I'd probably look to drop Gallagher, Bellingham, Kane and Saka for the next game. None of them are in form. No point leaving Grealish and Rashford at home due to their disappointing seasons, but then play players who just don't look at it anyway.
England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion
- Thread starter BabySinclair
- Start date
- Status
Bellingham as a false 9 is probably a good shout at this point. Can just pack the midfield with defensive players again.
Kane all round game starting to resemble Rooney from 2013-14 when he lost acceleration and so had to drop deeper and generally became less effective.
From what I'm seeing I don't think he starts at the next World cup tbh.
Palmer for Saka and Mainoo for Gallagher will be the only changes though.
Kane all round game starting to resemble Rooney from 2013-14 when he lost acceleration and so had to drop deeper and generally became less effective.
From what I'm seeing I don't think he starts at the next World cup tbh.
Palmer for Saka and Mainoo for Gallagher will be the only changes though.
Play whoever is fittest
Kane has looked pretty poor. The type of poor that wouldn't be a surprise had we spent £100m on him a year ago and then his legs fell off after one season. Perhaps he just needs a rest or maybe it's the start of his decline.
Kane doesn't look fit, looks about 100 years old with his movement, and doesn't really work in this lineup or at least doing what he's doing. We don't need a striker dropping deep. It's not working at all.
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Trippier
Rice
Foden
Mainoo
Palmer
Saka
Kane
Play Saka on the left. We have no width whatsoever. Bellingham is either knackered or carrying knocks. He’s been woeful so far.
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Trippier
Rice
Foden
Mainoo
Palmer
Saka
Kane
Play Saka on the left. We have no width whatsoever. Bellingham is either knackered or carrying knocks. He’s been woeful so far.
I know club football doesn't always translate to internationals but the way Poch ended the season with us using both Palmer and Madueke on the right side could easily work for England here with Saka and Foden. In possession Saka holds the width and Foden acts as the right sided 10 creating overloads with him. Out of possession Kane and Foden are the two furthest forward initiating the press, while Saka and Gordon hold the shape on both flanks in a 442 (out of poss). Both are very capable of fulfilling defensive instructions.
Trent inverts in possession alongside Rice, Bellingham and Foden push forward. Walker creates the back 3. 442 out of possession
Trent inverts in possession alongside Rice, Bellingham and Foden push forward. Walker creates the back 3. 442 out of possession
In possession:
LCB: Walker
CB: Stones
RCB: Guehi
DM: Trent
DM: Rice
LM: Gordon
AM: Bellingham
AM: Foden/Palmer
RM: Saka
ST: Kane
Out of possession:
RB: Trent
CB: Stones
CB: Guehi
LB: Walker
RM: Saka
CM: Bellingham
CM: Rice
LM: Gordon
SS: Foden
ST: Kane
LCB: Walker
CB: Stones
RCB: Guehi
DM: Trent
DM: Rice
LM: Gordon
AM: Bellingham
AM: Foden/Palmer
RM: Saka
ST: Kane
Out of possession:
RB: Trent
CB: Stones
CB: Guehi
LB: Walker
RM: Saka
CM: Bellingham
CM: Rice
LM: Gordon
SS: Foden
ST: Kane
Last edited:
Exactly what it is, he's played pretty much every minute of every game for club and country since COVID so he's basically had no rest in 4 years. No manager, including Tuchel let's him get rest, so it's natural that the wear and tear would catch up to him. When he actually made a run down the right and fizzed a ball in towards the end we almost scored. But he doesn't really have the legs for those runs anymore.
What would be the point in a false 9, we're congested as it is? It's adding to one of the problems we've got where everyone is running towards the ball not away from it to create space. Bellingham and Foden tripping over each others laces. Mindlessly backwards and sideways at snails pace because nobody runs.
England have got two very good strikers sat around the hotel that aren't named Harry Kane but we wouldn't know it based on this tournament. Watkins and Toney are handfuls, depending on whether a target man, physical striker or somebody that is to run in behind is needed. Both completely different styles. So he's got one all round world class striker with great creativity, one physical beast and one pacey striker that all score bags of goals yet we're toothless, any manager would love those options.
I think Southgate needs to grow a set really, the options are there.
We are very lucky not to be in stronger group, pleased to be on the favourable side but will it matter with how badly we are playing. So frustrating we beat this kind of opposition in qualifiers but struggle to score when it comes to tournament.
I just wonder if not picking certain players has caused friction between the squad and Southgate. So they have decided to down tools on him as a protest.
I just wonder if not picking certain players has caused friction between the squad and Southgate. So they have decided to down tools on him as a protest.
Last edited:
you’ll be cheering along come the semi’s
Impressed with Palmer again, went past three players brilliantly in one move with good ball control, he has some pace too that got him on the end of a ball to the by line and kept it alive with good close control to beat the defender, and also played a very good through ball from deep into the box that other players should've made more and then was on the end of that only fluent team move for decentish shot.
Perhaps Saka will be best to start against the dutch, he's a very good player as well but Palmer should get a decent amount of time and perhaps best against a defending team, he's so good at deft flicks (Scholes esque) and invention around the box and has a surprising amount of speed and agility to evade people. Kane suddenly look involved with Palmer and they linked up superbly against Iceland and should've had a goal each
We'll see against a better team but this Kane Foden Bellingham Saka is just not working. Maybe have Palmer on for Foden if Saka is having a good game or stretching teams. Of course Gordon is also an option to stretch teams but if we're sticking to one change then I'd be lookign at Palmer for his all round game. It's quite damning for United this local lad and United fan is not here.
Palmer, Foden and Mainoo all from about 5 miles in the south manchester area, Stockport/Wythenshawe
Perhaps Saka will be best to start against the dutch, he's a very good player as well but Palmer should get a decent amount of time and perhaps best against a defending team, he's so good at deft flicks (Scholes esque) and invention around the box and has a surprising amount of speed and agility to evade people. Kane suddenly look involved with Palmer and they linked up superbly against Iceland and should've had a goal each
We'll see against a better team but this Kane Foden Bellingham Saka is just not working. Maybe have Palmer on for Foden if Saka is having a good game or stretching teams. Of course Gordon is also an option to stretch teams but if we're sticking to one change then I'd be lookign at Palmer for his all round game. It's quite damning for United this local lad and United fan is not here.
Palmer, Foden and Mainoo all from about 5 miles in the south manchester area, Stockport/Wythenshawe
I cheer all the time!
I want them to do well, I want to watch every kick of the ball.
Doesn't mean I can stay awake through it all though
Did i fall asleep and miss England playing quickly?
Apart from Gordon in the few seconds he was given.
The painstakingly obvious move is to just move Bellingham back, put Foden at 10 and bring in a proper winger on the left. That’s 3 games now of the same shit and he still won’t make a change. Gallagher in midfield obviously was not going to be enough.
I honestly think that England having an uninspiring group stage is good for them.
I'm saying this as a neutral so this is not some sort of cope.
England has so much quality that Southgate can change half of the team and try out all sorts of things until it clicks.
Having such bad performances gives Southgate the perfect excuse to drop whoever he wants from the team and no one can say anything. Basically he can now drop both Bellingham and Foden and there won't be much backlash.
I think this England can be very dangerous if you put Palmer as #10 and Gordon on the left, and playing Rice deeper.
Also I think people seriously underestimate teams that England played against. Denmark and Slovenia are both solid teams who will give their opponents in the knockouts loads of problems. Just because this group was boring it doesn't mean that the teams sucked, rather the opposite, all the teams in this group were just very defensively good and left little for the opponent to work with. And I think many of you will be surprised how well Denmark and Slovenia will look in the round of 16 against whoever they play against. Denmark will give Germany problems too.
If I were an England fan I'd take a group stage like this over a false sense of security moping the floor with lesser teams and then folding when encountering a good team later on.
I'm saying this as a neutral so this is not some sort of cope.
England has so much quality that Southgate can change half of the team and try out all sorts of things until it clicks.
Having such bad performances gives Southgate the perfect excuse to drop whoever he wants from the team and no one can say anything. Basically he can now drop both Bellingham and Foden and there won't be much backlash.
I think this England can be very dangerous if you put Palmer as #10 and Gordon on the left, and playing Rice deeper.
Also I think people seriously underestimate teams that England played against. Denmark and Slovenia are both solid teams who will give their opponents in the knockouts loads of problems. Just because this group was boring it doesn't mean that the teams sucked, rather the opposite, all the teams in this group were just very defensively good and left little for the opponent to work with. And I think many of you will be surprised how well Denmark and Slovenia will look in the round of 16 against whoever they play against. Denmark will give Germany problems too.
If I were an England fan I'd take a group stage like this over a false sense of security moping the floor with lesser teams and then folding when encountering a good team later on.
Kane has been a great player , he's had a good season aswell , but there was a moment in the first half that wasn't really picked up on I felt . Foden cut in and hit a short pass into Kane . He missed it and put the thumbs up , but you could tell he thought the pass was way over hit . It was pacy , but I think that is what is required at times in that area . There's plenty of players who would have been anticipating that .
foden did a similar thing again , but fed rice who at least got a shot away , the tripper ball in , if Gallagher doesn't get it Kane has to .
I think he's off the pace at the minute , it's a bit of a concern .
foden did a similar thing again , but fed rice who at least got a shot away , the tripper ball in , if Gallagher doesn't get it Kane has to .
I think he's off the pace at the minute , it's a bit of a concern .
Much as neither Rashford or Grealish deserved to go they could have helped break down this low block type of opposition we have faced in group.
It’s interesting that many felt England’s weakness (aside from the manager) was central defence whereas they’re struggling most in midfield and attack - the areas you’d say they’re fairly stacked (especially attack).
I think the issues seem obvious:
- Foden is an average winger. Go with Saka on the right and someone on the left who can stretch the game (like Gordon)
- Given Rice is mediocre in building play and Bellingham is not a true midfielder, you need someone with quality on the ball as an 8. Mainoo has to start - it’s a no brainer.
- Left footed left back
Kane is the elephant in the room but he’s still too reliable a goalscorer to drop. Who knows, maybe dropping him will really allow England to realise their potential better. This team would be so much better with someone like Rooney leading the line.
I think the issues seem obvious:
- Foden is an average winger. Go with Saka on the right and someone on the left who can stretch the game (like Gordon)
- Given Rice is mediocre in building play and Bellingham is not a true midfielder, you need someone with quality on the ball as an 8. Mainoo has to start - it’s a no brainer.
- Left footed left back
Kane is the elephant in the room but he’s still too reliable a goalscorer to drop. Who knows, maybe dropping him will really allow England to realise their potential better. This team would be so much better with someone like Rooney leading the line.
Last edited:
Pep and Will sitting on a hill...
Given what we’ve seen of Southgate so far, I highly doubt that he’ll make wholesale changes in the next game, especially as it’s a knock-out game. Zero chance he drops Kane, Foden or Bellingham, he’s too cowardice for that. The game to do any further ‘experimenting’ was this game vs Slovenia, and he continued with essentially the same line-up, same set up, same tactic.
In an ideal world, I’d replace Gallagher, Bellingham and Saka with Mainoo, Gordon and Palmer and shift Foden to the 10 role. I doubt Southgate changes it that much, but I think that would give us more width, pace and creativity. It looks like Bellingham is his golden boy which is a concern as the last two games he’s been way off the pace.
I’m really surprised that Southgate hasn’t given Saka a game at left back to see how he’d do. He played LB for Arsenal in his younger days and this team is crying out for a natural left footer there to stretch the play and bring balance. The central areas are way too crowded. This is the team I’d play in the round of 16:
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Saka
Rice
Mainoo
Foden
Palmer
Gordon
Kane
Pickford
Walker
Stones
Guehi
Saka
Rice
Mainoo
Foden
Palmer
Gordon
Kane
My England line-up would be:
I know its not going to happen but only one of Jude or Foden should be in the starting eleven. Palmer deserves to start and so does Mainoo. This line-up gets England best midfield option and attacking talents on the pitch. TAA can invert and become the passer from the midfield that Southgate desires.
However, we are more likely to see England play conservative football with their most progressive set of players ever. More likely to shithouse their way to the finals then playing with any panache.
Pickford
TAA Stones Guehi Walker/Trippier
Rice
Foden/Jude Mainoo
Palmer Kane Saka
With TAA inverting when England have the ball. TAA Stones Guehi Walker/Trippier
Rice
Foden/Jude Mainoo
Palmer Kane Saka
I know its not going to happen but only one of Jude or Foden should be in the starting eleven. Palmer deserves to start and so does Mainoo. This line-up gets England best midfield option and attacking talents on the pitch. TAA can invert and become the passer from the midfield that Southgate desires.
However, we are more likely to see England play conservative football with their most progressive set of players ever. More likely to shithouse their way to the finals then playing with any panache.
----------------- Pickford
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Shaw
--------- Mainoo ---- Rice
Palmer ------ Foden ------ Saka
--------------- Bellingham
Walker - Stones - Guehi - Shaw
--------- Mainoo ---- Rice
Palmer ------ Foden ------ Saka
--------------- Bellingham
This 100%. Mainoo will start in CM along with Rice, and that's it.
Had a mate say the same thing. It’s like watching United unfortunately.
The reality is that Kane, Saka and Bellingham are all out of form/knackered/injured.
What will the new ruthless Southgate do about that? Absolutely nothing.
Also, I must be missing something with about how good Declan Rice is? He just goes sideways and backwards, slows the ball down to walking pace and then slows it down a bit more. Really unconvinced on how valuable he is to the team.
Cole Palmer looked pacey, direct and keen when he came on. He absolutely needs to start next game. Same with Mainoo.
Id drop Bellingham as well, put Foden in his correct position and put Gordon on the left. You might just then get a tune out of Kane.
Would do Saka and Bellingham good to come out of the firing line and have a rest.
What will Southgate do…..start Mainoo for Gallagher and hope that it all clicks unlike the previous 3 games.
What will the new ruthless Southgate do about that? Absolutely nothing.
Also, I must be missing something with about how good Declan Rice is? He just goes sideways and backwards, slows the ball down to walking pace and then slows it down a bit more. Really unconvinced on how valuable he is to the team.
Cole Palmer looked pacey, direct and keen when he came on. He absolutely needs to start next game. Same with Mainoo.
Id drop Bellingham as well, put Foden in his correct position and put Gordon on the left. You might just then get a tune out of Kane.
Would do Saka and Bellingham good to come out of the firing line and have a rest.
What will Southgate do…..start Mainoo for Gallagher and hope that it all clicks unlike the previous 3 games.
So many England fans saying "we still topped the group" etc.
I can't wait until they're out, hopefully on Sunday.
I can't wait until they're out, hopefully on Sunday.
He needs space though.
Several times with the ball at a perfectly manageable height, he's limply swung hours leg at it - like he was David Walliams trying to be overtly unsporty for comic effect - and the ball just ended up anywhere
What has Foden done in an England shirt to warrant others being moved out of position? If I'll be trying to keep anyone in, it would be Saka. Bar yesterday, he's been the most dangerous looking, even with Walker being extremely toothless in an attacking sense. The right side hasn't been the issue in this tournament, it's been the left. Not sure how Foden conned people he had a good game yesterday because he had 2 crosses and a bunch of good set piece takes.
Saw half the game. Foden had some ok moments, while Bellingham and Kane had nothing. Saka too, but at least he's fast, and that makes him important.
Palmer looked ok.
Dropping one of Bellingham or Kane for Palmer would probably make sense?
Also they needed Rashford as an option on the left - lack of pace in the centre means quick wingers are essential!
Palmer looked ok.
Dropping one of Bellingham or Kane for Palmer would probably make sense?
Also they needed Rashford as an option on the left - lack of pace in the centre means quick wingers are essential!
Pickford
TAA Stones Guehi Walker
Rice Mainoo
Saka Foden Palmer
Kane
TAA Stones Guehi Walker
Rice Mainoo
Saka Foden Palmer
Kane
And just let the magic happen, but of course this line-up won't happen in a thousand years unfortunately. I'd even be surprised if Mainoo and Palmer start next game, which seems obvious based on last night. Mainoo completely changed the game last night just by being in midfield, and Palmer looked his active and threatening self for most of the time. I know TAA at RB is controversial as his defending is average but this England team should be dominating every opponent bar maybe Spain so more than enough cover with Saka down the same side, Rice from midfield and his CBs. Walker hasn't been convincing either at RB.
Think he might just start with the same starting XI as against Slovenia, not sure he has the balls to start Mainoo right away in a KO game. Might've even brought Gordon on late yesterday only to prove a point that it "doesn't make that much of a difference". England is still an option as an opponent for Belgium if we go through tonight as 3th, but it's not exactly like you should be feared. Such a shame though, so much potential in this side. Luckily most players are young enough for a great WC26 under a new manager.
Pickford must have had the most touches of any player in the opening 15 minutes. We were passing back to him, looking like we were panic-retreating, when there wasn't a single opposition player in our half.
We go into every game terrified. That's why when we try and go forward, everything looks nervous and stilted, with nobody moving anywhere.
We go into every game terrified. That's why when we try and go forward, everything looks nervous and stilted, with nobody moving anywhere.
It’s a crime that such a spineless incompetent loser like Southgate is allowed to manage this group of players and continue to get away with picking the safe options despite it clearly not working in previous games.
England have been by far the dullest team to watch at the Euros in one of the weaker groups. I just cannot come to terms with how useless Gareth is and never will. Feck this.
England have been by far the dullest team to watch at the Euros in one of the weaker groups. I just cannot come to terms with how useless Gareth is and never will. Feck this.
Amazing isn't it? Congratulations on barely doing the bare minimum. Football's coming home.
Dont know why people want Bellingham as a CM, when he plays as a false 9 for his club. It doesnt really play to his strengths either, seems like another situation of fitting Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard together, rather than taking the ballsy move and choosing the right players, rather than all the big names together.
----------Mainoo--Rice
Palmer--Bellingham-Gordon
------------Watkins
Is what I would go for.
----------Mainoo--Rice
Palmer--Bellingham-Gordon
------------Watkins
Is what I would go for.
Saka is the only one of the front four who deserves to keep his place.
Dropping him from of the side would not make sense.
Kane is clearly tired and Watkins will offer something different off the ball to stretch defences, Gordon too.
Dropping him from of the side would not make sense.
Kane is clearly tired and Watkins will offer something different off the ball to stretch defences, Gordon too.
Southgate got absolute dog's abuse when he missed the penalty at Euro 96. I think he's hardwired to avoid anything like that happening again and for that reason, will never make a ballsy pick when it comes to stalwarts and media darlings in his team.
He isn't a Capello who will do what he wants regardless of fallout; he's the antithesis of that. A grey man who has to be forced along when it comes to adjusting his team. He'll always pick on the newbies in this sense whilst going nowhere near potential outcry for taking out big names.
It's looking increasingly likely that Wharton won't see the pitch and that Kane will have to be injured or fatigued beyond belief for anyone to get the nod over him.
- Status