Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[pocco]

What I don’t understand - Antony this, that - is why we seem so disorganised in our tactical setup. Spurs looked really well drilled in the second half, running what seem like well known patterns of play consistently. We just reverted to the usual team of individuals, ad hoc decision making we usually do. More than individuals I’m not sure why we can’t see a cohesive unit by now. It makes no sense and manager after manager are unable to do it.

My thinking is that we're just signing the wrong managers. We don't go for the ones that play the football we want and have a strong identity for it. There were Ajax fans that warned us about all of this with ETH but they got ignored as everybody had made up their minds and thought he was something different. Obviously signings haven't helped at times but it feels like Ole and ETH have largely had what they wanted and were happy with the signings.

 

[wolvored]

The annoying thing for me is I see the potential. If we had just signed some press resistant players in the past three transfer windows - and there are plenty out there - it would've taken his system to another level. A level where we could potentially compete at the top.

But we cannot identify these players. Every single outfield player he's signed has been a lightweight bar Martinez. His first window was an obvious sign he shouldn't be in charge of transfers with him thinking Casemiro and Eriksen would help solve our central midfield woes and thinking Antony would be a good option considering his limitations, but we still gave him the following two windows and it's going to cost us long term. Again.

He signed Mount and he said one of his traits was he is press resistant I think he is/was hoping to turn him into a poor mans FDJ.

 

[wolvored]

I doubt he's on high wages. He wouldn't have been earning that much at Ajax, and we won't have had to offer him big wages to tempt him into joining

£200k a week. Was on £20k a week at Ajax. This is why we struggle. We should have said we will quaduple your wage and he would still have come. I thought with Woodward gone we would change with the mega wages, but this was ridiculous.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

£200k a week. Was on £20k a week at Ajax. This is why we struggle. We should have said we will quaduple your wage and he would still have come. I thought with Woodward gone we would change with the mega wages, but this was ridiculous.

Arnold and Murtough masterclass.

 

[OrcaFat]

30 pages in twelve hours. I think this is what people mean when they talk about a meltdown.

 

[pocco]

Patience. The whole thing is going to take more than two games to start running smooth. We’ll give him better options as time goes by.

Feels like I've been here before, you asking for patience for a manager that is clearly failing and making huge mistakes. Even if these little things change, our football is still terrible and he isn't good enough to compete with other managers in the league.

 

[izec]

Out of his depth. Signs are there for everybody to see.

 

[davidmichael]

Just so many ridiculous tactical choices but one that really gets at me is why play Sancho as a false 9 all pre season to just drop him and play him from the right or left for the last 10/15 minutes of a game ? It’s as clear as day that Rashford can NOT play centrally as he needs the goal in front of him and space to run whilst Garnacho is still a child and is better from the bench.

I think ETH needs to swallow his pride and drop Antony for Pellestri until Antony can actually get it into his head he’s meant to be a creative forward player not a one trick pony who spends the game giving the ball away in the most simple situations or seemingly best helping the right back defend rather than offer anything going fecking forward, he needs a massive kick up the arse by ETH as he’s ETH’s signing.

I’d also rather play Mejbri than Mount if we’re to persist with this fecking formation as Mejbri has a bit of steel about him and is a bit of a cnut on the pitch but also is press resistant, very good on the ball and has high energy. I’d still sign Amrabat as Casemiro will need back up but I’d honestly look at playing Mejbri and Mainoo once he’s back from injury and use Mount as a Fernandes back regardless of fee.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Looks increasingly like another 3 years experiment for manager and then we will sack him. Then a new manager comes with who need another 1 billion and 3 years.

I envy those well run clubs, manager can come and go but the style of play remains.

Post SAF I don't know what is Man Utd style of play at all. Just admit we are shit and go learn from Brighton. Get the right football people in not Woodworth buddies.

 

[OrcaFat]

Feels like I've been here before, you asking for patience for a manager that is clearly failing and making huge mistakes. Even if these little things change, our football is still terrible and he isn't good enough to compete with other managers in the league.

It’s not that bad. It’s not especially good, I’ll give you that.

 

[CtrlAltDeLigt]

I honestly don’t have much doubt in ETH’s ability as a manager. He’s been tactically adept last season, conducts himself well. He deserves more than 2 games to prove he can try something new at this club.

It’s quite ironic that folks complain here about someone who’s trying to move to a modern style, while historically passing negative comments on counter attack style under previous managers.

Have trust, it’s just 2 games, we were never going to win the title anyways, performances will come back like last season once the players start realising patterns. Levels were never going to go from 0-100 in just 2 games

 

[Redstain]

30 pages in twelve hours. I think this is what people mean when they talk about a meltdown.

I think posts calling for the managers head is definitely ott but the teams performances are a concern. I think it's boarder line insanity for the manager to come in to such a disjointed team, establish some norm with the system last season and then the following season implement a totally new system when players still had limitations in the previous season tactically.

Why would you put yourself in that situation as a manager. There's not even a guarantee that the players will adapt it's nonsensical to assume that the barometer of time is somehow going to guarantee success. There are some teams that have successfully adapted to different approaches almost instantaneously.

 

[mattunited1978]

As much as i hated Rashfords performance yesterday, and always hate his lack of effort, if he's on the left yesterday, with all that good ball Garnacho had in the first half, i have no doubt we scoe at least 1 before half time

 

[Litch]

Its a worry cause I dont see the fundamentals even if he needs more players. Brighton has lost some of their best players, yet they continued to play a really exciting style of winning football.

Watching us is tumescent.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Is there a reason we stopped pressing in the second half when it was working quite well in the first

 

[Freak]

Something isn't right behind the scenes as others have stated. At the post-match press conference. He seemed crestfallen and generally resigned. I could be overreading this but I feel the atmosphere is starting to be quite toxic inside the club after just 2 games.

It's worrying that he mentions he's not too bothered about the midfield being too open when asked about it toward the end of the video.

 

[gajender]

Is there a reason we stopped pressing in the second half when it was working quite well in the first

This team look pretty under cooked I don't know what the heck we were doing preseason .

 

[Hoboman]

It's obviously too soon to make any conclusions, but our inability to impose certain style of play, be proactive and keep enough energy level during whole game are all quite worrying.

ETH has enough credit for now, but he has to figure it out quickly and without reverting to low block conter attacking noncence.

With ETH or not, one thing for sure - we desperately need to stop giving our managers so much power, especially regarding transfers. We must concentrate on certain profiles not specific players. You don't buy Casemiro because you didn't get FDJ and you don't replace Eriksen with Mount.

 

[led_scholes]

Good manager. Not good scout and DOF.
For all the hate Rangnick has received, he was right that we need to restructure the whole club, yet we still let the manager and the ceo to decide for everything.

 

[Dannn411]

30 pages in twelve hours. I think this is what people mean when they talk about a meltdown.

Think the reason why everyone, myself included, are annoyed is because last season we looked like we had some semblance of a foundation at least to build on by just improving the quality of personnel but pre-season and first two games is looking like we have gone back to square one and that is very frustrating.

If these two performances were his first two matches in charge people would be more understanding but this is after a full season and two pre-seasons with most of these players. We need to start kicking on now not regressing. He has spent close to £400m on his players. The club has paid way over the odds for his players on his insistence and that overspending is a big reason why we're in FFP mess right now. So he needs to start making it work now. No excuses.

The only excuse left for him to rest on is the fact that some useful players (Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad) are out due to injury and are still to come into the squad and this is moving key players (basically Rashford) out of position. But once those players come in, there better be significant improvement or he will be staring down the barrel pretty quickly. We cannot afford to miss out on CL football again.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I know it's only 2 games but we may need to start to look into Plan B (like any well run club would do) if this season ends in disaster. The start of the season really look awful and not promising at all.

After 400M and more than 1 year of ETH we are still nowhere near to playing modern attacking high intensity football. We look knackered after 1st half.

Maybe worth to start to look at De Zerbi for plan B?

 

[Telsim]

It's worrying that he mentions he's not too bothered about the midfield being too open when asked about it toward the end of the video.

He will become worried once Arsenal and City absolutely demolish us.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Good manager. Not good scout and DOF.
For all the hate Rangnick has received, he was right that we need to restructure the whole club, yet we still let the manager and the ceo to decide for everything.

Exactly, Rangnick was outspoken and demanded real change but CAF hated him, not sure why. If he was still here he would speak out in the press on what's wrong in the club at the moment and demand changes. But I guess, Arnold and Murtough don't want to have someone constantly "telling" them what had to be done.

Rangnick recommendation for signings was also decent. Most of the targets he identified went to big clubs shortly after.

 

[OrcaFat]

I think posts calling for the managers head is definitely ott but the teams performances are a concern. I think it's boarder line insanity for the manager to come in to such a disjointed team, establish some norm with the system last season and then the following season implement a totally new system when players still had limitations in the previous season tactically.

Why would you put yourself in that situation as a manager. There's not even a guarantee that the players will adapt it's nonsensical to assume that the barometer of time is somehow going to guarantee success. There are some teams that have successfully adapted to different approaches almost instantaneously.

Yeah. I see that posted quite a bit. I’m not really convinced that transformations are achieved overnight. For sure some happen quicker than others.

We are harsher on ourselves because we are always looking more critically at our team. The likes of Brighton, for example, or you tell me who else (?) can have many a bad day, a heavy defeat, take their time to get where they are, and these things are not noticed. We expect ourselves to be very good all the time even after changing the system.

Time will tell whether EtH is a crazy person but I don’t blame him for trying to make a positive change at the risk of some difficult games while it beds in.

The system is not easy for players to adapt to. They have to read the game from every position and seamlessly alter the structure of the team as required on a moment to moment basis.

EtH keeps talking about the players not following the rules and if they don’t, there are problems. With repeated drilling and match practice it should improve but complicated systems are beyond some players. I don’t know which players are getting it wrong because I don’t know all the rules but it is not running like it should at all. At the moment, I would say it might not be the system that is the fundamental problem but the execution.

If the system cannot be properly executed after a few months then you either have to replace the players who are failing or change the system. I think EtH is a blend of idealism and pragmatism. He wants to play a certain way but will adapt if it’s not working. You would have to be quite crazy to abandon all plans after two games. I think a dozen games would be a sensible marker.

 

[Pronewbie]

This team look pretty under cooked I don't know what the heck we were doing preseason .

I think we're seeing some spill-over effect of the messed up tour schedule, with the constant travelling and splitting up of teams. Eriksen in the US openly stated to MUTV that he doesn't like the preseason schedule.

 

[glazed]

We should also remember that he wanted to buy Gakpo last January. He can't be trusted to spend any more money

We don't really know the ins and outs of it. We clearly have a terrible scouting and acquisition department distorted by years of toxic Glazernomic spreadsheet based logic. He's right not to trust that system but he can't be expected to do it all himself.

Fundamemtally I have more faith in ETH than the club. My biggest worry is that he will get fed up with it and quit if the Glazers stay.

 

[Jacob]

After a full season and a preseason, you'd expect to see a team that at least has some consistency in tactics and performance.

 

[Jeffthered]

Isn’t that exactly what has changed? The last 12 months we’ve signed Malacia, Antony, Mount, Martinez, Hojlund, Onana etc all who are on the rise or not yet past their peak.

Only Casemiro and Eriksen would be considered older signings who’ve perhaps peaked.

Meanwhile we’ve allowed De Gea, Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba etc all leave.

I want the change to happen faster but pretending there hasn’t been a shift in the recruitment approach seems to be one thing we can lay off.

There are no direct comparisons but the Arteta one is most interesting in my opinion. Arsenal we’re very much in a similar place as a big club underachieving. He won a trophy in his first year but in general not as much progress as they hoped. They made a clear change in the recruitment side as well. But it still took 3-4 seasons to see a really big step forward and even then Arteta might not be a good enough coach.

You know, you're absolutely right, so I acknowledge that... not the most balanced post I have dropped, so one has to put their hands up. The transfer policy has changed, improved. But, but.. the point I think I should have made, was the fact that we seem to be 'behind the curve' as it were with signings. Other teams identify and pursue players with an efficiency that we simply do not seem to have. That, I do not understand, and I wonder why? I just feel our brand is 'tainted' in negotiations. Maybe I'm wrong, but why can Newcastle seem to identify players such as Guimeres, clearly a cracking midfield player, and we cannot? Why can Brighton identify not only good, emerging players, but players that fit a clear, very clear role... and we cannot?

There is a reason for this, it is no coincidence, it has been happening for almost a decade now. Of course, not all our signings are poor, but our trasfer policy has been generally disastrous at times, and this is now resulted in the problems we have. We have players who aren't right for the club, and we can't sell them. And can't get any in.

Very annoying, and you do not see such an operation at the clubs I mentioned in my original post.

 

[OrcaFat]

After a full season and a preseason, you'd expect to see a team that at least has some consistency in tactics and performance.

For a start EtH has deliberately acquired players to facilitate a change of tactics so I wouldn’t expect it to be consistent with last season. He’s trying to push us forward from last season by doing something different.

 

[r0663664]

Think the reason why everyone, myself included, are annoyed is because last season we looked like we had some semblance of a foundation at least to build on by just improving the quality of personnel but pre-season and first two games is looking like we have gone back to square one and that is very frustrating.

If these two performances were his first two matches in charge people would be more understanding but this is after a full season and two pre-seasons with most of these players. We need to start kicking on now not regressing. He has spent close to £400m on his players. The club has paid way over the odds for his players on his insistence and that overspending is a big reason why we're in FFP mess right now. So he needs to start making it work now. No excuses.

The only excuse left for him to rest on is the fact that some useful players (Mainoo, Hojlund, Amad) are out due to injury and are still to come into the squad and this is moving key players (basically Rashford) out of position. But once those players come in, there better be significant improvement or he will be staring down the barrel pretty quickly. We cannot afford to miss out on CL football again.

This is a norm, finishing top 4 then missing out next season. I expect us to struggle this season and miss top 4 maybe missing European football. Only then United can concentrate PL without distraction from Europe game. Repeat and rinse, year in year out. I won't spend my time staying up late to watch a single game. Just not worth it, you only get frustration watching. Come back 2 years later, maybe there is a new manager in town.

 

[soapythecat]

ETH must and should shoulder most of the blame the performances pre season and last 2 games. We have looked poor throughout with little to take positives from. He has failed to address the glaring midfield and scoring inadequacies, whilst leaving in game changes way to late to even salvage a draw.
We’ve started this season with the same lack of threat up front and our midfield is getting turned inside out by any opposition.
I’ve got to admit, after last seasons hanging on in games to what we are still seeing - I don’t see what ETH is doing to make his position a long term stable project.

 

[kaku06]

@Amadaeus you forgot to log out of your burner account.

Oh you are funny. Don’t you associate me with that lunatic. I was never poch in, I was torn between the two but I was led to believe that Ten hag is far the better choice and is the right man. So i trusted the caf and was all in, buzzing when we got him thinking that we finally got a world class manager who will take us to the top by implementing his philosophy which would see us dominate teams with distinct style, patterns of play and what not. Yet here we are looking as disjointed as ever, playing ole ball and getting dominated by every team.

 

[thepurplewizard]

Can we all take a moment to calm down?

The club is rotten to its very core. Until the Glazers are gone it will be a rinse and repeat cycle.

SAF masked the Glazers short comings and in reality they were there for us all to see toward the end. Yes, SAF won the League before bowing out...but it wasn't a squad built for the future. The Glazer rot was already set in.

ETH is doing a fantastic job. The whole squad needs to be revamped and that won't take two seasons, it will take 3-5 seasons including the club being sold and restructured.

Top, top players don't believe in the United "project" because there is no "project" under the Glazer regime!

ETH has been given money, yes, but what top player or top youth player wants to come to be in the battle for top 4 cycle?

ETH has given us some great depth to build upon in the coming seasons. These will be the up and down years akin to when SAF arrived.

If we stick with him, even when the club sales, I think we will make our way back to the top.

ETH signings so far if we look at them for what they are...

Casemiro - Stop Gap, instantly solidified a position we lacked. Mainoo the heir to this position?

Antony - Yes, could be an expensive flop, granted, he doesn't seem to be grasping life in the PL at all, but we haven't got a CF to thrive off his football, Sancho the same tbf.

Eriksen - Another stop gap, did we really want to continue with the McFred pivot??

Martinez - Looked like a world beater last season, coming back after a long injury lay off, trust he will be back to his best, needs a fast CB next to him to compliment - similar to how Rio and Vidic complimented eachother.

Onana - Can we yet agree, even after two games, that it is great to see a commanding, modern day goalkeeper? This could turn out to be a fantastic signing and will get us playing better football.

Mount - This will be a depth signing, somebody to bring off the bench or play in games where Bruno NEEDS a rest, without loosing too much quality.

Hojlund - Prospect, we had/have one, that we cannot talk about, that should have been the future! But this guy looks great, watching our first two games you can see we are crying out for Hojlund to fill the Rashford position and I think it he was involved he would have his first three United goals already.

We have also removed a lot of the deadwood and dress that should have NEVER been signed for United in the first place. I'm sure if we all had our own way the club would have only kept 3-4 players and released the rest, promoted from youth and dove deep into the transfer market.

We need a bit of calm and understanding, back the manager and back the players. We are building something, it will be slow but there are signs it will get there.

You can see already that we have been training our new patterns of play to include a proper CF and Rashford just isn't that.

Amrabat and Pavard, are they real targets? Who knows. But it is similar to last year, two poor first games, back into the market.

I wouldn't be surprised if our XI going forward is

Onana

Pavard
Varane
Martinez
Shaw

Casemiro

Amrabat
Bruno

Antony
Hojlund
Rashford

and fingers crossed, we start to see the ETH vision come through even more!

 

[BluesJr]

Not having a defined style is killing him. He changed at the beginning of last season due to the disastrous results but if he hadn’t we might be in a better place now.

 

[In Rainbows]

Oh you are funny. Don’t you associate me with that lunatic. I was never poch in, I was torn between the two but I was led to believe that Ten hag is far the better choice and is the right man. So i trusted the caf and was all in, buzzing when we got him thinking that we finally got a world class manager who will take us to the top by implementing his philosophy which would see us dominate teams with distinct style, patterns of play and what not. Yet here we are looking as disjointed as ever, playing ole ball and getting dominated by every team.

Poch's football was crap too

 

[OrcaFat]

You know, you're absolutely right, so I acknowledge that... not the most balanced post I have dropped, so one has to put their hands up. The transfer policy has changed, improved. But, but.. the point I think I should have made, was the fact that we seem to be 'behind the curve' as it were with signings. Other teams identify and pursue players with an efficiency that we simply do not seem to have. That, I do not understand, and I wonder why? I just feel our brand is 'tainted' in negotiations. Maybe I'm wrong, but why can Newcastle seem to identify players such as Guimeres, clearly a cracking midfield player, and we cannot? Why can Brighton identify not only good, emerging players, but players that fit a clear, very clear role... and we cannot?

There is a reason for this, it is no coincidence, it has been happening for almost a decade now. Of course, not all our signings are poor, but our trasfer policy has been generally disastrous at times, and this is now resulted in the problems we have. We have players who aren't right for the club, and we can't sell them. And can't get any in.

Very annoying, and you do not see such an operation at the clubs I mentioned in my original post.

Regarding signings, I think you might have gone a bit far with your assessments of other clubs’ signings. You can pick out a few successes but still realise that nearly all of these guys aren’t as good as they seem from afar. Put them under the Utd microscope and many failings will be revealed. A good signing for Newcastle would probably not be good enough for us.

But I agree it would be good if the players we signed were better than they are (preferably world beaters).

 

[DJ_21]

He needs a good season this year because his stubbornness could lead him to the exit. Especially if we’re bought out, New owners won’t be so kind. I don’t want him gone obviously but makes me wonder who the next manager would be… we’ve literally been through so many different style of plays and personalities. The Brighton manager is going to go to a big club sooner or later.

 

[Leftback99]

Recruitment was the downfall of previous managers, in particular ignoring the midfield. This is looking like going the same way again.

 

[andersj]

He makes a few Benitez-ish calls.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

What I don't understand about the formation and performance is casemiros position in the press. Mount and Bruno run around up in the final third to put the opposition under pressure and as soon as we have someone trapped then Casemiro dives into the situation to win the ball, once he's committed and the opposition beats the press that's when they break.
Casemiro needs to sit right back and shield the back 4, I can't understand why he's so far forward it's genuinely bizarre. Rashford of course dosent help much with his ineffective press which means the midfield have to work even harder. I think it can work but it's just a bit of a mess currently.