Poor finishing really let us down yesterday. Poor officiating too. Should’ve been 2-0 at half time.
Ten Hag can’t put the ball in the net for you. Once the players are on the pitch, it’s out of his hands.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Ten Hag can’t put the ball in the net for you. Once the players are on the pitch, it’s out of his hands.
Second half had nothing to do with poor finishing. Football is a 90 min game
I didn’t actually watch the second half in fairness, I had to go out.
You did the right thing.
Absolutely not. But the first halve could have impacted the second halve. Going in at 2-0 at halve time and we’d of won the game.
ETH outperformed last season and was rewarded with a mediocre transfer window. As ever the problem is the Glazers.
Stop choosing to ignore it when it’s blatantly there. If we hired pep/klopp no one can convince me we would be in this mess
Bolded part is one of the main problems in this forum. There doesn't seem to be a middle ground. Why would a 3 wins, 1 loss start make a manager a hero? That is crazy. There is a lot of room between shit and fantastic, lets use it. Would take out the sting from many debates in here as well.
It won't get more true because you constantly repeating yourself. I am one of the staunchest critics of the guy, even in games where he gets praised in here. But to say he is the cause for all issues is beyond nonsensical. Bruno has a certain skill set, he needs to be used in the correct way to make the most out of him. His style has downsides, no questions about that, but take him out of the team, and attack and defense will still be distanced too far apart. We still wouldn't have anybody who can maintain a ball in the middle of the pitch. We still have no freaking striker, fullbacks who carry above average offensive capabilities or productive wingers.
Its mental. ETH told you his plans: transitional side. That means he doesn't value possession and control over fast transitions. Its like complaining about your car not going over 100 mph when the dealer told you that its high speed is 90 mph but handling is fantastic.
As soon as there is some disharmony around the team, people start going for witchhunts, ffs, it isn't the fecking Middle Age anymore. Critizise the player, he absolutely deserves it, but save yourself the "he is the cause of all our confusion". Do it only for not appearing kind of clueless.
We've spent 150m.
He's been heavily backed. The Glazers are a problem, but you can't say ETH hasn't had money to spend.
Modern style ? Where?
Nah I’m not having that to be honest he’s spent over 400m in 12months and signed 7-8 players
Im all for getting the Glazers out but ETH can’t complain about the players he’s been given nearly every single one of them has a connection to himself or Ajax
Struggling to see what the system is to be honest. We still seem to rely on moments than consistent game play.
But also his signings should be based off a system he has started to put in place last season. Not create a new system every season based on signings
Just fyi - it isn't an argument when it cannot be proven. We obviously had issues all over the organisation. Things looked a little better in the last 1-2 years but we for sure aren't there yet. Identifying the manager, the weakest link in all of that, as the main issue, is cheap as feck. Won't go anywhere if we only fall for those reptile brain "conclusions"
Thats the problem there’s no modern style. It generally looks like we’ve picked 11 names and just told them to ‘play’
It’s almost amateurish how unbalanced and prepared the side look, picking essentially 5 attacking players when we play with 40% possession and can’t string 5 passes together? comical
Lovely comment
We're witnessing right now that even Klopp can't do much without an excellent sporting director working his magic in the background.
Like last season at Spurs?
I’m not dismissing the fact that the owners are shite. But we have spent a lot of money recently and don’t look better than last season. This issue then falls onto the manager and if he can’t fix it then he’s not good enough.
Bruno is an excellent #10 and can even play as #6 or 8 if we are chasing a goal with urgency and we are fine exposing our defense. The problem is that he is asked to do something new, the same with Mount. It may take time to gel or it may never work, as it happened with Pogba. It is high risk because if it doesn't work by September, our options are limited.
A third of our team is designed to play possession-based football, another third to sit back and counter-attack and the other third to play quick transitions. Whatever the game plan is, two-thirds of the team is not suited for it.
Will be interesting to see how he reacts. I personally think we really have to tighten up the midfield and accept we're going to have to grind results for now. The attackers aren't suddenly going to become super clinical or at least we can't continue to let ourselves be so exposed to a turn over in the hopes it does click. I think we have to put someone next to Casemiro and tell them that their main job is to help anchor the midfield. Let Shaw/ the right back push on, there's less risk letting someone down the wing, but we can't keep the middle so open. That away record against top 9 speaks for itself- we've got to do better and probably part of that is recognising that we're not good enough in attack to try and play an expansive game.
How long before we see the “should’ve went for Pochettino” comments?
Getting a midfielder signed is crucial. A lot of rumours on twitter that Martial is in negotiations with Saudi Arabia so hopefully we can bring another striker in too.
Your assume the scouts are any good.
Previous managers have had a very different opinion.
King Erik must sort this out now, and not in a month time when it's already too late. And stop signing players who played or plays in Eredivisie.
So we shouldn't have signed Onana or Martinez?
If we are going to play with an open midfield you at least need to have some attackers who can hurt the opposition, we don't have those. Rashford needs to go back on the left wing, antony offers little outside of his work rate and garnacho is still very inexperienced and plays better off of the bench. Teams can afford to take risks against us because they know we wont hurt them, we see teams commiting huge numbers forward in attack and they over run us.
I think we actually have a good back line including the goalkeeper, i think casemiro is a good player but needs support. The rest of the team has huge question marks, rashford at left wing makes sense but outside of that i'm unsure. We really could of done with no buying mount and going for amrabat and then get another striker in, we need someone who can score somes goals.
I think we actually have a good back line including the goalkeeper, i think casemiro is a good player but needs support. The rest of the team has huge question marks, rashford at left wing makes sense but outside of that i'm unsure. We really could of done with no buying mount and going for amrabat and then get another striker in, we need someone who can score somes goals.
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Means nothing in this day and age. Chelsea spent almost £300m revamping their midfield. We've been relying on loans and free transfers or raising funds before strengthening.
Already saw a few.
Chelsea are a complete anamoly at the moment.
The Glazers are awful, but let's not act like ETH hasn't been backed.
Almost every player brought in was his 1st choice target as well.
I don't think we will be changin Ten Hag anytime soon, but he can't be in charge of transfers anymore imo.
I mean the scouting department concluded Maguire wasn't an upgrade on the center-backs we had under Jose. He got vetoed, but then OGS went for him anyways next year.
They were better than both managers in that regard.
I don't think we should panic after 2 games, especially when he's proved he can recover from a worse start last season. That said, there are some concerns starting to creep in.
I knew very little of him before, I'd seen his Ajax team play once in the CL semi-final and that's it. I kept reading about his style of play and expected us to become an exciting team to watch again. So far, I don't see that. He had excuses last year given it was his first season and he had to deal with Ronaldo and others that he didn't really want. But he's now had 2 pre-seasons, spent plenty of money on signings he wanted so it's reasonable to believe we should be a lot more entertaining than we currently are. It shouldn't take that long to at least see some strong signs of what he's trying to achieve. Spurs have had a couple of weeks and you can see the difference.
What does he say at half-time that so often we collapse after the break? This is a problem that keeps being repeated. We play okay in the first half, miss a couple of good chances and then the 2nd half is a shocker. Often that's started by conceding a couple of minutes into the restart and then we're unable to recover from it, whatever is causing that needs to be addressed.
Then there are things like playing Rashford as CF, shoving Bruno out to the wing. It doesn't work. Clearly we have an issue with the lack of strikers at the moment but there are other options that don't see our one goal threat not playing in his best position. Likewise Bruno, even on one of his worst games you know he'll create at least 1 or 2 chances which is more than can be said for anyone else.
His transfers are starting to look an issue too. I think that was mentioned by Ajax fans and you can see why. We've been down this road several times where a manager is given free reign and then the next one has to sort out that mess. It's perhaps too early to say that here but it's certainly a possibility that it could be the case again.
Ultimately though, until we get sorted off the pitch with the ownership and structure within the club, it doesn't really matter who the manager is because it feels impossible to succeed with things as they are.
I knew very little of him before, I'd seen his Ajax team play once in the CL semi-final and that's it. I kept reading about his style of play and expected us to become an exciting team to watch again. So far, I don't see that. He had excuses last year given it was his first season and he had to deal with Ronaldo and others that he didn't really want. But he's now had 2 pre-seasons, spent plenty of money on signings he wanted so it's reasonable to believe we should be a lot more entertaining than we currently are. It shouldn't take that long to at least see some strong signs of what he's trying to achieve. Spurs have had a couple of weeks and you can see the difference.
What does he say at half-time that so often we collapse after the break? This is a problem that keeps being repeated. We play okay in the first half, miss a couple of good chances and then the 2nd half is a shocker. Often that's started by conceding a couple of minutes into the restart and then we're unable to recover from it, whatever is causing that needs to be addressed.
Then there are things like playing Rashford as CF, shoving Bruno out to the wing. It doesn't work. Clearly we have an issue with the lack of strikers at the moment but there are other options that don't see our one goal threat not playing in his best position. Likewise Bruno, even on one of his worst games you know he'll create at least 1 or 2 chances which is more than can be said for anyone else.
His transfers are starting to look an issue too. I think that was mentioned by Ajax fans and you can see why. We've been down this road several times where a manager is given free reign and then the next one has to sort out that mess. It's perhaps too early to say that here but it's certainly a possibility that it could be the case again.
Ultimately though, until we get sorted off the pitch with the ownership and structure within the club, it doesn't really matter who the manager is because it feels impossible to succeed with things as they are.
Starting to get a bit concerned with ten hag especially in his transfer decisions we have spent nearly 400 million since he has taking over and only one has been a good signing Martinez, don’t get me wrong Casemiro is a great player but 70 million for a 30 year old is a bit short sighted, the less said about Antony the better, we can’t judge mount after 2 games but I don’t get what he brings, onana is another one that baffles me good keeper who is great with the ball at his feet but what’s the point if the defence can’t play out from the back, baffles me how he can’t look at how we play at the moment and can’t be concerned how weak and tired we constantly look a bit of pace in the game and we just can’t handle it. I’m hoping hojlund being a vocal point will change things and we start looking like a team.
He’d of surely learnt from last season and made changes earlier to control the 2nd halve?
he’s got no choice we need a proper dof otherwise he can only choose what he wants.
They could spend 10 years in the Gym still weak in the tackle and weak in the head.
I dont think any manager has been backed as much as they should have been. We're in dire need of CMs and haven't been able to sign any, is that being backed? Though, maybe ETH should have prioritised a CM over Mount.
You can't seriously argue he has been backed. We had the chance to get rid of McT and Maguire and rejected the offer. We still have Henderson, VdB, Bailly and Williams at the club. I'm not going to excuse ETH as much as I did last year but we're still being fecked by the Glazers.
I agree with the observation - I agree, there isn't much to go on where the overall style of play has changed. But that could be down to a lot of reasons - not all solely on ETH. IF ETH is going for the system he is going for Casemiro, Bruno, Mount(*), then it was obvious that this wouldn't be implemented without teething pains... I know it sucks, I know I wish we could be a bit more consequential, yadda yadda yadda. I am the last person who stops people from criticizing but we also have to face reality, our competitors have years advance in terms of style evolution, squad evolution. We brought in a modern manager last year. Squad has changed a bit but the team isn't developing just by swapping pieces here and there.
There is famous picture - if you stop in the middle of heart surgery, it looks like murder. Might be the same here, if we want to evolve, we have to go through pain. Another manager won't be able to instantly create an organized pressing structure too. Another manager wouldn't be able to implement effective patterns of play within in 4 weeks. LVG, Mou and Ole missed key evolutions in football and we as a team are suffering from it. The suffer won't just stop because we get rid of the weakest element in the equasion.
*- and lets not act as if Mount and Bruno in front of Casemiro is sooo much different than Gundogan and KDB in front of Rodri. Or Odegard and Xhaka in front of Partey. This system can work if things are in place. I hope we are working on bringing those pieces in place, but if two bad games stop the plan we had and recruited for, than we are just setting ourselves up for more delays.
You can't just buy success or "looking better". This seems to be a popular misunderstanding. City didn't just buy success, they bought very competent people to create the foundations of success. I see what you mean, much money has been spent and we want to see developments, I agree, but if the only conclusion is always skipping the manager, we will forever spin in oblivion. Right now - we seemingly don't have anybody except for the manager who seems to have some sort of football plan for the club. That is a problem in itself but it is what it is. Changing manager would reset this plan AGAIN, with all its downsides as well.
ETH might not be the 2nd coming, he may not even be "good enough" to bring back former glory. But he created two Ajax sides who played modern and successful football. He knows his stuff - and even if he isn't the best in the room, it is better to walk a painful walk than to reset every two years.
Things would be different if our footballing side of club structure would be different, but it is what it is.
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I think in all fairness when we aren't competing for the best players out there like Kane, Caseido or Rice we can safely say we are shopping in the Special offer aile. What we praised last summer that ETH was buying players into the right roles we are now complaining about the players not being good enough. We have bought three players one looks brilliant, one looks a talent but we haven't seen him play yet and then there is Mount. Everyone feared this when he was signed and just hoped ETH was a tactical genius. These two games do not at all show any tactical nous and Mount looks just the player everyone feared he was.
It won't get more true because you constantly repeating yourself.
Also you not accepting Bruno is the cause of our midfield issues will make him a better player. Not today or tomorrow or next year
- Bruno has won nothing in his career. He's turning 29 years in September. In 2 weeks time.
- He has never played in champion league semi final in HIS LIFE. even 1 game.
- Has he played in Champions League Quater Finals? Can't think of any
- He has never won a LEAGUE title in his LIFE.
- He has never been involved in any title race in HIS LIFE.
- He massively flops against our biggest rivals.
- But somehow he will deliver league titles and ucl to United as a 30+ year old Club captain
. Being delusional is an option still.
Its mental. ETH told you his plans: transitional side. That means he doesn't value possession and control over fast transitions.
This is what will make ETH sacked, he's building a team around Bruno who is the master of releasing a ball the minute he gets it. This is the main problem we have. This is what brings the confusion. This is why to date we have ZERO playing style. We run like zombies in the field.
Our tactic is run after the ball, get it, then play early to the strikers, over the top for them to chase.
We are playing at the disadvantage of the other 9-10 players to the benefits of a one player called Bruno who has WON NOTHING is his CAREER.
Its not a coincidence we play same way as Ole.
It's not rocket science.Game plan is same, patterns of play are invisible as usual, batterings and hammerings are still there, midfield non existent is still an issue.
It's because Ole bought Bruno made him a focal point, games unraveled quickly he was sacked.
ETH has made Bruno captain and still his focal point.
I have said it, Bruno will outlast ETH. One or the other will be gone in 18 months. Either club captain or club manager. Either ETH pulls the plug on Bruno or the club will pull the plug on him
Dont expect a change of game patterns with Bruno around, don't expect to win a league or ucl with Bruno in the team. It's a hard reality we as United fans need to accept.
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