England Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion

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I haven’t seen too much of Mainoo but I have seen a lot of Wharton and am not sure I recall him giving the ball away in half a season. Always looks to pass forwards and the pass is on the money nearly every time. Eze and Olise have had a field day dropping in to the pockets as they know he’ll find them.

The Carrick comparison is a good one.
 
Blood Mage said:
Am I delusional in thinking Mainoo is better than anyone who played in an England shirt tonight apart from Eze and Kane maybe.
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Not really no. But for me, Kobbie’s competing with players who he is very unlikely to be picked ahead of in his best position ( 8 )

Rice (arsenal position), Bellingham, Foden….

Kobbie can do a job in a double pivot, and would probably work quite well with Rice. But he’s not a proper 6 for me.

That Wharton lad looks more natural in that role than Rice for me.

But I’d be happy with any pair from those 3 behind Bellingham.
 
Shipperley said:
I haven’t seen too much of Mainoo but I have seen a lot of Wharton and am not sure I recall him giving the ball away in half a season. Always looks to pass forwards and the pass is on the money nearly every time.

Eze and Olise have had a field day dropping in to the pockets as they know he’ll find them. The Carrick comparison is a good one.
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Have seen next to nothing of him but even just from that small cameo for England I can see why there's hype around him, lovely tempo to his play, seems to make his mind up very quickly about what to do with the ball and gets on with it instead of dwelling like you see so many players do.
 
Shipperley said:
Got zero worries about him going anywhere this summer tbf, things couldn’t be going much better for him and there are 3 or 4 that will be ahead of him in the queue to move. I don’t see any scenario where we will sell him this summer (unless he has a release clause, but why would he want to move at this point even if he does?).
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Don’t really like your club (sorry).

But really hope that you guys retain him, Olise and Eze for a season. No idea what contractual chicanery you can offer. But keep those three fit, under a new and exciting manager, and I could see you having a great season.

Upsetting that that might mean 10th, and a great League or FA Cup run. But I really yearn for the days when mid table clubs had proper quality.
 
It's actually pretty crazy how many goals England players scored last season. With Kane, Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Watkins, Saka and Bowen we have a lot of goals in that team.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
What gives him the edge?
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It's pretty early (Mainoo is a child and I've watched Wharton like 5 times now) but so far it looks like Wharton is better defensively, so for England it's a choice between a water-carrier like Wharton or someone like Mainoo who isn't as ready off the ball/defensively but also can keep it and play in tight spaces better.

If you pick Mainoo, you get more fluidity when you have the ball and a rare England player (only Grealish and Stones seem to consistently do it after years of Pep coaching) who can slow down the tempo repeatedly. If you pick Wharton, you're probably exposing the CBs less and freeing up Rice a bit more.

So might be less about them and more about the opponents and if they're sitting off or not and what kind of game you think England's weak left side on defence can handle.
 
Red Rash said:
It's actually pretty crazy how many goals England players scored last season. With Kane, Bellingham, Palmer, Foden, Watkins, Saka and Bowen we have a lot of goals in that team.
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Yeah, would be surprising if England's finishing or desire to get on the end of things is a problem. Issues are always controlling the midfield, keeper (Pickford has improved but he's still not like an elite keeper), LB and pace at CB. Typical England issues we all remember from Carrick not being picked, players like Robert Green being in the team and non Ashley Cole LBs of the last 30 years, and obviously there's a top class CB shortage for England now with no Rio, Terry or Campbells and only Stones (and I guess now Quansah) getting minutes at the 3 English club sides that are CL contenders.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Don’t really like your club (sorry).

But really hope that you guys retain him, Olise and Eze for a season. No idea what contractual chicanery you can offer. But keep those three fit, under a new and exciting manager, and I could see you having a great season.

Upsetting that that might mean 10th, and a great League or FA Cup run. But I really yearn for the days when mid table clubs had proper quality.
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We just finished 10th and had half a season of Royball and big injuries, no reason we couldn’t aim for Europe if we keep the core together. People forget we also have Cheick Doucoure to come back in and this time last year Liverpool were sniffing around him for £60m. A Doucoure and Wharton CM partnership is about as good as it gets for a club like Palace.
 
sammyhol said:
Not really no. But for me, Kobbie’s competing with players who he is very unlikely to be picked ahead of in his best position ( 8 )

Rice (arsenal position), Bellingham, Foden….

Kobbie can do a job in a double pivot, and would probably work quite well with Rice. But he’s not a proper 6 for me.

That Wharton lad looks more natural in that role than Rice for me.

But I’d be happy with any pair from those 3 behind Bellingham.
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The double pivot is about a 6 and an 8 who can dictate from deep. Mainoo and Wharton are both. I fully expect Wharton to go as Ejce cover and Mainoo as TAA's competion as the partner.
 
NoPace said:
They're very different. If England had a stronger back 4 I might pick Mainoo, but I think you need Wharton and Rice to protect England's back 4. Might be a bit lacking in creativity though, which Mainoo would help with, but I'd rather start out with a solid side and look to make a change if you need to or switch the wide players.
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With a Wharton type in there deep lying creativity wouldn't be an issue
 
sammyhol said:
For me, it’s that he plays in the position to free Rice into the role he has been playing for Arsenal.

......
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Rice should never play the role he plays for Asenal with England. The defence isn't as good and the system isn't as fluid nor as well understood by the players because it's international football. It isn't a system they all play together month in month out.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
Rice should never play the role he plays for Asenal with England. The defence isn't as good and the system isn't as fluid nor as well understood by the players because it's international football. It isn't a system they all play together month in month out.
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I’m not saying he should.

I just tend to agree that Wharton would offer Rice the license to get forward more, which is where he tends to do his best work.

I don’t actually like Rice as the deepest midfielder. He is defensively and positionally sound, but I don’t think he is very good at playing crisp penetrating balls along the ground from deep… lots of sideways/backwards stuff.

Wharton on the other hand looks very good at that scanning and progressive passing.

To be honest, I’d be happy with any pair of rice, Mainoo or Wharton. Which will make it all the more painful when Gallagher inevitably gets picked.
 
sammyhol said:
To be honest, I’d be happy with any pair of rice, Mainoo or Wharton. Which will make it all the more painful when Gallagher inevitably gets picked.
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I was ready with the hot take of Jones over Gallagher because Jones played so well in a midfield 2 last summer for the U-21 team and Gallagher tends to run around like a chicken with his head cut off, but Chelsea ending the season well with Gallagher in a midfield 2 probably means he's still worth taking, just not starting.
 
Shipperley said:
We just finished 10th and had half a season of Royball and big injuries, no reason we couldn’t aim for Europe if we keep the core together. People forget we also have Cheick Doucoure to come back in and this time last year Liverpool were sniffing around him for £60m. A Doucoure and Wharton CM partnership is about as good as it gets for a club like Palace.
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Yeah. I really hope you keep it all together.

The top 7/8 looks like a closed shop though. Weakest team there is United based on what looks like a summer of turmoil.

Maybe you guys could sneak in, but you need all the big players to stay and that gonna be hard to ensure.
 
PoTMS said:
Do you think our scouts have done a good job over the last, let's say 10-15 years? If I remember correctly, we have a crazy number of scouts.
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In a Wharton type scenario it’s also more than just good scouting, you need to convince the player that your club is the right place for them to take the next step. Palace must be an attractive option for any Championship prospect when you look at the trajectory of Eze, Olise and Guehi in particular.

I am not sure a move to Utd would have made much sense to him back in January, you’d think the very first requirement when considering his options would be guaranteed gametime.
 
sammyhol said:
I’m not saying he should.

I just tend to agree that Wharton would offer Rice the license to get forward more, which is where he tends to do his best work.

I don’t actually like Rice as the deepest midfielder. He is defensively and positionally sound, but I don’t think he is very good at playing crisp penetrating balls along the ground from deep… lots of sideways/backwards stuff.

Wharton on the other hand looks very good at that scanning and progressive passing.

To be honest, I’d be happy with any pair of rice, Mainoo or Wharton. Which will make it all the more painful when Gallagher inevitably gets picked.
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Gallagher has done nothing to show why he should be in the Euro. If Southgate has some balls and considering this is his last tournement with England, he should pick both Mainoo and Wharton to go as each shows different kind of trades that can work against different opponents. With Mainoo, the link up play with the forward will be better and Mainoo is a good finisher so in a tight match he is likely the guy who can make the difference, eg. vs Pool and vs City.
 
When the post-tournament analysis begins, a crucial factor in evaluating things will be Gareth Southgate's failure to sign Mbappe when he was available .
 
Feels like there's some really tough calls for Gareth to make, especially if some players fitness is a huge question mark at the end of the week.

Assuming everyone is fit, I'd probably say only these are 'nailed on' to go:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Trippier
Bellingham, Rice, Trent, Gallagher, Mainoo
Foden, Saka, Palmer, Gordon
Kane

Can make solid arguments for many a player really, but if fit enough I don't see a world where any of those 16 are left out and I think they'd play the majority of the minutes.
 
Havak said:
Feels like there's some really tough calls for Gareth to make, especially if some players fitness is a huge question mark at the end of the week.

Assuming everyone is fit, I'd probably say only these are 'nailed on' to go:

Pickford
Walker, Stones, Maguire, Shaw, Trippier
Bellingham, Rice, Trent, Gallagher, Mainoo
Foden, Saka, Palmer, Gordon
Kane

Can make solid arguments for many a player really, but if fit enough I don't see a world where any of those 16 are left out and I think they'd play the majority of the minutes.
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Am I the only one who looks at these wide options and think its quite lopsided?
They're all, predominately, right sided attackers.

Unpopular opinion but I still think Rashford should be a option.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Am I the only one who looks at these wide options and think its quite lopsided?
They're all, predominately, right sided attackers.

Unpopular opinion but I still think Rashford should be a option.
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? Gordon is not a right sided attacker.
 
Watched Southgate's interview yesterday, he gave big compliment to both Wharton and Gallagher. Look like the risk of Mainoo being left out of the final squad increases now.
 
FootballAI said:
Watched Southgate's interview yesterday, he gave big compliment to both Wharton and Gallagher. Look like the risk of Mainoo being left out of the final squad increases now.
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Not at all. Southgate will laud his players after a win, it's normal.
 
FrankDrebin said:
Am I the only one who looks at these wide options and think its quite lopsided?
They're all, predominately, right sided attackers.

Unpopular opinion but I still think Rashford should be a option.
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Gordon had the majority of his starts from the left, while Foden is almost an even split over the course of the season at LW/AM/RW. He finished the season very strongly and became more of a LW for City with Grealish being the one to miss out in that side a lot. Foden would only really move when Pep wanted to get Doku in the side against particular opponents.

But even if you look at the 33-man squad as a whole, Grealish is the only other who predominately plays there. You'd think Eze as well (and so would I), but even he started 9 times from the left and 16 at no.10 (and once from the right). Point being for me though, I don't think Grealish or Eze are 'nailed on' to be on the plane. I think it's probably a close run thing in Southgate's opinion of it being one or the other... Or could even be a world where both go depending on what he feels they offer the squad. Eze being more comfortable in three positions could sway it.
 
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SilentWitness said:
? Gordon is not a right sided attacker.
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I assumed he was. I remember him playing there on occasions.

Still, supposed generational talents in Foden, Saka and Palmer all far stronger on the right side is a nice issue to have for Gareth but a issue nonetheless.

Interms of form, I think Foden takes the right side role. I think he's been comfortably one of the best attackers in Europe this year and just seems to be getting better and better.
 
Berbasbullet said:
3/4 are aren’t they?
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Palmer and Saka definitely.

Foden to a lesser extent, he's kind of a jack of all trades across the front line but probably best in that AM role. Gordon is not a predominantly right sided attacker, he's a LW.

I think Bowen looks the most in danger of being dropped due to the options at RW though and Eze has put himself in a good position to get called up along with Grealish for the LW options.
 
And, similar to Rashford, Grealish's form hasn't been particularly good this year.
 
If Foden plays centrally, what happens to Bellingham ?

Good options to have but I'm still not sold on England's balance.
I'm not even sure if GS knows his first 11.
 
FrankDrebin said:
And, similar to Rashford, Grealish's form hasn't been particularly good this year.
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Agree, Grealish has not been impressive at all this year, seems Pep trusts Doku more to make an impact whenever he needs a sub LW to come on. Eze played quite well yesterday so he has an upper hand over Gordon and Grealish.

Bowen did not play well yesterday. Cole Palmer may get picked over him and since Cole Palmer can also be AM, that would be an attractive option for GS to consider over Bowen.

For now, Gordon, Maddison and Grealish are at high risk being left out and only one of those may get picked. The main reason is that Foden will be either LW or AM, so if Southgate needs 4 players to cover that 2 positions, that would be Bellingham, Foden, Eze and only one of these 3 above.
 
Does England really not have any other left back than Luke Shaw? :lol:
 
FrankDrebin said:
If Foden plays centrally, what happens to Bellingham ?

Good options to have but I'm still not sold on England's balance.
I'm not even sure if GS knows his first 11.
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You're right about the balance but the best managers end up being able to resolve that conundrum and are happy to make a top player a bench casualty in order to benefit the team.
 
FrankDrebin said:
If Foden plays centrally, what happens to Bellingham ?

Good options to have but I'm still not sold on England's balance.
I'm not even sure if GS knows his first 11.
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Picking the best XI is quite difficult, I think only one of the CM roles and the LW role have some kind of question mark and it depends who is deemed as the best players in the squad along with if a system can get the best out of them.

Pickford
Walker Stones Maguire Shaw
????? Rice
Saka Bellingham Foden
Kane​

Something like this is what I expect to be our 'best' line-up with Gallagher/Trent/Mainoo being the other CM. Against weaker opponents, it may be the case that Bellingham & Foden play in midfield with Rice (I can even see this working against some good sides if it clicks) and that's how Eze/Grealish get in the side. Or even Palmer at no.10 with Bellingham deeper. There are options, I just don't know if we can dominate a game against the other top European nations without adding that more defensive/box-to-box midfield player. Maybe we wouldn't be able to do that anyway, but I think most fans with any tactical nouse would have similar views.

But yeah, as seen in my 'nailed on to go' list, I'm picking the same players when I go for the strongest line-ups. The back 4 picks itself if all fit, Trippier is clearly the 5th pick for defenders. Palmer is clearly the next winger/central attacking midfielder in line after Saka/Bellingham/Foden. Gallagher/Trent/Mainoo are fighting for one position which makes me think it's slightly more difficult for Jones/Wharton to be definite picks in the squad unless any of these players are seen to be more of a Rice back-up.

And for what it's worth, I think Watkins/Toney could be fighting for one place, but depending on which other cuts are made then maybe both are selected. I agree with those who have said Bowen is at risk because I think Saka will start the tournament, Palmer is second choice on that side but I can see him even pushing Saka out of the side. Then I think if there are really unlucky injuries/suspensions, it is more likely that Gareth opts to move Foden there rather than pick Bowen...
 
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