DOF would make a decision on whether ETH is the right man for what they're trying to build.

 

[DWelbz19]

’m not sure that TH is the second coming of the messiah but he’s the first manager with a possession based / high line philosophy you’ve had and it will quite obviously take time and yet more signings to get your squad comfortably versed in this new style of play.

This is one of those things said but never actually seen in practice. We averaged an extremely low line last season and were around 8th or so for possession in the league last season. This season we average 51% possession — 6th highest in the league.

His only significant tactical quotes this summer were “we want to be the best transition based team in the world” — and his key signing who we’ve given no.7 and big money too is a transition based attacking midfielder.

There is nothing significant from the 70 odd matches Erik ten Hag has managed Manchester United for that suggests he’s a possession based manager. We look just as hopeless in big games and any difficult away match as we did under managers less “highly rated” than he.

 

[Danny_]

Sack him and bring in Roy Keane as interim manager until the end of the season.

 

[Sara125]

You specifically mentioned sancho. I said ten hag inherited a bad apple.

I never insinuated he bought it into United. I am saying that sancho is a poor example becuse 1) ten hag never bought him, 2) hes a product of the previous regime and 3) ten hag is isolating him from passing on a bad influence to the dressing room, as Pep or Ferguson would have too.

Literally all you do is go around redcafe defending ETH at any opportunity. Doesn’t matter what he is being critiqued about and whether it is valid or not. I’ll let you continue…

 

[sixdwarf]

Has this thread not been banned yet??!!

 

[sixdwarf]

Sack him and bring in Roy Keane as interim manager until the end of the season.

Roy Keane and Graeme Souness. And get in Uncle Tom Cobley.

 

[GMoore23]

Obviously give him more time. An easier run of games coming up and with Amrabat/Holjund fully match fit, let's see how it goes.

However, if the shit continues to hit the fan when the going gets tough. He has to go. He's far from impressed since the League Cup win.

 

[Oranges038]

So that’s Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Rangnick and EtH that will have failed and been given the chop.

When will people realise that perhaps it’s not solely on the manager? It’s rotten from the top down. Terribly run clubs produce terrible results.

Im fed up of the knee jerk ‘Sack the manager’ mentality.

Spoiler alert, if we did that, we’d still be fecked.

Utd have basically become like AC Milan.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Did you look at Brighton's team

What's your point? They had a couple of injuries to Enciso and Estupinan but they dealt with their absences well.

 

[sixdwarf]

I’m not sure that TH is the second coming of the messiah but he’s the first manager with a possession based / high line philosophy you’ve had and it will quite obviously take time and yet more signings to get your squad comfortably versed in this new style of play.
Until that happens you’ll have your pants pulled down now and again - you should all get over it, this is how it goes and it’s a sign of progress because it’s indicative of a side going through a reset.

It seems that an awful lot of supporters on this forum can’t quite get to grips with this stunning revelation.

He isn't the messiah. He is just a very naughty boy.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Has this thread not been banned yet??!!

Why would it be banned? We're not RAWK

 

[Ubik]

Utd have basically become like AC Milan.

Was going to say this is pretty much it, but they actually won the league a couple of years ago.

 

[Revan]

This is one of those things said but never actually seen in practice. We averaged an extremely low line last season and were around 8th or so for possession in the league last season. This season we average 51% possession — 6th highest in the league.

His only significant tactical quotes this summer were “we want to be the best transition based team in the world” — and his key signing who we’ve given no.7 and big money too is a transition based attacking midfielder.

There is nothing significant from the 70 odd matches Erik ten Hag has managed Manchester United for that suggests he’s a possession based manager. We look just as hopeless in big games and any difficult away match as we did under managers less “highly rated” than he.

He talks the talk. Which is all a manager needs to do in order to fool our fanbase. Evidence be damned. He is a progressive passing manager (despite that we are average on possession) and he is a young promising attacking manager despite that he is not that young (older than Pep and just 3 years younger than Klopp) neither plays a particularly brand of attacking football.

Because the club won't pay 60 or 90m for a player unless the manager insists on it. The easier for them is to move on for other cheaper signings, but they kept on coming back for Mount again and again during the summer.

He also trained Antony before.

Antony, Lisandro, Amrabat and Onana, all played under him in Holland. Malacia and Mount played there too when he was managing there.

For comparison (correct me if I am wrong), Pep brought only Thiago from his ex-players when he joined Bayern. And no one at City. Klopp brought no ex player to Liverpool.

Not that he is anywhere as good as them, but Caf used to love comparing him with those two.

 

[mu4c_20le]

What's your point? They had a couple of injuries to Enciso and Estupinan but they dealt with their absences well.

That neither teams had their best players. They also rotated their goalie with a championship one, and started Lamptey who most people thought was dead.

 

[londonredmaniac]

Another manager to be sacked by a bunch of fecking spoiled shit cnuts (players).

Jesus.

 

[sixdwarf]

Why would it be banned? We're not RAWK

Knee jerk should we sack Ten Hag thread. I've seen much less controversial threads blocked. Probably best discussed in the Erik Ten Hag thread

 

[mikeyt]

Utd have basically become like AC Milan.

This! ETH may not be getting the results currently, but people need to realise you could get Pep in here and we'd still be shite, this is on the owners and until they are gone whoever we bring in is irrelevant. ETH is a very good coach, we've got a lot of injuries and who could have seen Sancho and Antony playing out as they have. The Glazers are and always have been the problem and they need to get the feck out.

 

[Oranges038]

Was going to say this is pretty much it, but they actually won the league a couple of years ago.

Bunch of semi retired players, mixed with a stack of "on their day players" and a little bit of quality.

The whole structure in the background is a mess.

It's a long road back to the top.

 

[DWelbz19]

So that’s Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Rangnick and EtH that will have failed and been given the chop.

When will people realise that perhaps it’s not solely on the manager? It’s rotten from the top down. Terribly run clubs produce terrible results.

Im fed up of the knee jerk ‘Sack the manager’ mentality.

Spoiler alert, if we did that, we’d still be fecked.

The club is obviously in shambles from the ownership perspective, but 5 managers in 10 years is relatively standard for “elite” clubs. All 5 of these were/aren’t good enough.

Since 2013 the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Dortmund etc. have all had as many or more managers than we have in that same period.

It’s only one club legends who have full reign (Simeone - Atletico) or City and Liverpool who have the two best managers in world football - that have had impressive longevity

 

[Old Ma Crow]

So that’s Moyes, Mourinho, Van Gaal, Rangnick and EtH that will have failed and been given the chop.

When will people realise that perhaps it’s not solely on the manager? It’s rotten from the top down. Terribly run clubs produce terrible results.

Im fed up of the knee jerk ‘Sack the manager’ mentality.

Spoiler alert, if we did that, we’d still be fecked.

Ole too, but your post makes far too much sense the way this thread is going.

 

[Escobar]

He does not stick to the things that made him a success in the first season. Really strange formations and in game decisions. Does not bench players who are in poor form. And no idea why we seem to rush it brainlessly so much when we have the ball. Zero control

 

[RedAlert27]

Way too early to even think about sacking him, should be given to at least until the end of the season unless these current performances become a permanent showing. That being said there are no excuses for him today, I see a lot of excuses on here such as the Glazers, the club structure being terrible and outdated, current off-field issues, even Arnold's handling of Greenwood. None of them should have anything to do with the poor showing today. He's the manager and HE got it wrong today. Tactics were a mess, didn't seem to be any in game management or deviation in formation/roles of players and that's all his responsibility.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

For whatever reasons, there are people in this forum that genuinely believe that ten Hag is there with Klopp, and even Pep.

It would be as absurd as thinking that Martial is there with peak Messi and Ronaldo, but it is how it is.

It's a Caf article of faith that Managers + Time = Pep / Klopp / Fergie

 

[sixdwarf]

Knee jerk time? Anyone?

 

[RedSky]

Today was a huge turning point for me, I accepted the defeats to Spurs and Arsenal because they are games you can lose and say its a tough place to go.

Brighton at home doesn't get the same respect, good side but beatable. We made them look like they were playing a practice match today.

I just don't see what the game plan is, there seems to be no pattern in play, it's get the ball to Fernandes and hope for the best all the time. Rashford seems to have been instructed to shoot on sight constantly as well.

I'm not the least bit surprised that we lost. We're just a bad football side. I say side because we are not a team.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

That neither teams had their best players. They also rotated their goalie with a championship one, and started Lamptey who most people thought was dead.

Good on 'em for rotating their keeper but that is in no way relevant to our long list of injuries and suspensions. They had 2 players unavailable for selection today. We had 7 or 8.

 

[el3mel]

Antony, Lisandro, Amrabat and Onana, all played under him in Holland. Malacia and Mount played there too when he was managing there.

For comparison (correct me if I am wrong), Pep brought only Thiago from his ex-players when he joined Bayern. And no one at City. Klopp brought no ex player to Liverpool.

Not that he is anywhere as good as them, but Caf used to love comparing him with those two.

That's our recruitment strategy. We're basically signing the players the manager managed before. Zero scouting it's hilarious.

And the worst thing is he can't even use these players he managed before properly.

 

[Camy89]

Ole too, but your post makes far too much sense the way this thread is going.

Knew I’d missed someone. The fact I can’t remember fully the conveyor belt of managers we’ve had since 2013 in itself is telling what a state we’re in.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Can he really compete against Pep?
Can he really achieve 90+ points a season?
Can he be able to construct a good team to win a 12 game Champions league season competition?

Crucially, can be able to sustain by winning over 90% of 50+ games in a season?


I dont think so. Sadly, he can't compete in EPL ecosystem.

It's incredible he doesn't see the need of game control and structure. This is his main undoing. Running around waiting for moments and transition is not sustainable.

 

[Wolfbot]

It's totally unacceptable what's going on on the pitch just now and has been for a while. Yes we have injuries but have been very poor for some time, every team misses key players but it's not an excuse for as many non-performances as we have, in fact we've had plenty of non-performances with our full team on the park.

If I saw improved performances with unlucky results I'd have more time for the manager. For me though there is nothing worse than a manager who either simply doesn't see when a game plan isn't working or wilfully chooses to ignore it. Not good enough.

 

[Malone_Post]

Knee jerk time? Anyone?

Is it knee jerk when we literally haven’t played well since about February? Since we won the LC our performances have dropped off a cliff. Pre-season was poor and the start of the season a disaster. At what point does this stop being knee jerk and become a genuine concern?

You’d surely have to be the the most positive person in the world to not at least be somewhat concerned?

 

[Sara125]

I don’t want us to become a club that just sack everyone (meh tbh that ship has long sailed) but I reckon he will be, maybe not this early, because in my opinion he hasn’t done anything or brought anything unique to the table that his predecessors hadn’t (in fact he looks to be heading the same trajectory- wasted money. Wasted players. Nonsensical systems and late/nonsensical subs game in game out. Fans losing faith and beginning to openly boo etc.) and they all got sacked so…

 

[VP89]

Literally all you do is go around redcafe defending ETH at any opportunity. Doesn’t matter what he is being critiqued about and whether it is valid or not. I’ll let you continue…

I'm happy to critique Ten Hag, like giving valid criticism of his first XI selection and atrocious subs.

But the lazy bullshit you spat out has been rightly called out.

 

[sixdwarf]

We’ve all seen this story before. And we know exactly how it ends.

Rightly or wrongly, this is the beginning of the end.

The only glimmer of hope is if the Glazers think enough is enough and finally sell before we sink any lower on the pitch and in terms of our value.

 

[Pscholes18]

Those wanting him sacked are utterly beneath contempt. Those who are debating it even. Mind-boggling to even mention it.

This manager is in the absolute worst environment to thrive, has terrible owners and an incompetent board, and inherited a squad of players who are mostly not suited to modern football and who are almost impossible to shift due to ridiculous wages and bad reputations.

He's had to deal with Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, Maguire as well as the turmoil of the club sale and bitter fan protests. Any one of those would be a big challenge for a new manager. All of them in 12 months is unprecedented.

He's not once had a top striker to lead the line in all this time, until today - and even then most of us were debating about Hojlund being a young backup to Kane at the start of the window...now he's our only real striker. We've barely seen our other signings due to fitness issues, so we cannot judge the summer transfer window yet.

He got 3rd and a pot in his first season. And we're only 5 games into season 2. And people are debating sacking him. Unbelievable. Worst fanbase in the league we are. The worst. We deserve what we get.

Spot fecking on.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

The club is obviously in shambles from the ownership perspective, but 5 managers in 10 years is relatively standard for “elite” clubs. All 5 of these were/aren’t good enough.

Since 2013 the likes of Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, Inter, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Dortmund etc. have all had as many or more managers than we have in that same period.

It’s only one club legends who have full reign (Simeone - Atletico) or City and Liverpool who have the two best managers in world football - that have had impressive longevity

This. It's completely normal to have a manager for a season or two, and then replace him when results start to go south.

Of course, when you have our manager-driven structure that relies on the manager to de facto lead all football operations, switching managers becomes significantly more complicated because it always results in a massive rebuild.