Duncan Castles : Jose Mourinho on collision course with Ed Woodward over Manchester United transfers

[Oneunited26]

Mourinho has been brought in to do a job and he is doing it the only way he knows how. I remember the outcry when he spent 30m on milito who was around 30, and similar on Lucio who was even older. He bought Eto'o too. I don't remember too many moaning about it when Inter won the treble that same year. Many on here were wanking themselves stupid over his genius, as his tactical masterclass humbled the seemingly unbeatable Barcelona!

Yet ironically, it now appears such genius was far more commendable and far better appreciated when someone else was paying for it.

Bottom line is you don't win titles buying under developed players for their resale value. You win titles with established experienced players due to their reliability and their experience. In the past 5 years how many teams have won the PL title or the CL with a young developing team? Spurs are a young developing team, how many trophies or titles have they won so far? Arsenal last won the title in 2005 with an experienced team, how have they done since placing emphasis on youth development?

All this talk about value for this, and is it worth the other, yet it still guarantees nothing. The value comes from what you win on the pitch. Think of the young players we have bought for development and resale value: nani, anderson, jones smalling, Da silvas, henrique, forlan, varela, bebe, etc, the list is huge. None have worked out as planned, and i doubt we would make any worthwhile profit from resale. We bought Depay as an investment, to develop him as a star of the future. how did that work out? Where was the value there? A complete and utter waste of time and effort for everyone involved. That is the nature of the risk you take when you are buying a possibility and not a finished article. Is that any less of a risk than buying as close to a guarantee as you can get as Jose prefers to do?

How about RVP for an example. Flew in the face of everything SAF had been advocating for the few years previous. An injury prone 28yrold for 25m who we sell 2 seasons later for a quarter of what we paid. Yet did that seemingly illogical investment represent value for this club, or not? The value was in what we did on the pitch, what we won. Buying what the team needed - and for no other consideration- gave SAf the chance to walk off into the sunset as a PL winner.

Now try and stick a feckin value on that!

Mourinho doesn't give a toss about resale value or waiting 2 seasons for developing youngsters. Winning brings in more revenue from publicity, sponsorship and marketing opportunities for a club like Utd, than reselling players or developing youth ever will. I'm fairly certain the board would have been fully aware of those potential opportunities before they hired him too.

You comparing apples and oranges to fit a narrative, fergie won a PL left the club and there you a vacum left by fergie because his way did not allow the club to have a smooth transition, tell me how the value was since 2013 was? A PL title win with 4 years of being a complete circus, don't think the club want another vacuum when mourinho leaves.

RVP by some miracles arsenal agreed to sell to us for what I call a affordable price who improved our starting 11, even fergie was stunned they sold RVP to us, when he was already big player for arsenal, inter want a price so unrealistic it's a joke. And you don't win titles losing a player like zlaten and pay and arm and a leg for pretty average 28 year old players who will do a job when the striker we want Madrid don't seem fussed on selling, and then after spending 60 million wants more on a position not improved. RVP was a vocal point, what we getting from perisic is not Much but we spent a fortune for very little return by just doing a job. You highlighted Nani and Anderson, yet played a vital role in one of our most successful periods in the clubs history, with Nani I argue assisting and big time, plus again they did cost the club money that is well beyond their means and every club has a limit

You saying the club knew very well, hmmm? So mourinho moans about he wants a settled club but does the same stunts that got him fired at other clubs, seems he is not learning. The club wants to win, but top clubs when their building will have summers where it's less spending because they expect a pay off. If he cannot coach some of these attacking players he already has, don't think throwing more money on players who won't improve is much seems pretty recklace. And no one can expect the club to spend that much on ageing players, if we going to improve 6th to first, perisic and Matic will add very little to improve the level. So reallys it's spending for the sake of it, with not much improvement

 

[red_devil83]

I'm firmly in the "do not overpay for average players" camp. Perisic should be £25m MAX. If Inter don't want to sell, he should be kicking up a stink and forcing a transfer to get the price down, otherwise, feck off.

Morata is similarly WAY overpriced for a player who has shown basically nothing outside of RM. However, given the circumstances and the dearth of any remotely credible alternatives, I'm inclined to think we need to have him before the pre-season tour. Overpaying for one key position I can just about tolerate. After all, how can we can plan a system of playing without a CF?

This whole article strikes me as made up shit anyway. I'm sure Jose and Ed have each others phone numbers!

Anyone with common sense can see that the reported targets are hideously overpriced and do not represent any kind of value. Nor are they of sufficient quality to go some way towards justifying the excessive outlay. If I can see that, then I'm sure Jose can too.

 

[don't sign old players]

Mourinho has been brought in to do a job and he is doing it the only way he knows how. I remember the outcry when he spent 30m on milito who was around 30, and similar on Lucio who was even older. He bought Eto'o too. I don't remember too many moaning about it when Inter won the treble that same year. Many on here were wanking themselves stupid over his genius, as his tactical masterclass humbled the seemingly unbeatable Barcelona!

Yet ironically, it now appears such genius was far more commendable and far better appreciated when someone else was paying for it.

Bottom line is you don't win titles buying under developed players for their resale value. You win titles with established experienced players due to their reliability and their experience. In the past 5 years how many teams have won the PL title or the CL with a young developing team? Spurs are a young developing team, how many trophies or titles have they won so far? Arsenal last won the title in 2005 with an experienced team, how have they done since placing emphasis on youth development?

All this talk about value for this, and is it worth the other, yet it still guarantees nothing. The value comes from what you win on the pitch. Think of the young players we have bought for development and resale value: nani, anderson, jones smalling, Da silvas, henrique, forlan, varela, bebe, etc, the list is huge. None have worked out as planned, and i doubt we would make any worthwhile profit from resale. We bought Depay as an investment, to develop him as a star of the future. how did that work out? Where was the value there? A complete and utter waste of time and effort for everyone involved. That is the nature of the risk you take when you are buying a possibility and not a finished article. Is that any less of a risk than buying as close to a guarantee as you can get as Jose prefers to do?

How about RVP for an example. Flew in the face of everything SAF had been advocating for the few years previous. An injury prone 28yrold for 25m who we sell 2 seasons later for a quarter of what we paid. Yet did that seemingly illogical investment represent value for this club, or not? The value was in what we did on the pitch, what we won. Buying what the team needed - and for no other consideration- gave SAf the chance to walk off into the sunset as a PL winner.

Now try and stick a feckin value on that!

Mourinho doesn't give a toss about resale value or waiting 2 seasons for developing youngsters. Winning brings in more revenue from publicity, sponsorship and marketing opportunities for a club like Utd, than reselling players or developing youth ever will. I'm fairly certain the board would have been fully aware of those potential opportunities before they hired him too.

You can't compare our situation to a team that was heading for 5 Italian championships in succession. Almost every player in Real Madrid first team was signed by them at age 21 or less, Carvajal, Marcelo, Ramos,Asensio, Isco, Casemiro, Varane, Benzema et, al. The others were signed before the age of 25, Ronaldo, Kroos, Navas. The dominant team before Real Madrid was Barca which was built on great youth players that entered the first team at young age.
Internazionale is a singular example, and a team on the verge of 5 national championships.

 

[Dante]

You can't compare our situation to a team that was heading for 5 Italian championships in succession. Almost every player in Real Madrid first team was signed by them at age 21 or less, Carvajal, Marcelo, Ramos,Asensio, Isco, Casemiro, Varane, Benzema et, al. The others were signed before the age of 25, Ronaldo, Kroos, Navas. The dominant team before Real Madrid was Barca which was built on great youth players that entered the first team at young age.
Internazionale is a singular example, and a team on the verge of 5 national championships.

You could have just told him to read your username.

 

[dichinero]

Mourinho has been brought in to do a job and he is doing it the only way he knows how. I remember the outcry when he spent 30m on milito who was around 30, and similar on Lucio who was even older. He bought Eto'o too.

These players were some of the best around in that era and were at the top of their game. That is like going in for the likes of Lewandowski and Ramos. I'm not sure the likes of Perisic and Matic are even close. Incomparable situations.

 

[Klopp_De_Klown]

I dont believe it.

I think there is some substance to it but a rift? No. I think he's disapointed deals are not done yet. But I think some of these deals need the SAF touch, as in similar personal input and Jose is probably not that type of manager. His holiday is family time and club business can take a back seat. Instructions were left and thats that. See you July 8th!

 

[BluesJr]

You can't compare our situation to a team that was heading for 5 Italian championships in succession. Almost every player in Real Madrid first team was signed by them at age 21 or less, Carvajal, Marcelo, Ramos,Asensio, Isco, Casemiro, Varane, Benzema et, al. The others were signed before the age of 25, Ronaldo, Kroos, Navas. The dominant team before Real Madrid was Barca which was built on great youth players that entered the first team at young age.
Internazionale is a singular example, and a team on the verge of 5 national championships.

Sadly not enough people grasp this concept. Signing players at 28-29 for huge money is just daft and is such a dumb move as it forces us into a corner we shouldn't be in. We should be targeting the best talent at 20-25 and signing and building a team that can have a strong present and then future.

 

[goin4glory]

You can't compare our situation to a team that was heading for 5 Italian championships in succession. Almost every player in Real Madrid first team was signed by them at age 21 or less, Carvajal, Marcelo, Ramos,Asensio, Isco, Casemiro, Varane, Benzema et, al. The others were signed before the age of 25, Ronaldo, Kroos, Navas. The dominant team before Real Madrid was Barca which was built on great youth players that entered the first team at young age.
Internazionale is a singular example, and a team on the verge of 5 national championships.

How about Alonso/Modric/Bale/Pepe/James? Just the usual 200m outlay you forgot to mention.

 

[Jaybomb]

Oh, how I missed those “blessing in disguise”!

I'm not one of those who would rather see Rashford over Ibra. But now that Ibra is gone, I think we should put our faith in Rashford.

 

[don't sign old players]

How about Alonso/Modric/Bale/Pepe/James? Just the usual 200m outlay you forgot to mention.

They got almost 10 years out of Pepe. Not too bad, and Modric is a fantastic player. James was about 22 when they signed him, Bale was about 24. Just off the top of my head I didn't think of everyone.

 

[Phil]

I was really optimistic about our summer recruit after we won the Europa.

I thought we would definitely get Griezmann and at least one other world class attacker.

I could not be more pessimistic about the players we are going to sign this summer. It's going to be massively disappointing.

Morata aside I feel the same at the moment. It's deflating.

 

[ti vu]

You comparing apples and oranges to fit a narrative, fergie won a PL left the club and there you a vacum left by fergie because his way did not allow the club to have a smooth transition, tell me how the value was since 2013 was? A PL title win with 4 years of being a complete circus, don't think the club want another vacuum when mourinho leaves.

RVP by some miracles arsenal agreed to sell to us for what I call a affordable price who improved our starting 11, even fergie was stunned they sold RVP to us, when he was already big player for arsenal, inter want a price so unrealistic it's a joke. And you don't win titles losing a player like zlaten and pay and arm and a leg for pretty average 28 year old players who will do a job when the striker we want Madrid don't seem fussed on selling, and then after spending 60 million wants more on a position not improved. RVP was a vocal point, what we getting from perisic is not Much but we spent a fortune for very little return by just doing a job. You highlighted Nani and Anderson, yet played a vital role in one of our most successful periods in the clubs history, with Nani I argue assisting and big time, plus again they did cost the club money that is well beyond their means and every club has a limit

You saying the club knew very well, hmmm? So mourinho moans about he wants a settled club but does the same stunts that got him fired at other clubs, seems he is not learning. The club wants to win, but top clubs when their building will have summers where it's less spending because they expect a pay off. If he cannot coach some of these attacking players he already has, don't think throwing more money on players who won't improve is much seems pretty recklace. And no one can expect the club to spend that much on ageing players, if we going to improve 6th to first, perisic and Matic will add very little to improve the level. So reallys it's spending for the sake of it, with not much improvement

Your mindset is strange. So instead of supporting the manager so he can stay, you add more pressure from the failed managers onto this one & enforcing a strange policy at the club: not fully back the manager! (just because those 2 failed managers). The current manager's signings ain't that comparing apple and orange to SAF's. It's a big fat myth that SAF's gungho with young players & no experienced players to help mentoring the younger players. If anything, SAF's keyword is stability, continuity which mean experience can be passed down to next generation. You can't do that having players that have to learn all by themselves.

You talked as if there is no risk involved signing RVP & Arsenal were just that stupid to prefer more money from us than selling abroad to Juventus. Let's rewind to remember that RVP was hardly fit at all over his career up to this point. He only had one full season after ages. There as a huge debate whether this gamble was worth it. What if RVP couldn't sustain his fitness like last season for Arsenal, let alone the form... Club record signing at the time was just around 5mil more. If it's an easy going money in SAF's eye like you put it & Arsenal being stupid, why SAF had a hard time accepting Hazard's agent fee which was not much in the scheme of thing? I meant resale value & stuff.

If anything, SAF value players' intention to want to join the club. If it's just pure money & players just want to posture then he prefers looking elsewhere. No resale value bs. That's not far different than Mourinho whom also wants the players with the certain mentality. Winning, elevate the status of a big club is worth much more than any resale value.

SAF didn't buy Ronaldo for that resale value. He wanted him to win to build the team to win. It's a shame Ronaldo wanted Madrid, and we were forced to sell. Do our bad sale added up & we're facing financial crisis like our internet accounting experts think? Or we're looking to even do better with a team that can win thing despite the bad resale value in the past?

Sadly not enough people grasp this concept. Signing players at 28-29 for huge money is just daft and is such a dumb move as it forces us into a corner we shouldn't be in. We should be targeting the best talent at 20-25 and signing and building a team that can have a strong present and then future.

One question: Galaticos version 1 vs Arsenal since their youth, Tottenham, Dortmund... till this moment; which was more successful? Take resale value into equation too.

 

[Oneunited26]

Your mindset is strange. So instead of supporting the manager so he can stay, you add more pressure from the failed managers onto this one & enforcing a strange policy at the club: not fully back the manager! (just because those 2 failed managers). The current manager's signings ain't that comparing apple and orange to SAF's. It's a big fat myth that SAF's gungho with young players & no experienced players to help mentoring the younger players. If anything, SAF's keyword is stability, continuity which mean experience can be passed down to next generation. You can't do that having players that have to learn all by themselves.

You talked as if there is no risk involved signing RVP & Arsenal were just that stupid to prefer more money from us than selling abroad to Juventus. Let's rewind to remember that RVP was hardly fit at all over his career up to this point. He only had one full season after ages. There as a huge debate whether this gamble was worth it. What if RVP couldn't sustain his fitness like last season for Arsenal, let alone the form... Club record signing at the time was just around 5mil more. If it's an easy going money in SAF's eye like you put it & Arsenal being stupid, why SAF had a hard time accepting Hazard's agent fee which was not much in the scheme of thing? I meant resale value & stuff.

If anything, SAF value players' intention to want to join the club. If it's just pure money & players just want to posture then he prefers looking elsewhere. No resale value bs. That's not far different than Mourinho whom also wants the players with the certain mentality. Winning, elevate the status of a big club is worth much more than any resale value.

SAF didn't buy Ronaldo for that resale value. He wanted him to win to build the team to win. It's a shame Ronaldo wanted Madrid, and we were forced to sell. Do our bad sale added up & we're facing financial crisis like our internet accounting experts think? Or we're looking to even do better with a team that can win thing despite the bad resale value in the past?

Signing RVP was worth the risk when he was affordable, and he was world class striker who can win you matches. This player is 28 going 29, will do a job that's it. If the club is signing older players for big fees they got to make an impact. It's worth signing older players when you feel yeah he will make the impact.

What you talking about? Instead of supporting the manager, season has not started yet, just because he's our manager does not mean I won't question signing a player who is peaking, for that money that is crazy to spend when that money could be used elsewhere. I'm pretty sure there is more players beyond perisic lol.

Again you comparing arsenals top goal scorer at the time, to a ok winger that won't change the dynamics on how we hurt sides much. The club should back the manager to a point, but mourinho must realise there is a tipping point on when a club is taking the piss. When older players are signed for that kind of money, you expecting more than what will most likely be on show.

The point is with who we are linked with, if we signed them our position won't improve much, which is why the signings are being questioned

 

[apotheosis]

You can't compare our situation to a team that was heading for 5 Italian championships in succession. Almost every player in Real Madrid first team was signed by them at age 21 or less, Carvajal, Marcelo, Ramos,Asensio, Isco, Casemiro, Varane, Benzema et, al. The others were signed before the age of 25, Ronaldo, Kroos, Navas. The dominant team before Real Madrid was Barca which was built on great youth players that entered the first team at young age.
Internazionale is a singular example, and a team on the verge of 5 national championships.

Really? you are picking out Real Madrid who can buy whoever they want at any time and for any price, and failing to see the irony in then highlighting inter as a singular example. Then Barcelona, a freak of a team containing some of the best players ever! that's like looking at Fergie's class of 92 and saying that's how we need to do it? We bloody well know that, it's actually reproducing it that's the problem. you cannot hold up the most extreme examples as a basis for general reasoning. They are exceptions to the rule for a reason.

However you look at it all the most successful teams have been experienced ones, established reliable performers who know their roles. inter may have had special circumstances, but there is a general theme amongst most title winners, experienced and established. If development is what the club were after, then they should have looked at Pochettino, but we didn't. We got Mourinho, warts and all, and he only does things his way. His way wins titles, always has, and that's why the club wanted him. Anyone expecting anything else from mourinho are in for a disappointment. Just hope he gets it right! If not he'll be out, but he won't change, he's all or nothing! do the club want to gamble or fold? that's your choice when you hire mourinho.

 

[don't sign old players]

Really? you are picking out Real Madrid who can buy whoever they want at any time and for any price, and failing to see the irony in then highlighting inter as a singular example. Then Barcelona, a freak of a team containing some of the best players ever! that's like looking at Fergie's class of 92 and saying that's how we need to do it? We bloody well know that, it's actually reproducing it that's the problem. you cannot hold up the most extreme examples as a basis for general reasoning. They are exceptions to the rule for a reason.

However you look at it all the most successful teams have been experienced ones, established reliable performers who know their roles. inter may have had special circumstances, but there is a general theme amongst most title winners, experienced and established. If development is what the club were after, then they should have looked at Pochettino, but we didn't. We got Mourinho, warts and all, and he only does things his way. His way wins titles, always has, and that's why the club wanted him. Anyone expecting anything else from mourinho are in for a disappointment. Just hope he gets it right! If not he'll be out, but he won't change, he's all or nothing! do the club want to gamble or fold? that's your choice when you hire mourinho.

I don't regard Barcelona as a singular example. Ajax has won 4 CLs on the basis of youth team players. Bayern Munich in 1970s won 3 in a row. Muller, Beckenbauer et, al. played together for long time but teenage Rummenigge came to put the icing on the cake.
Red Star Belgrade built fantastic team from Yugoslavian youth team. And you cited SAFs Co92. I agree that reproducing it is a big problem, but I think we should be geared towards doing that, irrespective of what Jose has in mind.
You're right when you say the most successful teams are experienced ones, teams that have played together for a long time, but you can really only get that from signing younger players.

 

[apotheosis]

Signing RVP was worth the risk when he was affordable, and he was world class striker who can win you matches. This player is 28 going 29, will do a job that's it. If the club is signing older players for big fees they got to make an impact. It's worth signing older players when you feel yeah he will make the impact.

this is what i have been saying to you before. the value is on the impact they have on the pitch. why else would you think mourinho wants to sign them? This is how mourinho continually justifies his methods, by targeting players to give him the qualities he desires for the team. He has got it right on so many occasions, and that's why we brought him in. We can question the quality of the signings of course, but the club can't, How can they judge a potential player's role or it's value to the team? They have hired him to do a job based specifically upon what he has achieved before, and therefore he will expect them to back his judgement.

He doesn't care what the club have to spend to give him what he needs, he knows it will all be forgotten if he wins the title, which if he gets what he wants, he will fully expect to.

 

[apotheosis]

I don't regard Barcelona as a singular example. Ajax has won 4 CLs on the basis of youth team players. Bayern Munich in 1970s won 3 in a row. Muller, Beckenbauer et, al. played together for long time but teenage Rummenigge came to put the icing on the cake.
Red Star Belgrade built fantastic team from Yugoslavian youth team. And you cited SAFs Co92. I agree that reproducing it is a big problem, but I think we should be geared towards doing that, irrespective of what Jose has in mind.
You're right when you say the most successful teams are experienced ones, teams that have played together for a long time, but you can really only get that from signing younger players.

that may have been true in those times, but note how far back you have had to go for continued success in that fashion. seems there was quite a few too, far fewer than today.

this is the age of instant success, look at the clamor for signings. no-one wants to wait, not really, not these days. Development takes vision from within the club. Barcelona had the youth, but Rikjaards Barca was still littered with Galacticos. Pep got rid of sixteen established players and promoted many of his youth, and the tici taca style. But without Pep's initial vision to take the club in that direction, someone with influence pushing the club to take such a huge gamble, it certainly wouldn't have happened as swiftly as it did.

anyway point being, Mourinho's priority is winning, that's his focus, greater emphasis on development may come once success has been achieved. I hope so personally, i am no fan of mourinho's methods, nor his football, but i am accepting of the fact he is what he is and i place no expectation of him being anything else. But he knows what he is doing, and when he is given what he needs, he gets the job done. Let's hope he gets it right and everyone's happy!

 

[ti vu]

Signing RVP was worth the risk when he was affordable, and he was world class striker who can win you matches. This player is 28 going 29, will do a job that's it. If the club is signing older players for big fees they got to make an impact. It's worth signing older players when you feel yeah he will make the impact.

What you talking about? Instead of supporting the manager, season has not started yet, just because he's our manager does not mean I won't question signing a player who is peaking, for that money that is crazy to spend when that money could be used elsewhere. I'm pretty sure there is more players beyond perisic lol.

Again you comparing arsenals top goal scorer at the time, to a ok winger that won't change the dynamics on how we hurt sides much. The club should back the manager to a point, but mourinho must realise there is a tipping point on when a club is taking the piss. When older players are signed for that kind of money, you expecting more than what will most likely be on show

Read what you wrote. So the manager wants his target. You expected we don't sign that target the manager want & instead, start thinking about when Mourinho leaves, due to the previous 2 failed managers made bad signing with old players. Moyes' failure was his own doing as time proved. That aging team SAF left with that quality in the hand of a better manager would have fared better.

You're forcing your view all with hindsight. There were strong argument against signing RVP at the time with Kagawa signing so supporting Rooney who had a productive season. RVP's injury record was no joke. He scored good amount for Arsenal the previous season, but not guaranteed world class after pne good season for a team challenging for nothing. His performance for a team who look to challenge was still questionable at the time we signed him. There was question mark on him whether he was another big fish in small pond looking at Arsenal's export: Cesc, Nasri, Adebayor... doing at their new clubs.

What is affordable? As I put it: only around 5mil lessl from our record signing Berbatov. SAF found it difficult to sanction similar amount for Hazard's agent? Without hindsight, would you take Gundogan last summer after a fitter season? Still in good age. Had great season few years ago, then had a good season after long injury plague period?

You're putting your opinion above everything even above Mourinho's judgement. Clearly he saw that player can impact & wanted that signing, and here you're going with same old line that you think those targets wouldn't make impact, yet as far what I saw, you haven't given any detail about the profile that you think that make that impact. Beside Perisic, who do think that's acquirable in case you don't question Mourinho's profile for this winger? All you said is signing young players with potential which as I said we already have plenty young players in different positions in our hand to develop.

 

[don't sign old players]

that may have been true in those times, but note how far back you have had to go for continued success in that fashion. seems there was quite a few too, far fewer than today.

this is the age of instant success, look at the clamor for signings. no-one wants to wait, not really, not these days. Development takes vision from within the club. Barcelona had the youth, but Rikjaards Barca was still littered with Galacticos. Pep got rid of sixteen established players and promoted many of his youth, and the tici taca style. But without Pep's initial vision to take the club in that direction, someone with influence pushing the club to take such a huge gamble, it certainly wouldn't have happened as swiftly as it did.

anyway point being, Mourinho's priority is winning, that's his focus, greater emphasis on development may come once success has been achieved. I hope so personally, i am no fan of mourinho's methods, nor his football, but i am accepting of the fact he is what he is and i place no expectation of him being anything else. But he knows what he is doing, and when he is given what he needs, he gets the job done. Let's hope he gets it right and everyone's happy!

Fair enough, I can't argue with this. I just don't expect instant success, but Jose is a genius if he manages to obtain it. I really think he needs time.
People talk about the impact of RVP, Milito at Inter, but conveniently forget they arrived at the best teams in their respective countries. We're coming from 6th place. A stopgap or 2 isn't going to change things much at all.

 

[Womp]

Fair enough, I can't argue with this. I just don't expect instant success, but Jose is a genius if he manages to obtain it. I really think he needs time.
People talk about the impact of RVP, Milito at Inter, but conveniently forget they arrived at the best teams in their respective countries. We're coming from 6th place. A stopgap or 2 isn't going to change things much at all.

It will if those stop gaps are actually the right sort of players we need for our system. I'm as underwhelmed as anyone else when it comes to the idea of us signing Perisic and Matic, but if they're what we need going forward, so be it.

It's frustrating they're both older and will need to be replaced in a few years, but money isn't an issue for us.

 

[shamans]

Am I the only one that wouldn't mind us not signing anyone?

We won the Europa and League Cup with what we had. We lost Zlatan sure but there's every chance he might be signed up again when he recovers.

Rashford and Martial can get their chance up top which could be a blessing in disguise. A long time ago, everyone was mad that we sold Van Nistelrooy and only had Ronaldo and Rooney. That summer, Carrick was our only signing. And look how that worked out.

It's not all bad. Some of these players we're linked with, I personally have no interest in seeing at United. Fabinho is probably the only one I'd want out of the main three (Morata, Perisic, Fabinho)

I don't think Perisic would be a 50 million improvement on what we have already... as for Morata, that price makes Pogba look like a bargain. We should develop Martial and Rashford instead of getting our trousers pulled down on a bench warmer who's absense won't even hurt Madrid.

You said you wanted us to sign Javier Hernandez in another thread.

 

[worcesterred]

If Jose has identified a player then I trust his judgment. We should sign who he wants us to.

 

[11101]

Am I the only one that wouldn't mind us not signing anyone?

We won the Europa and League Cup with what we had. We lost Zlatan sure but there's every chance he might be signed up again when he recovers.

Rashford and Martial can get their chance up top which could be a blessing in disguise. A long time ago, everyone was mad that we sold Van Nistelrooy and only had Ronaldo and Rooney. That summer, Carrick was our only signing. And look how that worked out.

It's not all bad. Some of these players we're linked with, I personally have no interest in seeing at United. Fabinho is probably the only one I'd want out of the main three (Morata, Perisic, Fabinho)

I don't think Perisic would be a 50 million improvement on what we have already... as for Morata, that price makes Pogba look like a bargain. We should develop Martial and Rashford instead of getting our trousers pulled down on a bench warmer who's absense won't even hurt Madrid.

I'd rather us not sign anyone than sign for the sake of signing (any of the rumours) or get ripped off for unproven players (Mbappe). If we did that and then dont win everything in sight next season we'd get the usual 'they've spent 253 million billion since SAF left and my dog's Sunday league team plays better football' lines from Graham Souness & Co all season long.

However Mourinho does want players and has given the names to Woodward a long time ago. It's a big failure that we've only signed one of them so far with the tour just a few days away. The only saving grace is none of our rivals have really done much yet either.

 

[Tosicsleftpeg]

The youth be experience thing is an interesting debate, I do feel experience is definitely far better for short term gain as had been said on here several times.

To give an analogy in simple terms, in my local Saturday league there is a side who barely have any young players and allot are over 30 and don't have the legs but they all know how to play and how to win and win the league most years. I see it all the time, 6 a side teams with older guys usually boss the local little league there as well where the younger lads who do have alot of pace and skill want glory and make the wrong choice alot of the time.

 

[ti vu]

The youth be experience thing is an interesting debate, I do feel experience is definitely far better for short term gain as had been said on here several times.

To give an analogy in simple terms, in my local Saturday league there is a side who barely have any young players and allot are over 30 and don't have the legs but they all know how to play and how to win and win the league most years. I see it all the time, 6 a side teams with older guys usually boss the local little league there as well where the younger lads who do have alot of pace and skill want glory and make the wrong choice alot of the time.

I don't think you have to choose one or the other. You can get both like SAF did with all his teams. It's the balance between adding young players in with the backbone of leadership from the veteran. And experience is not measured by age. Vidic was fairly young & new to the team when he was made vice captain, acting as captain most of the time due to Neville's injuries.

Here the signings of Perisic & Morata, it's more about the profile, what they add to the team that we lack. Similar thing can be said regarding Matic, but he seems to be down the list. I am myself not sold that we're really in for Matic like the papers trying to sell.

 

[KM]

Wish we'd stop imposing impossible expectations on Rashford and Martial, especially when it comes to flippantly comparing them with two of the best young performers (in tangible terms) of the last 2 decades. Rooney was a Ballon D'Or Top 10 player at age 19, and Ronaldo averaged Ballon D'Or 17th in 2005 and 2006 apart from featuring in the UEFA Team of the Year at age 19 - neither Rashford nor Martial are close to that level, and our season could well crash and burn with them up top given how inconsistent their decision-making is - which is entirely understandable given the progression of their careers to date. Not to mention, we don't have bedrock players like Giggs, Rio, Neville, close to peak Scholes to anchor the entire team in the absence of more experienced players in key positions. We definitely need the reinforcements - even though they don't seem appealing at face value, as long as they fit Mourinho's vision - he's a master of extracting the maximum out of relatively un-fancied teams provided they follow his tactical plan.

Fantastic post.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I still believe it's bullshit

 

[Coxy]

Am I the only one that wouldn't mind us not signing anyone?

We won the Europa and League Cup with what we had. We lost Zlatan sure but there's every chance he might be signed up again when he recovers.

Rashford and Martial can get their chance up top which could be a blessing in disguise. A long time ago, everyone was mad that we sold Van Nistelrooy and only had Ronaldo and Rooney. That summer, Carrick was our only signing. And look how that worked out.

It's not all bad. Some of these players we're linked with, I personally have no interest in seeing at United. Fabinho is probably the only one I'd want out of the main three (Morata, Perisic, Fabinho)

I don't think Perisic would be a 50 million improvement on what we have already... as for Morata, that price makes Pogba look like a bargain. We should develop Martial and Rashford instead of getting our trousers pulled down on a bench warmer who's absense won't even hurt Madrid.

You finished 6th for a reason.

You should mind if you don't sign anyone.

 

[SqueakyWeasel]

Maybe he's out in NZ because a certain player (or their agent) on the CL list is out that way at the mo (it's SH winter and constantly raining so I've no idea why) or perhaps his brother Clive gave him some free tickets to the second test that were too good to pass up! Either way, the guy is a good luck charm … think Leprechaun's silent assassin and you won't be too far off. Yes it's tongue in cheek before anyone goes off on one!

 

[CG1010]

Wish this sort of stuff didn't come out publicly, it just puts Woodword under pressure and weakens our hand in negotiations, and achieves nothing more than Mourinho speaking to Woodword in private. I can't see Woodword taking signing players lightly - which is hard to image as he is such a muppet + this being a key window for us to get back to challenging for PL next season.

 

[Sultan]

Mourinho has been brought in to do a job and he is doing it the only way he knows how. I remember the outcry when he spent 30m on milito who was around 30, and similar on Lucio who was even older. He bought Eto'o too. I don't remember too many moaning about it when Inter won the treble that same year. Many on here were wanking themselves stupid over his genius, as his tactical masterclass humbled the seemingly unbeatable Barcelona!

Yet ironically, it now appears such genius was far more commendable and far better appreciated when someone else was paying for it.

Bottom line is you don't win titles buying under developed players for their resale value. You win titles with established experienced players due to their reliability and their experience. In the past 5 years how many teams have won the PL title or the CL with a young developing team? Spurs are a young developing team, how many trophies or titles have they won so far? Arsenal last won the title in 2005 with an experienced team, how have they done since placing emphasis on youth development?

All this talk about value for this, and is it worth the other, yet it still guarantees nothing. The value comes from what you win on the pitch. Think of the young players we have bought for development and resale value: nani, anderson, jones smalling, Da silvas, henrique, forlan, varela, bebe, etc, the list is huge. None have worked out as planned, and i doubt we would make any worthwhile profit from resale. We bought Depay as an investment, to develop him as a star of the future. how did that work out? Where was the value there? A complete and utter waste of time and effort for everyone involved. That is the nature of the risk you take when you are buying a possibility and not a finished article. Is that any less of a risk than buying as close to a guarantee as you can get as Jose prefers to do?

How about RVP for an example. Flew in the face of everything SAF had been advocating for the few years previous. An injury prone 28yrold for 25m who we sell 2 seasons later for a quarter of what we paid. Yet did that seemingly illogical investment represent value for this club, or not? The value was in what we did on the pitch, what we won. Buying what the team needed - and for no other consideration- gave SAf the chance to walk off into the sunset as a PL winner.

Now try and stick a feckin value on that!

Mourinho doesn't give a toss about resale value or waiting 2 seasons for developing youngsters. Winning brings in more revenue from publicity, sponsorship and marketing opportunities for a club like Utd, than reselling players or developing youth ever will. I'm fairly certain the board would have been fully aware of those potential opportunities before they hired him too.

United have been down the players with experience route over the last few years, and have mostly failed.

Let's begin to put a verdict on the experience we have purchased over the last few years. I'd say, the following have mostly been what I would personally say not good acquisitions. Fellaini, Falcao, Valdes, Morgan, Bastian, Di Maria. You could argue all these had been purchased by Moyes and LvG who were basically bad acquisitions themselves.

Mourinho was pretty spot on with his Zlatan and Mikhi purchases of experienced players. I don't remember many posters complaining about those purchases. On the question of youth: Bailly, Martial and Rashford have been the players who have lit up Old Trafford over the last couple of seasons.

 

[Oneunited26]

this is what i have been saying to you before. the value is on the impact they have on the pitch. why else would you think mourinho wants to sign them? This is how mourinho continually justifies his methods, by targeting players to give him the qualities he desires for the team. He has got it right on so many occasions, and that's why we brought him in. We can question the quality of the signings of course, but the club can't, How can they judge a potential player's role or it's value to the team? They have hired him to do a job based specifically upon what he has achieved before, and therefore he will expect them to back his judgement.

He doesn't care what the club have to spend to give him what he needs, he knows it will all be forgotten if he wins the title, which if he gets what he wants, he will fully expect to.

And matic and perisic don't fit that profile, just ok players dumped on the scrap heap for money that is obscene, that don't improve or squad, just players signed for the sake of it. They don't improve our side, and next year he be wanting more money. For that kind of money we be expecting them to be 24 not closer to 30. It's buying for the sake of buying which does not solve a problem, but create new ones

 

[Oneunited26]

Read what you wrote. So the manager wants his target. You expected we don't sign that target the manager want & instead, start thinking about when Mourinho leaves, due to the previous 2 failed managers made bad signing with old players. Moyes' failure was his own doing as time proved. That aging team SAF left with that quality in the hand of a better manager would have fared better.

You're forcing your view all with hindsight. There were strong argument against signing RVP at the time with Kagawa signing so supporting Rooney who had a productive season. RVP's injury record was no joke. He scored good amount for Arsenal the previous season, but not guaranteed world class after pne good season for a team challenging for nothing. His performance for a team who look to challenge was still questionable at the time we signed him. There was question mark on him whether he was another big fish in small pond looking at Arsenal's export: Cesc, Nasri, Adebayor... doing at their new clubs.

What is affordable? As I put it: only around 5mil lessl from our record signing Berbatov. SAF found it difficult to sanction similar amount for Hazard's agent? Without hindsight, would you take Gundogan last summer after a fitter season? Still in good age. Had great season few years ago, then had a good season after long injury plague period?

You're putting your opinion above everything even above Mourinho's judgement. Clearly he saw that player can impact & wanted that signing, and here you're going with same old line that you think those targets wouldn't make impact, yet as far what I saw, you haven't given any detail about the profile that you think that make that impact. Beside Perisic, who do think that's acquirable in case you don't question Mourinho's profile for this winger? All you said is signing young players with potential which as I said we already have plenty young players in different positions in our hand to develop.

The club is more important than the manager, and like always with mourinho he's already creating drama which for me he won't get to year 4 at united. Putting my opinion above mourinho's judgement? Half the cafe do that. And there is not another club out there that would pay that amount of money for those 2 players, if perisic was that good, why isn't anyone else after him? We don't see a cue of clubs after him which sums the player up. And I would rather we sign nobody, than throw money at a problem that is not solved, if it's not better than what we have got, then it's not solving a problem meaning it's wasting money. I am glad ed is putting his foot down on these clubs fantasy prices

 

[Igor Drefljak]

I do understand Jose frustration but if all is true, I also agree with not overpaying, especially for older players.
I know money isn't a thing, but spending potentially 80m on Perisic and Matic is bad business. Both have no resale value.

I said in an earlier topic that signing one older player is fine because going in with a very young squad isn't always wise. Both players mentioned are good players, but are they top players? Why would Chelsea let Matic leave for us if that was the case?

Pogba is looking like a normal fee this year with the money being quoted for players, and it's only going to get worse, so if you overpay for a youngish player, you're not going to lose.

 

[Lawman]

Wouldn't actually mind some players aged 27-31 in the team for a bit no how. Valencia Herrera and Mykytarin apart in the starting line up can't think of many more. Mata is not an automatic starter.

 

[apotheosis]

Fair enough, I can't argue with this. I just don't expect instant success, but Jose is a genius if he manages to obtain it. I really think he needs time.
People talk about the impact of RVP, Milito at Inter, but conveniently forget they arrived at the best teams in their respective countries. We're coming from 6th place. A stopgap or 2 isn't going to change things much at all.

Maybe, but look at Chelsea. they went from 7th to champions in one season. They signed mainly defensive players last season. Kante, Luiz and Alonso. Although the change of system applied by Conte seemed to have had more effect upon the group in general than any particular signing. Fingers crossed we may do the same.

 

[Lawman]

I do understand Jose frustration but if all is true, I also agree with not overpaying, especially for older players.
I know money isn't a thing, but spending potentially 80m on Perisic and Matic is bad business. Both have no resale value.

I said in an earlier topic that signing one older player is fine because going in with a very young squad isn't always wise. Both players mentioned are good players, but are they top players? Why would Chelsea let Matic leave for us if that was the case?

Pogba is looking like a normal fee this year with the money being quoted for players, and it's only going to get worse, so if you overpay for a youngish player, you're not going to lose.

Unless they turn out like a Babel or Depay etc? I'm more in the camp of get a solid first 11 that is capable of playing anyone and then add the shiny toys. Unless a special player like a Dembele or a Mbappe type are available and willing to sign.
Bottom line is we need to be back in the top 3 asap.

 

[Igor Drefljak]

Unless they turn out like a Babel or Depay etc? I'm more in the camp of get a solid first 11 that is capable of playing anyone and then add the shiny toys. Unless a special player like a Dembele or a Mbappe type are available and willing to sign.
Bottom line is we need to be back in the top 3 asap.

That is true, and when I meant young players, I meant the likes of Fabinho instead of Matic.
Fabinho has clearly put out there that he'd move to United and he'd be costing similar sorts of money to Matic, so it's really a no brainer

 

[don't sign old players]

Maybe, but look at Chelsea. they went from 7th to champions in one season. They signed mainly defensive players last season. Kante, Luiz and Alonso. Although the change of system applied by Conte seemed to have had more effect upon the group in general than any particular signing. Fingers crossed we may do the same.

From champions to 7th to champions. I expected Kante to have a huge impact just as he did in Leicester City. He's right in his prime and a brilliant addition to any team. He makes Conte's system really function.

 

[apotheosis]

I do understand Jose frustration but if all is true, I also agree with not overpaying, especially for older players.
I know money isn't a thing, but spending potentially 80m on Perisic and Matic is bad business. Both have no resale value.

Been trying to highlight this point, it's only bad business if we don't win anything. If we win the title do you honestly believe anyone on the board will give a toss about the lack of resale value for 2 players, while they are busy counting their potential new earnings from increased sponsorship and marketing revenues? Big picture Igor, it's not about sell on value for individuals, but what the team achieve as a group, that's where the value comes in.