Southgate looks as nervous as the ghost of a dead tweaker on MotD
England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion
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I don’t think Mainoo worked that well with Rice. Mainoo as an individual was brilliant but I think as a pair it wasn’t as good as I had hoped, which is weird because Rice was pretty decent himself too. It was their first start together though, so I’d definitely stick with them as a pair, but it was a bit awkward between them today.
Who should come in for Guehi?
Dun
k?!He was terrible in the March friendlies and very lucky to get in the squad. Baffled to why Branthwaite wasn't taken as he'd have been a natural choice for LCB.
Konsa should start at CB and move Stones to the left side.
It'll be Konsa.
Form and common sense says Switzerland win comfortably on Saturday. In reality England will scrape a draw and go through on penalties.
There's an inevitability about this England team that, despite being terrible most of the time, they only get knocked out by the elite sides.
There's an inevitability about this England team that, despite being terrible most of the time, they only get knocked out by the elite sides.
I would go for Konsa.
Missed the game but just seen the highlights and reading on the game. It sounds like another poor performance and if we don't buck up our ideas big time the Swiss will just do what they did to Italy to us.
The hope is that it could be the type of moment you look back on and realise this is where our tournament ignited but it feels more like hope than anything else.
Why are people talking about potential new England managers on another brilliant night where we got through yet another knockout round on our way to Berlin?
Rice was poor as he has been all tournament. I can not believe how poor a player he is actually. Undropable by Gareth for some bizarre reason. He is the crux of many of our issues. Nothing like the Arsenal player.
They didn't understand eachother at all. I think Rice thought Kobbie needed more space to receive the ball so when Kobbie kept playing quick little balls to him then drifting out to play around the opposition Rice slowed things down.
They need to understand that Kobbie is more than happy to receive the ball with a man at his back.
Been watching England games since 1995, thus far, there is no real difference between Southgate and all the other managers that came before him during that period, McClaren aside.
Some of these England squads were better than others, some played more attractive football than others, but not one of these England teams managed to win a knock out tie against a superior or an equal opponent.
Spain 96 and Germany 2021 were the closest but England beat both at home, and these weren’t vintage German and Spanish sides.
Lets see what happens here.
Some of these England squads were better than others, some played more attractive football than others, but not one of these England teams managed to win a knock out tie against a superior or an equal opponent.
Spain 96 and Germany 2021 were the closest but England beat both at home, and these weren’t vintage German and Spanish sides.
Lets see what happens here.
It really was incredibly predictable. Thankfully the individual brilliance saved us in the end.
The way we sat back and did our usual routine in extra time
That was so nearly and should have been a classic embarrassing England night.
The way we sat back and did our usual routine in extra time
That was so nearly and should have been a classic embarrassing England night.
Yeah would presume so as he came on today
Thiught
The problem is that the entire back 4 and Pickford don't love threading anything through the lines forward, and neither does Rice. Mainoo can do it somewhat but he's better as a carrier, and Slovakia just had their way keeping England pinned just endlessly passing side to side struggling to get the ball into dangerous positions quickly.
The answer is that you need Trent at minimum in for Walker to give another top passer out of the back, and certainly Gordon or someone to stretch play across the left. Shaw would also completely transform this team but I'm skeptical if he even gets any minutes this tournament apart from maybe a sub appearance in the semi's or possible final. I'd also bench Kane for obvious reasons but that's apparently never going to happen, so the best fans can hope for is Foden benched for someone on that left side.
The problem is that the entire back 4 and Pickford don't love threading anything through the lines forward, and neither does Rice. Mainoo can do it somewhat but he's better as a carrier, and Slovakia just had their way keeping England pinned just endlessly passing side to side struggling to get the ball into dangerous positions quickly.
The answer is that you need Trent at minimum in for Walker to give another top passer out of the back, and certainly Gordon or someone to stretch play across the left. Shaw would also completely transform this team but I'm skeptical if he even gets any minutes this tournament apart from maybe a sub appearance in the semi's or possible final. I'd also bench Kane for obvious reasons but that's apparently never going to happen, so the best fans can hope for is Foden benched for someone on that left side.
Yeah Rice and that back 4+ Pickford seem terrified to ping it into these players feet between the lines. It's making it painfully easy for these half decent sides to press England comfortably without being worried about getting punished for it. Kane is slower than Weghorst and drops deep, Jude roams everywhere, Foden just wants the ball at his feet, and neither fullback presses forward at all. It creates this logjam of players just sitting around easy to mark and there's 0 dynamic threat for defenses to worry about.
Apart from the two goals that performance was as bad as I have seen.
Slow and inept passing and just basically no fecking idea.
The Swiss will be licking their lips.
Slow and inept passing and just basically no fecking idea.
The Swiss will be licking their lips.
Largely agree. There could have been more interplay there but I think it's just a symptom of how disjointed England are generally. There aren't the passing options on offer and Kane is way too static up front, like all of the forwards. So many problems to address, but this is the best midfield pairing available.
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That front 4 can't start again surely, Kane and Bellingham have been dreadful in all honesty and there has been zero link up in 4 games aswell.
I would drop Kane and Bellingham probably for Watkins and Gordon. Bring foden into the 10 probably leave saka in for now, don't think Palmer did enough in his cameo to warrant a start.
But the chance of that happening are zero, Southgate will probably drop us into a 5-3-2 with toney and kane upfront and just smash long balls towards. God forbid we try and play through midfield or try anything other than hitting hopeful crosses on.
I would drop Kane and Bellingham probably for Watkins and Gordon. Bring foden into the 10 probably leave saka in for now, don't think Palmer did enough in his cameo to warrant a start.
But the chance of that happening are zero, Southgate will probably drop us into a 5-3-2 with toney and kane upfront and just smash long balls towards. God forbid we try and play through midfield or try anything other than hitting hopeful crosses on.
Problem with England is they seem not to have any style, structure or idea how to play. Its all up to individual performances getting the team out of trouble. If I'm not mistaken the goal was the 1st shot on target?
They have a problem similar to Croatia's, players are too close to each other, there's no running behind the defense and no stretching the opposition. It's just the ball going around hoping it will get to Bellingham or Kane. All the more shame given the names in the team and absolutely stacked bench.
Croatia didnt go through, England did but for how long.
Saying that, although Switzerland is the favorite given how the 2 teams are playing in the Euro England has the players to drag them through despite the fact they're playing crap.
I see Bellingham showed some unappropriate signs poiting to his balls and Rice called Slovakian manager a bald cnut.
They have a problem similar to Croatia's, players are too close to each other, there's no running behind the defense and no stretching the opposition. It's just the ball going around hoping it will get to Bellingham or Kane. All the more shame given the names in the team and absolutely stacked bench.
Croatia didnt go through, England did but for how long.
Saying that, although Switzerland is the favorite given how the 2 teams are playing in the Euro England has the players to drag them through despite the fact they're playing crap.
I see Bellingham showed some unappropriate signs poiting to his balls and Rice called Slovakian manager a bald cnut.
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Watching Spain, you can see how much difference tactics and a proper team set up and plan can make. England have none of that. I was pretty meh towards the end of the match and just accepted the shite and being knocked out. The team fails to bring any passion from the fans. A better manager would have made more effective use of the players available. Also taking far too long to make changes, which should have been made at half time.
The LB position needs some consideration next match to provide width on the left. Stones should be doing more to step up forward like he does for City. TAA coming in at RB although I can’t see Walker being dropped. The whole pressing element as a team is abysmal, not enough pressure on the opposition and then too big a gap between attack and midfield when doing so. Then on the other side, not good enough passing forward to beat the opposition press.
The LB position needs some consideration next match to provide width on the left. Stones should be doing more to step up forward like he does for City. TAA coming in at RB although I can’t see Walker being dropped. The whole pressing element as a team is abysmal, not enough pressure on the opposition and then too big a gap between attack and midfield when doing so. Then on the other side, not good enough passing forward to beat the opposition press.
Bellingham-Foden is really the new Gerrard-Lampard, I think it's evidently clear at this stage that they cannot play together (or rather not yet at the very least). And from last night's viewing Bellingham should start over Foden any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Southgate will see it a lot differently but in a Southgate-less world the following should be England's starting XI against Switzerland: Pickford; Walker, Konsa, Stones, TAA; Mainoo, Rice; Eze, Bellingham, Palmer; Kane.
Southgate will see it a lot differently but in a Southgate-less world the following should be England's starting XI against Switzerland: Pickford; Walker, Konsa, Stones, TAA; Mainoo, Rice; Eze, Bellingham, Palmer; Kane.
How did we play after Kane's goal?
Did we go for more or sit back?
Did we go for more or sit back?
Sit back. There were a lot of nervy moments for the rest of the ET for England. Don't understand the tactics at all, SVK offered nothing after their goal, yet they were invited into the match after going 2-1 up.
Put any decent manager in charge and he will get them playing together fine. Southgate is the issue. Also that team you picked has no pace about it whatsoever.
Ha!
I am very sure that they can, as both have the versatility to play in a huge area and in different roles. This isn't a selection issue, but a lack of tactical ideas. It looks like Southgate doesn't give clear orders about who covers the central space at which time, so we see Bellingham, Foden and Kane as well all moving into the same spaces.
It's not that different from the German team fielding Wirtz, Gündogan, Musiala and Havertz as a top four. All tend to play in the same space, yet it worked reasonably well that they played together instead of getting in each others way.
Of course they won't be dropped, and rightfully so, they scored the goals that got us through. Foden and Saka on the otherhand, both should be dropped for Gordon and Palmer.
Looking at Laporte right up the pitch near the penalty area. A bloody CB.
Because the current one's best mate just took over running the ship at Man United and he's off to join him in a few months.
What? Palmer is electric and while it's not quite raw pace with Eze I really liked the look of him last night. Gordon, the more rapid of the two, can come on as defences tire.
I did put a disclaimer there that it could well be a case of 'not yet' instead of an outright no, but from the evidence so far I don't like what I'm seeing when those two are on the pitch at the same time.
I would not call Palmer electric. Saka and Gordon are much quicker. For at least one of them has to play. The option could be to put one of them LB. Foden would be better when he has an overlapping full back.
As I'm not English I don't feel forced to watch them, and I did watch little of England because it's just awful to look at. So I absolutely agree with you on all you say.
It's just that I do think they are both great players and therefore it should be better to get tactical knowledge into the team instead of just changing player selection
So what's the situation with Shaw? I know he definitely wasn't fit to start but was he perhaps just not brought on because of the in-game situation or is he still not ready to feature?
He's just not recovered as quickly as hoped. Southgate can't have brought him to the euros knowing he'd not be able to play until the quarter finals.
Personally, I think Rice is getting a bit of unfair stick. Hes not a creative midfielder, he's more of a sweeper and to that extent he's actually done a pretty good job. If you watch the last few games, he's actually disrupted the opponents play quite a few times, which is just as well, as Stones looks leggy to me.
I think Rice and Mainoo could work really well together, once Rice realises that Mainoo is happy being played to with players on his back.
To me, Rice isn't the problem, there are much bigger problems in the team. Trippier needs replacing with Trent on the right and Walker on the left. We then need to get rid of Foden and put Gordon on. Walker and Trent need players that are going to run down the wings and I think Trent will feed Saka/Palmer better than Walker will. But likewise, Walker will feed Gordon better than Trippier will. Either way, it needs more pace down the entire flanks.
If Southgate starts with Foden again, it will confirm even more that he's not a clue. Foden floats about too much, which creates a void on the left.
Also, I would give Kane 30 minutes to see if he's fed better from Saka and Gordon, but if he's not then I'd sub him for someone quicker. He looks like his legs have gone and I know he scored, but anyone could have scored that open header.
I think Rice and Mainoo could work really well together, once Rice realises that Mainoo is happy being played to with players on his back.
To me, Rice isn't the problem, there are much bigger problems in the team. Trippier needs replacing with Trent on the right and Walker on the left. We then need to get rid of Foden and put Gordon on. Walker and Trent need players that are going to run down the wings and I think Trent will feed Saka/Palmer better than Walker will. But likewise, Walker will feed Gordon better than Trippier will. Either way, it needs more pace down the entire flanks.
If Southgate starts with Foden again, it will confirm even more that he's not a clue. Foden floats about too much, which creates a void on the left.
Also, I would give Kane 30 minutes to see if he's fed better from Saka and Gordon, but if he's not then I'd sub him for someone quicker. He looks like his legs have gone and I know he scored, but anyone could have scored that open header.
England were incredibly lucky that the opposition was mentally shattered early in Extra time and Southgate again nearly shat the bed with his team substitute selection. He took of Bellingham and Kane and left no-one on the pitch who could actually hold onto the ball. Gallagher runs around the pitch like a puppy but offers nothing other than pressing. England reverted to backs against the wall for a further 25 minutes of Extra time and were lucky Slovakia didn't score.
If he tries that tactic against better quality or more resilient opposition he will squander a lead yet again. I think that is what Foden should be used for, as a substitute to Bellingham or Mainoo once a game is under control and you want to maintain possession...run into the corners and waste time...draw free kicks etc.
It's clear Southgate won't make the necessary changes - Foden hasn't worked for a number of games but he keeps playing him. Kane is in "old man" mode, if he comes deep it's then painfully slow for him to get upto the box. So we either need to retain the ball for longer in advanced positions or have advanced runners on the wing to create spaces and drag the defence out of position. Mainoo and Palmer worked well together in doing this in the group game, but Southgate didn't give them a chance to do that against Slovakia because he'd taken Mainoo off. If he had taken Foden off instead I think England would have won the game inside 90 minutes.
I think what we are also seeing with England is the distinct lack of "other voices" in the management structure. Steve Holland doesn't seem to offer much or have much experience and in previous tournaments there would be older heads with experience of tournament football. unless he makes significant changes Switzerland will rip this team apart.
If he tries that tactic against better quality or more resilient opposition he will squander a lead yet again. I think that is what Foden should be used for, as a substitute to Bellingham or Mainoo once a game is under control and you want to maintain possession...run into the corners and waste time...draw free kicks etc.
It's clear Southgate won't make the necessary changes - Foden hasn't worked for a number of games but he keeps playing him. Kane is in "old man" mode, if he comes deep it's then painfully slow for him to get upto the box. So we either need to retain the ball for longer in advanced positions or have advanced runners on the wing to create spaces and drag the defence out of position. Mainoo and Palmer worked well together in doing this in the group game, but Southgate didn't give them a chance to do that against Slovakia because he'd taken Mainoo off. If he had taken Foden off instead I think England would have won the game inside 90 minutes.
I think what we are also seeing with England is the distinct lack of "other voices" in the management structure. Steve Holland doesn't seem to offer much or have much experience and in previous tournaments there would be older heads with experience of tournament football. unless he makes significant changes Switzerland will rip this team apart.
Kane's all round game was horrific yesterday. Also missed a free header with 10 minutes left he'd normally score and not ready for the Rice shot coming off the post (although a difficult chance to twist his body).
He should've been subbed as he made no contribution to getting it back to 1-1 in the first place.
However he wasn't as Southgate would never take him off if game is close and there might be a penalty shoot out looming e.g. if it had been 1-1 in extra time with ten minutes left he wouldn't have been subbed like he was.
Coming round to the idea of wanting england to get knocked out next game. Just in case, they fluke it to the final and southgate somehow stays on. Probably for the best long term that Swiss knock us out.
Although, saying that the FA will probably try to get him to stay anyway.
Although, saying that the FA will probably try to get him to stay anyway.
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