England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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#6's are players who don't tend to naturally peak at a young age unlike more attacking players, with the exception of Sergio Busquets who was born in his peak.

Casemiro, Rodri, Alonso, Senna, Kante, Makelele, Gattuso, Carrick, etc all didn't peak until their mid to late 20's.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Surely a good technician can do both? I.e, if he wanted to trap a ball dead at his feet or put it forward a meter or so to get it away from the defender, he can?

Long or short passing is helped by having good technique, but it not's a pre-requisite. You can have amazing range of passing whilst not having great technique. Would you class Carrick as a technician?

But back to the topic on hand, even if we use your definition of Technique, are England really worse than Spain?

Using the criteria of receiving the ball, manipulating it in contexts of passing, crossing, etc - Are the likes of Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Mainoo, Kane, Rice really worse than Rodri, Morata, Williams, Yamal and Pedri?

Ruiz is not a technician, I think we can agree on that. Excellent awareness, big engine, box to box but he's not a technical player. I don't see Saka being any less technical than Williams, and atleast for City Foden is just as good as Yamal. If we judge by their club form, Foden is far more effective than Yamal is. Pedri is the standout here as he's probably the best technician on the pitch but the England players are not that far behind.

The issue is system. Foden for Man City looks like he could explode at any moment with bits of magic, yet looks ass for England. Bellingham looks like the second coming of Christ for Madrid but spends half the games for England running around the pitch trying to get the ball. Saka has some of the most successful dribbling and assists stats in the Premier League but looks like an ineffective classical early 00's winger for England.

I don't think Spain are all that technically, and they're much below their actual era of technicians a decade ago. Their system makes their technical qualities stand out far more than England's does.

Pedro is a fantastic example. Didn't look an inch out of place playing for the highly technical Guardiola Barcelona. Looked like a passenger on the pitch sometimes for Chelsea.
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Williams appears more explosive than any player we have , that's a pretty useful technique . Rodri is as powerful as rice and dictates better and id say he's more progressive and more 2 footed . He scored with his left foot the other night .

Spain are just way better balanced imo , at the back they have 2 lefties 2 righties but all decent on the weaker foot , unai Simon is two footed .

Midfield Rodri is a righty but two footed , Ruiz is a lefty with a decent right foot and pedri iis a two footed righty , yamal is more 1 footed lefty like foden , Williams is 2 footed .

I don't think we can play like Spain without more players who can go both ways and open up both sides . They always have a pass and it happens quicker because they are more comfortable and accurate with their weaker foot .

England have a right footed keeper , he can smash it with his left , 4 right footed defenders , stones being the footballer , 3 right footed midfielders , 2 lefty wide men and kane who can finish either foot . A lot of the time , the 2 lefties get subbed for 2 more righties .

To me , unless they are all really good on their weak foot , which they aren't , they just aren't ever going to have the passing options of Spain .
 
As poor as we are, if Southgate's luck holds, there's a realistic chance of us getting to the final. It's a cup competition, you don't have to be great you just have to do enough.

We cannot look past anyone. Switzerland have been much better than we have, for example. But if we s-thouse our way to a 1-0 against them, there's no reason we can't do it to anyone else on our side of the draw.
 
England will probably luck their way to the final, but it's a pretty pathetic way to go about winning. There's so much quality in the squad, pissed up the wall for no reason.

Maybe Gareth will find a pair and go for it. Shaw and Walker at CB, Saka and Trent at fullback, 2 controlling midfielders, and a front 4 with fullbacks constantly holding the width. I'd actually watch then.
 
Camilo said:
England will probably luck their way to the final, but it's a pretty pathetic way to go about winning. There's so much quality in the squad, pissed up the wall for no reason.

Maybe Gareth will find a pair and go for it. Shaw and Walker at CB, Saka and Trent at fullback, 2 controlling midfielders, and a front 4 with fullbacks constantly holding the width. I'd actually watch then.
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Playing 2 full backs in central defence when you have CBs in your squad would be fecking idiotic.
 
AfonsoAlves said:
Players like Rodri don't come naturally, they are nurtured with huge amounts of tactical coaching given to them.

Their positioning, their decision making, when to press, when to back off, when to foul, etc is not something you are "talented" at naturally but it requires a lot of guidance.

The Rodri we saw at Atletico Madrid is not the same Rodri we have at city. Rodri at Atletico was supremely talented but didn't have the decisiveness or the calmness he has at City.
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Exactly Rodri beforehand is a totally different composition of player to the one at City.

You have to take Pep's influence into account.
 
I can assure you there isn't an English person on the planet that would give a feck how we have played if we won it.
 
Don't know if he's pulling sources from his ass but Goldbridge reckons southgate is considering going with a back 5.
 
Camilo said:
England will probably luck their way to the final, but it's a pretty pathetic way to go about winning. There's so much quality in the squad, pissed up the wall for no reason.

Maybe Gareth will find a pair and go for it. Shaw and Walker at CB, Saka and Trent at fullback, 2 controlling midfielders, and a front 4 with fullbacks constantly holding the width. I'd actually watch then.
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Walker and Shaw as CB's......ehm what :lol:
 
DixieDean said:
Don't know if he's pulling sources from his ass but Goldbridge reckons southgate is considering going with a back 5.
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A few have suggested it , it wouldn't surprise me , he's lost guehi , is shaw fit or not , and Switzerland play that way .

Germany didn't get much joy against them with a more balanced 4 at the back system,
So hoping this thing that Southgate has been playing will suddenly click against them is optimistic .

The worry is , even if he does change , it won't be some tactical example of how to use your squad and utilize different profiles to suit a system . It will be his normal 11 , just given different jobs .
 
Kirk lazarus said:
A few have suggested it , it wouldn't surprise me , he's lost guehi , is shaw fit or not , and Switzerland play that way .

Germany didn't get much joy against them with a more balanced 4 at the back system,
So hoping this thing that Southgate has been playing will suddenly click against them is optimistic .

The worry is , even if he does change , it won't be some tactical example of how to use your squad and utilize different profiles to suit a system . It will be his normal 11 , just given different jobs .
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Yeah, probably! I don't think he will drop foden, whatever system he uses.
 
You have to wonder how the City and Arsenal players and Bellingham react to Gareth's 'coaching' when they are used to their club managers intensity and detail. I'm pretty sure Bellingham thinks Southgate's a cnut but is playing his way for the shirt and personal glory. At least Venables, Hoddle, Robson, Sven, the Hat were good, successful coaches....I've no idea how most of the players respect GS's dull safety nonsense.
 
DixieDean said:
Don't know if he's pulling sources from his ass but Goldbridge reckons southgate is considering going with a back 5.
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Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa
Trent Mainoo Rice Saka
Bellingham Foden
Kane​

That setup has a far stronger look about it that what he’s gone with so far.
 
Switzerland are another team which plays 3/5 at the back.

England are clueless against teams who use that formation.
 
Grinner said:
You have to wonder how the City and Arsenal players and Bellingham react to Gareth's 'coaching' when they are used to their club managers intensity and detail. I'm pretty sure Bellingham thinks Southgate's a cnut but is playing his way for the shirt and personal glory. At least Venables, Hoddle, Robson, Sven, the Hat were good, successful coaches....I've no idea how most of the players respect GS's dull safety nonsense.
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They will respect dull safety nonsense because it got them within a couple penalty misses from winning the last euros and taking France to ET in Qatar. The issue is how they would respect Southgate clearly having no clue about his team
Grinner said:
Drop Kane for Toney. Kane has been fecking dreadful.
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That is insane
 
giorno said:
They will respect dull safety nonsense because it got them within a couple penalty misses from winning the last euros and taking France to ET in Qatar. The issue is how they would respect Southgate clearly having no clue about his team

That is insane
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You clearly haven't been watching our games. Kane has been the worst player by a mile.
 
Grinner said:
You clearly haven't been watching our games. Kane has been the worst player by a mile.
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He's still Harry Kane and you're proposing replacing him with Ivan fecking Toney. Being capable of a single moment of brilliance matters way more at this stage than playing better across the game
 
giorno said:
He's still Harry Kane and you're proposing replacing him with Ivan fecking Toney. Being capable of a single moment of brilliance matters way more at this stage than playing better across the game
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Nonsense, he's done little but get in the fecking way of better players and compress everything. Toney wins aerial duels, scares defenders and doesn't try and be Roy of the Rovers and drop deep to spray shit passes about. Toney winning balls for our wingers to run onto and keeping team shape will see us go less than 94 minutes for an effort on target against the Swizz.
 
giorno said:
He's still Harry Kane and you're proposing
replacing him with Ivan fecking Toney. Being capable of a single moment of brilliance matters way more at this stage than playing better across the game
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I can't see him being dropped , but I do think he's not quite at it , he looks very slow .

I wouldn't mind seeing something. a bit different in the way he's using the subs . If Kane is subbed ( he has been ) bring Wharton on to play with rice , Bellingham up top ( the guys a goal scorer with energy ) and put mainoo at 10 . Have a look at that for 10 mins before bringing Watkins or toney on for mainoo and move Bellingham back to where he was ( or the sub can be for him if hes knackered ) .
 
diarm said:

Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa
Trent Mainoo Rice Saka
Bellingham Foden
Kane​

That setup has a far stronger look about it that what he’s gone with so far.
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Not sure about Saka as left wing back. He did not look that comfortable when he was moved there in the last game.
Gordon would be more effective there.
 
Buster15 said:
Not sure about Saka as left wing back. He did not look that comfortable when he was moved there in the last game.
Gordon would be more effective there.
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Yeah I’d agree with that. I just don’t think Southgate would drop Saka
 
BabySinclair said:
Walker and Shaw as CB's......ehm what :lol:
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Better than two big donkeys. It's not like you're going to come across a well oiled attack in 99% of international matches, so why not play two footballers with solid recovery pace and passing ability...
 
Replacing better players individually with weaker ones (Kane-Toney) surely won't help England. It isn't like Southgate has laid out a solid gameplan to maximize his team's quality and it's failing because Kane is sticking out like the sore thumb. Every single player is playing below their ability, and they are keeping themselves afloat due to their individual brilliance. You could make the same argument for every single player (bar Mainoo who's really been sticking out but in positive terms), not just Kane. Replacing Kane with Toney would not be a good change for England. Replacing Southgate with a traffic cone would probably do more for them. At least players would organize themselves differently.

I was very wrong in thinking that England is like France, in that they choose to suffer. While i was right about France, they are controlling the games with minimum risk involved and it is difficult to even come close to their goal, which has mostly been their trademark ever since Deschamps took over, it is different with Southgate. He truly believes there is no other way.

Players have obviously bought into his philosophy though (or at least some among them), otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Pickford celebrating every ball his side had won and Slovakia had lost in their encounter few days ago. Which is ridiculous really.

Imagine Spain going 2:1 up against Georgia and giving up ball completely, with Simon asking fans for support every time Le Normand knocks the ball into the corner kick.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
Replacing better players individually with weaker ones (Kane-Toney) surely won't help England. It isn't like Southgate has laid out a solid gameplan to maximize his team's quality and it's failing because Kane is sticking out like the sore thumb. Every single player is playing below their ability, and they are keeping themselves afloat due to their individual brilliance. You could make the same argument for every single player (bar Mainoo who's really been sticking out but in positive terms), not just Kane. Replacing Kane with Toney would not be a good change for England. Replacing Southgate with a traffic cone would probably do more for them. At least players would organize themselves differently.

I was very wrong in thinking that England is like France, in that they choose to suffer. While i was right about France, they are controlling the games with minimum risk involved and it is difficult to even come close to their goal, which has mostly been their trademark ever since Deschamps took over, it is different with Southgate. He truly believes there is no other way.

Players have obviously bought into his philosophy though (or at least some among them), otherwise we wouldn't be seeing Pickford celebrating every ball his side had won and Slovakia had lost in their encounter few days ago. Which is ridiculous really.

Imagine Spain going 2:1 up against Georgia and giving up ball completely, with Simon asking fans for support every time Le Normand knocks the ball into the corner kick.
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Maybe not in the Kane example, but picking the best 11 footballers on paper has never been what football is about. That only makes sense if the 11 are great and the rest are shit, which isn't the case.

The managers job by definition is to pick the right players in the right system and say the right things to get them going, I.e. manage a side, which isn't rocket science at international level because nobody has the training time to implement a style over years.

If it doesn't work as a team then you need to pick the ones that make a balanced side. Which is something so far that he's failed to address by not picking a left back for his squad and insisting on this Foden from the left idea. Also failing to get Harry Kane to do what is needed, which again, that's his job as manager, get your big names to listen.
 
Abraxas said:
Maybe not in the Kane example, but picking the best 11 footballers on paper has never been what football is about. That only makes sense if the 11 are great and the rest are shit, which isn't the case.

The managers job by definition is to pick the right players in the right system and say the right things to get them going, I.e. manage a side, which isn't rocket science at international level because nobody has the training time to implement a style over years.

If it doesn't work as a team then you need to pick the ones that make a balanced side. Which is something so far that he's failed to address by not picking a left back for his squad and insisting on this Foden from the left idea. Also failing to get Harry Kane to do what is needed, which again, that's his job as manager, get your big names to listen.
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I am not disputing any of that. It is the general principle with coaches and managers, but it can't be applied to Southgate. With his gameplan being as incoherent as it is, I am not sure there is any change he can make that will make England look like a team. Surely, minor improvements could be made, but England will not become fun to watch and dangerous all of a sudden if he replaces Kane with Toney.

If it was Sam Allardyce as a coach, to not go a level further to some better names which England surely can have, all that would make sense. But with Southgate, it would be same crap again, 100%, because that is what he is. He cannot play different than this, if he could, we'd have seen it by now.

The best he can hope for are moments of individual brilliance, and they have served him pretty well so far. I am sure he sees nothing wrong with that, and believes this is the way to go.
 
It's amazing the leeway Southgate gets really. He's paid some ridiculous salary to eventually figure out what pretty much every football fan knew long before him, that Gallagher should be replaced by Mainoo in midfield and that TAA there would be the worst of the lot. Absolute fecking moron. Also, it's so dumb to not take an alternative left-footed fullback. They don't have to be one of the best in the world. Think of the players in this tournament and some of the clubs they play for, are Chilwell or Mitchell really worth not taking? Instead he's taken a load of CBs with similar profiles like Gomez, Guehi and Konsa. Wish Southgate was being booted out tomorrow like the fecking government.
 
Bosnian_fan said:
I am not disputing any of that. It is the general principle with coaches and managers, but it can't be applied to Southgate. With his gameplan being as incoherent as it is, I am not sure there is any change he can make that will make England look like a team. Surely, minor improvements could be made, but England will not become fun to watch and dangerous all of a sudden if he replaces Kane with Toney.

If it was Sam Allardyce as a coach, to not go a level further to some better names which England surely can have, all that would make sense. But with Southgate, it would be same crap again, 100%, because that is what he is. He cannot play different than this, if he could, we'd have seen it by now.

The best he can hope for are moments of individual brilliance, and they have served him pretty well so far. I am sure he sees nothing wrong with that, and believes this is the way to go.
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Probably true that they'll never look fluid under Southgate coaching no matter who comes in, but it would help if he didn't make decisions which seems to actively work against good performance.

How can you have a right footed left back who's main quality was crossing from wide, that doesn't make any sense to me. Then have another guy ahead of him that wants to cut inside. Then tell Kane to drop deep (or not establish enough authority to convince him otherwise), then have Bellingham also running into the exact same space Foden and Kane are in.

Nothing about that setup would make sense to a good manager so he's essentially given up an entire flank and congested the middle. Now, we're assuming he's a shit attacking coach but he'd give himself half a chance by picking a balanced side which is my main point about not just picking the best XI players.
 
Southgate will switch to a back 3 against Switzerland, and I expect:

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Konsa
Trent --------- Rice ------ Mainoo -------- Saka
Foden ----- Belligham
Kane​
 
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tidraKS said:
Southgate will switch to a back 3 against Switzerland, and I expect:

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Konsa
Trent --------- Rice --------- Saka
Foden ----- Belligham
Kane​
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Probably Trippier not Saka (this is Southgate) and I’d also hope even Gareth will choose 11 players.
 
tidraKS said:
Southgate will switch to a back 3 against Switzerland, and I expect:

Pickford
Walker - Stones - Konsa
Trent --------- Rice --------- Saka
Foden ----- Belligham
Kane​
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I know Rice probably has it in him to do the defensive work of two players, but that doesn't mean we should force him to
 
diarm said:

Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa
Trent Mainoo Rice Saka
Bellingham Foden
Kane​

That setup has a far stronger look about it that what he’s gone with so far.
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That's the team I am expecting. I'd probably pick Gomez ahead of Konsa (the former has played LB on 14 occasions for Liverpool this season is is likely to be more comfortable at LCB in a three) and I'd drop Foden for Palmer. But, I think Southgate goes with the team above.
 
You can put any team out at this point, I have very little confidence that GS really knows what he's doing.
 
diarm said:

Pickford
Walker Stones Konsa
Trent Mainoo Rice Saka
Bellingham Foden
Kane​

That setup has a far stronger look about it that what he’s gone with so far.
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It will definitely be this and we will suffer from a chronic lack of width because his instructions will be that TAA and Saka are there to defend first and attack when it’s safe.
 
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