Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I will say it again.
We do it at home, we did it against Spurs first half, we did it against Forrest.

When the pressure gets tough we already know many of these players revert to type. ETH mentioned that he was unhappy that the team did not play passes forward when the opportunity arose and the fact things got better when Hojlund and Garnacho came into the game says a lot.
Remember Garnacho started the season, ETH wants him in the 11 for a reason, against Wolves we got him the ball consistently isolated one on one with their fullback, he just had a poor game

It doesn't help that away from home against good sides, our main creative midfielder always goes missing
But that is a description of mid table club. We do it at home and against poor opponents. Again, we only win games which we are expected to win anyway. That was the case last season, remains to be seen if we are actually making any progress now. At the moment we're struggling with injuries and will hopefully restart the season with Amrabat and Hojlund, so I'm fairly optimistic still.

I agree about Garnacho vs Wolves, he was just poor but he did see a lot of the ball. The problem was our forwards were very poor that game, but THE problem was our midfield was having more holes than a Swiss cheese and we were constantly overrun on defensive transitions. Leaving Casemiro alone to chase runners is a bad tactic irrespectively of his current form at this point of his career.
 
I will say it again.
We do it at home, we did it against Spurs first half, we did it against Forrest.

When the pressure gets tough we already know many of these players revert to type. ETH mentioned that he was unhappy that the team did not play passes forward when the opportunity arose and the fact things got better when Hojlund and Garnacho came into the game says a lot.
Remember Garnacho started the season, ETH wants him in the 11 for a reason, against Wolves we got him the ball consistently isolated one on one with their fullback, he just had a poor game

It doesn't help that away from home against good sides, our main creative midfielder always goes missing

And we do 'what' at home exactly? And don't start making ambiguos comments like 'press' and 'more movement' or quote stats/data etc. What is it that we do at home as an attacking unit? Who do we try and get the ball to? How? Do we move the ball quickly? Do we isolate any players, regularly isolate any of our attackers? Do we have full-backs (think James, Trippier and Roberston) providing crosses or real creative, consistent creative opportunities? Who takes our set-pieces, free-kicks corners etc.. (think Ward-Prowse) for example?

I see no strategy as an attacking team. None. For example, AWB drifts forward occasionally, completly unsure whether he should be there or not! You can see it!

It's just some (some) very good players trying to find a way, supported by some average players. I see no methodology, have no real expectation, just a hope that one of our better players will 'do' something'.

And that's a coaching issue.
 
Our shit away results against top half teams continues. Fans will be or have already started turning on ETH.
For once, I am looking forward to the break, and it’s just 4 weeks into the season.
But then we come up against Brighton who were the only side to beat us at Old Trafford last season then followed by Bayern Munich. The atmosphere around the club is going to be dreadful if we lose both.
 
Aye. This brainless approach by the club combined by the ability of a large part of the fanbase instantly creating the cult of the manager feeding on each other and we are in this sad situation.

I do not think this changes without getting new owners, and hopefully they don't give a shit that most of the fanbase equates supporting the manager with supporting the club.

I don't necessarily agree the ten Hag support is cultish but to stay within your argument because there's definitely a tendency to let the manager fill the void : All things equal otherwise, changing coach is not going to fix this.

This is the story of the club since after Moyes : We tried a legendary coach to fill those shoes, then a coach that was considered maybe the best one in a not so distant past (at that point) then the internal option. Maybe there's someone out there who is a potential Alex Ferguson reborn for modern times but we have better chances topping City on a fluke season than finding that proverbial needle.

We know that we need to change how the management above the skipper works and probably the back office as well. If MU is sold there should be changes there and hopefully progress within 6 months / a year. It's honestly a little pointless to change the manager until then unless the squad spirals into truly shocking results (midtable) and he lost the locker room.
 
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I don't get this at all. Why would a side waste energy "pressing" when all we're doing is passing the ball around the back four before giving it to Onana to punt long towards Rashford? They know they'll get it back and the speed of their transition into attack meant they looked like hurting us when they did.

Hojlund was a positive yesterday and if that's anything to go by he'll do well. At least he gives a focal point to the attack.

They did waste a lot of energy trying to press us for the first 35-40 minutes. Go back and watch it again. They didn't lay a glove on us after the 1-1 until the late Saka chance, then nothing more until the spawny deflected goal form a corner that should have been a goal kick. Rice's shot wasn't even on target

Amazing how the final score influences the way people interpret a game post hoc.
 
FFP is being limited because of previous spending and reduced revenues. Not really all to do with ETH, he's spent the money he had to on improving the first 11 to remove the least technically capable players.

I don't get this idea that style has to be so clear and defined at this stage. He's still bedding in new players and new ideas, he's still trying to remove bad habits out of other players. I think I can see what he's trying to do, but he's being hampered by the injuries and the quality in depth at his disposal.

The Antony and Mount money could have been better spent, in my opinion, if he has issues with depth of the squad. Had we not got Amrabat the midfield would have been in a worse state than it was last year and we were left scrabbling around to get that done relying on the player to force it through. We're incredibly light at centre-back which is another position, along with the keeper, I would have thought he'd have prioritised.

After a year plus, we should start to see some kind of system. Other managers can impress that in weeks or months to do so. If these players can't do what he wants them to do, what's the solution? Top managers adapt to what they have and get the best out of the players.

I accept that he's had a tough job, but he must have known that when he took it on.
 
And we do 'what' at home exactly? And don't start making ambiguos comments like 'press' and 'more movement' or quote stats/data etc. What is it that we do at home as an attacking unit? Who do we try and get the ball to? How? Do we move the quickly? Do we isolate any players, regularly isolate any of our attackers? Do we have full-backs (think James, Trippier and Roberston) providing crosses or real creative, consistent creative opportunities? Who takes our set-pieces, free-kicks corners etc.. (think Ward-Prowse) for example?

I see no strategy as an attacking team. None. AWB drifts forward occasionally, completly unsure whether he should be there or not. It's just some (some) very good players trying to find a way, supported by some average players. I see no methodology, have no real expectation, just a hope that one of our better players will 'do' something'.

And that's a coaching issue.

I literally said we isolated Garnacho against his full back multiple times against Wolves, it was clearly the plan. We also go the ball into Rashfords feet a lot in the middle of the park but he was absolutely trash in the CF position and could not hold it.
Against Spurs we had the 2 vs 1 with Shaw and Rashford against Porro multiple times, whilst also getting the ball to Fernandes in between the defence and the midfield.

Against Forrest we used all 3 patterns.

The important thing to realise is that this season especially, the plan has been impacted by the lack of CF
 
He's dealing with a lot of crap and has dealt with it well so far in my opinion. Literally Ronaldo revolted against the club, he shipped out a load of big contracts and ran down DDG first season and it was a successful season on the pitch.

The 'cleaning house' is not complete yet though, as much as we want Sancho to be good - he needs to go, he tried to sell Maguire but the player blocked the move, we have been trying to shift guys like Donny and other squad players and there is a ruthlessness about our sales now that was not there before (Henderson, Elanga, Fred all decent enough fees & lots of youth players out for small fees + clauses).

Now we need to see it on the pitch and there were signs against Arsenal that the possession style football is coming...playing out from the back I thought was good, player profile wise whilst I know there are concerns about some signings they generally share the common theme of being much less careless in possession than the players he inherited, Rasmus looks like he adds much needed pace and physicality up front and Amrabat is a unit as well.

He is in his second season, the expectations have risen and we need to see the play style really evolve this season.
 
Still handcuffed by previous regimes
Martial
Sancho
Maguire
All on contracts that they won’t want to get rid of
Also they have it comfy
I think we’ll see a massive improvement when he has the players available he wants to play
Its also only 4 games
10 games in is more a fair reflection of how a season will pan out
 
I literally said we isolated Garnacho against his full back multiple times against Wolves, it was clearly the plan. We also go the ball into Rashfords feet a lot in the middle of the park but he was absolutely trash in the CF position and could not hold it.
Against Spurs we had the 2 vs 1 with Shaw and Rashford against Porro multiple times, whilst also getting the ball to Fernandes in between the defence and the midfield.

Against Forrest we used all 3 patterns.

The important thing to realise is that this season especially, the plan has been impacted by the lack of CF

very well said
You could see the change in confidence when Hojund came on
 
They did waste a lot of energy trying to press us for the first 35-40 minutes. Go back and watch it again. They didn't lay a glove on us after the 1-1 until the late Saka chance, then nothing more until the spawny deflected goal form a corner that should have been a goal kick. Rice's shot wasn't even on target

Amazing how the final score influences the way people interpret a game post hoc.

Yes - and realised it was waste of time because pre-Rashford's goal we had no threat.

They looked far more dangerous in attack for most periods in the game. The fact that some fans are taking a significant positive from the fact (probably accurately) that we looked more solid than we have previously this season shows how far standards have dropped.

Arsenal weren't particularly good yesterday but still won the game. Rashford's goal was individual brilliance and was the only attacking first half highlight. We looked better in the second half with less of the ball but until Garnacho came on and injected a bit of pace and direct play, we didn't pose a threat.
 
I don't necessarily agree the ten Hag support is cultish but to stay within your argument because there's definitely a tendency to let the manager fill the void : All things equal otherwise, changing coach is not going to fix this.

This is the story of the club since after Moyes : We tried a legendary coach to fill those shoes, then a coach that was considered maybe the best one in a not so distant past (at that point) then the internal option. Maybe there's someone out there which is a potential Alex Ferguson reborn for modern times but we have better chances topping City on a fluke season than finding that proverbial needle.

We know that we need to change how the management above the skipper works and probably the back office as well. If MU is sold there should be changes there and hopefully progress within 6 months / a year. It's honestly a little pointless to change the manager until then unless the squad spirals into truly shocking results (midtable) and he lost the locker room.
Honestly, every argument I have heard about EtH to me looks like a deja vu for the previous managers. That they are geniuses, that it will take time but ultimately they would win us big titles, that no one else would do better with this group of players, that they just need to get rid of the deadwood and continue signing good players, that the style is progressive. And then ultimately they got sacked for being shit, their style of football suddenly became ‘shit on a stick’, and that their transfers suddenly become deadwood. I do not see much difference this time around, I think in 18 months Antony, Malacia, Eriksen and Mount will be firmly in the deadwood category, and probably Martinez too if the new manager decides that he doesn’t want a bottom 10 percentile player when it comes to aerial duels in his team. Add to it Casemiro will be 32-33 and need replacing and the ‘400m well-spent money’ will essentially be Onana and probably Hojlund. Figuratively speaking, I think it is a cult where people defend the manager at all costs, and mistake supporting the club with supporting the manager. We should support the club, and keep accountable the employees of the club, be them high managers like Murtough or mid-level managers like ETH.

But with the main point I agree and have been screaming about it since the Mourinho days. We need a football structure in place, a DoF who is the manager’s boss, not manager’s bitch. We need people knowledgeable around him. The manager should be a head coach, a mid-level manager whose job is training the players, selecting them to play and doing the tactics. The recruiting should be not related to the manager, or at most he should have a minimal input to that. Essentially, we need to build a machine where the manager is an important, but small part of it. An easily replaceable part.
 
The Antony and Mount money could have been better spent, in my opinion, if he has issues with depth of the squad. Had we not got Amrabat the midfield would have been in a worse state than it was last year and we were left scrabbling around to get that done relying on the player to force it through. We're incredibly light at centre-back which is another position, along with the keeper, I would have thought he'd have prioritised.

After a year plus, we should start to see some kind of system. Other managers can impress that in weeks or months to do so. If these players can't do what he wants them to do, what's the solution? Top managers adapt to what they have and get the best out of the players.

I accept that he's had a tough job, but he must have known that when he took it on.

We are seeing it being attempted. The build up phases out from the back, the recycling of possesion the 2341 or 3241 setup in attacking phases and AWB pushing inside in during attacks. These are just the most noticeable aspects. Once Hojlund is the focal point and the midfield is fully up to speed I am sure these things will be more apparent.

On the whole. He's basically working with a new team and getting them to gel, now half of them are injured, so it's going to take a bit longer than before. Because they're coming into a developing setup, it's not like City or Liverpool where the structure is already in place and half the team are already up to speed, so it's easier for new players to slot in. If there's still the same shit come Dec/Jan then I might start asking questions. But we need to be patient and let his players gel into his way of playing.

As for that second bolded bit, some managers do. Most are short term managers who can do this for a period of 12-18 months, some achieve short term success and then the players quickly tire of it and they leave a mess behind until the next fire fighter is found. Look at Conte, Tuchel, Jose etc etc etc.
 
That was your problem right there. Passing the ball around in your own half is never going to hurt teams. It was clear that once the ball went forward your players didn't seem to know what to do next. You had more passes than us at half time but most were in your own half and were backwards or sideways. I read somewhere Onana was your 4th highest passer.

And yet we did hurt you, twice (albeit one disallowed for a micro offside). Plus we had Rashford nearly making it 2-1 early in the second half from the rebound, Hojlund arguably fouled in the box, Rashford skilling past your defence at the byeline and making a mess of the cutback, the 3 on 2 break again with bad decision making. We had chances and we threatened you despite this 'you don't hurt teams playing like that' thing.

I counted Arsenal with the Havertz scuff, and the goal in the first half. Then the very good Saka chance. A fortunate deflected second goal and a late 3rd that happens only because we had to go gung-ho in the last seconds of the match. it was hardly backs to the wall stuff for us like it was at yours last season.

Arsenal are a good side. I don't think they are good enough to win the league - but then again, nobody but City are these days.
 
Might be another shitstorm on the horizon with Antony apparently.
I don’t understand if there is an investigation ongoing how a newspaper is allowed to publish witness testimony and a picture that I’d imagine would be used as evidence. I think there was a live television interview too. You’d think that would prejudice a jury.
 
It's not an excuse because I blame ten Hag, and have done since his first transfer window. He bought the wrong players for the most part.

Outside of that big criticism I have of him, I see potential in his coaching.

Antony & Mount were shocking decisions,so who do people that have lost faith already feel would be a good fit. I think the difficult bit is finding someone who can operate despite being hamstrung by leeches. I will openly admit I expected to see a style of play by now and it hasn't happened.

I realise I am gonna get absolutely hammered for this and rightfully so but maybe if we don't win Carabao or get Champions League then those leeches would have took Jassim/Ratcliffe's offer
 
I literally said we isolated Garnacho against his full back multiple times against Wolves, it was clearly the plan. We also go the ball into Rashfords feet a lot in the middle of the park but he was absolutely trash in the CF position and could not hold it.
Against Spurs we had the 2 vs 1 with Shaw and Rashford against Porro multiple times, whilst also getting the ball to Fernandes in between the defence and the midfield.

Against Forrest we used all 3 patterns.

The important thing to realise is that this season especially, the plan has been impacted by the lack of CF

You're missing the point (rather than my point..), and that is you have specified moments... not a style of play. Getting the ball into the feet of a forward is hardly a unique development in the game of football. A 2vs 1 is not an attacking strategy.. it's something that may happen. Do we consistently isolate our wide players? Do we consistently, with a degree of expectation and certainty, see Shaw and Rashford as a 2 vs 1 against opposing defences? Because I rarely see it... may happen on an off-chance, but I do not see that.

Liverpool change players, City change players, De Zerbi changes players, even Thomas Frank changes players, yet I know exactly how I expect to see these teams attack. I can see a shape, a consistency in their approach, as a unit.

I think we are still to reach that point. This also relates to why we start games some cautiously in my opinion, it's because we do not know what to actually do. Just my observations... however it simply must, must get better and I trust ETH to recognise and keep working on this. Because without any attacking strategy, he's had it.
 
You're missing the point (rather than my point..), and that is you have specified moments... not a style of play. Getting the ball into the feet of a forward is hardly a unique development in the game of football. A 2vs 1 is not an attacking strategy.. it's something that may happen. Do we consistently isolate our wide players? Do we consistently, with a degree of expectation and certainty, see Shaw and Rashford as a 2 vs 1 against opposing defences? Because I rarely see it... may happen on an off-chance, but I do not see that.

Liverpool change players, City change players, De Zerbi changes players, even Thomas Frank changes players, yet I know exactly how I expect to see these teams attack. I can see a shape, a consistency in their approach, as a unit.

I think we are still to reach that point. This also relates to why we start games some cautiously in my opinion, it's because we do not know what to actually do. Just my observations... however it simply must, must get better and I trust ETH to recognise and keep working on this. Because without any attacking strategy, he's had it.

Yes we consistently did it against Wolves and Forrest and we used a different tact vs Spurs.
You choose it ignore what is being said, but it was a consistent thing we did in those games, they were not specified moments.
 
Just my opinion, but I think yesterday is a watershed moment for us in terms of being a team who can have more control over the game. We kept the ball so well at the back against their press that they gave up trying to press us. This has never happened to us in the age of high pressing football.

The scoreline always dictates the narrative unfortunately "united destroyed by incredible Arsenal etc etc" but I think the performance yesterday was far better than in the 3-2 loss there last season.

Hojlund is going to be transformative in this team. Look at the way he occupied the Arsenal defence in his cameo. They were terrified of him IMO

What's the achievement in this ? How did this help the team in any significant way ? We kept passing the ball between the keeper and defenders in our own half, congratulations I guess ?
 
The last bit just isn't true, and it's such a tired argument. There is clearly a style that EtH is trying to implement, it's just taking time as he's been pragmatic enough to understand he couldn't make the switch immediately and expect to be successful, especially seeing how badly we panicked when trying to play some football in his first couple of matches with us.

This season has seen an improvement, we're orders of magnitude more comfortable with the ball at the back thanks to Onana, and the first half against Spurs showed pretty well what he's aiming for, but old habits die hard and we still have plenty of players for whom sitting deep and countering is muscle memory, and so are still learning where they need to be, how to press as part of a unit, etc.

What's that style ? Point us to it, as we're way too blind to recognize it, sorry.

All I'm seeing is the same godawful football we have been watching for years, and by the way, LVG's United to have a lot of possession at the back too. Why are we acting like this is a completely new thing at United ? And we were crap under LVG.
 
I disagree.

Onana improves us because he can pass the ball, but the amount of touches he currently has highlights how slow the build up play is. Lots of the ball, passed between the back four and into/back from midfield with opposition teams content to let us have it when we're not hurting them. Yesterday highlights that - first half 57% possession, three shots on goal to Arsenal's 9. Hardly any possession in the final third. Under Van Gaal we had a lot of the ball, did nothing with it.

He's been working with these players for over a year. Most of them look no better or accustomed to what he supposedly wants to do. If a high press is what he wants he hasn't got the players for that - certainly in midfield yesterday where Casemiro and Eriksen don't have the legs. What's his solution? If these players can't do it after a year, are they going to suddenly get it in a month, three months, another year?

As an example, I watched Brighton on Saturday night. They pressed and looked positive on the ball when they got it back with plenty of forward passes. Their wide players could hurt Newcastle because they were getting the ball in dangerous positions, not 40 yards from goal. In general, they looked a front foot team, as a lot of PL teams now do. We still look like a backfoot team.

Honestly it just seems like you're complaining for the sake of complaining, as you must know the comparisons you're making aren't fair or useful. You're comparing Brighton at home against a Newcastle team who aren't playing well, to us away against a difficult Arsenal side that we matched, and also in doing so comparing a Brighton team that's been playing that way for ages, under multiple managers, to EtH trying to take bus parking team and make them a front foot team and has had one season to do so thus far.

On top of that, you're completely wrong about the lack of progress. On Onana, while you're right that we had a lot of the ball at the back, my statement that we're much more comfortable doing that than last season still stands, as DDG would have just booted it after passing to an Arsenal player the first few times. On our pressing, while we were more cautious against Arsenal, it's so much better than last season, we've won the ball back in dangerous areas a lot so far this season. So there's clearly marked improvement, we aren't the finished article yet and so we aren't naively trying to go toe to toe with top teams away from home, but it takes time.
 
I do not know why people are praising our performance yesterday. It was not dogshit (like against Wolves or second half vs Spurs), but Arsenal was by far the better team.

2.27-0.96 in xG
42 touches for them in our box vs 19 for us in their box
168 passes for them in our final third vs 47 for us in their final third
Only 12.2% of our passes were in the final third, the second lowest we ever did since this stat started getting measured almost 2 decades ago.

Essentially, we played LVG-like football where we kept the ball between defenders but were unable to do much with it. But back then it was insomnia-curing football while now it is progressive football. Similar to how when Mourinho criticizes players it is toxic, but when EtH does it, it is not an issue.

Not even Ole got as many excuses.
Got people praising the fact we passed it at the back and Arsenal stopped pressing from the front.
 
He's a top manager but like quite a few before him he's the right guy at the wrong time, the club has no structure and is run like a circus, I think results will improve but everything about the club only recovers when there are new owners in place and it is run without the handbrake on.
 
Got people praising the fact we passed it at the back and Arsenal stopped pressing from the front.

Do you not think it's worthy of praise that one of our big weaknesses from last season has been addressed? We went out of the Europa League last season because we couldn't pass the ball around the back, and more generally added huge amounts of pressure every match we were hanging on because we'd have to constantly lump the ball to the opposition.
 
Do you not think it's worthy of praise that one of our big weaknesses from last season has been addressed? We went out of the Europa League last season because we couldn't pass the ball around the back, and more generally added huge amounts of pressure every match we were hanging on because we'd have to constantly lump the ball to the opposition.
I think Onana is getting praised plenty in his performance thread.
 
Got people praising the fact we passed it at the back and Arsenal stopped pressing from the front.

Some people can see the bigger picture the players are comfortable passing it around at the back now and soon it will become more automatic and get faster and we'll be able to build better and work our way through the 3rds quicker, it's a loss and a bad one just some people don't shit the bed at the start of the season and see what it is Rome wasn't built in a day
 
I do not know why people are praising our performance yesterday. It was not dogshit (like against Wolves or second half vs Spurs), but Arsenal was by far the better team.

2.27-0.96 in xG
42 touches for them in our box vs 19 for us in their box
168 passes for them in our final third vs 47 for us in their final third
Only 12.2% of our passes were in the final third, the second lowest we ever did since this stat started getting measured almost 2 decades ago.

Essentially, we played LVG-like football where we kept the ball between defenders but were unable to do much with it. But back then it was insomnia-curing football while now it is progressive football. Similar to how when Mourinho criticizes players it is toxic, but when EtH does it, it is not an issue.

Not even Ole got as many excuses.
Anybody calling that progressive football is obviously wrong, but it can be the foundation to it.

I quite like comparing what United did post LVG to what Bayern did, and it is clear that the latter used that style of play as a foundation to a more flexible and progressive style under Heynckes and went on to win the treble.

United missed the opportunity to do something similar when LVG left, but there is a chance that ETH can do this now- built a foundation by at least being able to play LVG style, but then add more progressive elements. They way his Ajax team played gives hope that he wants to do this, so I can up to a certain degree understand these excuses made for him.

But this progress has to be seen at some point otherwise it will just be failed hope.
 
Honestly, every argument I have heard about EtH to me looks like a deja vu for the previous managers. That they are geniuses, that it will take time but ultimately they would win us big titles, that no one else would do better with this group of players, that they just need to get rid of the deadwood and continue signing good players, that the style is progressive. And then ultimately they got sacked for being shit, their style of football suddenly became ‘shit on a stick’, and that their transfers suddenly become deadwood. I do not see much difference this time around, I think in 18 months Antony, Malacia, Eriksen and Mount will be firmly in the deadwood category, and probably Martinez too if the new manager decides that he doesn’t want a bottom 10 percentile player when it comes to aerial duels in his team. Add to it Casemiro will be 32-33 and need replacing and the ‘400m well-spent money’ will essentially be Onana and probably Hojlund. Figuratively speaking, I think it is a cult where people defend the manager at all costs, and mistake supporting the club with supporting the manager. We should support the club, and keep accountable the employees of the club, be them high managers like Murtough or mid-level managers like ETH.

Nailed it. Exactly my thoughts. You could look through the previous year threads and the arguments defending the managers are exactly the same. Injuries, deadwood, he isn't getting the player they want, no one better out there,etc... They are just clutching at straws and more out of desperation rather than evidence.

But with the main point I agree and have been screaming about it since the Mourinho days. We need a football structure in place, a DoF who is the manager’s boss, not manager’s bitch. We need people knowledgeable around him. The manager should be a head coach, a mid-level manager whose job is training the players, selecting them to play and doing the tactics. The recruiting should be not related to the manager, or at most he should have a minimal input to that. Essentially, we need to build a machine where the manager is an important, but small part of it. An easily replaceable part.

Again, bang on. We essentially need people above the manager telling him, this is the style we need, this is the players you have got. Can you do it?. That's how the structure should be.


If we can look through the whole of oles transfer dealings, the overarching theme was he is developing a great squad for the next manager, whereas now its all of one's signings are deadwood.
 
I think Onana is getting praised plenty in his performance thread.

Yeah and rightfully so, I was replying to a comment that seemed to suggest that it wasn't worthy of praise, which I find quite bizarre.
 
I dont know the protocol when it comes to this subject, so I'll dance around it a bit. There's an investigation with a Manchester United player that is really going to test the resolve of this manager. He's lost a lot of support over the Greenwood situation as it is. And his support of Overmars left a lot to be desired.
 
Why did he say he thought Martial was very good? He was awful. Why’s he keep defending him.
 
What's that style ? Point us to it, as we're way too blind to recognize it, sorry.

All I'm seeing is the same godawful football we have been watching for years, and by the way, LVG's United to have a lot of possession at the back too. Why are we acting like this is a completely new thing at United ? And we were crap under LVG.
There were tons of posts explaining it already, should people repeat it thousand times more, at this rate, it should be stickied somewhere for people to see.
 
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What's that style ? Point us to it, as we're way too blind to recognize it, sorry.

All I'm seeing is the same godawful football we have been watching for years, and by the way, LVG's United to have a lot of possession at the back too. Why are we acting like this is a completely new thing at United ? And we were crap under LVG.

We've gone over this before, so it's a pointless discussion. We're clearly trying to play a different style, it hasn't all come together yet, and acting like we're the same as under LVG, Mou, or Ole is just willful ignorance
 
Honestly, every argument I have heard about EtH to me looks like a deja vu for the previous managers. That they are geniuses, that it will take time but ultimately they would win us big titles, that no one else would do better with this group of players, that they just need to get rid of the deadwood and continue signing good players, that the style is progressive. And then ultimately they got sacked for being shit, their style of football suddenly became ‘shit on a stick’, and that their transfers suddenly become deadwood. I do not see much difference this time around, I think in 18 months Antony, Malacia, Eriksen and Mount will be firmly in the deadwood category, and probably Martinez too if the new manager decides that he doesn’t want a bottom 10 percentile player when it comes to aerial duels in his team. Add to it Casemiro will be 32-33 and need replacing and the ‘400m well-spent money’ will essentially be Onana and probably Hojlund. Figuratively speaking, I think it is a cult where people defend the manager at all costs, and mistake supporting the club with supporting the manager. We should support the club, and keep accountable the employees of the club, be them high managers like Murtough or mid-level managers like ETH.

But with the main point I agree and have been screaming about it since the Mourinho days. We need a football structure in place, a DoF who is the manager’s boss, not manager’s bitch. We need people knowledgeable around him. The manager should be a head coach, a mid-level manager whose job is training the players, selecting them to play and doing the tactics. The recruiting should be not related to the manager, or at most he should have a minimal input to that. Essentially, we need to build a machine where the manager is an important, but small part of it. An easily replaceable part.

I think we are all welcome to judge the progress in implementing a more cohesive game plan (or lack thereof) which is the maximum extent of what I hope for (and hopefully a top 4 finish and a good showing in all other competitions) but I do think some of the negativity at this point is a little hysterical. Until the club is sold (?) the best thing to do is let the team do its thing and hopefully steady itself top table come November and December.
 
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