England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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eire-red said:
You have to laugh at the comments about replacing Phillips
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Not sure laughing is the right response.
Does he mean it? Is it the pressure getting to him? Is he taking the pi**? Is it a 'brain fart'? :eek:

Just let's hope the England training staff watching that interview, rushed to cover the ears of the players also watching!!
 
MoskvaRed said:
By “reactive”, I’m not talking about attacking or defensive tactics. It’s more about the ability to read a game and to anticipate or pre-empt negative developments.
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Yes, I know. And I'm saying it's not necessary. It's better, but not necessary.

Managers really don't have that big an impact on individual games in general, and even in terms of figuring out what your best team is - which does have a big impact on winning - at the end of the day it's still possible to just fluke your way to the trophy. It's just 7 games. Greece and Portugal won the Euros ffs
 
mintyred said:
Crazy you'd think that after he sent Regi back to Spurs and played Lindelof, Dalot, and AWB at LB.
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To be fair, I’d forgotten that. Really are a remarkable amount of similarities between the two then!
 
To include Shaw (Again not in team training) and not Chillwell or Mitchell says a lot about Southgate.
 
Alex99 said:
To extend it to the World Cup, you've got the group of Argentina, Brazil, France, Germany and Spain that, short of an off-period, you expect to be among the favourites. You can probably add Italy and Portugal to that too. England (under Southgate) are simply never beating one of those sides unless they're in a truly shit period.

Then you've got the next group, which is a bit less static, but in recent(ish) tournaments has included the likes of Belgium, Colombia, Croatia, Denmark, Netherlands, Switzerland and Uruguay, as well as one-off tournament surprises like Costa Rica 2014, Wales 2016 or Morocco 2022 that England (under Southgate) probably go in with a 50/50 chance of beating.
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Its frightening when you think of it.
The simple fact is the FA is not interested in winning trophies.
It just wants to milk the fans by selling merchandise and allowing people who should never be allowed to own football clubs into the English game.

That is why they want 'safe' managers who do not make waves.
 
BabySinclair said:
To include Shaw (Again not in team training) and not Chillwell or Mitchell says a lot about Southgate.
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Such a poor move.
Taking 3, potentially 4 with Konsa , right backs and 1 left back and with that player still fighting to be fit is nothing short of utter stupidity.
 
most england fans and commentators are living in the clouds with their all out attack formation - even Rio with his talk of releasing the handbrake etc.. look at france, who actually win things, no way they are playing a system that gives any room to the opposition, even if that means leaving lots of highly rated forward placers on the bench.
bellinghams played all season as a 10, with 3 world class CMs behind him and now the clamour is for him to play as a CM himself, with 1 DM, with Foden as the 10. then we wonder why players dont perform like they do with their clubs. germany with fritz and muisala would have a field day against that midfield.
 
Red Dreams said:
Its frightening when you think of it.
The simple fact is the FA is not interested in winning trophies.
It just wants to milk the fans by selling merchandise and allowing people who should never be allowed to own football clubs into the English game.

That is why they want 'safe' managers who do not make waves.
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I may be mistaken but I don't think the FA has any power over who is allowed to own an english football club?
 
Red Dreams said:
Its frightening when you think of it.
The simple fact is the FA is not interested in winning trophies.
It just wants to milk the fans by selling merchandise and allowing people who should never be allowed to own football clubs into the English game.

That is why they want 'safe' managers who do not make waves.
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The depressing thing as an England fan is how often we simply fail to win big games unless we're playing a naff team.

France in the last World Cup were definitely in the top bracket, and we lost.

In the last Euros, I'd probably group Germany and Italy in with Denmark in that tier below, given Germany failed to get out of their groups in the World Cups either side, and Italy didn't even qualify for them. The Germany win was nice, but we ended up limping past Denmark and threw away the lead against Italy.

In the World Cup before, Colombia and Croatia were in that tier below the top, and we again limped past Colombia and threw away the lead against Croatia.

We couldn't even beat Netherlands in the first Nations League.

I actually think we were just shit between 2008 and 2016. Some of the players in the squad were awful, but were essentially the best we had.

Then there's the last 'golden generation':

2006 World Cup was a cagey win against Ecuador and then we lost to Portugal.

Euro 2004, lost to Portugal.

2002 World Cup, beat a poor Denmark then lost to Brazil.
 
Alex99 said:
The depressing thing as an England fan is how often we simply fail to win big games unless we're playing a naff team.

France in the last World Cup were definitely in the top bracket, and we lost.

In the last Euros, I'd probably group Germany and Italy in with Denmark in that tier below, given Germany failed to get out of their groups in the World Cups either side, and Italy didn't even qualify for them. The Germany win was nice, but we ended up limping past Denmark and threw away the lead against Italy.

In the World Cup before, Colombia and Croatia were in that tier below the top, and we again limped past Colombia and threw away the lead against Croatia.

We couldn't even beat Netherlands in the first Nations League.

I actually think we were just shit between 2008 and 2016. Some of the players in the squad were awful, but were essentially the best we had.

Then there's the last 'golden generation':

2006 World Cup was a cagey win against Ecuador and then we lost to Portugal.

Euro 2004, lost to Portugal.

2002 World Cup, beat a poor Denmark then lost to Brazil.
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The sooner you come to terms with the reality you're just Tottenham, the happier you'll be
 
Superden said:
most england fans and commentators are living in the clouds with their all out attack formation - even Rio with his talk of releasing the handbrake etc.. look at france, who actually win things, no way they are playing a system that gives any room to the opposition, even if that means leaving lots of highly rated forward placers on the bench.
bellinghams played all season as a 10, with 3 world class CMs behind him and now the clamour is for him to play as a CM himself, with 1 DM, with Foden as the 10. then we wonder why players dont perform like they do with their clubs. germany with fritz and muisala would have a field day against that midfield.
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Thank feck you said this.

Feel like I'm going crazy.

Southgate's comments about Kalvin Phillips literally make sense.
 
giorno said:
The sooner you come to terms with the reality you're just Tottenham, the happier you'll be
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I always think England are going to be shit. I've been conditioned to think that way since I was a kid.

I really enjoyed the 2018 World Cup and the last Euros, even if I think a better manager could have taken us that one step further. The disappointing thing now is how much we've reverted to type, and look far more like the England side that limped through a group containing Algeria, Slovenia and USA in the 2010 World Cup, than we do a side that can actually be at least semi-competitive, despite having a far stronger squad than we did back then.

Ironically, failing to beat Slovenia in the last group game (which isn't looking particularly unlikely) is probably going to land us Germany in the first knockout round, and I wouldn't bet against that one ending 4-1 to the Germans either.
 
MoskvaRed said:
By “reactive”, I’m not talking about attacking or defensive tactics. It’s more about the ability to read a game and to anticipate or pre-empt negative developments. The England Italy final at the last Euros is a textbook example of a manager failing to respond either correctly or in a timely fashion to the flow of the game. Despite it being obvious for at least 20 minutes that an equaliser was coming, he did nothing to try to counter that trend (despite having various quality options on the bench) and meekly waited for the inevitable equaliser before then doing too little and far too late. You could make similar criticisms about the Croatia and France defeats although the Italy game was for me the most glaringly inept managerial performance of the three.
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Yeah the Italy one was easily his most inept managerial performance because they were there for taking but nope relegation gate sat back instead
 
giorno said:
Must you ruin everything? :lol:
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But this is what I am so frustrated with in modern football.

If you don't do extremely well - you're shit. Everything is shit. Football fans nowadays must rate about five players above the age of 24, a million players they've never seen who are teenagers and literally maybe two managers in the entire world.
 
Wumminator said:
But this is what I am so frustrated with in modern football.

If you don't do extremely well - you're shit. Everything is shit. Football fans nowadays must rate about five players above the age of 24, a million players they've never seen who are teenagers and literally maybe two managers in the entire world.
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I don't think that's true. Lots of nations are accepted as just not being good enough, still we see teams win big torunaments like Denmark 1992 or Greece 2004. And there are always a few teams where you think that they could have a chance to do such an outsider run.

And then there are teams like England where you know they should have a real chance to win it. But you know they won't. That's what makes England "spursy". But it doesn't apply to most teams.
 
stefan92 said:
I don't think that's true. Lots of nations are accepted as just not being good enough, still we see teams win big torunaments like Denmark 1992 or Greece 2004. And there are always a few teams where you think that they could have a chance to do such an outsider run.

And then there are teams like England where you know they should have a real chance to win it. But you know they won't. That's what makes England "spursy". But it doesn't apply to most teams.
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When have Spurs ever been favourites, or even second favourites, for anything?
 
stefan92 said:
I don't think that's true. Lots of nations are accepted as just not being good enough, still we see teams win big torunaments like Denmark 1992 or Greece 2004. And there are always a few teams where you think that they could have a chance to do such an outsider run.

And then there are teams like England where you know they should have a real chance to win it. But you know they won't. That's what makes England "spursy". But it doesn't apply to most teams.
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But only one of the favourites can win it! Portugal/Spain/France/England are all great squads! England have done better than most of them at recent tournaments.
 
Wumminator said:
But only one of the favourites can win it! Portugal/Spain/France/England are all great squads! England have done better than most of them at recent tournaments.
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Three of these teams have won a tournament in the last 15 years. England is the one exception.
 
stefan92 said:
Three of these teams have won a tournament in the last 15 years. England is the one exception.
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It doesn't matter a jot what any of them did fifteen years ago. It barely matters what they did four years ago.
 
Wumminator said:
But this is what I am so frustrated with in modern football.

If you don't do extremely well - you're shit. Everything is shit. Football fans nowadays must rate about five players above the age of 24, a million players they've never seen who are teenagers and literally maybe two managers in the entire world.
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I agree with you. You still shouldn't ruin jokes :angel:
 
Lay said:
:lol:
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It's even better when you look at HOW england keeps losing

Since 1990 - penalty shootout, penalty shootout, Ronaldinho fluke goal, penalty shootout(+wrongly disallowed goal+rooney injury), penalty shootout, Lampard phantom goal, penalty shootout, Kane DOUBLE POST, penalty shootout, TCHOUAMENI 30 yard screamer+Kane missed penalty

I'm convinced english fans scapegoat the managers as a coping mechanism because if they accepted the reality that the universe simply fecking hates england they'd go mad
 
giorno said:
It's even better when you look at HOW england keeps losing

Since 1990 - penalty shootout, penalty shootout, Ronaldinho fluke goal, penalty shootout(+wrongly disallowed goal+rooney injury), penalty shootout, Lampard phantom goal, penalty shootout, Kane DOUBLE POST, penalty shootout, TCHOUAMENI 30 yard screamer+Kane missed penalty

I'm convinced english fans scapegoat the managers as a coping mechanism because if they accepted the reality that the universe simply fecking hates england they'd go mad
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Does feel like divine intervention at times. But Southgate isn’t the man for the job, that’s for certain.
 
giorno said:
It's even better when you look at HOW england keeps losing

Since 1990 - penalty shootout, penalty shootout, Ronaldinho fluke goal, penalty shootout(+wrongly disallowed goal+rooney injury), penalty shootout, Lampard phantom goal, penalty shootout, Kane DOUBLE POST, penalty shootout, TCHOUAMENI 30 yard screamer+Kane missed penalty

I'm convinced english fans scapegoat the managers as a coping mechanism because if they accepted the reality that the universe simply fecking hates england they'd go mad
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When that doesn't happen, they lose to the likes of Iceland
 
Lay said:
When that doesn't happen, they lose to the likes of Iceland
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They were crap there. That happens. The times they aren't crap, they lose because literally the Universe goes "hahaha feck you, no"
 
giorno said:
They were crap there. That happens. The times they aren't crap, they lose because literally the Universe goes "hahaha feck you, no"
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It will keep doing so as long as they don't drop the "its coming home". and Southgate their manager.
 
BabySinclair said:
To include Shaw (Again not in team training) and not Chillwell or Mitchell says a lot about Southgate.
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Isn’t this the same Gareth Southgate who brought a player with a broken back who could barely walk — due of course to the broken back — and then chucked him in for the pk shootout, which should have been Shaw and not Rashford, which of course predictably ended in disaster?
 
Judas said:
I've disliked a lot of England managers in my time, but its weird that Southgate takes the top prize given the success we've actually had under him.

It's obvious we're not winning under him and we're wasting yet another tournament.
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Another manager afraid to make big decisions. Another Scholes/Lamps/Gerrard situation. Either sit Foden or move him behind Kane and put a proper LWinger in.
 
I saw his 'not fit enough to press' comments. What a load of bollocks. Getting his excuses in, now. 'Too many games'''
 
I have a conspiracy theory about Shaw….

Taking only one left footed full back with a long term injury is beyond explanation.

Unless you are going to use it as a justification to play an even more defensive formation when he inevitably doesn’t find fitness.

I fully expect 3421 to make an appearance shortly. Something like:

——————Pickford——————
——Walker—Stones—Guehi——
TAA——Mainoo—Rice——Saka
———Foden—Bellingham———
———————Kane———————

Tbh… with Shaw out it is probs now our best option, unless you are gonna risk Saka at LB, which Southgate won’t do in a million years. And we aren’t winning anything with Trippier or any of the CBs on the bench at LB.
 
Superden said:
most england fans and commentators are living in the clouds with their all out attack formation - even Rio with his talk of releasing the handbrake etc.. look at france, who actually win things, no way they are playing a system that gives any room to the opposition, even if that means leaving lots of highly rated forward placers on the bench.
bellinghams played all season as a 10, with 3 world class CMs behind him and now the clamour is for him to play as a CM himself, with 1 DM, with Foden as the 10. then we wonder why players dont perform like they do with their clubs. germany with fritz and muisala would have a field day against that midfield.
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Is Deschamps going to play Camavinga as a LB then?

Just because Madrid does something for a year to accommodate stars on their last year does t mean you change the profile of a player forever. Madrid will be bringing in Wirtz next year. Kroos and maybe modtic leaving …let’s see if they keep playing Jude where they are.

But Jude used to play as a central midfielder for Dortmund and his entire life leading up to Dortmund. He has all the tools to do it, and to imply he doesn’t know how seems odd.

Does he not WANT to? That’s a possibility, but a Bellingham Rice midfield center should not be weak
 
Bluelion7 said:
Is Deschamps going to play Camavinga as a LB then?

Just because Madrid does something for a year to accommodate stars on their last year does t mean you change the profile of a player forever. Madrid will be bringing in Wirtz next year. Kroos and maybe modtic leaving …let’s see if they keep playing Jude where they are.

But Jude used to play as a central midfielder for Dortmund and his entire life leading up to Dortmund. He has all the tools to do it, and to imply he doesn’t know how seems odd.

Does he not WANT to? That’s a possibility, but a Bellingham Rice midfield center should not be weak
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Jude’s a really skilled ball carrier.

Rice is a high energy presser with good defensive instincts.

Neither have a key attribute that all the best midfields have. Tempo setting, metronomic , progressive passing.

And as such for me, will get found out pretty quickly against top opposition.
 
sammyhol said:
——————Pickford——————
——Walker—Stones—Guehi——
TAA——Mainoo—Rice——Saka
———Foden—Bellingham———
———————Kane———————
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That looks quite decent tbh.
 
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