England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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The more I've listened about the game, it's obvious he's not going to change the front four the next game. He's just not. I would love to know his reasoning, but it's just mental.

He's scared to drop a big name like foden, but doesn't he realise he would get ZERO stick if he makes that call. So, what is it? He's scared to upset jude or phil's feelings? So, weird.

Sounds ridiculous, but england's only chance of winning this comp now is if Foden or bellingham were sent off and missed this game. And they could really do with Shaw getting fit. That's if he's still alive.

Edit: Edited to change injury to red card.
 
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Agree with you, if England did a manager swap with City it'd be interesting to see how both played.

Mainly we miss a ball playing GK, Pep might struggle with that.

For me England's problems are 95% tactical and coaching. All the players look like imposters compared to their club versions...
city wouldn't make the CL with southgate. 5th or 6th, I reckon. He's league one standard.
 
It doesn’t ultimately matter, if England combined their technical ability with their superior athleticism, it’s more than enough as an equaliser, but fat chance of that happening under this coaching and managerial team.
i don't think it's entirely or even mostly down to coaching. Fitness is the key
I'm not just talking about the squads here at this tournament. I'm talking about the whole talent pool. We produce so many technical players nowadays, and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon. We just need a manager who embraces these types of players.
You don't produce them where it matters most - defence and midfield, and if you do Southgate didn't call those players

Spain's midfielders are lightyears ahead of england's when it comes to first touch, ball control, weight of pass, etc..
 
The more I've listened about the game, it's obvious he's not going to change the front four the next game. He's just not. I would love to know his reasoning, but it's just mental.

He's scared to drop a big name like foden, but doesn't he realise he would get ZERO stick if he makes that call. So, what is it? He's scared to upset jude or phil's feelings? So, weird.

Sounds ridiculous, but england's only chance of winning this comp now is if Foden or bellingham gets injured. And they could really do with Shaw getting fit. That's if he's still alive.

Thanks but I would rather not wish our talented players to get injured just so others get a chance
 
Never thought I’d see the day that England fans will have so little faith in their team to beat a Switzerland in the QF of the Euros, but, here we are.
 
I would be shocked if we don't go out as well. Switzerland are playing very well. We've been well off it.

We're due on big performance, I could see us put together a good display vs Switzerland, all the pundits go back to saying we're the best team in the world (tm) then revert to type before going out to whoever in the semi's after 120 golaless minutes where Foden, Bellingham and Kane all keep running into each other like Lemmings.
 
We have a few players who are about same level as Spain technically - I would say Foden, Saka, Mainoo, Palmer, Grealish (who obviously should have gone IMO) and also would argue Shaw - but as that poster pointed out, not in the centre of midfield and defence. Rice is good and has many qualities, but he is not at that level technically and is not really a match up for Rodri. Walker was appalling on the ball yesterday. He's a great player but wow was that bad, couldn't even make 10-yard passes reliably.
 
We have a few players who are about same level as Spain technically - I would say Foden, Saka, Mainoo, Palmer, Grealish (who obviously should have gone IMO) and also would argue Shaw - but as that poster pointed out, not in the centre of midfield and defence. Rice is good and has many qualities, but he is not at that level technically and is not really a match up for Rodri. Walker was appalling on the ball yesterday. He's a great player but wow was that bad, couldn't even make 10-yard passes reliably.

Grealish did well in that cameo against Bosnia before Euros, however Guardiola has to take some blame for him not being in the squad too. Maybe he felt that Grealish wasn't pushing Doku enough for a place in XI
 

Funny thing is I have been saying if you want to play Bellingham in that 8 this is the way you would have to play. Rice is by no means a normal, play out from the back 6, he is good at interceptions and moving forward with it, but he is not the player to play out from the back with. Said for a bit I would be tempted to play similar if you want to have bellingham/foden in the team but with Gordon and Palmer, think you can still play Kane that way too, as long as he stops dropping deep. Or you play Wharton, maybe Mainoo as your 6, though Mainoo is not a 6 really either he is just better than rice.
 
In a weird way I actually like Southgate, he's done well and he's never going to get credit for it because he's a company man, he's thoughtful, he's a little anxious and he was a solid 7-8/10 player. However, he also got the job because he was the only remotely viable candidate who would actually take it. Why people think that situation will have changed dramatically after Southgate's success in the role has been met by a huge ramping up of venom and entitlement I don't know. Either we'll get another Sven/Capello who doesn't care and is thinking of their pension, some poor bastard who finished midtable in the PL and has the right passport or another FA placeholder.

I could almost understand the aggression directed at Southgate if there was some Clough-type manager pushing for the job but there really doesn't seem to be anyone that good who actually wants to manage England.
 
Let’s be honest. Even if England up their game would this team actually have the technical ability to beat this ludicrously talented Spain side? I’m rooting for England (wife’s English) but I’m trying to be realistic.
 
Let’s be honest. Even if England up their game would this team actually have the technical ability to beat this ludicrously talented Spain side? I’m rooting for England (wife’s English) but I’m trying to be realistic.

In a one off game anything can happen and England have an abundance of players who can score a goal out of nothing.

I really hope not but this tournament feels like it's got Bellinghams name on it.
 
Of course Southgate invited Ed Sheeran to today's England recovery training session. The dullest man in football invited the dullest man in pop music to lift the spirits of the England players. We're probably more depressed now going into the Swiss game.
 
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Coming home it is.
 
Just like to say that Spain's team isn't that full of technicians.

Top systems and certain styles of play can make players look far more technical than they actually are.

see: Pedro, Mascherano, Keita, Yaya Toure, etc playing for Pep's Barca. If you want the low end of the spectrum, someone like Joe Allen looked incredibly technical playing under Swansea's system.

N.Williams, Ruiz, Carjaval, Le Normand, Morata, do not have amazing technical abilities.

Pedri, Yamal, Rodri are the main technicians in the team.
 
Southgate's stock is much higher now after the other round of 16 games played out.

Portugal couldn't score against Slovenia either and the demise of Austria showed that attacking football is not worth it on tournaments.

Southgate getting that momentum now.
 
Southgate is not going to pick other players but he needs to change the shape. I would bring in TAA for Trippier and go 3-4-2-1 which would allow Bellingham and Foden to play dual 10s behind (and nearer) to Kane with the wing-backs providing width.

————————-Pickford
———Walker. Stones. Konsa.
TAA. —— Mainoo. Rice. ———Saka.
—————Bellingham. Foden.
————————-Kane.
 
Southgate is not going to pick other players but he needs to change the shape. I would bring in TAA for Trippier and go 3-4-2-1 which would allow Bellingham and Foden to play dual 10s behind (and nearer) to Kane with the wing-backs providing width.

————————-Pickford
———Walker. Stones. Konsa.
TAA. —— Mainoo. Rice. ———Saka.
—————Bellingham. Foden.
————————-Kane.
Any formation with Saka at LB (or left wing back) feels doomed to me. It just doesn't feel right.
 
England v Spain would be a complete mismatch in this tournament.

Any decent YT videos knocking around from the many tactical experts around as to what gameplan England would even attempt if they were to meet in a prospective final. I'd be interested to watch it.

Probanly be exactly the same type of game as the women’s final, only with an easier win for Spain. They’d toy with us.
 
Southgate's stock is much higher now after the other round of 16 games played out.

Portugal couldn't score against Slovenia either and the demise of Austria showed that attacking football is not worth it on tournaments.

Southgate getting that momentum now.
Of course it isn't.
 
I believe shaw is fit , I think he might have to throw him straight in . Ndoye will be a tough test but it will be for trippier on the wrong side .
 
Just like to say that Spain's team isn't that full of technicians.

Top systems and certain styles of play can make players look far more technical than they actually are.

see: Pedro, Mascherano, Keita, Yaya Toure, etc playing for Pep's Barca. If you want the low end of the spectrum, someone like Joe Allen looked incredibly technical playing under Swansea's system.

N.Williams, Ruiz, Carjaval, Le Normand, Morata, do not have amazing technical abilities.

Pedri, Yamal, Rodri are the main technicians in the team.
What defines a technician type player to you?
 
What defines a technician type player to you?

First touch, close control dribbling, deft touches, very small movements needed to perform actions.

For example, Nani was a technician. Doku/Williams/Thuram are not. Nani relied on extreme close control of the ball at his feet to dribble. The latter three rely more on their physical attributes to dribble. Nani takes more, smaller touches to get past an opponent, the latter three take fewer, larger touches.

Berbatov was a technician. Rooney was not, is another example. Rooney had a relatively large motion of action to execute something, Berbatov had a very small one.

That's not to say anything on their effectiveness. Rooney/Gerrard had relatively large motions of action and were far less technical compared to say, Arteta and Carzorla but the former were more effective players.
 
First touch, close control dribbling, deft touches, very small movements needed to perform actions.

For example, Nani was a technician. Doku/Williams/Thuram are not. Nani relied on extreme close control of the ball at his feet to dribble. The latter three rely more on their physical attributes to dribble. Nani takes more, smaller touches to get past an opponent, the latter three take fewer, larger touches.

Berbatov was a technician. Rooney was not, is another example. Rooney had a relatively large motion of action to execute something, Berbatov had a very small one.

That's not to say anything on their effectiveness. Rooney/Gerrard had relatively large motions of action and were far less technical compared to say, Arteta and Carzorla but the former were more effective players.
I think we have differing ideas on what good technique is.

Good technique isnt just small movements and close control.
Technique is the physical control of the ball, skill is the application of that control.
So with respect to a large movement being technically good lets take a situation where a defender is receiving a long ball. If they control the ball and kill it dead that can be seen as good technique. Equally if their first touch means the ball ends up a meter away from them, if its done on purpose so as to enable the defender to look up and then make a long ground or aerial pass forward that first touch is also good technique. Small motions are not the only ways to have good technique. Dribbling isnt the only area where good technique exists.
Receiving on the front foot or back foot are two different techniques and both of them can have big movements depending on the required outcome and situation. Same with receiving on the half turn, crossing, long or short passes, its not just trapping the ball or dribbling.
 
Southgate is not going to pick other players but he needs to change the shape. I would bring in TAA for Trippier and go 3-4-2-1 which would allow Bellingham and Foden to play dual 10s behind (and nearer) to Kane with the wing-backs providing width.

————————-Pickford
———Walker. Stones. Konsa.
TAA. —— Mainoo. Rice. ———Saka.
—————Bellingham. Foden.
————————-Kane.
That formation would probably benefit Kane. He often looks isolated or ends up too deep.
 
I think we have differing ideas on what good technique is.

Good technique isnt just small movements and close control.
Technique is the physical control of the ball, skill is the application of that control.
So with respect to a large movement being technically good lets take a situation where a defender is receiving a long ball. If they control the ball and kill it dead that can be seen as good technique. Equally if their first touch means the ball ends up a meter away from them, if its done on purpose so as to enable the defender to look up and then make a long ground or aerial pass forward that first touch is also good technique. Small motions are not the only ways to have good technique. Dribbling isnt the only area where good technique exists.
Receiving on the front foot or back foot are two different techniques and both of them can have big movements depending on the required outcome and situation. Same with receiving on the half turn, crossing, long or short passes, its not just trapping the ball or dribbling.

Surely a good technician can do both? I.e, if he wanted to trap a ball dead at his feet or put it forward a meter or so to get it away from the defender, he can?

Long or short passing is helped by having good technique, but it not's a pre-requisite. You can have amazing range of passing whilst not having great technique. Would you class Carrick as a technician?

But back to the topic on hand, even if we use your definition of Technique, are England really worse than Spain?

Using the criteria of receiving the ball, manipulating it in contexts of passing, crossing, etc - Are the likes of Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Mainoo, Kane, Rice really worse than Rodri, Morata, Williams, Yamal and Pedri?

Ruiz is not a technician, I think we can agree on that. Excellent awareness, big engine, box to box but he's not a technical player. I don't see Saka being any less technical than Williams, and atleast for City Foden is just as good as Yamal. If we judge by their club form, Foden is far more effective than Yamal is. Pedri is the standout here as he's probably the best technician on the pitch but the England players are not that far behind.

The issue is system. Foden for Man City looks like he could explode at any moment with bits of magic, yet looks ass for England. Bellingham looks like the second coming of Christ for Madrid but spends half the games for England running around the pitch trying to get the ball. Saka has some of the most successful dribbling and assists stats in the Premier League but looks like an ineffective classical early 00's winger for England.

I don't think Spain are all that technically, and they're much below their actual era of technicians a decade ago. Their system makes their technical qualities stand out far more than England's does.

Pedro is a fantastic example. Didn't look an inch out of place playing for the highly technical Guardiola Barcelona. Looked like a passenger on the pitch sometimes for Chelsea.
 
Agree with you, if England did a manager swap with City it'd be interesting to see how both played.

Mainly we miss a ball playing GK, Pep might struggle with that.

For me England's problems are 95% tactical and coaching. All the players look like imposters compared to their club versions...
I think the one thing missing for Pep - aside from the ball playing GK as you mentioned - is his Busquets/Rodri/Lahm here.
You don't produce them where it matters most - defence and midfield, and if you do Southgate didn't call those players

Spain's midfielders are lightyears ahead of england's when it comes to first touch, ball control, weight of pass, etc..
I think our defenders and midfielders (again, not just those called up by Southgate) are as good technically now.

The main difference, as I said above to @Mb194dc , is the specific type of midfielder in the 6 that can control games. We don't have a Rodri. Everywhere else, including more advanced midfielders, we're equal, and even beat them in some areas.

The closest player to a Rodri I've seen in the youth teams is Arsenals Charlie Patino, but that was a while ago now and I have no idea how he's progressed since.
 
I think the one thing missing for Pep - aside from the ball playing GK as you mentioned - is his Busquets/Rodri/Lahm here.

I think our defenders and midfielders (again, not just those called up by Southgate) are as good technically now.

The main difference, as I said above to @Mb194dc , is the specific type of midfielder in the 6 that can control games. We don't have a Rodri. Everywhere else, including more advanced midfielders, we're equal, and even beat them in some areas.

The closest player to a Rodri I've seen in the youth teams is Arsenals Charlie Patino, but that was a while ago now and I have no idea how he's progressed since.

Players like Rodri don't come naturally, they are nurtured with huge amounts of tactical coaching given to them.

Their positioning, their decision making, when to press, when to back off, when to foul, etc is not something you are "talented" at naturally but it requires a lot of guidance.

The Rodri we saw at Atletico Madrid is not the same Rodri we have at city. Rodri at Atletico was supremely talented but didn't have the decisiveness or the calmness he has at City.
 
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