England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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giorno said:
Messi wasn't the guy who made their football work. Xavi was. Did you see what happens to City when Rodri is out?
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City were a dominant side prior to Rodri, when Fernandinho played that role.
Rodri is the best at what he does, but England doesn’t have a KDB either, and Germany 14 didn’t have a Robben or Ribery, and France 18 won it with a striker who didn’t score a single goal.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
You’re significantly underrating those Spanish forwards, some of which are all timers.

And overrating what a few City random players would bring to the team. There’s a reason you don’t see many International teams Try to mimic Peps style. It takes endless drilling of pressing patterns and strict positional rules in possession, which International sides just don’t have the time for. Not to that level of detail. Just getting an extra couple of them in (that aren’t game breakers anyways) won’t turn England into Man City lite.
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I loved David Villa he was a top player, Torres wasn’t the best version of himself.
Even at their best they were two of the best strikers in the world, but they weren’t Messi, who isn’t a normal football player.

I’m not saying England can play to the level of Man City, but they don’t have to.
At the bare minimum they would look like as a somewhat cohesive side and not like a group of strangers who met for the first time.
 
caid said:
Helped to have Busquets and Iniesta too, and pique. Fabregas came from same academy.
Suppose getting alonso and ramos to understand that system was a real leap of faith /s.
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Yes. And having 10 months a year to work with those guys. But then they went to the NT and brought their football with them. The thing is, Spain was successful with Xavi - and never without him. In the same way City look like a completely different side without Rodri. That would be asking a lot of Rico Lewis, who isn't precisely a regular for City yet...
 
You have to laugh at the comments about replacing Phillips. I mean, we're not exactly talking about Pirlo retiring here, are we?

Must be pretty depressing being Mainoo, Wharton and Gallagher, and hearing your manager bemoan a not being able to replace a bang average Phillips. Look what he's done at club level since.

The LB situation is also hilarious. Mitchell and Chilwell not even in the squad, and Shaw hasn't kicked a ball since 2023. So odd.
 
eire-red said:
You have to laugh at the comments about replacing Phillips. I mean, we're not exactly talking about Pirlo retiring here, are we?

Must be pretty depressing being Mainoo, Wharton and Gallagher, and hearing your manager bemoan a not being able to replace a bang average Phillips. Look what he's done at club level since.

The LB situation is also hilarious. Mitchell and Chilwell not even in the squad, and Shaw hasn't kicked a ball since 2023. So odd.
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The fact neither of them were taken with this LB situation is absolutely mental, also feel like Grealish lacked appetite to compete with Doku so got little gametime and Rashford well we know about his strolling around the pitch. The pair of them arrogantly thought we don't need to put in the effort as Gareth will pick us anyway. Hopefully this shock puts the fire into the bellies of them for World Cup qualifying.
 
LankyHoggie said:
City were a dominant side prior to Rodri, when Fernandinho played that role.
Rodri is the best at what he does, but England doesn’t have a KDB either, and Germany 14 didn’t have a Robben or Ribery, and France 18 won it with a striker who didn’t score a single goal.


I loved David Villa he was a top player, Torres wasn’t the best version of himself.
Even at their best they were two of the best strikers in the world, but they weren’t Messi, who isn’t a normal football player.

I’m not saying England can play to the level of Man City, but they don’t have to.
At the bare minimum they would look like as a somewhat cohesive side and not like a group of strangers who met for the first time.
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As did France 1998. Guivarc'h, their main striker didn't hit the net once and they comfortably were crowned world champions with the best defense of the tournament (only two goals conceded with one of these two being a pen). Deschamps was the heart of that team, by the way.

That's not going to happen, Southgate is simply not up to the task.
 
LankyHoggie said:
City were a dominant side prior to Rodri, when Fernandinho played that role.
Rodri is the best at what he does, but England doesn’t have a KDB either, and Germany 14 didn’t have a Robben or Ribery, and France 18 won it with a striker who didn’t score a single goal.
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With Fernandinho and David Silva, yes. Also players England lacks. There isn't an english player good at controlling the tempo, which is paramount for that playing style, as structure and organization are the key - attack too early and you expose yourself to counterattacks, too late and you fail to take advantage of the space you generated, so it's all slow, pointless orizontal passes

England might have a KDB type actually - Palmer - it's the types that make that playing style effective they don't have

Germany had Kroos and Schweinsteiger in midfield. And just enough quality up top in Ozil, Muller, Klose and Gotze to make it work. They, like Spain, won on the strenght of their defence

I’m not saying England can play to the level of Man City, but they don’t have to.
At the bare minimum they would look like as a somewhat cohesive side and not like a group of strangers who met for the first time.
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England lacks the types of players you absolutely must have to play like that effectively instead of just trying to copy structure and "style" with no real concept of it - the key tenets, etc.

A guy who barely plays for City should be pulling the strings for England? I don't think so.

And don't pretend that England being poorly coached has been happening all along. England were a perfectly finely coached team in the previous tournaments - you just didn't like how they played(which was boring, and ugly, granted). The issue is at this tournament
 
christy87 said:
If his plan was to play Trent in midfield, he should of brought Rashford, who would be his ideal winger, Trent’s strengths is cross field balls, foden, saka, Kane Bellingham are all come short players, basically Trent’s weakness is exposed here, play Gordon, to stretch the field and it would play into Trent’s strengths and allow Kane a bit more freedom in the middle of the park.
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Spot on. He looks perplexed 55 minutes into a game when he subs off Trent after watching him play sideways passes because he has no options to use his long range delivery. Failing to test this properly is on him. Even the half hour or so with Grealish and Trent on the park against Bosnia a couple of weeks ago showed there was synergy between the two, because they stretched the play and had the technical ability to exploit it.

So he’s had solutions staring him in the face and decided to sack them off, and then compounded the issues with his lunatic take on the left-back position.
 
Mr safegate doesn’t know how to get the best out of this attacking team. Both attack and midfield. Only thing he is alright with is how to defend!
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
The team you mentioned would wax the starting XI from yesterday. Wharton would find Eze and Palmer in so many pockets that Rice would be trying cover on his own
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Yeah that's what I think too. So how could you take that front 6 and improve it with the other players available, either ones who have been starting or haven't.
 
People are arguing about the players in the system when the manager is the problem. No player change would make much of a difference. Good luck starting a team of mid-table young PL players, if you suggest this you can't criticise Southgate.
 
giorno said:
Messi wasn't the guy who made their football work. Xavi was. Did you see what happens to City when Rodri is out?
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The reason City struggle when Rodri is out is because they don't have another style of player like that, not because Rodri is that good. They basically don't have a proper sitting midfielder when he's out. The geniuses in the football media can't figure that out.
 
mintyred said:
The reason City struggle when Rodri is out is because they don't have another style of player like that, not because Rodri is that good. They basically don't have a proper sitting midfielder when he's out. The geniuses in the football media can't figure that out.
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Yes. And neither does England
 
mintyred said:
The reason City struggle when Rodri is out is because they don't have another style of player like that, not because Rodri is that good. They basically don't have a proper sitting midfielder when he's out. The geniuses in the football media can't figure that out.
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He is that good. A sitting midfielder who is strong defensively but also very good on the ball, who is able to control games at the highest level and also chip in with key goals and assists, would be a top player in any generation.

The reason City don't have a replacement for him is because such players are incredibly rare.
 
DRJosh said:
Here’s a hypothetical. Would ETH do better than Southgate if he was managing England?
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Whatever else he’d have done, I do think Erik would have managed to have an actual left back and left winger playing each match, when given every English player to choose from.
 
mintyred said:
People are arguing about the players in the system when the manager is the problem. No player change would make much of a difference. Good luck starting a team of mid-table young PL players, if you suggest this you can't criticise Southgate.
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It's not even about individual quality but balance. An actual LB playing at LB and an actual midfielder playing in CM could make a massive difference. The options in CM are inexperienced and Southgate put himself in this position re. LB.
 
So is shaw going to be playing any time soon?
Has he been in full training yet?
Not sure I can stand another game with trippier there.
 
Much as I have been critical regarding Southgates credentials as a good coach he has, more often than not, set up England previously in a pragmatic yet balanced style.

But since the breakout of the likes of talents such as Foden, Bellingham, Saka and the likes of Wharton, Palmer and Mainoo it's like these highly talented individuals have almost surpassed Southgates coaching abilities.

Not only has Southgate complicated the teams balance, his playing style is just too pragmatic and lacking in creative vision for these new set of players. His style worked for the likes of Maguire, Henderson and Phillips but he's dealing with something new here.

Simply, the new players talents have surpassed him as a coach.
And I think Foden is a perfect example of that.
 
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The Purley King said:
So is shaw going to be playing any time soon?
Has he been in full training yet?
Not sure I can stand another game with trippier there.
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He has been in some training sessions but still seems to be on his own schedule. I think the best case scenario is that he's ready to come.off the bench vs Slovenia.
 
eire-red said:
You have to laugh at the comments about replacing Phillips. I mean, we're not exactly talking about Pirlo retiring here, are we?

Must be pretty depressing being Mainoo, Wharton and Gallagher, and hearing your manager bemoan a not being able to replace a bang average Phillips. Look what he's done at club level since.

The LB situation is also hilarious. Mitchell and Chilwell not even in the squad, and Shaw hasn't kicked a ball since 2023. So odd.
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Well that's not true.
 
Players aren’t fit enough to press

I’m unsure on what excuse he’s trying to use here exactly. He seems to be suggesting that because Saka and others missed a couple of games from the end of the season that their conditioning has fallen off a cliff.

Or alternatively that after a long season the players are too tired to press, despite the fact most players at the euros have had similar length seasons and don’t seem to have this issue.

Or, is he saying the players as a whole don’t have the physical conditioning to enact his RR style press, despite most of them playing for teams that play a high press?

If the players are knackered, surely you’d see a press for 60-70 mins before they got tired then they’d drop off, rather than whatever the feck that was supposed to be the other night.
 
Southgate’s big achievement in his early days as manager was to restore some sense of normality to the national team. Picking players on form rather than reputation, going for balance rather than shoehorning in the best 11 players, addressing “the shirt weighs heavy” issue. The tactics were unadventurous and he was too reactive to get England over the line to actually win a trophy but it was still a big improvement on recent history (including the bloated “golden generation” years).

This tournament however is a return to the worst aspects of the dark days. Starting with bizarre squad selection (no fit LB and no experience at left forward), followed by making up the team on the hoof in the tournament itself (the TAA experiment) and a lack of balance as various big names are shoehorned upfront at the expense of width or pace. As the final tribute to failed campaigns of the past, we now have rambling press conferences complaining the players are not fit. Omnishambles…
 
Certain things don't change with England. We club fans (and pundits regardless of how they like to pretend) are still very tribal and it seeps into the conversation and how we view the team and who should be playing where.

Trent would have had to have played an absolute blinder both games for any of us to accept him in that position and be convinced he should be playing ahead of Mainoo, who if we're honest, as prodigious as he is, is still learning the role, particularly out of possession. As it happens, the "experiment" has bombed and I'm loving it! I'm sure Jamie Carragher things he needs another shot or should take Walker's spot (which in my opinion would be suicidal).

Annoyed as I am with Rashford's form and seeming lack of interest last term, I'm convinced Southgate made a monumental error leaving him behind. A genuine goal threat who runs in behind is sorely lacking and offers something different. That said, I doubt fans of any other club are thinking, do you know what we're missing? It's Marcus Rashford.

While the likes of Micah Richards pine about changing things around to get the best out of Foden, I think most United fans want him binned. It's something we can't get away from.
 
DRJosh said:
Here’s a hypothetical. Would ETH do better than Southgate if he was managing England?
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England have personnel which would suit his mad 6 and two attacking 8s. I think he'd do pretty well. his record in knockout football is pretty good tbf.
 
ErikElevenHag said:
England have personnel which would suit his mad 6 and two attacking 8s. I think he'd do pretty well. his record in knockout football is pretty good tbf.
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One thing is for sure and that is that he would let Mainoo play.
 
Glorio said:
Certain things don't change with England. We club fans (and pundits regardless of how they like to pretend) are still very tribal and it seeps into the conversation and how we view the team and who should be playing where.

Trent would have had to have played an absolute blinder both games for any of us to accept him in that position and be convinced he should be playing ahead of Mainoo, who if we're honest, as prodigious as he is, is still learning the role, particularly out of possession. As it happens, the "experiment" has bombed and I'm loving it! I'm sure Jamie Carragher things he needs another shot or should take Walker's spot (which in my opinion would be suicidal).

Annoyed as I am with Rashford's form and seeming lack of interest last term, I'm convinced Southgate made a monumental error leaving him behind. A genuine goal threat who runs in behind is sorely lacking and offers something different. That said, I doubt fans of any other club are thinking, do you know what we're missing? It's Marcus Rashford.

While the likes of Micah Richards pine about changing things around to get the best out of Foden, I think most United fans want him binned. It's something we can't get away from.
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The repeated mentions of rashford on here is surely missing the point, gordon offers a lot of the same qualities and was much better than rashford last season. Southgate just isn't playing him. The players are available for southgate to pick a balanced team Gareth is just making a mess of it
 
Doracle said:
Whatever else he’d have done, I do think Erik would have managed to have an actual left back and left winger playing each match, when given every English player to choose from.
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Would he? This is the guy who picked Antony for the left wing
 
Doracle said:
Whatever else he’d have done, I do think Erik would have managed to have an actual left back and left winger playing each match, when given every English player to choose from.
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Crazy you'd think that after he sent Regi back to Spurs and played Lindelof, Dalot, and AWB at LB.
 
Matt851 said:
The repeated mentions of rashford on here is surely missing the point, gordon offers a lot of the same qualities and was much better than rashford last season. Southgate just isn't playing him. The players are available for southgate to pick a balanced team Gareth is just making a mess of it
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I think it's hilarious that people think we're missing Rashford, he's garbage and doesn't even start regularly for England when in the squad. I wish we had a player that contributes nothing offensively or defensively, that's what we need.
 
MoskvaRed said:
The tactics were unadventurous and he was too reactive to get England over the line to actually win a trophy but it was still a big improvement on recent history
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This is nonsense. You don't need an adventurous, proactive manager to win tournaments. In general I mean
ErikElevenHag said:
England have personnel which would suit his mad 6 and two attacking 8s. I think he'd do pretty well. his record in knockout football is pretty good tbf.
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England don't have a 6 that works for that actually. That 442 video postee by @#07 does an excellent breakdown of england's issues.

Other possible issue is fitness. That one is actually the most important because if you're this knackered now, at the second game, you have no chance, even if Southgate somehow magically finds the perfect coaching/tactical fix
 
Southgate said the players aren't fit enough to press. He sounds more and more like Ole every day.
 
BuzzKillington said:
Players aren’t fit enough to press

I’m unsure on what excuse he’s trying to use here exactly. He seems to be suggesting that because Saka and others missed a couple of games from the end of the season that their conditioning has fallen off a cliff.

Or alternatively that after a long season the players are too tired to press, despite the fact most players at the euros have had similar length seasons and don’t seem to have this issue.

Or, is he saying the players as a whole don’t have the physical conditioning to enact his RR style press, despite most of them playing for teams that play a high press?

If the players are knackered, surely you’d see a press for 60-70 mins before they got tired then they’d drop off, rather than whatever the feck that was supposed to be the other night.
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Yeah I don’t understand this at all.
Does it mean he thinks that the PL season is more tiring than other leagues’? I would think there are plenty of Euro 2024 squads with large contingents of PL players if so.
It’s true that most of the forward players he’s starting have played long seasons for big clubs who competed right until the end of the season, but then nothing is stopping him from not starting the exact same XI in both matches so far.
 
giorno said:
This is nonsense. You don't need an adventurous, proactive manager to win tournaments. In general I mean

England don't have a 6 that works for that actually. That 442 video postee by @#07 does an excellent breakdown of england's issues.

Other possible issue is fitness. That one is actually the most important because if you're this knackered now, at the second game, you have no chance, even if Southgate somehow magically finds the perfect coaching/tactical fix
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By “reactive”, I’m not talking about attacking or defensive tactics. It’s more about the ability to read a game and to anticipate or pre-empt negative developments. The England Italy final at the last Euros is a textbook example of a manager failing to respond either correctly or in a timely fashion to the flow of the game. Despite it being obvious for at least 20 minutes that an equaliser was coming, he did nothing to try to counter that trend (despite having various quality options on the bench) and meekly waited for the inevitable equaliser before then doing too little and far too late. You could make similar criticisms about the Croatia and France defeats although the Italy game was for me the most glaringly inept managerial performance of the three.
 
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