England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion
- Thread starter BabySinclair
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Yeah England are in terrible shape. Whether it's Southgate's fault or whatever is irrelevant, that team is unfit, and they know it, and they know they got no chance
Pretty much. The mr nice act Southgate puts forward when not winning can really come across as jarring and almost like entitlement.
Kane and Rice have made such mugs of themselves for him, and the media are lapping it up.
Just so weak.
I don't think England beat Switzerland.
Germany isn't beating Italy either
That'll be an interesting contest. If they score early, it'll be a very, very different game compared to if they don't. Germany come out all guns blazing and then they fade, which is perfect for you guys if they don't score during the bluster phase.
A reflection of the man in charge.
Standards
STANDARDS!!!
Even when I played non league footy this was drummed in during training and matches. I must have heard that word 1,000 times a season.
Screams “not my fault guv” from both rice and Kane and tells us all we need to know about the mentality in the camp.
He’ll be saying “football is hard” when we’re on the plane home too.
I was there for this. Remember thinking this could be the start of something great….You don't know what your talking about.
While him and Kane look pathetic trying to play victim in these clips, I have to say, the English media is something else. I’ve watched many player pressers from various countries (France, Spain, etc) and these types of questions would never be asked. Besides trying start up a fire storm, why the hell would anyone ask a question like that? Hello Harry , such and such were talking shit about you, any comments? Never heard a reporter quote a podcast at a NT presser before WTF
Sorry aware I'm responding to a post that's a few days old here...just when I opened the thread this must have been the last page I looked at and thought I would butt in with my two cents.
I think the stats can have more context than just looking at the overall totals so far. Because Bellingham started out as an all round CM and it's only actually quite recently that he's been starting as a pure AM for England, so I would argue it's only really fair G+A for when they've both started in an attacking role.
Also if you consider that Bellingham made his debut at 17 and was integrated mostly as a substitute early on (6 of his first 10 apps were as a sub) whereas Foden made his debut at 20 and was starting earlier (2 of first 10 apps were as a sub).
And then the current perspective is also biased on recent performances, where also the expectation on Foden has been higher than in the past because of how good he has been for City this season.
Anyhow, breaking down the stats shows that:
- Bellingham got 0 goals and 0 assists in his first 16 apps (8 starts, 8 sub apps)
- So since he's got 4 goals and 5 assists in 15 apps (all starts)
- Foden made more starts early on and was doing okay until the last World Cup - 3 goals and 8 assists in his first 22 apps (17 starts, 5 sub apps)
- He then had a lull in terms of starting (probably due to how he was also out of the City team) as he only started 2 of his next 6 caps and scored 1 goal
- His last 8 apps have all been starts but he has 0 goals and 0 assists
So yeah, on the surface of the stats they've performed at a similar level overall for England, but you could certainly make the case of Bellingham having more impressive stats if you only compare since he has played as an AM.
And the current damning perspective of Foden is very heavily influenced by his poor output recently, in contrast to his improved output and performances at City.
Albeit, there is also a defence to be made for Foden that it is since Bellingham has played in a more attacking role that Foden has been less influential and productive for England. Supposdely 13 of Fodens first 19 apps were in a central role, whereas only 3 of his last 13 apps have been. And Bellingham now further forward will also be more taking up the space centrally more regularly that Foden likes to drift into.
So personally I'd alter the formation to a 4-3-3 rather than a 4-2-3-1. Get Bellingham playing as more of a double pivot with Mainoo ahead of Rice at DM, move Foden to RW and move Saka to LW but give both license to roam and swap. Albeit this would work much better with a left footed LB to ensure we still have width on both sides...alas
I’ve must somehow missed this until now. This is one of the problems. They have been thought that they are great players by same people and media during season. Which I find wierd. Now criticism is coming when people start to realize true quality of them. England team have lot of average players. Lot of them. Even in starting eleven. It is not their fault being picked. You can just try do you best.
Spot on. This is and always has been the issue with Southgate. I've been saying it for years, he's the weakest link in the England setup. Tactically abysmal and a coward to boot.
This is arguably the strongest England setup we've had. In the golden years we had probably a stronger first eleven but abysmal depth, now we finally have good depth albeit a weaker first eleven.
We should be doing significantly better. The Italy final was a clear red flag and warning sign. We don't seem to have any ambition to actually win anything in this country. We seem satisfied turning up and getting into the knockouts, such a weak mentality.
These are England players who by and large have all had brilliant seasons domestically. Yet can't bring that form to the England setup... I wonder why that could be...
It's an honorary position. There's been a royal "President" of the FA since the 1930s.
I watched the entire 15 minute interview and I didn't think it was too bad, but his comments about bigging up the forward players sounds a bit weird. If they really need that to perform, it doesn't sound like they have a great mentality.
Oh absolutely. The coward streak runs through the team, but the vindictive one the press puts out is just as bad.
All countries have their arsehole journalists and all that, but the English media take it to a whole new level.
Still, Kane and Rice absolutely show what Southgate corrupts the squad with. For all the nice guy shtick, he is gutless and the players clearly pick up on that and talk in the same way.
I can't see anything wrong with the Kane and Rice interviews. What else could they have said in response to those questions?
"Get fecked, you were even more shit than us" would have been the better answer but what they said was fine.
"Get fecked, you were even more shit than us" would have been the better answer but what they said was fine.
Well it's a bit early to get carried away slating and praising. England have a lot new names without prep, we've seen other teams have a good opening game or two in the past World Cup then don't get out the group or fall badly in the next phase.
If England showed a bit more invention, the criticism might be less for now at least.
If England showed a bit more invention, the criticism might be less for now at least.
I don't think they are that exceptional to be honest. Not worse than the German media for sure. And English fans tend to be much more forgiving as well. German magazine kicker commented after England's last match "lucky for them that their fans are not like German fans".
The problem isn't the pressure they apply (which is absolutely in line with everybody else) but that there just is no winning culture in England. The German teams is criticised until they win the title, and even then some of the most memorable moments are related to criticism (I think the most memorable quote from the World Cup 2014 is Mertesacker's "ice barrel rant" after they needed extra time against Algeria and where massively attacked by the media for that performance). But they also know that they have a history of winning and know that it's justified and that they can get it done.
Very few English players ever seem to ooze that confidence. They just seem to feel as if they are just the next generation in a long row of failures.
Southgate needs to read Sir Alf Ramsey's memoirs, remember his 'wingless wonders' and dropping Jimmy Greaves for the final won the WC 1966...... if you believe in what you are doing Gareth, stick with it lad. If you don't believe, then try Tarot Cards.
And then when one does [Bellingham], masses of people call him arrogant, cocky, mouthy etc. etc.
The loser mentality has filtered throughout the team and a lot of the fanbase.
Good point about Bellingham.
I don't think I can remember a player being worshipped and put on a pedestal more than Bellingham has over the past year. No one will ever enjoy 100% approval rating but Bellingham is as close as it gets. If anything, the reaction is more to do with how neauseating his characterization has been as some sort of angel/saint/saviour/bestest footballer ever.
Well that would be a start but playing Headless Chicken Gallagher from the start will guarantee him getting his second yellow and suspension for the next game.
Still can’t believe Rashford isn’t with the squad. Poor club form doesn’t always translate to international performances , and Rashford was a gamble Southgate should have taken, as we need pace to compensate for Kane’s lack of mobility.
Surely Palmer got to get a look in if we're shite still.
Was pretty much a one man team for us in attack at times last season and the teams at the Euros largely aren't better than the quality of opposition he's done it against.
Was pretty much a one man team for us in attack at times last season and the teams at the Euros largely aren't better than the quality of opposition he's done it against.
Gordon's there for that, he just doesn't get given the chance.
I've said it before but Rashford was in poor form before the World Cup in 2022. Then he went on to be our best player of the tournament, and came back to United in incredible form. I was hoping Southgate would keep that in mind when selecting the squad, but no. We took some kids that he refuses to play anyway.
whilst gallagher is a CM so its an improvement on trent, its still a terrible indictment on Southgates mindset that gallagher is his preferred candidate to replace him.
Gallagher as a squad option has his place, he can disrupt an opponents midfield and their ability to play with his energy, but in a game where you should have control of the midfield he offers little to me.
Southgate just doesnt know how to use kobbie and has a result would rather avoid playing him.
He’s actively disliked far more than talismanic figures tend to be, in particular for having confidence, swagger, being mouthy and cocky, which are qualities a lot of the very best have and work on harnessing over time. If England had more players with his self-belief, they would perhaps be able to circumvent Southgate’s negativity and dark cloud that’s given carte blanche to act and think like failures waiting to be knocked out and then saying oh well once the inevitable happens.
This is more like how I expected Southgate to set the team up.
Gallagher is essentially 'the new Jordan Henderson' now.
Southgate just isn't capable of setting up a team without a CM and a CDM.
England are playing Slovenia FFS. It's not 1970's Brazil!!
Agreed. Palmer is uniquely suited to leading the attack when others are lost on what to do with the ball. But he can also seamlessly integrate into a front line that’s firing on all cylinders.
I take no pleasure in praising a Chelsea man.
I really don't know where you get the idea he is disliked. As I wrote before, the vibe from the British media is that he is the perfect kid. Of course there is the odd criticism but relatively speaking, he and this English team in general has been loved more than any I can remember. I think whoever dislikes him is coming from a different place though. Rooney was cocky, mouthy and had swagger also and I don't remember people hating him for it. With Bellingham if someone does, I think it's more to do with how manifuctared and PR oriented his persona seems to be. He comes across to some at least, that he is actively trying to hit every perfect button to be worshipped and knows what the British media and public eat up. The kid even said he listens to the Beatles which made Rio, his biggest fan seemingly, joke about how his mother must be on his ear telling him what to say to get even more loved. My perception is he is loved with those who criticize him mainly coming from a place where he is trying too hard to get the attention which is always a turn off if you feel that about someone.
If we forget about Bellingham, the idea that being mouthy, cocky, ... whatever being some common trait among winners get peddled out. Looking at some of the great talismen or great players in general like Zidane, Xavi, Iniesta, Ronaldinho, Modric, Kroos, Pirlo and many many others, how many of these would you say fit that description? It just seems like an easy justification. The way I see it is, if your mouthy and cocky, you bring attention onto yourself, people can then find you a loveable bubbly character like they did Rooney or Gascoigne or they can find you trying too hard to hog the attention like some do Bellingham. Being a winner has nothing to do with it.
So what's your idea? How good this can be?
-------------------------Rice----------------------
---------eze/Taa------------Belli/gall
Saka/palmer---kane/watk---gordon/foden
First written were first choice and should be played with full energy for first 55 minutes. Then subbed all with second options to give full of energised midfield and attack.
I don't think so, he is last on the pecking order of the attacking midfielders atm.
Let’s hope so.
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