England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
FootballHQ said:
England v Spain would be a complete mismatch in this tournament.

Any decent YT videos knocking around from the many tactical experts around as to what gameplan England would even attempt if they were to meet in a prospective final. I'd be interested to watch it.
Click to expand...
Uh, Spain woule be one of the easiest to prepare for England I think. That's not to say it would work, I think Spain are also just better overall, and it's not just an issue of managers - their players just make a lot more sense together than England's and their best don't look shattered. Saka/Bowen and Gordon wide, Mainoo-Rice in the middle, sit deep and hit long balls to exploit the pace of Gordon and Saka/Bowen in behind, build on Kane and Jude winning headers and second balls to attack quickly. Don't think England have the fitness to press and nor the quality to play through Spain's press.
Mb194dc said:
England arn't technically inferior to Spain these days
Click to expand...
Yes they are, by a lot
BarstoolProphet said:
Sit back. There were a lot of nervy moments for the rest of the ET for England. Don't understand the tactics at all, SVK offered nothing after their goal, yet they were invited into the match after going 2-1 up.
Click to expand...
They missed an open goal tap in. Not an easy one by any means, but still an open goal tap in
stefan92 said:
I am very sure that they can, as both have the versatility to play in a huge area and in different roles. This isn't a selection issue, but a lack of tactical ideas. It looks like Southgate doesn't give clear orders about who covers the central space at which time, so we see Bellingham, Foden and Kane as well all moving into the same spaces.

It's not that different from the German team fielding Wirtz, Gündogan, Musiala and Havertz as a top four. All tend to play in the same space, yet it worked reasonably well that they played together instead of getting in each others way.
Click to expand...
Gundogan doesn't really occupy the same spaces though, he drops deeper, and Musiala has the dribbling to create space anywhere. They're also obviously better instructed, look in better shape too, and most importantly they have Kroos(and Kimmich and Rudiger) moving the ball from deep

England's defensive block is really poor at that
 
Gordon and Bowen would just start a hypothetical final v Spain after a couple of sub cameos between then in the group stages? Righto.....

How would Trippier cope against Yamal and then potentially Williams coming that side as that would need a detailed tactical plan given how bad England's left side has been in this tournament.

The only plan would be England low blocking Spain to death and then trying to scramble a goal off a set piece at some stage.
 
giorno said:
Gundogan doesn't really occupy the same spaces though, he drops deeper, and Musiala has the dribbling to create space anywhere. They're also obviously better instructed
Click to expand...
That was exactly my point. Gündogan drops out of the way for Musiala/Wirtz because he clearly has got the instruction to do that, meanwhile Bellingham and Foden do just run into the same spaces as they lack these instructions from Southgate.
 
Of course bellingham foden can play together.

The question is, should they?

Bellingham as 10 with saka one one side and gordon on the other opens up the pitch and makes a drastic change to how we play all on its own.

Then,you get to bring foden on to replace bellingham and keep both fresh. I consider that a positive, but somehow we must run them both into the ground so they are fecked by the final if we get there is the sensible way to use our resources.

The team if trippier is out should be walker left back, konsa and stones, tta right back, rice.mainoo with bellingham ahead, gordon left, saka right, kane up top.

No point in suggesting anyone other than kane, its simply never going to happen.
 
Resonance said:
Of course they won't be dropped, and rightfully so, they scored the goals that got us through. Foden and Saka on the otherhand, both should be dropped for Gordon and Palmer.
Click to expand...

And that is the classic English attitude, that will ultimately lead to is being knocked out in a drab and dismal fashion.

It's not t working we are not playing well, we are not creating chances. We absolutely deserved to get knocked out, a good Overhead kick from a long throw flick on, and a free header from 3 yards out after a half clearance and a mis it shot, may have rescued but it does not excuse the 360 or so minutes of mostly dross that they have produced so far this tournament.

Jude too many touches Bellingham operating in the area that Harry penalty kane likes to operate isn't working. If we are strugglng to put it on Serbia, Slovenia and Slovakia than how on earth do you think we are going to do against the tougher opponents coming our way.
 
Longshanks said:
And that is the classic English attitude, that will ultimately lead to is being knocked out in a drab and dismal fashion.

It's not t working we are not playing well, we are not creating chances. We absolutely deserved to get knocked out, a good Overhead kick from a long throw flick on, and a free header from 3 yards out after a half clearance and a mis it shot, may have rescued but it does not excuse the 360 or so minutes of mostly dross that they have produced so far this tournament.

Jude too many touches Bellingham operating in the area that Harry penalty kane likes to operate isn't working. If we are strugglng to put it on Serbia, Slovenia and Slovakia than how on earth do you think we are going to do against the tougher opponents coming our way.
Click to expand...

Nope, its Southgate's complete lack of tactical nous that will see us knocked out. One of Foden or Bellingham has to be dropped to help fix the balance of this team and on current showing, Foden has to go.
 
Longshanks said:
Overhead kick from a long throw flick on, and a free header from 3 yards out after a half clearance and a mis it shot, may have rescued but it does not excuse....
Click to expand...

In knockout competitions it excuses everything... if it gets you through to the next round.
Sh**e for the whole game is wiped off with winning goals. If you want to avoid the 'if you cant win don't lose' mentally, it should be a knockout competition from the beginning.
 
FootballHQ said:
Gordon and Bowen would just start a hypothetical final v Spain after a couple of sub cameos between then in the group stages? Righto.....
Click to expand...
That's what Southgate should do, not necessarily what he would do. But England don't really have the option to play in any other against Spain right now

How would Trippier cope against Yamal and then potentially Williams coming that side as that would need a detailed tactical plan given how bad England's left side has been in this tournament.
Click to expand...
With help. You play 2 banks of 4, make sure to control your box and the space in front and, invite Nico and LY to start very wide so you have time for the wide players to double them

What weaker teams have been doing since the down of time basically

The only plan would be England low blocking Spain to death and then trying to scramble a goal off a set piece at some stage.
Click to expand...
Set piece too, yeah
 
Well done, England!

After surviving this mess, they may now go very far. Southgate finally can be a Champion.
 
I do think some changes are needed.

Saka was good in the first half of the first game, but has since been average bar the odd few moments against Slovakia. I think Palmer should come in for him.

Foden hasn't done enough, but I think one of the reasons is his playstyle from that position along with the full back he's combining with. If we had Luke Shaw playing, I really think we'd be seeing more of Foden's quality. Trippier is getting away with it a bit in my opinion. I think he's been poor and isn't creating that overlap... Basically never? I can't remember many occasions of him going beyond Foden to either find space or take a player away from Phil. Obviously, not to be too harsh on Trippier either as he isn't exactly playing in his best position. Foden could also do more in terms of trying to play the position and go down the line to put crosses in, but he wants to come inside and he's been effective doing that for Manchester City in the latter stages of the season on their title charge. But he had Gvardiol getting beyond him constantly there which is why it works for Man City (and Haaland staying in the box to occupy defenders which Kane doesn't do as much).

It all just has knock on effects of us not being able to move the positions of defenders and thus it gets congested in that final third in front of the opposition box, and inevitably the ball comes backwards. If you can't replace Trippier, you have to replace Foden. If you really have to get Foden in the team, then it probably has to be as a number 10 and Bellingham next to Rice - but I think most would say that they prefer Bellingham to Foden at no.10 and we need to keep him there. I'd still be open to seeing Foden, Bellingham, and Rice in the middle with Gordon out wide, but I think Gareth has his reservations about how open we might be. Teams have got at us when we've play Trent, Gallagher, or Mainoo with Rice, so I imagine it would be more of the same if it was Bellingham deeper. However, if teams will get at us anyway, is it not better to just have better players going forward in a position they actually play?

We'll see what Gareth does, but I wouldn't be surprised to see an unchanged side against the Swiss, bar the enforced change at CB. I don't hold much hope for England, I fear for us against Switzerland and I'd fear for us against Austria in particular if they end up being our next opponent if we were to get through. Something has to change because we have effectively 'gotten away with it' for four games in a row now. It feels like United at times, but we at least had significant injuries. Southgate doesn't really have that excuse... But it is also a bit interesting that the two main areas of concern at LB and LCB like at United.. And they are both Man Utd players missing.
 
DixieDean said:
Coming round to the idea of wanting england to get knocked out next game. Just in case, they fluke it to the final and southgate somehow stays on. Probably for the best long term that Swiss knock us out.

Although, saying that the FA will probably try to get him to stay anyway.
Click to expand...
I think he'll be gone after the Euros, regardless of any future results/performances.
 
One of the issues we have is Rice/Stones are also so slow on the ball and risk adverse. Amount of times they both had a forward pass and decided to take 2/3 extra touches and the pass was gone or they were closed down and had to dump it sidewards.

I think this team is totally different with Luke Shaw in, i know he gets stick but driving with the ball and overlapping and making space on the left is something we've missed.
 
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Anyone left-footed
Rice - Mainoo
Palmer - Bellingham - Gordon
Kane​

Need to drop Foden. He reeks. Need actual threat on that left-side too. Give Toney more minutes.
 
Solius said:
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Anyone left-footed
Rice - Mainoo
Palmer - Bellingham - Gordon
Kane​

Need to drop Foden. He reeks. Need actual threat on that left-side too. Give Toney more minutes.
Click to expand...

This. Obviously Guehi is out of the Swiss game but that's out of our control.

Don't be afraid to hook Kane, Toney is also a fantastic defender if we are leading late.
 
Leg-End said:
This. Obviously Guehi is out of the Swiss game but that's out of our control.

Don't be afraid to hook Kane, Toney is also a fantastic defender if we are leading late.
Click to expand...

I don't know why but I always thought you were Danish.
 
Resonance said:
Nope, its Southgate's complete lack of tactical nous that will see us knocked out. One of Foden or Bellingham has to be dropped to help fix the balance of this team and on current showing, Foden has to go.
Click to expand...

The could both go quite comfortably. I actually think other than the two goals Bellingham has been a massive let down.

His game seems or be take lots of touches looking for someone to have a nibble so he can flop to the floor around the box or play a simple pass/have a little dribble and put a low quality ball into the box. He does box crash well and is capable of producing that little bit magic like we saw with the overhead kick but is it worth it? I'm not sure, maybe he should play in the 8?

Either way I don't think he should be at 10 for England.
 
Longshanks said:
Yeah the lowest of low blocks in 5-3-2, I would love to see our average positions in extra time all one the edge of the box again probably.
Click to expand...

Switching to a flat back 5 with Eze and Saka as left and right back respectively for the first half of extra time was a real highlight. We suddenly had no ability to get the ball up the pitch and had two players with limited defensive skills trying to defend with their weaker foot on the outside.
 
Doracle said:
Switching to a flat back 5 with Eze and Saka as left and right back respectively for the first half of extra time was a real highlight. We suddenly had no ability to get the ball up the pitch and had two players with limited defensive skills trying to defend with their weaker foot on the outside.
Click to expand...

When he took Kane and Bellingham off for Gallagher and Konsa aswell, such a classic Southgate move.

The memes are right about him, he drives a bigger bus than mourinho.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Can't believe people are still happily slotting Kane up top in every starting XI they come up with. He's been arguably worse than both Foden and Jude and basically offers nothing in this team apart from some box finishing (which has also been poor at this point)
Click to expand...

I thought Toney looked quite lively but there is absolutely no chance Kane is getting dropped, so I Imagine people are just being realistic.
 
I definitely think we're as good technically as Spain now. We have so many players who, for their clubs, can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces.

The problem is, as usual, the manager. Spain are coached to play on the front footy. We're coached to cross the ball and then park the bus once we go ahead.
 
We all know he won't change things unless forced by suspensions and injuries.

That one midfield position is the only thing he's changed so far.

Shaw will come back if/when available.
 
Yagami said:
I definitely think we're as good technically as Spain now. We have so many players who, for their clubs, can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces.

The problem is, as usual, the manager. Spain are coached to play on the front footy. We're coached to cross the ball and then park the bus once we go ahead.
Click to expand...
You of all people, I’m surprised to read that from. As @giorno said, there’s a sizeable technical gap between the two squads.

It doesn’t ultimately matter, if England combined their technical ability with their superior athleticism, it’s more than enough as an equaliser, but fat chance of that happening under this coaching and managerial team.
 
Yagami said:
I definitely think we're as good technically as Spain now. We have so many players who, for their clubs, can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces.

The problem is, as usual, the manager. Spain are coached to play on the front footy. We're coached to cross the ball and then park the bus once we go ahead.
Click to expand...
Watching the two games yesterday Spain are so far ahead it's not even funny.
 
Yagami said:
I definitely think we're as good technically as Spain now. We have so many players who, for their clubs, can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces.

The problem is, as usual, the manager. Spain are coached to play on the front footy. We're coached to cross the ball and then park the bus once we go ahead.
Click to expand...

I think the pundits/media have tried to convince us that we are, but given Spain look head and shoulders more technically capable, and the fact that English clubs are regularly shown up by their Spanish counterparts in European competition, I just don't think it's true.

I'm also beginning to suspect that the players that shine at City (looking very much at Foden) might be "system-players", similar to Kagawa looking excellent at Dortmund then quite lost for us.
 
Berbaclass said:
Watching the two games yesterday Spain are so far ahead it's not even funny.
Click to expand...
Are they? I don't think the gap is as big as it appeared to be yesterday.

The English style of play is simply a disgrace considering the individual quality of the players, and the fact that even the apparently mentally strongest players like Bellingham have been gaslighted into believing a dramatic extra time win against Slovakia is their level is both funny and infuriating.
 
Fortitude said:
You of all people, I’m surprised to read that from. As @giorno said, there’s a sizeable technical gap between the two squads.

It doesn’t ultimately matter, if England combined their technical ability with their superior athleticism, it’s more than enough as an equaliser, but fat chance of that happening under this coaching and managerial team.
Click to expand...
I'm not just talking about the squads here at this tournament. I'm talking about the whole talent pool. We produce so many technical players nowadays, and it doesn't look like it's stopping anytime soon. We just need a manager who embraces these types of players.
Berbaclass said:
Watching the two games yesterday Spain are so far ahead it's not even funny.
Click to expand...
Everyone looks better than us, to be fair! :lol:

Alex99 said:
I think the pundits/media have tried to convince us that we are, but given Spain look head and shoulders more technically capable, and the fact that English clubs are regularly shown up by their Spanish counterparts in European competition, I just don't think it's true.

I'm also beginning to suspect that the players that shine at City (looking very much at Foden) might be "system-players", similar to Kagawa looking excellent at Dortmund then quite lost for us.
Click to expand...
All fair points but, personally, I really rate these players. You may be right about Foden as he's really underwhelmed for England, but I wouldn't class the rest as "system players" because they've all excelled in teams that are fluid with their styles.

A system can only compensate for so much as well. Like, it can make some players look good, but it can't hide all of their deficiencies as players, which is why I was against signing the likes of Mkhitaryan, Mata, Donny, etc, because I could see that they didn't have the ability to play well without the proper support. For a player to be able to do that, they need to be really good at shielding the ball under pressure, which isn't just about strength but about how you position your body inbetween the ball and opposition player, good at dribbling, and possess the agility to turn away from an opposition player. These aren't the only attributes you need, sure, but they're the ones most commonly missing in players who flop outside of systems. The aforementioned players lacked these attributes, and there are so many English players now who possess these attributes which is why they excel in teams that play counter attacking or possession football. For the ones who play for top teams, I don't think they look out of place next to their teammates either.

Even if it turns out that the majority are system players, that's not a horrible thing. We just need a manager that can coach a style that makes up for our deficiencies. Look at Ruiz for Spain. At club level, he's been very underwhelming for PSG. I've also never really been a fan of his at either Betis or Napoli before that, myself, too. Then he comes into the Spain team that has a specific system and is one of the best players of the tournament. Spain have system players, too, but they're fortunate that they're a team that are actually coached to play cohesive football. If we finally start doing the same, I think we could look just as good.
 
saivet said:
I would go for Konsa.

Missed the game but just seen the highlights and reading on the game. It sounds like another poor performance and if we don't buck up our ideas big time the Swiss will just do what they did to Italy to us.

The hope is that it could be the type of moment you look back on and realise this is where our tournament ignited but it feels more like hope than anything else.
Click to expand...

Yeah if they can deal with Italy so easily then it doesn't bode well for us, however we do have more players who can produce moments. They also produced a brilliant comeback to force that penalty shootout against France in last Euros
 
Yagami said:
I definitely think we're as good technically as Spain now. We have so many players who, for their clubs, can keep the ball under pressure and play in tight spaces.

The problem is, as usual, the manager. Spain are coached to play on the front footy. We're coached to cross the ball and then park the bus once we go ahead.
Click to expand...

Agree with you, if England did a manager swap with City it'd be interesting to see how both played.

Mainly we miss a ball playing GK, Pep might struggle with that.

For me England's problems are 95% tactical and coaching. All the players look like imposters compared to their club versions...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.