The club have backed EtH but we're still a long long way off. He won't get three full seasons here. Were heading towards the inevitable collapse in results, not now, but my guess would be towards the end of this season or start of next season (following a summer window where he won't get backed to the same extent). Rinse and repeat.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Ok mate carry on
Well golly gee how did we not win a treble
I can’t tell if this post is serious
How I wish we could switch places with Brighton last season
I edited my post to add a further point. Does not having the perfect CF really matter? Look at the examples I've given. I don't think he lack of a CF makes a difference. He had Weghorst who is his archetypal target man that he likes (and could press, but that's not really a main aspect of the tactics he's shown here), he was just crap at putting the ball in the net. But other teams have had worse and played better football.
Who are Spurs playing up top? Son and Richarlison? Yet I don't think Spurs fans are in any doubt about their style of play after only 4 games. De Zerbi inherited somebody else's squad and put his print on it instantly. There actually are managers that do that, we just seen to have to go through the whole rebuild process every time we get a new manager. And fans buy into it every time.
Well, yes - that kind of goes with the territory.
However, I would add that there is a difference between trying to remain positive about a manager at a reasonably early stage (which this still is) - and the "cult of the manager" concept suggested by some. Those are not one and the same thing.
"Give the guy a break" is not synonymous with "the guy is a genius, shut up".
I mean, for some people it clearly is - but it isn't generally so.
How I wish we could switch places with Brighton last season
It's about style of play, this discussion. I bet if De Zerbi had some of our players or the same level of backing, he'd be challenging.
You don't have to be elitist to see something simple that is right in front of you, but I guess some people can't even do that.
Point is, he had CFs. Better than those at other clubs who are playing fantastic football. That excuse doesn't really wash with me. The style of play should be apparent from day one, then you improve personnel to get more from it. That's what every top manager in this country has done. Klopp didn't waver from Gegenpress, Pep set up and tried to implement tiki taka from day one. De Zerbi the same. Ange Postecoglu the same.
He’s now seen by the media and rival fans as a bad manager. Narratives and spin are important so it’s very annoying we’ve started the season this way.
Have to agree with this. The 4-0 at Brentford shouldn’t have scared him the way it did. Was a freak.
Ah, yes.
The new trinity. Surprised statues aren't up outside Old Trafford already, must be a matter of days now.
Come on, mate.
It clearly is not unreasonable to wait and see if adding an actual, top class CF to the mix will make ETH's system look considerably better on a consistent basis.
(Whether our Danish friend can be that CF is another question altogether - but the point is clear enough: ETH hasn't had one, nowhere near, so far).
Even at Ajax, they apparently didn't like ETHs style of play but eventually they started winning games and the fans backed off. But he stuck with it from the start from what I've read. So I'm questioning whether we actually have been seeing exactly what he wants, for the most part? Maybe everyday it will be more effective and we'll compete with any team put in front of us playing like this. I just have my doubts about it, that's all.
You add top class players to most teams and they'll look better. That doesn't always vindicate the manager. If and when we start consistently winning or challenging for major trophies, then you can say that the manager is holding his side of the bargain. Because he is being fully backed and this is what should be expected given our spending. I just think we should look a lot more dangerous to top and more solid at the back already. I'd be lying if I didn't say that it does annoy me a bit to see the football and plaudits that the likes of Ange and De Zerbi have got in lesser timescales.
We just always have to go through this same song and dance about needing more players, needing more time etc. Then somebody comes along at another club and just instantly makes their mark. Howe is another at Newcastle, miles better than us in terms of style of play etc and look at the squad he inherited. He changed it from the get go, they were terrible before he arrived.
Its just frustrating that we have to go through these debates every single time, I dream of the day we get a manager that gets us playing amazing football and we can all come here to throw superlatives at how great we are.
I think his point was more that you can be good without a striker rather than we had top strikers. He actually later clarified it by saying that City won EPL without a striker (which is a true considering that their only striker Gabriel Jesus was injured most of the season) and that Brighton is playing good with Welbeck up front.
What a pathetic fan base, he wins the first trophy in 6 years, gets Champions league in his first season and still come aren't happy.
Rome wasn't built in a day, Sir Alex was given plenty of time, as was Klopp at Liverpool.
The way the fans are gearing up it's looking like the beginning of the end already. I'm sick to the teeth of it, give the man time he will get it right I'm sure of it. If not its switch again and start again, we don't want that do we.
Rome wasn't built in a day, Sir Alex was given plenty of time, as was Klopp at Liverpool.
The way the fans are gearing up it's looking like the beginning of the end already. I'm sick to the teeth of it, give the man time he will get it right I'm sure of it. If not its switch again and start again, we don't want that do we.
Would he bollocks, the expectation at Brighton compared to United is night and day, also let's see how they cope when the games are coming thick and fast they are playing 2 or 3 times a week
I don't think you can just make a comparison between teams in a vacuum. There have been a lot of threads about how the squad is below average in height, strength, physicality, etc... thus it makes maybe some sense that EtH likes himself a big striker to bring presence and compensate for making the choice of ball skills over athleticism elsewhere ? I'm guessing here.
Ronaldo wasn't working, Martial is shot and Weghorst was perhaps the best of all 3 in actually contributing something.
There we are, always at step 0 of building a functinal team. You are right with this comment of course, it's just not an excuse to play so shite football IMO. I would imagine we should see some improvement by now and I am not sure if it's there compared to day one. Still seems like everything happens once every game, but there is no clear and effective pattern if you ask me.
Wan Bissaka did a good job to prevent crosses and was not really beaten by Martinelli, but Martinelli did a great job pushing our back 4 deeper and effectively squeezing our team. It was a fascinating battle also from tactical point of view tbh. But it's irrelevant to the point I was making in previous post.
Not at all, criticism in the right context is good and no manager is beyond that. However anyone calling for his sacking after 4 games is absolutely insane, you can have criticism in the style of play if you want yet its been 4 games, 3 of which we've had no striker, 1 of which we started the same players from last year bar Onana, throw in an insane defensive crisis on top of that and 2 away games in London. It is what it is. Not a spectacular start, not a disastrous start. There is nothing to tell from just 4 games, with barely any of our main signings playing and at no point being able to field our best 11.
Yeah everyone said that to me about Arteta too. They might struggle with the amount of games, doesn't mean anything in terms of style of play. They don't spend like we do and don't have as deep a squad. Add £500m worth of players to Brighton and they'd be a force in my opinion.
Day 1 being Brighton last season. You see no improvement?
That is a myth frequently repeated on this board. We peaked when Eriksen was not available. The problem was that we needed a body and that's why Sabitzer came in (but was not really effective).
Fred did very well in some of those games when he was needed to step up. Ten Hag just didn't fancy him.
Our biggest improvement is from getting the better players, especially defensive players in Martinez and Casemiro, plus Onana this year. But our buildup / offensive play I don't see any improvement over how we played once we settled down after first few games last season. Do you? I don't think this Brighton game should be a baseline anyway.
We had no striker because he splashed 90m on Antony and 80m on Casemiro. Not like the club didn't offer him enough money to sign one. He's the one who chose Antony to be his offensive signing and eat most of the budget for his sake.
That's the issue when discussing transfers anyway. It's not the club's fault. There's plenty of money but Ten Hag has wasted most of it.
It's so hard to know which direction this season is going to take, so far the negative momentum has been building at quite a pace and it feels like if we don't do something to start building in the other direction it could be a painful watch. I do feel like we've got progressively better over these opening 4 games and I'm hopeful something will click soon that sees the team start to build confidence and then if we start getting other little positives to add to it, like new signings having an impact, youngsters like Mainoo and Amad getting meaningful game time, injured players coming back, maybe some news on the club sale etc etc it will just keep snowballing into a strong season but it does feel like it could go either way at the moment.
The concerning thing is Ten Hag is buying into the delusions that we are playing well (we are absolutely not). I guess if the expectation is to finish in the top 6, that’s reasonable but otherwise not. Also what has changed in terms of style of football since Ole? Seems like he loves the same old counter-attacking style football away from home. After spending so much money and all on his transfers, questions do need to be asked if results and performances don’t improve.
We did have a striker, fella called Ronaldo
After the Brighton game at home (that we should strive to win in a convincing fashion) and a possibly painful game against football's BMW in the UCL, the schedule seems a bit easier for a while. Hopefully we'll build momentum and have a much better idea by December of where it is going.
Our biggest improvement was from getting the better players…at this point you’re moaning for the sake of it and it’s a waste of time debating you.
Who was 36 years old and there was no way he could have played every game in the season. When we said that last summer people claimed we had Martial then it was going to be fine. The fault was depending on Martial to start with. We should have saved Antony money and paid for a long term striker.
That was just slightly better than useless. Why I wonder did we play better without him in the team?
He delivered what was expected of him last season. This season its been 4 games and we have massive injury crisis right now. You people need to chill out.
I am critical of him with the things that happen on the pitch because there are various things I don't like. I didn't enjoy our performance yesterday. I felt it was too slow, I didn't think it was penetrating enough, and I have an issue with the fitness and technical ability of our players.
However, at the same time, I also feel a lot of sympathy for him. We are surrounded by dickheads. We've got dickheads above us with our owners who can't sell/won't sell our club, dickheads in the past/present who are buying players for obscene amounts of money on overinflated wages, dickheads who then can't move players on because of the previous dickheads, and we've also got several other dickheads who have infiltrated our squad - dickheads who can't behave themselves off the pitch, and other dickheads who aren't helping themselves on it.
It's hard to succeed in a sea of shit without a paddle.
However, at the same time, I also feel a lot of sympathy for him. We are surrounded by dickheads. We've got dickheads above us with our owners who can't sell/won't sell our club, dickheads in the past/present who are buying players for obscene amounts of money on overinflated wages, dickheads who then can't move players on because of the previous dickheads, and we've also got several other dickheads who have infiltrated our squad - dickheads who can't behave themselves off the pitch, and other dickheads who aren't helping themselves on it.
It's hard to succeed in a sea of shit without a paddle.
He didnt have a fit Ronaldo. He missed the whole of pre season and then came back to start a war against the managers pressing game.
Martial was injured
And Weghorst was complete trash.
A CF is important in our setup
Indeed. I am not, nor do I profess to be, a footballing genius. I suspect there are loads of people on here who have a better understanding of tactics than I do. I also think there's a load of people who pretend (or perhaps think) they do and in reality, it just amounts to blind faith that it'll magically "click".
I follow my local National League side and go to most home games. We sacked a manager and appointed a new one on 23rd February this year. He brought in a few players on loan. Last manager played long ball. The new manager likes to play more attractive football. The change in style was obvious within a few weeks. We improved but still went down. This season, there's a clear system and shape in place and it's obvious when you watch them. Players seem to know exactly what they have to do.
I agree with a lot of that to be fair.
The bolded point is spot on. That's what annoys me the most. Players who are supposed to be top class with either an inability, or unwillingness to inject any pace into the game.
The one thing he won't be given is time. In fact, as with all his predecessors, if he fails to get in the CL this season I can see a situation where they give him the sack and get Poch in (who will have already been sacked by Boehly).
Without one that can occupy defenders in a vertical system that requires quick passes between the lines, it makes it very difficult for the inside forwards to find space.
That will be a stupid decision from us, well, typical United.
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