Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Jev]

I think he's a good player but maybe not quite as good as has been made out to be

Certainly has made a lot of baffling decisions that did not turn out to be strokes of genius.

 

[Widow]

We're in EtH second season and it's still hard to see exactly how he wants us to play. We look to have no pattern/plan or idea what to do with the ball far too often.

 

[The Mitcher]

We had a stonewall penalty turned down in the 1st half at 0-0 which could have been a game changer but ya sackable performance

That is not really relevant to the team then going on to play utter wank.

 

[Red00012]

I think that's the wrong of way of looking at, we keep deluding ourselves with how it's a process and it takes time etc but no true club with ambition acts like that, case in point is how long it took city and psg to dominate their respective leagues and how Chelsea seemingly cleaned house in 3 transfer windows.

And as irresponsible it was look at how barca reacted last season, no other major club's fan base keeps deluding themselves the way we do I feel.

You can’t compare City and Chelsea bottomless pit with us . We are literally waiting for players to leave to buy players

 

[The Mitcher]

I'm extremely critical of ETH 's approach to recruitment this summer and setting his team so far this season, but Hugill's done nothing in his lower league appearances to suggest he can step up any time soon. Not sure about Sancho as a false 9 but he'd probably still work better if AM's out and RH still isn't fit, in allowing Rashford to operate from the left, compared to a player who neither has physique nor seemingly clever movement to compensate for it.

Hoijlund has shown nothing either, but we spent 70 mil on him. You don't know until you play them.

 

[thegregster]

Hahahaha!!! Oh wait you’re being serious?

Ole’s ‘style’ was for the team to fumble around for 87mins and then hope that someone, anyone, would have a moment of magic to sneak a 1-0!

All the while he signed players that weren’t worth half of their transfer fees and left us with a toxic dressing room and a squad so devoid of depth and talent that it’ll take years to reset!

Yet he was still able to win away games v teams in the top half. He even won away to City pre covid. What does that tell us about ETH?

 

[AndySmith1990]

You can’t compare City and Chelsea bottomless pit with us . We are literally waiting for players to leave to buy players

We've spent well over a billion in a decade. We can absolutely compare ourselves to City and Chelsea.

 

[OrcaFat]

I though recently that it is funny that for all his spending Guardiola only once spent more on a player than EtH spend on Antony (Grealish), and that was 5 years after taking charge and multiple titles won.

True. But he spent a ton of money in the first couple of years getting players he wanted and quite a lot of them expensive and probably, when adjusted for transfer fee inflation (not regular inflation), in the same ball park as Antony. In any case it’s more that Pep would not try to get more out of our players he would just change them. Great manager.

 

[Dec9003]

I didn't say throw.

What’s the difference between throwing and sacrificing matches?

 

[podurban2]

I think Roy Keane summed it up pretty well.

 

[The Mitcher]

I think Roy Keane summed it up pretty well.

Well what did he say?

 

[OrcaFat]

I feel like I’m saying this again and again after every year. Yes Liverpool and City needed some time to acclimatise to Klopp and Guardiola but the improvements, the changes and the demands they made to the team we so visible from the get go. Yes they still needed players I’m not denying that. But where is our improvement ? Why are teams like Liverpool and City look well drilled. Even when they are bad they are good enough. Our lows are relegation level and our highs are not that dominant. When did we last eviscerate a team? Like not even give them time to breathe?

Not really.

 

[AshRK]

We have been awful in the first 2 games but people who want him gone or are suggesting that are idiots. He is not going anywhere and neither should he.

 

[Raees]

We had a stonewall penalty turned down in the 1st half at 0-0 which could have been a game changer but ya sackable performance

What I mean is that this type of performance gives off the smell that there is a lot that needs to be worked on and I wonder if there is enough in this squad and in the manager to transform this side into the levels of a City. Obviously no one in their right mind would sack him on that game but he doesn’t look as secure in that role after a performance like that… many blindly saw him as a messiah type and that would have rocked the faith of many. He won’t get benefit of the doubt if by end of season we still playing in a similar ilk.

 

[Bobcat]

It has noting to do with pressure i agree but also i think it is far deeper than just the manager,

Remember Blockbuster video rental? That is United now, living on a reputation and previous market share with no new ideas or innovations, competing against the Netflix, Prime, Disney's of this world. We are a middle table team way overarching, we try to buy our way out of trouble but the people making those decisions are not qualified or anyway near the level of our competitors. I have heard countless times that United is too big to fall, that is fallacy, there is countless companies that thought the same in the past.

Our only real hope has always been new owners as that is where real change begins no matter who it may be, until that day we will have to endure unfortunately.

Its not really the same though. Blockbuster and Netflix provided the same service, but the techonlogical platform was completely different, and the latter won because it had a massive techonlogical advantage. City, RM and Bayern still have to abide by the same rules as we do, they just do it better.

I hate the Glazers as much as the next United fan, but they are not involved in the day to day running of the club and ETH should be held to the same standards as any manager and player before them

 

[Red00012]

What I mean is that this type of performance gives off the smell that there is a lot that needs to be worked on and I wonder if there is enough in this squad and in the manager to transform this side into the levels of a City. Obviously no one in their right mind would sack him on that game but he doesn’t look as secure in that role after a performance like that… many blindly saw him as a messiah type and that would have rocked the faith of many. He won’t get benefit of the doubt if by end of season we still playing in a similar ilk.

If our top 9 away record Continues I think questions will be asked .

 

[FrantikChicken]

Well what did he say?

He said Man Utd are the new Spurs

 

[Licha-Vidic]

He. Needs. To. Drop. Bruno.

That's what ails of this team. We need to shift away from being a transition team.

The plan cant be, press hurriedly win the ball then release the ball early to rashford or the striker nearby.

This is what brings confusion to the team.
He needs the balls to change the trajectory of the club. A very decisive period for the club

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It's not all on the managers for sure, the whole culture of giving managers everything they want is a big part.

Another big part is building an attacking system around two very low quality building blocks in Rashford and Bruno. Yeah they're capable of lots of world class moments but they're a net negative in any sort of possession and build up game.

Cannot believe he started Garnacho again either after the Wolves shambles. The stubbornness is scary and will cost him the job in the end.

I agree with the first part. I even argued, before TH set his foot at OT, that any manager must be surrounded with a team of experts who will delegate responsibilities and allow the manager to focus on training the first team.

But i maintain that, he didn't get a say on Rashford-Bruno. I believe that it was a prerequisite to get the job that the team would have to be built around these two. For Solskjaer, it was probably Martial-Rashford with the ridiculous contracts they were handed back in 2019. I'm not saying it's either right or wrong, i just feel that's what's going on. It was very alarming how quickly Solskjaer abandoned any notion of high-pressing, possession football in favour of a low-block/hit on the counter approach. It's also very alarming that, after a whole season, you will struggle to find the tiniest bits of the Dutch school in the way we play under ETH. Again, in favour of a very direct approach.

It's a difficult discussion with no 100% right or wrong answers. As i said, the only two managers who could get everybody behind them and force a complete rebuild in the space of 3–4 seasons are currently managing Liverpool and City.

 

[always_hoping]

Too soon in the season yet to be making any big judgements on the team or manager. Midfield getting the most criticism but its In both boxes that needs the most improvement, gave up plenty of opportunities against Wolves whom was toothless and both goals conceded today was very preventable. Better in creating chances today but simply not clinical enough.

 

[Trex]

Because he has never coached Casemiro and Mount before. He needs a DoF as he seems to know feck all when it comes to transfers

I don't think it takes a genuis to realize that Casemiro and Mount weren't the players that ran the show in possession for their respective teams. I think ETH has his ideas but whatever it is its not working. I hope it does because this would be what ultimately decides his fate. I don't see how he gets bailed out of this except we sign someone before the window closes.
How hard can it be to get it right ffs, a club like united with all its resources.

 

[Man of Leisure]

Well what did he say?

Called us "desperate" and we're the "new Tottenham"

 

[Devil81]

We're in EtH second season and it's still hard to see exactly how he wants us to play. We look to have no pattern/plan or idea what to do with the ball far too often.

I'm a big fan of ETH but I did expect something more watchable that what we currently have.

I also can't understand his subs at time, Garnacho and Antony needed to be pulled at half time today. Even when they scored they remained on for too long.

 

[The Mitcher]

I don't think it takes a genuis to realize that Casemiro and Mount weren't the players that ran the show in possession for their respective teams. I think ETH has his ideas but whatever it is its not working. I hope it does because this would be what ultimately decides his fate. I don't see how he gets bailed out of this except we sign someone before the window closes.
How hard can it be to get it right ffs, a club like united with all its resources.

ETH believes his own hype, that he can turn water into wine. He's not playing to his team's strengths because he thinks he can change them into something they're not.

 

[Zora]

We can sack the sexy bald man but then what? The next manager will face the same issues under this regime.

We have no structure or at least, not a modern footballing structure that every other club seems to have.

We’re 90s Liverpool. We spend a fortune on players but nothing sticks. It all needs ripping up and starts at the top.

 

[sparx99]

This is what I am concerned about. There seems a sense of dispondency amongst the players. Newcastle, Spurs, Villa, Brighton.. even Brentford ffs.. all these teams (players) and fans look like a: they know exactly what is expected of them and b: they are genuinely looking forward to the season.

None of our players, (aside maybe the keeper.....) seem to be clear on what they should be doing, the fans don't know what to expect, and none of the players look happy.

I hope they tear into each other this week, and if there is fall out, so be it. Because we will get dismantled by decent teams. Spurs won easily. Easily.

Spurs did not win easily. We bossed the first 30-35 mins and should’ve scored at least once. We likely should’ve had a penalty as well. At that stage the attempts were something like 6-0 in our favour.

Spurs started the second half well and got the lead. That’s the big moment in the game because it shifted the dynamics from a more even contest since the 35th minute to one where they had the confidence and we had to chase the game. Even then Antony nearly equalise right away.

The big thing to me is that teams realise we have so little goal threat that they can take chances. I don’t have belief in any of them to get more than 10 league goals this season. Rashford and Bruno have managed it in the past but you can’t hang your hat on them.

If Danny Welbeck can form part of a potent attacking unit for Brighton then there isn’t really any excuse for us. I do have belief in ETH but at the moment he’s got a lot to prove because the likes of De Zerbi are massively showing him up. I don’t think Enciso, Ferguson, Mitouma, Welbeck, March etc would be performing the way they are for Utd and that’s a huge concern.

 

[The Mitcher]

Called us "desperate" and we're the "new Tottenham"

He's not wrong, just wish he'd have said more about ETH.

 

[Pscholes18]

Well what did he say?

United are easy to play against, Rashford is a sulky lazy shite, Bruno is shite, no leadership.

 

[TommyDocYears]

We're in EtH second season and it's still hard to see exactly how he wants us to play. We look to have no pattern/plan or idea what to do with the ball far too often.

The guys a bluffer . He’s spent big money on players from Ajax who let’s be honest are not good enough , the disrespect he has shown to the club captain , the keeper and one of the greatest players ever is off the scale .. why would any top class player want to play under him ? He’s constantly saying players are “ not playing to the rules “ ..he stands on the touch line like a headmaster scowling but from what I have seen not actually making decisions that change the game…. Reminds me of the post Busby - Pre Fergie era .. many are called few succeed.

 

[Red the Bear]

He. Needs. To. Drop. Bruno.

That's what ails of this team. We need to shift away from being a transition team.

The plan cant be, press hurriedly win the ball then release the ball early to rashford or the striker nearby.

This is what brings confusion to the team.
He needs the balls to change the trajectory of the club. A very decisive period for the club

He just made him the captain, he's not going to do that.

 

[Dec9003]

Of course we're miles off, people just need to stop wanting to rip it up again so quickly.

This isn't Moyes or Ole where we knew they were never good enough, or toxic Jose, this is a manager it worth giving some proper time to, more so given what he started with, and what has gone on at the club since he came in.

We don’t know that for certain, as someone posted our last away win vs another top 6 club came under Ole. His away record is deeply concerning, it’s half the matches we play. He started with an imbalanced squad and seems to have contributed to the mess with his signings.

 

[Baxquux]

Hoijlund has shown nothing either, but we spent 70 mil on him. You don't know until you play them.

Hojlund's played international senior mens football (and done well so far.) His goal record may not be dazzling but at least he scored them in, let say, roughly 4th best league in Europe, and at a decent goals per minutes rate. He wasn't great in every game, by all accounts, but he still bossed experienced international-level defenders; he's very quick, he's strong (much more physically developed than Hugill, for one), not for a youth player but for a footballer full stop. His movement is known to be good, even if he's obviously still raw.

I'm not saying we should just sell Hugill for 500k now, but at least loan him out (maybe across different levels for 2 seasons, like Kane had at Tottenham when he was a youngster) or give him another season being coached and building up his strength and starting to hone his game before introducing him for cup games. Just domming youth-football isn't enough, otherwise someone like Jose Baxter would have been better than Wayne Rooney for Everton, Ravel Morrison could have skivved training (like he did) and been undisciplined/off the rails in his personal habits (not entirely his fault, i'm aware) and still run the United midfield for ten years rather than have had the career he's had. The step up is huge, even from u-23 to seniors.

 

[Oldyella]

So do we think we will see similar to last season's poor start and additional funds being released?

This is going to be a rough season if nothing else changes.

 

[OrcaFat]

It doesn't matter. It became evident from last season the number one thing we need by a country mile is a striker of such calibre, and the only one available this summer was Kane. I no longer think signing him alone would make us title challengers (I used to think exactly that) -- but today for starters, if we had signed him he would have slotted one home at least when we were creating decent chances before the break.

Taking chances is absolutely critical. At one point today we had 15 attempts vs their 4 (or something). We had a few decent chances. We have to score some of these if we’re going to win.

Teams often win games with only a few shots, sometimes only one. We often have more attempts than the team that beats us. Liverpool scored seven from (if I recall) about eight attempts when they smashed us.

Clinical striking is essential.

If we scored one or two in the first half this game against spurs would have been completely different. So, imo, you were not too far wrong to suggest that a Kane quality striker in this team would make us challengers. If you score goals you win games.

 

[RunTheTrap]

I'm not sure why Ten Hag has decided to follow the dual 8/10s system when he doesn't have the players for it. It's like he saw what Pep and Arteta were doing and said “Yep, let me try that out”.

Mount-Casemiro-Bruno midfield and no fullbacks tucking inside is amateur stuff. You have a 32-year-old trying to down a midfield by himself, whilst the two gunslingers on either side of him try to out-hero ball each other. Another midfielder who can offer some semblance of control needs to come in, and a shift to a double pivot would help alleviate Casemiro's struggles. I would look to move Mount to RW if Antony or Sancho do not show signs of improvement.

Something like this:

Hojjund
Rashford-Bruno-Mount
Casemiro-Locatelli
Shaw-Martinez-Varane-AWB
Onana

Then you'll need to find a better right back and successors to Casemiro and Varahe next summer.

 

[Livvie]

When will people start to realise there is obviously something wrong beyond who the manager is when like 6 managers have failed despite us spending a shitload of money?

Exactly. And decent players who become just the opposite once they set foot inside a stadium that reeks of poison. It happens too often to be a coincidence.

 

[sparx99]

This is an interesting post... I was thinking along these lines during the game, that we have become a club with a tainted brand... we attract players who are no longer at their peak too often. There is a reason for that. Bayern do not. Real do not. Citeh do not. Liverpool do not. Arsenal do not. Chelsea do not. Now Newcastle, do not.
'
But we do?

Why, because that is what Man Utd Fc has become. And easy club to play for. An easy club to play against.

Lacking character, real character.

It's quite sad.

Isn’t that exactly what has changed? The last 12 months we’ve signed Malacia, Antony, Mount, Martinez, Hojlund, Onana etc all who are on the rise or not yet past their peak.

Only Casemiro and Eriksen would be considered older signings who’ve perhaps peaked.

Meanwhile we’ve allowed De Gea, Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba etc all leave.

I want the change to happen faster but pretending there hasn’t been a shift in the recruitment approach seems to be one thing we can lay off.

There are no direct comparisons but the Arteta one is most interesting in my opinion. Arsenal we’re very much in a similar place as a big club underachieving. He won a trophy in his first year but in general not as much progress as they hoped. They made a clear change in the recruitment side as well. But it still took 3-4 seasons to see a really big step forward and even then Arteta might not be a good enough coach.

 

[My only Eric]

What happened to that young, black kid that played against arsenal?

Play him instead of mount and get a Bruno replacement that can actually keep the ball under pressure.

provided the kid is available of course

Edit: Ive been made aware that using skin color is offensive, I apologize

 

[Jev]

When will people start to realise there is obviously something wrong beyond who the manager is when like 6 managers have failed despite us spending a shitload of money?

What is your theory then? Because so far, ETH has largely gotten the players he's pointed at, no questions asked, for an outlay of about 400 million. He could now, if he wanted to, field a starting 11 with eight players he bought. He's also handpicked his coaching staff. Do we think Arnold or Murtaugh is there sabotaging the training sessions? What else does a manager need to get the team playing something that just vaguely resembles a style?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

How much money do we have to spend for him to be considered backed?

IMO giving managers a blank check and telling them "sign whoever you want" isn't backing them, it's indulging them.

Backing a manager would be having a structure in place with an idea of what the team's identity should be, identifying and signing the right players for that identity and style of play, and letting the manager focus on coaching.