[Siorac]

If you still think Ole signed Donny at this stage then you need to seek professional help my friend. Quite clearly a club signing.

Never seen a manager treat one of their signings this way before which makes me think it definitely wasn't his signing to begin with.

Yeah, no. You can't make this argument to absolve him and then credit him for squad building at the same time. Maybe all our good signings are club signings as well then.

Also, was Sancho a club signing, too? Because he's getting the same treatment now.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Yeah, no. You can't make this argument to absolve him and then credit him for squad building at the same time. Maybe all our good signings are club signings as well then.

Also, was Sancho a club signing, too? Because he's getting the same treatment now.

Who is absolving him? Ole clearly didn't want Donny. That's pretty much guaranteed at this point.

LVG and Jose have both confirmed the club signed players for them they didn't choose during their time here. Nothing has changed. Ole hasn't made the call on all these signings but people just want to blame literally everything on him because it makes them feel a bit better.

Honest question.....would you rather see Sancho starting in a 433 and Cavani on the bench then?

Sancho hasnt got a goal or assist in 12 apps. That's not good enough. Rashford has 3 goals in 4 this season. Who deserves to play?

 

[Siorac]

Who is absolving him? Ole clearly didn't want Donny. That's pretty much guaranteed at this point.

LVG and Jose have both confirmed the club signed players for them they didn't choose during their time here. Nothing has changed. Ole hasn't made the call on all these signings but people just want to blame literally everything on him because it makes them feel a bit better.

Honest question.....would you rather see Sancho starting in a 433 and Cavani on the bench then?

Sancho hasnt got a goal or assist in 12 apps. That's not good enough. Rashford has 3 goals in 4 this season. Who deserves to play?

The problem isn't necessarily Sancho or Donny. Though I have to say I'd much rather see Sancho given more opportunities than fecking Lingard. What is the upside of persisting with 29 year old Lingard? We saw him at his very best and even that isn't that spectacular to be worth it. But I digress.

The point is that Ole was supposed to represent continuity and stability and long-term planning and his major plus was supposed to be leaving a great squad to his successor, not the unbalanced mess he inherited.

Yet here we are three years into his reign where we're experimenting with a totally different formation than what the squad has been built for, when 100m worth of signings can't even get a look in and Jesse Lingard is preferred ahead of them. Not to mention that the experiment seems to rely on a 36 and a 34 year old.

There is, once again, no planning, we're lurching from one game to the next, from one disaster to the next false dawn... making it up as we go along. Everything is about the short-term results, except it's not a 'challenge for big trophies at the expense of long-term prospects', it's stumbling into top 4 and saving the job of a poor manager.

 

[NZT-One]

Who is absolving him? Ole clearly didn't want Donny. That's pretty much guaranteed at this point.

LVG and Jose have both confirmed the club signed players for them they didn't choose during their time here. Nothing has changed. Ole hasn't made the call on all these signings but people just want to blame literally everything on him because it makes them feel a bit better.

Honest question.....would you rather see Sancho starting in a 433 and Cavani on the bench then?

Sancho hasnt got a goal or assist in 12 apps. That's not good enough. Rashford has 3 goals in 4 this season. Who deserves to play?

If you think, that Sancho has to get more goals and assists than Rashford to play, I'd have a strong case that you need professional help as well ^^ Sancho has been bought to create stuff from the right-wing. Not to score goals in sub-appearances playing for counters.

I mean, I get what you are saying, we should find a formation that suits as much of our inform-players as possible while making sure we are 1) defensively stable and 2) able to create some good chances. If that formation is 3-5-2 (5-2-1-2) now and Sancho misses out, so be it. It isn't like he set the world alight which might be down to the manager not knowing how to utilize him (very possible) but just as much down to him needing to adjust himself to the speed and "foul culture" of the PL.

 

[Borys]

I can't wait for him to leave purely for the fact people can then shut up about him for 5 mins.

Has he been given a fair crack compared to others? Possibly not. However he's not been overly impressive when he has played for me. Still only has 1 goal for the club too which isn't great as he has had enough time on the pitch to get more than that for sure.

Seem like every week that goes by where he doesn't play he becomes better and better in the eyes of our fans.

Similar thing happening with Sancho now. People crying for him to play but if it's a choice of changing formation and starting Cavani over Sancho then I'd choose that every day of the week. Cavani is on another level to Sancho as a footballer. This isn't the German league where teams have their pants pulled down regularly.

Donny situation is much different to Sancho though. He's competing with Greenwood, who has been possibly our best attacking player this season, and Rashford, who seems to be in good goal scoring form and shape after comeback. It's perfectly understandable Jadon is not getting game time.

Van de Beek is competing against very mediocre and out of form midfielders (McTominay, Fred, Pogba). There's no reason not to play him, and yet Ole sticks to what he knows (and what isn't working this season).

 

[clarkydaz]

Ole would more likely pull a fan from the crowd to play than give him any minutes. Really odd situation

 

[Nou_Camp99]

If you think, that Sancho has to get more goals and assists than Rashford to play, I'd have a strong case that you need professional help as well ^^ Sancho has been bought to create stuff from the right-wing. Not to score goals in sub-appearances playing for counters.

I mean, I get what you are saying, we should find a formation that suits as much of our inform-players as possible while making sure we are 1) defensively stable and 2) able to create some good chances. If that formation is 3-5-2 (5-2-1-2) now and Sancho misses out, so be it. It isn't like he set the world alight which might be down to the manager not knowing how to utilize him (very possible) but just as much down to him needing to adjust himself to the speed and "foul culture" of the PL.

He's not made a single goal yet though has he?

I did say this on the Sancho transfer thread and got lambasted for it. German football is tragically bad. Werner, Havertz and Sancho are struggling badly. Still relatively early days for Sancho compared to the other two but the signs aren't good.

Sancho's form for England is more like what we are seeing for Utd.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Donny situation is much different to Sancho though. He's competing with Greenwood, who has been possibly our best attacking player this season, and Rashford, who seems to be in good goal scoring form and shape after comeback. It's perfectly understandable Jadon is not getting game time.

Van de Beek is competing against very mediocre and out of form midfielders (McTominay, Fred, Pogba). There's no reason not to play him, and yet Ole sticks to what he knows (and what isn't working this season).

Don't disagree. He's not been given a fair crack like others have but I just think it's Ole's way of telling the club 'dont buy players I didn't ask for' personally.

Donny to leave in January and say we sign Bissouma or Kessie and I'd be delighted. I don't support Donny FC. I support Manchester United.

 

[Borys]

Don't disagree. He's not been given a fair crack like others have but I just think it's Ole's way of telling the club 'dont buy players I didn't ask for' personally.

Donny to leave in January and say we sign Bissouma or Kessie and I'd be delighted. I don't support Donny FC. I support Manchester United.

I support Manchester United too, that's why I've been advocating giving Donny a chance in Fred's place (especially if we're sticking with 352). Not because I want him to play for the sake of it, but I strongly believe we could be a better team. If we stick to McTominay Fred, we know what we're getting and that's not enough.
Bissouma or Kessie better be Ole signings, because otherwise this circus is going to continue.
But I have a feeling Ole will be gone before van de Beek.

 

[NZT-One]

I support Manchester United too, that's why I've been advocating giving Donny a chance in Fred's place (especially if we're sticking with 352). Not because I want him to play for the sake of it, but I strongly believe we could be a better team. If we stick to McTominay Fred, we know what we're getting and that's not enough.
Bissouma or Kessie better be Ole signings, because otherwise this circus is going to continue.
But I have a feeling Ole will be gone before van de Beek.

I share that feeling but Ole isn't the only problem that VDB has, isn't it. His strongest traits are his quick feet and good interplay connected with finding little spaces of room. He comes from a possession based team. How big are the chances we are turning into that even with with a new manager? So while I totally agree with you, DVB should definitely get a chance on constant basis in midfield, I don't think, that will ever get the best out of him. And if that is the case, I am heavily leaning towards "get rid" as long as some of his value is still intact.

We should go for some vanilla players for a while. All these Pogbas and VDB, round pegs for square wholes. As if we don't have enough issues without that sort of stuff. Will never understand why we didn't just went for Hojberg for merely 14 million or didn't just went for Docoure before he went to Everton. Of course they aren't world stars but they are easy to integrate in any team, formation or approach you want to play.

 

[Borys]

I share that feeling but Ole isn't the only problem that VDB has, isn't it. His strongest traits are his quick feet and good interplay connected with finding little spaces of room. He comes from a possession based team. How big are the chances we are turning into that even with with a new manager? So while I totally agree with you, DVB should definitely get a chance on constant basis in midfield, I don't think, that will ever get the best out of him. And if that is the case, I am heavily leaning towards "get rid" as long as some of his value is still intact.

I don't think we have seen enough to make a judgement he will/he will not make it here. Paradoxically, he might be exactly the type of player the future United team will be build on.
Current United team is very weird animal, I think the coaching staff have no idea what midfield is supposed to be doing and seem to focus mostly on defensive and offensive formation. For example defensive line is also responsible for retaining possession and getting the ball to front line. Midfielders role is very limited but I am sure it won't always be that way.
Hard to say if van de Beek can play a role in that "future team", but Ole is doing everything he can not to find out which is bizarre.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Donny situation is much different to Sancho though. He's competing with Greenwood, who has been possibly our best attacking player this season, and Rashford, who seems to be in good goal scoring form and shape after comeback. It's perfectly understandable Jadon is not getting game time.

Van de Beek is competing against very mediocre and out of form midfielders (McTominay, Fred, Pogba). There's no reason not to play him, and yet Ole sticks to what he knows (and what isn't working this season).

But ... Donny hasn't played well in cm. Mctom had been far better over the 39 appearances Donny has made since last summer.

I understand people say Fred has been terrible this season, but donny has been terrible and it must be that ole just prefers Fred brand of terrible, eg covers more ground or has more defensive discipline or similar. Would people still moan if we had signed an actually decent cm this summer ?

 

[NZT-One]

I don't think we have seen enough to make a judgement he will/he will not make it here. Paradoxically, he might be exactly the type of player the future United team will be build on.
Current United team is very weird animal, I think the coaching staff have no idea what midfield is supposed to be doing and seem to focus mostly on defensive and offensive formation. For example defensive line is also responsible for retaining possession and getting the ball to front line. Midfielders role is very limited but I am sure it won't always be that way.
Hard to say if van de Beek can play a role in that "future team", but Ole is doing everything he can not to find out which is bizarre.

Totally. If I were him, I'd just put him in for a couple of minutes here and there, let the people see what Ole sees in training all the time - than the urban legend would probably die down fast enough. Or it wouldn't and we end up with another viable midfield option. So win win win.
I see where you are coming from with giving him more chances, we paid 40 million for him, he deserves the chance. The more rational part in me though says get rid as long as people can remember the player he was for Ajax against Real Madrid in the CL. Barca could make good use of him, next to Memphis, not soo expensive, tidy player in possession, kind of a goal thread in the past, would be a great combination. If we wait too long, people will remember only the part time player who might have a few decent runs in midfield where he was alright without standing out in any regard. Just like with Anderson - came to us highly regarded as a new gritty Ronaldinho-style playmaker only to be converted into a subpar CM and losing all his value (other factors went in there as well, sure).

 

[NZT-One]

But ... Donny hasn't played well in cm. Mctom had been far better over the 39 appearances Donny has made since last summer.

I understand people say Fred has been terrible this season, but donny has been terrible and it must be that ole just prefers Fred brand of terrible, eg covers more ground or has more defensive discipline or similar. Would people still moan if we had signed an actually decent cm this summer ?

When was he terrible for instance? I remember him always as alright. Never a really bad performance, sometimes good, often in bad teams surrounded by the 2nd crop. He never stood out, no denying it, but him being terrible is OTT. His last outing was against Young Boys, wasn't it? His performance was more or less on the same level as Freds that day.

There is absolutely no point in bigging a player up only because of potential and theoretical suit-ings (?) but there is also no point in calling him terrible. He hasn't been given much chances, when given chances, he was average to alright.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

The longer he continues to be left out the better he becomes with some of our fans. It's laughable. Anyone would think we are leaving out Zidane or Xavi.

Donny doesn't get in City, Chelsea or Liverpool's team for me. Don't get the obsession over him.

 

[SER19]

Can we just loan the guy from Jan to May. It worked for lingard and puts him in shop window if we still want to sell.

 

[Sviken]

The longer he continues to be left out the better he becomes with some of our fans. It's laughable. Anyone would think we are leaving out Zidane or Xavi.

Donny doesn't get in City, Chelsea or Liverpool's team for me. Don't get the obsession over him.

Oh, so you need Xavi or prime Zidane to replace Fred? Good to know.

 

[Josh 76]

The problem with Donny now is, if he does play a game, he will be judged on that game alone. People won’t factor in he’s hardly played and his match sharpness and fitness will be non existent. He will need a run of a few games before anyone can see what type of player he is, but Ole is not gong to give him that. Think it’s the end of Donnny at this club, under Ole.

 

[Classnordic]

Donny situation is much different to Sancho though. He's competing with Greenwood, who has been possibly our best attacking player this season, and Rashford, who seems to be in good goal scoring form and shape after comeback. It's perfectly understandable Jadon is not getting game time.

Van de Beek is competing against very mediocre and out of form midfielders (McTominay, Fred, Pogba). There's no reason not to play him, and yet Ole sticks to what he knows (and what isn't working this season).

I think VDB must be competing with Fernandes? as they can't both play.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The longer he continues to be left out the better he becomes with some of our fans. It's laughable. Anyone would think we are leaving out Zidane or Xavi.

Donny doesn't get in City, Chelsea or Liverpool's team for me. Don't get the obsession over him.

I think it’s more people have seen him probably more than many here and know what he’s good at and what he could bring to the team if he’s given time to find his form. He’s not even been bad when he’s played. Just people don’t have patience and can’t spot all the actual good things he does because they don’t know what they are looking for.

Fred played an important part in yesterday’s team and I suspect he was still in to sort of cover the unpredictable involvement of Bruno, but if Bruno plays like he did yesterday more often then you could replace Fred with Donny.

Then we’d have someone with great movement ability to interchange find space and find others in space who isn’t afraid to go through the middle like we were yesterday.

As for not getting in those teams who knows. I doubt Bruno would get in those teams so doesn’t really say much.

 

[Sviken]

I think VDB must be competing with Fernandes? as they can't both play.

I mean - that's not true. Fernandes gets subbed from time to time and the usual one who replaces him is Matic. Even yesterday, when the game was decided and Donny could have get some minutes, he gives chances to Lingard and Matic who are out after this season anyway. Let's just call it like it is - bafflng management. It's not some grand strategy on Ole's part, he simply doesn't have a clue.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

Oh, so you need Xavi or prime Zidane to replace Fred? Good to know.

Fred is in the team for his work rate though. Donny couldn't do that role. He's an attacking player.

I'm no fan of Fred by the way. We can definitely upgrade him. Donny isn't the answer for that particular role he's asked to play though.

 

[Sviken]

Fred is in the team for his work rate though. Donny couldn't do that role. He's an attacking player.

I'm no fan of Fred by the way. We can definitely upgrade him. Donny isn't the answer for that particular role he's asked to play though.

Fred is in the team because of Ole's love boner for him. What good has his work-rate done for us? I'd rather have a technical player than a workrate donkey any day of the weak. And given the fact that Donny has performed much better than him in the few chances he's had this season, I think it is at least fair to give him a chance. Nobody is asking anything more than that.

 

[Classnordic]

I mean - that's not true. Fernandes gets subbed from time to time and the usual one who replaces him is Matic. Even yesterday, when the game was decided and Donny could have get some minutes, he gives chances to Lingard and Matic who are out after this season anyway. Let's just call it like it is - bafflng management. It's not some grand strategy on Ole's part, he simply doesn't have a clue.

I was thinking more of starting 11, is very dependent on gamestate is it not?
He could have subbed in DVB instead of Lingard, but maybe DVB is more suited for the Atalanta game coming up on Tuesday. Not that he would need the rest

 

[Vidyoyo]

Fred is in the team for his work rate though. Donny couldn't do that role. He's an attacking player.

I'm no fan of Fred by the way. We can definitely upgrade him. Donny isn't the answer for that particular role he's asked to play though.

That's it in a nutshell and it seems nobody wants to listen. It reminds me of the halo affect in how people's positive perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team, and subsequently their negative impressions of Fred similarly determine what they think of him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Maybe a little theoretical for a footy forum but it's an interesting idea generally.

 

[Sviken]

I was thinking more of starting 11, is very dependent on gamestate is it not?
He could have subbed in DVB instead of Lingard, but maybe DVB is more suited for the Atalanta game coming up on Tuesday. Not that he would need the rest

When was the last time Donny got subbed for anyone? Even Mata has more minutes than him this season.

That's it in a nutshell and it seems nobody wants to listen.

It's not that nobody wants to listen ,it is because the argument itself is nonsensical. DVB played in an intense high pressing system that is Ajax. To say that Fred has more work-rate than him is bonkers. Furthermore, DVB has experience in a pressing system and despite Ole's deficiencies as a coach, has good experience on how to press while Fred has spent almost his entire career playing under a very rigid and negative coaches and the results are there for all to see - he "presses" like a deer stuck in the headlights.

 

[NZT-One]

Fred is in the team because of Ole's love boner for him. What good has his work-rate done for us? I'd rather have a technical player than a workrate donkey any day of the weak. And given the fact that Donny has performed much better than him in the few chances he's had this season, I think it is at least fair to give him a chance. Nobody is asking anything more than that.

Just look at Pogba who you should be a big fan of then. All talent, no commitment. I get what you mean, 1) there must be a certain minimum level of technical proficiency around the squad and 2) workrate alone doesn't outweigh talent.

But the opposite is just as true - all the talent in the world is meaningless if workrate is missing. Pogba isn't so good to get away with having no workrate. And while I agree that Fred isn't in great form for months, the setup (4-2-4) didn't help, just like being next to "just as out of form" McTominay and having next to no support from the attackers. You have to have a certain amount of workrate in the team as a total sum. If one player doesn't carry his weight, others can compensate. After adding Ronaldo and Sancho the balance tipped off completely (it wasn't great before as well). This is what makes Fred so important. His workrate is so above average, that he can compensate for more than one player. And that is, what he has in comparison to DVB.

That being said - and as I said a lot - I totally agree, that DVB should get more minutes in midfield. Just to see what he can do and to rotate the options there. But bigging him up will only lead to disappointment as a lot of you guys are expecting him to shine in a role he never shined in and nobody knows, if he can adapt or not. At Ajax, it is total foetbal, not comparable. It is Dutch league as well and you can watch this "Sheriff" team which beat Real Madrid, I am sure one of their players had a great game then as well.

 

[Terranova]

That's it in a nutshell and it seems nobody wants to listen. It reminds me of the halo affect in how people's positive perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team, and subsequently their negative impressions of Fred similarly determine what they think of him - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Maybe a little theoretical for a footy forum but it's an interesting idea generally.

You have a good point, even though it's almost the opposite. it's like people's negative perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team.

Donny is an attacking minded player, but he's not an attacking player. He is and always was a central midfielder. But for reason people seem to think he's just an attacking midfielder because that was said when he joined. But when you've seen him play before he joined United, you'd know he can play as a central midfielder, in fact he's being playing as a central midfielder for his whole career.

Even when he was the "attacking midfielder" at Ajax or the Dutch NT, he was just a central midfielder, not an attacking midfielder like Bruno is.

 

[Sviken]

Just look at Pogba who you should be a big fan of then. All talent, no commitment. I get what you mean, 1) there must be a certain minimum level of technical proficiency around the squad and 2) workrate alone doesn't outweigh talent.

But the opposite is just as true - all the talent in the world is meaningless if workrate is missing. Pogba isn't so good to get away with having no workrate. And while I agree that Fred isn't in great form for months, the setup (4-2-4) didn't help, just like being next to "just as out of form" McTominay and having next to no support from the attackers. You have to have a certain amount of workrate in the team as a total sum. If one player doesn't carry his weight, others can compensate. After adding Ronaldo and Sancho the balance tipped off completely (it wasn't great before as well). This is what makes Fred so important. His workrate is so above average, that he can compensate for more than one player. And that is, what he has in comparison to DVB.

That being said - and as I said a lot - I totally agree, that DVB should get more minutes in midfield. Just to see what he can do and to rotate the options there.

Pogba is great when under a competent coach that knows how to utilize him. Problem is that at United he's had past it Mourinho and Ole. He was amazing for Conte and the French national team. Anyway, I don't care about Pogba, he carries more baggage than he is worth. I just fail to see how you can say that Fred has more workrate than Donny when Donny was playing as a midfielder in a very intense pressing team that is constantly striving to get the ball. In comparison, you sound like Ole to me. Fred runs, passion desire, whatever. What good does that do for us? Liverpool pulled 5 past us with their eyes closed, before the Tottenham match we hadn't had a clean sheet for 20 straight games. So what good is Fred to us? Running around the field like a headless chicken is about as useful as a footballer with no legs. It is actually, more often than not, a detriment to the team because you do not want your players leaving out spaces for the other team.

Let's just call it like it is - for whatever reason Ole doesn't like Donny. It has nothing to do with his footballing capabilities or whatever. Maybe Ole's perception of what a footballer should be - hard work, passion, desire, going for the 50/50s and what not, but that is an incredibly simplistic view on the game and as a result - we're suffering for it. So long as Ole is here, Donny won't get any games, I understand that. I wish Ole could go, but if by some miracle he survives this season, then just sell Donny. Hell, even in the winter transfer window - just sell him. There's zero point in keeping him.

 

[Borys]

But ... Donny hasn't played well in cm. Mctom had been far better over the 39 appearances Donny has made since last summer.

I understand people say Fred has been terrible this season, but donny has been terrible and it must be that ole just prefers Fred brand of terrible, eg covers more ground or has more defensive discipline or similar. Would people still moan if we had signed an actually decent cm this summer ?

Has he? That would be very unpopular opinion as far as you consider his CM performances (he was played in AM position majority of last season where he was very very ineffective). Actually he had decent to good perfromances whenever he was given a chance in midfield. Hardly set the world alight, but even "decent" is much better than what Fred has served for us this season.

I don't get the the reference in last sentence of your post.

The longer he continues to be left out the better he becomes with some of our fans. It's laughable. Anyone would think we are leaving out Zidane or Xavi.

Donny doesn't get in City, Chelsea or Liverpool's team for me. Don't get the obsession over him.

You're talking BS as nobody on here is saying those things. What is being repeated is van de Beek has been decent whenever we played him in midfield. Which, again, is better than Fred this season and surely at the very least deserves a chance. You seem to be the only one obsessed with spinning the narration so that it looks like people are crying for him to play, while this is one of the more sensible threads on this forum.
I also don't get your logic, should we continue playing McFred until we finally find a player that would fit into World Best XI?

I think VDB must be competing with Fernandes? as they can't both play.

That was the case until Pogba was moved to LCM/LW position last season and we started giving van de Beek minutes in midfield. This is his current position at United (CM), no matter what role he had at Ajax. I think that was the initial idea (to play him as an AM), but that's dead now.

 

[Oranges038]

At this stage I think there's a level of stubbornness on Ole's behalf. He has decided that Donny isn't going work in his team or be good enough and is not even going to give him the chance to prove him wrong.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

I think the Rio Ferdinand interview was the end for Donny, in Ole's mind. As well as he came over in the interview, it was stupid of him to talk about private conversations he's had with Ole and about interest from other clubs, and why he doesn't know why he's not playing.

He was essentially trying to get the public to pressure Ole into playing him. I'm a Donny fan and disappointed it's not worked for him but in hindsight I think that interview was stupid.

Imagine how Fergie would have reacted if a player did a similar interview?

 

[Vidyoyo]

You have a good point, even though it's almost the opposite. it's like people's negative perceptions of Donny have clouded their judgement about what type of role he can and should play in the team.

Donny is an attacking minded player, but he's not an attacking player. He is and always was a central midfielder. But for reason people seem to think he's just an attacking midfielder because that was said when he joined. But when you've seen him play before he joined United, you'd know he can play as a central midfielder, in fact he's being playing as a central midfielder for his whole career.

Even when he was the "attacking midfielder" at Ajax or the Dutch NT, he was just a central midfielder, not an attacking midfielder like Bruno is.

That might be true and I'll certainly take your word for it as I didn't see him at Ajax.

From what I've seen here, he looks like a CM who likes to get the ball forward, kind of like Pogba. I don't think he's a Bruno replacement and definitely wouldn't play him that high up.

 

[PlayerOne]

Does feel like Ole is making a point at this stage by not picking him at all. Zero minutes after he was our best player against West Ham, when other players have been beyond awful is really bizarre.

Shame really, we will never know if Donny would have been a good player for us. Such a waste of money and massive waste of 2 years for him.

 

[Classnordic]

Has he? That would be very unpopular opinion as far as you consider his CM performances (he was played in AM position majority of last season where he was very very ineffective). Actually he had decent to good perfromances whenever he was given a chance in midfield. Hardly set the world alight, but even "decent" is much better than what Fred has served for us this season.

I don't get the the reference in last sentence of your post.



You're talking BS as nobody on here is saying those things. What is being repeated is van de Beek has been decent whenever we played him in midfield. Which, again, is better than Fred this season and surely at the very least deserves a chance. You seem to be the only one obsessed with spinning the narration so that it looks like people are crying for him to play, while this is one of the more sensible threads on this forum.
I also don't get your logic, should we continue playing McFred until we finally find a player that would fit into World Best XI?


That was the case until Pogba was moved to LCM/LW position last season and we started giving van de Beek minutes in midfield. This is his current position at United (CM), no matter what role he had at Ajax. I think that was the initial idea (to play him as an AM), but that's dead now.

Well if that is the case which it very well might be, I can understand why he can't get minutes.

 

[sugar_kane]

I think the Rio Ferdinand interview was the end for Donny, in Ole's mind. As well as he came over in the interview, it was stupid of him to talk about private conversations he's had with Ole and about interest from other clubs, and why he doesn't know why he's not playing.

He was essentially trying to get the public to pressure Ole into playing him. I'm a Donny fan and disappointed it's not worked for him but in hindsight I think that interview was stupid.

Imagine how Fergie would have reacted if a player did a similar interview?

It’s not a bad theory and that was dumb from Donny, but Pogba has done worse on a few occasions and Ole has looked past it.

Can’t see Donny getting a sniff of game time personally while Ole’s job is on the line, maybe after the international break if we get two good results against Atalanta and City.

 

[sugar_kane]

Does feel like Ole is making a point at this stage by not picking him at all. Zero minutes after he was our best player against West Ham, when other players have been beyond awful is really bizarre.

Shame really, we will never know if Donny would have been a good player for us. Such a waste of money and massive waste of 2 years for him.

Donny’s performance against West Ham is almost as legendary round these parts as when LVG had us playing nice footy for about two weeks.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

It’s not a bad theory and that was dumb from Donny, but Pogba has done worse on a few occasions and Ole has looked past it.

Can’t see Donny getting a sniff of game time personally while Ole’s job is on the line, maybe after the international break if we get two good results against Atalanta and City.

Yeah Pogba has been able to do whatever he wants, very strange.

Donny muat be quite rusty now anyway, throwing him into a crunch game now would likely be bad for him and United. Just got to let him go in January, hopefully on loan to a PL club so we can see what he can do in the PL

 

[NZT-One]

Pogba is great when under a competent coach that knows how to utilize him. Problem is that at United he's had past it Mourinho and Ole. He was amazing for Conte and the French national team. Anyway, I don't care about Pogba, he carries more baggage than he is worth. I just fail to see how you can say that Fred has more workrate than Donny when Donny was playing as a midfielder in a very intense pressing team that is constantly striving to get the ball. In comparison, you sound like Ole to me. Fred runs, passion desire, whatever. What good does that do for us? Liverpool pulled 5 past us with their eyes closed, before the Tottenham match we hadn't had a clean sheet for 20 straight games. So what good is Fred to us? Running around the field like a headless chicken is about as useful as a footballer with no legs. It is actually, more often than not, a detriment to the team because you do not want your players leaving out spaces for the other team.

Let's just call it like it is - for whatever reason Ole doesn't like Donny. It has nothing to do with his footballing capabilities or whatever. Maybe Ole's perception of what a footballer should be - hard work, passion, desire, going for the 50/50s and what not, but that is an incredibly simplistic view on the game and as a result - we're suffering for it. So long as Ole is here, Donny won't get any games, I understand that. I wish Ole could go, but if by some miracle he survives this season, then just sell Donny. Hell, even in the winter transfer window - just sell him. There's zero point in keeping him.

It is funny that you see simplistic views on others but not on yourself. You think, the current rut is solely down to Fred and the managers insistence on playing him? That is the mother of simplistic I'd say.
Donnies time at Ajax certainly doesn't mean he is way above average in terms of workrate. I didn't state, DVB would be shit in that regard but he isn't on Freds Level there. And even if you don't consider workrate to be a factor, we were just as shit without him in midfield. He isn't a great player but Fred isn't the problem of that team. And I don't need to talk about passion or desire to back my claims, I can tell that Fred makes himself available for passes very well, he is moving up and down, being a passing option for attack and defense while constantly being on the move, he is covering for others and he is making attacking runs. Just look at his fbref scouting profile and you will see where he ranks in comparison to all other midfielders. It isn't worldclass but it is more than fine.

That is where I will leave that discussion though... it seems pointless as we are now arguing about how shit Fred is because that is seemingly the angle to make it inevitable to use Donny more. The debates are so saturated, always either great or shit. DVB should play more often, we agree on the outcome. He should play more because he hasn't been an active liability, he is available, fit and has a good technical level, we need rotation to keep players fresh and the players he should rotate with aren't in the greatest form themselves. In my eyes that is the only rationale needed. And knowing that fecking Donny did only play so few minutes it tells you a lot about the fanbase that his "performance" thread is as active as it is.

 

[Sviken]

It is funny that you see simplistic views on others but not on yourself. You think, the current rut is solely down to Fred and the managers insistence on playing him? That is the mother of simplistic I'd say.
Donnies time at Ajax certainly doesn't mean he is way above average in terms of workrate. I didn't state, DVB would be shit in that regard but he isn't on Freds Level there. And even if you don't consider workrate to be a factor, we were just as shit without him in midfield. He isn't a great player but Fred isn't the problem of that team. And I don't need to talk about passion or desire to back my claims, I can tell that Fred makes himself available for passes very well, he is moving up and down, being a passing option for attack and defense while constantly being on the move, he is covering for others and he is making attacking runs. Just look at his fbref scouting profile and you will see where he ranks in comparison to all other midfielders. It isn't worldclass but it is more than fine.

You're taking words out of my mouth that I never said. In fact, I think Fred can be a decent player with a proper coach that knows how to utilize him. Never a United quality, but still good enough to do the job when called for. Problem is that at the moment he is appalling and we have a player, exactly what we need, sitting on the bench and not even getting 5 minutes per game. This is problematic for a number of reasons. Now you talk about Donny not being on the level of Fred in terms of workrate, but you don't know that. You've barely watched Donny. He did an amazing job against West Ham, taking the ball and pressing. How often has Fred ever managed to dispossess someone off the ball? It's one thing to run and have energy, it's another to actually use it. For example, Cavani runs and has energy and often times works for him because he is quite capable of taking the ball. Fred simply runs for the sake of running. You argue that Fred is available for passes, and albeit he doesn't hide like McT from he ball, the problem is that often times - when he gets the ball, he holds it for too long and more than often gets dispossessed. It's a good thing to ask for the ball, but it's also a bad thing when you have zero idea what to do with it and you're easily targeted by other teams.

That is where I will leave that discussion though... it seems pointless as we are now arguing about how shit Fred is because that is seemingly the angle to make it inevitable to use Donny more. The debates are so saturated, always either great or shit. DVB should play more often, we agree on the outcome. He should play more because he hasn't been an active liability, he is available, fit and has a good technical level, we need rotation to keep players fresh and the players he should rotate with aren't in the greatest form themselves. In my eyes that is the only rationale needed. And knowing that fecking Donny did only play so few minutes it tells you a lot about the fanbase that his "performance" thread is as active as it is.

The only thing the activity in Donny's thread shows we brought a Ballon D'or shortlisted player for 40 million who hasn't seen the light of day despite our midfield performances being constantly dreadful which leaves fans worried and baffled at what's going on. You wouldn't see nearly the amount of same activity if Donny actually played, but failed and Fred took his chance. But none of that has happened