Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JuriM]

Watching the MOTD with my morning oats and coffee atm and they are raving about the Szoboszlai performance - and now to say he is the very same mold as Mount, but we are utilizing Mount weirdly in transition and defensive setup he is often in no man's land. I can't understand whether it's down to other players not doing their work is he is not having a certain duty to follow there.

If I would like to generate this season's Manchester United tactics in Fm23 game, I wouldn't know where to start, I can't really understand the player roles yet.

 

[Roboc7]

I know it's only 2 games but we may need to start to look into Plan B (like any well run club would do) if this season ends in disaster. The start of the season really look awful and not promising at all.

After 400M and more than 1 year of ETH we are still nowhere near to playing modern attacking high intensity football. We look knackered after 1st half.

Maybe worth to start to look at De Zerbi for plan B?

Then De Zerbi will just be picking all the players we buy and it’s back to square one. Until we get a proper structure and recruitment we are completely screwed and that is clearly not going to happen unless we get new owners.

 

[slored1]

We looked out of shape in the second half. Our buildup has not improved even with a better keeper and a full preseason.

Worrying signs ahead, but I'm willing to give him at least 3-4 months before judging him harsher.

 

[Baxquux]

Exactly, Rangnick was outspoken and demanded real change but CAF hated him, not sure why. If he was still here he would speak out in the press on what's wrong in the club at the moment and demand changes. But I guess, Arnold and Murtough don't want to have someone constantly "telling" them what had to be done.

Rangnick recommendation for signings was also decent. Most of the targets he identified went to big clubs shortly after.

Rangnick would have brought us a tougher midfield in physical terms, but no guarantee that it'd be a midfield able to deal with technical challenges of PL now that clubs even in midtable are increasingly recruitng midfielders who combine strength, speed but also other forms of press-resistance , (i.e through positioning and passing and anticipation). Rangnick was a fan of McT to the extent that he tipped him for captaincy- a player who lacks positioning skills, with erratic passing, not brave to show for the ball, not comfortable with it in congested areas etc. We might well have signed a couple of lunks. Definitely need a strong DOF to , at best, counteract ETH's blindspots whilst the club is still invested in his tenure, but sceptical about Rangnick - he wasn't wrong about needing to overhaul the squad but not the guy to implement those changes, even if he also wouldn't have committed to, say, spending 80+ on Antony...

 

[OrcaFat]

Watching the MOTD with my morning oats and coffee atm and they are raving about the Szoboszlai performance - and now to say he is the very same mold as Mount, but we are utilizing Mount weirdly in transition and defensive setup he is often in no man's land. I can't understand whether it's down to other players not doing their work is he is not having a certain duty to follow there.

If I would like to generate this season's Manchester United tactics in Fm23 game, I wouldn't know where to start, I can't really understand the player roles yet.

The oats are the problem. You need double bacon, double sausage and double fried bread.

 

[Cassidy]

Rangnick would have brought us a tougher midfield in physical terms, but no guarantee that it'd be a midfield able to deal with technical challenges of POL now that clubs even in midtable are increasingly recruitng moidfielders who combine strength, speed but also other forms of press-resistance , (i.e through poistioning and passing and anticipation). Rangnick was a fan of McT to the extent that he tipped him for captaincy- a player who lacks positioning skills, with erratic passing, not brave to show for the ball, not comfortable with it in ingested areas etc -we might well have signed a couple of lunks. We definitely need a strong DOF to , at best, counteract ETH's blindspots whilst the club is still invested in his tenure, but sceptical about Rangnick - he wasn't wrong about needing to overhaul the squad but not the guy to implement those changes, even if he also wouldn't have committed to, say, spending 80+ on Antony...

Ragnick wanted United to sign Kone Akanji and Nkuku. He rated McTominay out of the midfielders we had, also because of his age and mentality, not for his technical ability.

 

[OrcaFat]

We looked out of shape in the second half. Our buildup has not improved even with a better keeper and a full preseason.

Worrying signs ahead, but I'm willing to give him at least 3-4 months before judging him harsher.

Agreed. I will join the mob if it still looks like this by Xmas.

 

[Castia]

For a start EtH has deliberately acquired players to facilitate a change of tactics so I wouldn’t expect it to be consistent with last season. He’s trying to push us forward from last season by doing something different.

It’s like Dyche at Everton waking up one morning and deciding he’s going to play tiki taka then being confused why his players aren’t knocking it around 1 touch like 09 Barcelona

There’s no game plan or setup what so ever to accommodate 5 front players in this ETH ‘tactic’, imagine trying to play with half a team of attackers when the players on the field can barely put 2 passes together or do the fundamental basics of football like make a run off the ball

Embarrassing

 

[erikcred]

We looked out of shape in the second half. Our buildup has not improved even with a better keeper and a full preseason.

Worrying signs ahead, but I'm willing to give him at least 3-4 months before judging him harsher.

Even if we wait till the end of the season and all that happens is we sneak into the CL places again without ever being in a title race, while getting battered by the usual suspects away from home, what's even the point? The title challengers probably see us minor road bumps. It's embarrassing.

 

[manichester]

He needs to take the Mount Bruno blinkers off, they do not compliment each other both are weak and cannot do a job that is alien to them.

 

[OrcaFat]

Rangnick wanted United to sign Kone Akanji and Nkuku

If Rangnick writes a book about what really happened I will first in the queue to get it. He was a beaten man by week three of his tenure.

I expect he was immersed in non-disclosure clauses up to his eyeballs. This club.

 

[OrcaFat]

He needs to take the Mount Bruno blinkers off, they do not compliment each other both are weak and cannot do a job that is alien to them.

They are still working it out.

 

[Jeffthered]

Watching the MOTD with my morning oats and coffee atm and they are raving about the Szoboszlai performance - and now to say he is the very same mold as Mount, but we are utilizing Mount weirdly in transition and defensive setup he is often in no man's land. I can't understand whether it's down to other players not doing their work is he is not having a certain duty to follow there.

If I would like to generate this season's Manchester United tactics in Fm23 game, I wouldn't know where to start, I can't really understand the player roles yet.

Good point, I'm also watching MOTD... Szoboszlai was decent (not as good as Danny Murphy stated), but he's no better than Mason Mount. But he has a better structure and manager who seems to think with more clarity. I think we need to go to 4-2-3-1. SMT alongside Casimero. Rashford playing as the left attacking midfielder, alongside Bruno and Mount. Rasmus up front.

What this requires though, is a good quality and very attacking (naturally attacking) right back, and no, AWB is not good enough for that role. Step up Dalot, who I prefer anyway, because he's a better football player. AWB is all over the place and lacks footballing technique, intelligence and urgency. Another OGS signing.

 

[OrcaFat]

Even if we wait till the end of the season and all that happens is we sneak into the CL places again without ever being in a title race, while getting battered by the usual suspects away from home, what's even the point? The title challengers probably see us minor road bumps. It's embarrassing.

I think the reaction to a couple of lacklustre performances is really daft. However, I don’t think the club is going to ignore it if the team is struggling after 12-15 games. If we are not in the top four at that point I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EtH is one heavy defeat away from being sacked.

We are away to Liverpool mid December. Get hammered there and it could be curtains. Then again we could be flying at that point.

 

[kaku06]

He looks absolutely broken in the post match interview like not broken by a result but broken like he’s trying his best but it’s not working out and doesn’t have a clue how to rectify this. I’m worried.

His reaction doesn’t seem like a manager who knows what he’s doing. It’s not like “although it’s going wrong right now yet I’ll get it right after some time.” His demeanour screams of someone who’s nervous and not confident at all.

 

[LARulz]

I think the reaction to a couple of lacklustre performances is really daft. However, I don’t think the club is going to ignore it if the team is struggling after 12-15 games. If we are not in the top four at that point I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if EtH is one heavy defeat away from being sacked.

We are away to Liverpool mid December. Get hammered there and it could be curtains. Then again we could be flying at that point.

But it's not just a couple of games. Our general performances since the Carabao Cup final have been average at absolute best and after a whole summer with generally a fit squad I would have expected a rejuvenated team with a plan. Instead it's the same

I don't want ETH to go but to pass it off as just 2 games isn't a fair reflection considering this is still a continuation

 

[OrcaFat]

But it's not just a couple of games. Our general performances since the Carabao Cup final have been average at absolute best and after a whole summer with generally a fit squad I would have expected a rejuvenated team with a plan. Instead it's the same

I don't want ETH to go but to pass it off as just 2 games isn't a fair reflection considering this is still a continuation

It’s two games since we changed the system and some key personnel. Without even having our main summer signing in the squad yet.

 

[Suv666]

Its not looking good bruv our record against the top sides is embarrassing to say the least. We are missing a striker so will reserve judgement till I’ve seen how we play with Hojlund but I’m not gonna lie, losing faith a little bit.
Its incredibly naive to think we can hack it with a midfield of Cas, Bruno and Mount. Antony, our marquee signing looks woefully out of his depth as well. He must have been aware of his strengths and weaknesses still decided he’s good enough for Utd. Making me question ETH’s judgement.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

It'll click once Rashford is put back on the wing, Rasmus is fit, and we buy a midfielder to play with Casemiro.

We are a million miles away from thinking ETH isn't good enough.

 

[Zed is not dead]

His tactics actually work. It’s a bit of a high risk high reward though.

We have the same issue as last year, we severely underperform our xG, our problem is mostly finishing.
His tactics get the players in the right situations to get goals, the players fail to get the goals.

Failing to capitalise on our good periods, it’s only natural the oppo team will have chances and have their confidence growing through the game.

That’s the difference with Arsenal who usually manage to score very early on and then can just play their game with more confidence while undermining the opponents’ confidence

 

[JuriM]

Rashford only works as a striker if the team plays in a low block aiming for the over-the-top counter attacks like we did under Ole. Every possession-oriented side needs a striker to play off from, in those 2 games we haven't had that yet - the few minutes Martial got yesterday don't really count as we were desperately chasing shadows already and Martial is far from match-fit atm.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

What I don’t understand - Antony this, that - is why we seem so disorganised in our tactical setup. Spurs looked really well drilled in the second half, running what seem like well known patterns of play consistently. We just reverted to the usual team of individuals, ad hoc decision making we usually do. More than individuals I’m not sure why we can’t see a cohesive unit by now. It makes no sense and manager after manager are unable to do it.

Spurs looked shite, too. It's easy to create patterns of play when your opponents have run out of gas. And they still needed the luckiest of bounces and an own goal to go ahead.

The idea is that, when you go full throttle with the high press, you win so many balls in the attacking third and (at some point in the first half) you manage 25 touches in the opposition box to your opponent's 7, you have to make it count.

That's why Eriksen has come on midway through both second halves. We know we'll concede a few yards and we want his passes from deeper positions. It hasn't looked well, but it's also a compromise born of necessity in both games. Ideally, we'd like to do it when we have a lead to protect. This hasn't been the case thus far. Which is probably why we see wholesome changes up front and fresher legs getting on the pitch.

It is what it is. It may work in the near future (with some tweaks here and there) or it may not. ETH made his choices and he has to live with them (and i'm not talking specifically about Mount). I maintain that being susceptible to counters is a tactical issue as well as a one of personnel. Unlike Klopp, who has refined gegen-press to accomplish certain objectives (force the ball in the wide areas), ETH seems to come out straight from Bielsa's textbook. Not much coordination, but mainly man-oriented with certain triggers when to push and when to drop off. Not surprisingly, Bielsa's sides always look fatigued as the game progresses.

Don't know, maybe he should revert to a low-block and a double-pivot. Maybe he should sack him and appoint a manager who will do just that. It seems to be what the Caf wants although i had the impression that we wanted to move away from that type if football.

 

[RedIan]

He looks absolutely broken in the post match interview like not broken by a result but broken like he’s trying his best but it’s not working out and doesn’t have a clue how to rectify this. I’m worried.

His reaction doesn’t seem like a manager who knows what he’s doing. It’s not like “although it’s going wrong right now yet I’ll get it right after some time.” His demeanour screams of someone who’s nervous and not confident at all.

complete and utter nonsense.

 

[Appletonred]

Casemiro and Martinez are the only decent signings he has made, reserving judgment on the young kid from Atlanta, Antony for the outlay looks more and more a disastrous signing, Malacia out of his depth and Mount so far looks like another poor piece of business, is this the season that Ten Hag is found wanting?

 

[Oldyella]

Agreed. I will join the mob if it still looks like this by Xmas.

Yeah, we started terribly last season and turned it around, so no panic yet. But I am worried about his signings. Sooner we get a change in ownership and hopefully a proper football structure and DOF the better.

 

[Baxquux]

Rangnick wanted United to sign Kone Akanji and Nkuku. He rated McTominay out of the midfielders we had, also because of his age and mentality, not for his technical ability.

All those options would certainly have made our squad better (particularly if they come in for players who should have been moved out like Maguire, ETH also gets Lis etc), but the effusiveness of McT praise was pretty concerning...it's one thing to praise mentality - he hides a lot anyway, so mentality is mixed by any standard, at least at club level - another thing to suggest he should not only be in first team squad but captain, hence de facto guaranteed starter.

 

[Buster15]

He looks absolutely broken in the post match interview like not broken by a result but broken like he’s trying his best but it’s not working out and doesn’t have a clue how to rectify this. I’m worried.

His reaction doesn’t seem like a manager who knows what he’s doing. It’s not like “although it’s going wrong right now yet I’ll get it right after some time.” His demeanour screams of someone who’s nervous and not confident at all.

Strange take. How do you expect him to be after such a poor performance.

 

[pascell]

We finished lower in the league in joses first season than we did the season prior to him joining. The football served up for the most part was absolute dog shit and we made it into the UCL via the back door despite signing pogba for a then record and having an all time great striker in the side.

ETH is doing fine for now. We're 2 games in, teams have teething problems with systems and I suspect our transfer business isn't finished yet either given the start we've had. People are losing their minds despite what was produced last season. If we're still playing terrible by the end of September then I'd be worried.

But we're not 2 games in, we're over a season in and no one knows what our style of play actually is.

'Despite what was produced last season' c'mon now we were terrible in large parts of last season.

 

[OrcaFat]

His tactics actually work. It’s a bit of a high risk high reward though.

We have the same issue as last year, we severely underperform our xG, our problem is mostly finishing.
His tactics get the players in the right situations to get goals, the players fail to get the goals.

Failing to capitalise on our good periods, it’s only natural the oppo team will have chances and have their confidence growing through the game.

That’s the difference with Arsenal who usually manage to score very early on and then can just play their game with more confidence while undermining the opponents’ confidence

Yeah. We don’t look like a well-oiled machine but at this point I’m putting that down to the need for more drilling and more matches. You’re absolutely right about the lack of goals compared to chances we create. It’s terrible. However I would expect an upturn eventually.

One problem is the players are not fully confident in the system yet and go off piste in adversity. EtH is trying to get it into them that they mustn’t deviate from the rules (whatever the feck they are).

We do miss quite a few good chances and that sort of thing kills us in the long term but it also harms us in the moment. EtH is coaching them to be less emotional. They need to be consistently aggressive and focussed. I can only assume this kind of conditioning takes a while with some players.

 

[Jev]

Casemiro and Martinez are the only decent signings he has made, reserving judgment on the young kid from Atlanta, Antony for the outlay looks more and more a disastrous signing, Malacia out of his depth and Mount so far looks like another poor piece of business, is this the season that Ten Hag is found wanting?

Even Casemiro, despite being a very good player, was a bit of a strange signing considering his age and the other signings we have made: Malacia, Mount, Martinez, Højlund, Antony, all young players, and by the time they peak, Casemiro will be well into his decline. There are even signs it has already started. Was it worth it, then, for maybe one Champions League ticket? An experienced midfield signing would have made perfect sense if the price was favourable but at that price, it seemed like a strange way to use such a large amount of money when building an entire new squad.

The rest of his signings? Malacia looks very far off the starting lineup right now, Onana and Martinez look good, Eriksen is now a 20 minute sub option, Antony is dross, Mount looks a square peg for a round hole, and Højlund is an extremely expensive gamble.

 

[Carlsen19]

If he genuinely believes that our midfield played well then I despair. This is just as bad as it was with OGS.

 

[pocco]

It’s two games since we changed the system and some key personnel. Without even having our main summer signing in the squad yet.

Hojlund isn't our main summer signing, he was a desperate signing hence the price. He's not suddenly turning into Haaland and it would be ridiculous to expect that, but that's almost what it would take to make this look even acceptable. And if you think a manager can hit the reset button by changing system and get a clean slate, then you are mistaken. We all saw the performances last season and it has to be taken into account.

 

[pocco]

His tactics actually work. It’s a bit of a high risk high reward though.

We have the same issue as last year, we severely underperform our xG, our problem is mostly finishing.
His tactics get the players in the right situations to get goals, the players fail to get the goals.

Failing to capitalise on our good periods, it’s only natural the oppo team will have chances and have their confidence growing through the game.

That’s the difference with Arsenal who usually manage to score very early on and then can just play their game with more confidence while undermining the opponents’ confidence

We created chances against Spurs, as we all knew we would based off their change of system and still working on what they're doing. This was clear from their first game, where Brentford created chances against them. Spurs looked nervous and that's when we did well. When they started to play then they dominated.

But can you say it worked vs Wolves? And there will be many games this season where teams easily soak up our attacks and punish our gaping midfield. Teams better than Wolves would absolutely embarrass us playing as we are. City, Arsenal, Newcastle, Brighton, Liverpool will have a field day. Then I'd say it'll be 50/50 against other teams in the league. Chelsea will boss our midfield.

These tactics and system just aren't viable in my opinion.

 

[Solius]

it's refreshing to hear people are beginning to call this man out. There has been a cult formed around this man where every decision he makes can't be questioned and every signing is followed by ''back the manager''

I get it fans are desperate to have a new fergie figurehead in charge, but top clubs don't give the manager all control over transfers and it's cost us dearly in the short and long term, overpaying for average players like antony or players who are past their peak Eriksen, Casimer or just on bang average fringe players like malacia. We're screaming out for a DOF

The only signing this man has got right is Martinez and Onana. Other than that it's been poor squad building/planning. For example signing mount is baffling we all know he's not going to transform any team, we have seen what he brings to England and Chelsea, moments and then goes missing/hiding. I said it before but he's merely an upgraded version of Jessie Lingard

Then we have the tactics, experimental changes like shifting bruno out wide, not being confident in playing rashford in a permanent role, Trying to shoehorn in 2 number 10s. Playing a high line but then having us play hoof ball counter attack reactionary football

Initially his plan was to have us play without a traditional cdm, as he wanted FDJ as a deep lying play maker. Casimero(who's legs are gone) just ended up being late panic buy signing suggested by the club which ended up working out for him in the short term. A bit like how getting martinez over timber worked out in the end by sheer circumstance of him not getting his first choice target.

Seeing him asissted by Steve Mclaren on the sideline fills me with no confidence that we have the right man in charge. He will keep the club steady while adding more deadwood but he will never ever reach the heights and feats of Klopp, Fergie, or pep, not in your wildest dreams

It’s not and was never a cult. People just gave him time because that’s what you do. You don’t instantly judge someone. Some questions are now rightly being asked but this is very hyperbolic to call it a cult.

 

[OrcaFat]

Strange take. How do you expect him to be after such a poor performance.

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to it. Nobody feels good after a defeat. He has pride and is frustrated by the players not taking their chances, not following the rules, losing focus, losing the match. He might be a bit nervous and worried about some of the individual performances and, let’s face it, there is no competition for places in quite a few positions. Like all managers he would like to strengthen the squad but probably has to work with what he has.

All said and done he is probably just disappointed by the result.

 

[Olecurls99]

Ole started the 19/20 season with 3 league wins in our first ten games, including 3 defeats and never came close to the sack.

Anyone thinking ETH is actually under pressure after 2 games is deluding themselves.

I remember you used to go after people for being critical of ETH. The tone has changed a bit since last season. Where's the Robbie Boy Gestapo gone?

And where oh where is this glorious style of play. Shit sandwich

 

[The-Mezzala]

For all the people calling for his head. Who out there can actually replace him?

 

[Robbie Boy]

I remember you used to go after people for being critical of ETH. The tone has changed a bit since last season. Where's the Robbie Boy Gestapo gone?

No, I'm just not a mental fanboy who can't be objective like you lot with Ole. ETH had a relatively good first season, but this season, it looks like he may struggle. It's that simple, Ole.

 

[Telsim]

Sacking him is pointless. Every manager who comes here will fail. These days at this level no one person can run a club, like SAF and Wenger used to. Managers now need a solid club structure behind them to help them and also balance them. Potter had that at Brighton. Ten Hag had that at Ajax. Klopp has that at Liverpool. And so does Pep.

We don't have that. The club is stuck 20 years ago and is either unable or unwilling to change. We have a bunch of undeniable clowns like Saint Murtough and Richard Arnold, who are glorified errand boys for the manager and liaisons between him and the parasites. We are still expecting the manager to run absolutely everything. What's the point of data analysis and scouting if no one can say no to the manager? What's the point if the philosophy changes drastically each time a new manager is appointed? What football is the club trying to play? Until these issues are rectified, it doesn't matter who is manager. The past decade has proven that.

The best we can do is stick with him and hope he does something with enough time. Spinning the manager roulette will just yield the same results. That won't save him for criticism, though.

 

[The Ferociousness]

It’s not and was never a cult. People just gave him time because that’s what you do. You don’t instantly judge someone. Some questions are now rightly being asked but this is very hyperbolic to call it a cult.

Maybe not on here but elsewhere on social media especially fan channels, I see continued repetitive cult like acclaim attributed towards him. Everything it's ''Ten hag Is a genius'' ''ETH best manager we had since Fergie'' ''Back Ten Hag'' ''This is a Process'''

I'm of the belief that managers need to earn trust, and trust is not given blindly. Serious clubs like real madrid, wouldn't be fawning over a domestic cup win and stumbling over the line to make a top 4 place finish to automatically take the position that the manager is untouchable.

I understand it's different here because we were a shit show when ETH has took over that was mainly because we had a interim and the players downed tools, we still had a high level team., but there have been red flags throughout his tenure on and off the field where I never felt it was warranted to give him God like status as manager and naively assume it's a given he's going to eventually bring long term success to bring us back to the top

With no discernable style of player after spending over close to 400 million, it's time we assess the standard and quality of what ETH is actually bringing to the table and asking if he's really doing anything special that any other mid-card level manager couldn't achieve, especially when we see other teams deliver superior team cohesion and standard of football with far less resources