But he needs an extra touch which slows down the play.
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You can’t keep players on the off chance that things go to shit with the current manager. To do that your recruitment has to be completely independent from the coaching, and our structure just doesn’t allow that. Even if you wanna do that then you should be loaning him out at the very least.
We’re so short of quality options in midfield it would’ve been mad to loan him without bringing one or two others in. I don’t have a problem with that. I just don’t get why he is behind Lingard in the pecking order, FFS. Especially after he looked quite good in preseason. He deserves a run in the team especially now that McTominay is out.
Because they play different positions
Donny imho would be better served in a deep position, getting the ball off the cb and progressing it. He’s very press resistant and can tackle as well as carrick did.
perhaps with him beefing up this summer that’s what we might see
Because otherwise it’s last chance saloon
Donny has played all of 90 mins in his career in the deep position. He played either as AM or the creative CM in a 3-man midfield all the rest of the time.
I can't tell you with great certainty that he wouldn't make it in that position, but there's very little evidence to go on and the suggestion that he'd be better suited there seems a bit far-fetched to say the least.
Carrick had excellent long range distribution and very good reading of the game from a defensive perspective. We haven't seen anything of the like from VdB. Not just at United, but his whole footballing career.
You're stat is wrong. He played in a 2 man pivot more than once with Ziyech as the no 10.
I don’t know where you get that info but I’ve seen him play deep on a few more than 90 minutes for Ajax!
the Donny that we have seen so far at United is nowhere near the player we’ve seen at Ajax. He’s capable of so much more
Yes I’ve seen him and Frenkie play a very good two
I don't know really. VDB is a better CM than Lingard but I also think he is a better CAM than him too.
Lingards best ability as a CAM is to score goals imo, its something I thought was in VDB'S locker from his time at Ajax.
It's something that Ole doesn't see in him which is disappointing/frustrating.
When we need goals towards the end of the game I have seen him completely forget that VDB is an intelligent runner in to complex spaces (weirdly something maybe even Ole was good at himself) but still doesn't even use him as a sub to get a goal.
Within the last couple games he has even bought on Lingard due to us needing to score a goal but not VDB.
Maybe Ole thinks that Lingard is a slight better player than VDB- However even if this is true the 'betterness' is not that big enough to completely stop playing a decent young player that could potentially get better for us (and hasn't had a chance) vs continuing to use someone who's time at the club has arguably been up for sometime.
Think he'd do well in a 4-3-3 formation but reality is Bruno is number 10 and almost never misses a game and Pogba stayed so there's no room for Donny, unless he gets his chance in a pivot besides one of McTominay/Fred, but it seems that will hardly happen.
It'll be a shame if he just stays on the bench this season as well and leaves after 2 years of doing nothing in his career.
It'll be a shame if he just stays on the bench this season as well and leaves after 2 years of doing nothing in his career.
My point is we are crying put for someone good on the ball, press resistant, who can collect the ball deep and progress it, in a double pivot. VdB is more capable of doing that. Now we don’t need to protect cb deficiencies as much, and Ole has spoken about being more expansive I do t know why he doesn’t try him alongside Fred or McT.
I think people are reading too much into VDB not coming on these 3 games. We now know he wanted out, so it could be as simple as Ole not playing him because of that.
Last season for example, when we were leading Southampton 4-0 he played the second half and he came on for 20mins against Leeds while leading 6-1. So something must have changed for Ole not to bring him on against Leeds this season.
Last season for example, when we were leading Southampton 4-0 he played the second half and he came on for 20mins against Leeds while leading 6-1. So something must have changed for Ole not to bring him on against Leeds this season.
I sincerely hope that VDB has a chance to start a few games. There is a quality inside him, just needs a few easy games to built his confidence. His close control is definitely better than Fred and McT, surely that count for something.
He is not a top football journalists, but he is a top Football Transfers journalist.
He doesn't publish football related articles regularly, or interview players, managers, ex-players/managers, or club owners/DoFs, etc.. his area of expertise is transfers only.
Yes you’re right, he is a top football transfers journalist and it takes absolutely nothing away from the point that I was making.
The times I've watched Ajax, it was FDJ or Martinez playing the deeper role and shielding the defence, with VDB being more box-to-box. Much like when Pogba and Fred are in the pivot, it's Fred playing the deeper role.
That player needs to also be good at reading the game and shielding the defence. Otherwise might as well play Fred and Pogba there.
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Possible, but he did start James and sold him not long after.
Paul Ince has been a football manager at several different clubs, what makes Rio's opinion more credible then his? Rio has never coached anywhere as far as i'm aware and certainly hasn't been a football manager. Rio has had some pretty awful takes down the years, like this one
https://www.goal.com/en-us/news/85/...and-urges-premier-league-elite-to-sign-ashley He was also delusional enough to think that he could become a pro boxer after retiring from football and win a title belt, so he's clearly not working with a full deck of cards.I can mention other names that have been on United Stand recently such as Ben Foster and Christian Falk, there are plenty of ''meaningful'' people that have been on the channel.
I agree, there is no reason why Ole won't start him more this season.
Varane only made his debut last week, I expect (and hope) VDB will be given more chances once the defence settles in and Ole to make some tactical adjustments to implement a more expansive style of football.
I really hope he get a fair and proper run in the team. His lack of game time is one of the main reasons i dislike Ole as our manager.
We have a very good player whos rotting on the bench.
We have a very good player whos rotting on the bench.
Yes, but apparently Leeds only came in for James after Ronnie signed and Ole told James he wouldn't be playing much.
In the previous season, Ole brought on VDB many times when we were chasing a goal with 15-20 mins remaining and his position was normally high up the field. However, the team normally didn’t spot his movement into the box or chose the alternatives. So, it’s not about Ole forgot about him, but he has some issues to adapt to our play. Ole needs to find a right system especially when McT is injured.
Wasn’t Ronnie already announced before the Wolves game though? The club said he was coming on Friday and James started against Wolves on Sunday.
Anyway I see your point. These are small meaningless details. Maybe Leeds officially went for James after the Wolves game. We don’t know. I just think that Ole isn’t starting VDB because he doesn’t rate him. But I actually hope you’re right on this (that VDB wasn’t playing only because he wanted to leave).
I thought VdB lacks all of it. At least last season. What he does best is pass the ball quickly which is more useful around the box. Otherwise, he would be doing it backwards which people saw a few times last season and lost their mind.
And, VdB was being accused of hiding in a couple of rare starts he got last season. None of those tells us that he would be good enough in deeper area. Well, like I said, until last season.
And, I know he had a decent game in the very last game of the season which is usually not a good game to judge for obvious reasons.
Pass the ball quickly, doesn’t give the ball away very often, makes good runs
I hope last season was just a settling in thing otherwise he’s gone
Passing the ball quickly and making good runs in the final 3rd are great assets for attacking midfielders.
But, not sure if they are that good in deeper areas as he does not seem to have necessary passing range. He will just turn around and pass the ball to the closet players - CBs. Which will annoy the heck out of everyone. I still think he was brought in to deputize Bruno only.
What’s the point in spending 40m on a deputy?
anyway I agree somewhat with what you say, I just think that he could be an asset deeper
The bolded reminds me of Koeman not letting his defenders go and attack, when he was.... Well, we all know
I was referring to not putting him on against Leeds when the game was dead, which was strange as Ole had done so on similar occasions last season.
I think he'll play plenty with the cups starting soon, both in Bruno's position and next to Fred/Matic where McTominay/Pogba usually play. We're just very thin in midfield, so keeping him makes a lot of sense even if Ole doesn't rate him that much.
He'll just have to put in performances like those against Everton, or Wolves last season instead of strolling about devoid of confidence like he started doing last season, to get more meaningful minutes.
I'm not writing him off 3 games in. James wasn't even make the bench a year ago.
The difficulty is this:
We have substantially better players at Donny’s best position in Bruno and Pogba. Not even Donny’s mum would deny that.
We have mediocre central midfielders in Fred and McTominay, and Matic is aging quickly, but it’s fair to say Donny has never proven himself as a CDM. But when would Ole ever feel comfortable giving Donny a chance to prove himself in a deeper role?
Other than a catastrophic injury crisis, mop up duty in the 85th minute or a draw Burton Albion it’s hard to see Donny get quality minutes under Ole.
We have substantially better players at Donny’s best position in Bruno and Pogba. Not even Donny’s mum would deny that.
We have mediocre central midfielders in Fred and McTominay, and Matic is aging quickly, but it’s fair to say Donny has never proven himself as a CDM. But when would Ole ever feel comfortable giving Donny a chance to prove himself in a deeper role?
Other than a catastrophic injury crisis, mop up duty in the 85th minute or a draw Burton Albion it’s hard to see Donny get quality minutes under Ole.
Sorry pal but Paul Ince is a joke. There is even a thread on here dedicated to how much of a clown he is. Not sure why you're bringing Rio into this... Pretty sure I never held him up as an example of anything.Paul Ince has been a football manager at several different clubs, what makes Rio's opinion more credible then his? Rio has never coached anywhere as far as i'm aware and certainly hasn't been a football manager. Rio has had some pretty awful takes down the years, like this one
I can mention other names that have been on United Stand recently such as Ben Foster and Christian Falk, there are plenty of ''meaningful'' people that have been on the channel.
This. Donny was such a strange buy. The closest I have seen to a good explaination is that we thought Pogba was gone, wanted Grealish to replace him...and saw Donny as a cheaper alternative to Grealish...notwithstanding the fact that Grealish should never had been considered a Pogba replacement to begin with.
If you follow that line of thought, Pogba’s positioning is still a conundrum...no doubt at his best (most effective and least liable) left of the front three...so yes...if he wanted out and we needed to replace a left sided attacker look at Grealish...but we still had Martial, Rashford, James and Lingard all capable of playing wide left...so when the meetings were held about how to replace Pogba, why the feck were we looking at the likes of Grealish, which in my opinion led to the purchase of VDB...instead of looking at proper CM’s? After all...that was the role Pogba was bought to play!
Good chance I’m completely wrong to be fair but Jesus is it frustrating to see us buy a player for good money and still have no real fuking idea whether or not it was money well spent over a year later!!!!
I disagree with that being the logic of the club in purchasing Donny. But who knows. Either way I was extremely excited with the purchase initially as we were short on quality options in midfield which is still the case. And obviously Pogba is better utilized from the left so it made perfect sense to me at the time. Not that I didn’t want Grealish as well.
But I really expected DvB to be important for us. Never in a million years would I have expected it to turn out this way. It is baffling that we can’t find a place for a guy who has played and excelled in every midfield role for a brilliant Ajax side.
And if we continue to limit Pogba’s influence playing him deeper and / or run the corpse of Nemanja Matic out instead it raises serious questions about OGS and the coaches and will almost certainly cost us vital points. Our performances in the center of the park have been dire the past two matches with combinations which have proven ineffective time and again.
I genuinely cannot wrap my head around this guy not getting a chance to prove his worth.
The person he was initially replying to said that Rio was a more meaningful guest and I think he was making the point that Sheringham, Romano et al. were also “meaningful” guests.
The person I was responding to pointed to Rio as an example of Stretford Paddock having more meaningful guests on the channel, that's why Rio is a part of the conversation. You responded to my post by saying the names I mentioned were not the best bet for making my point, my point being that if Rio is the standard then United Stand also have meaningful guests. They don't need to be the ''best bet'' to make my point, they only need to be sufficient to make my point. If Rio qualifies as a meaningful guest why don't Ince and Sheringham? Even if you don't like those two for some reason there are others like Ben Foster.
This ^
Ah ok, apologies, I was being dim!
Ta, my mistake!
Tbh I've never understood the obsession to play VDB from some here. Based on what we've seen of him so far he's basically an average attacking midfielder and there's also basically nothing to suggest he'd be a good CDM, especially in the PL.
People blame Ole for not playing him but if Ole does and we lose or draw I bet it'd be that same people slagging Ole for playing him. It's a nutshell. Ole's job is to bring results by getting the best out of all his players not to sacrifice results to give chances to VDB. He had a few chances last season and tbf he didn't make use of those at all. If you're a new player you must shine in those rare chance you got otherwise you'd have fewer and fewer. Others will take your place. Everyone want to play. Atm as a CM imo VDB is even worse than Matic. At least Matic still has the strength, know where to position himself and may pass the ball forward. Pogba, despite not even a proper midfielder is still miles better than VDB.
Imo VDB will get his chances once the CL start and he'd do pretty fine in the group matches. But the PL is another story. There's still hope but quite small imo. If he can't make it here let's accept we simply made a mistake signing him and move on I think.
People blame Ole for not playing him but if Ole does and we lose or draw I bet it'd be that same people slagging Ole for playing him. It's a nutshell. Ole's job is to bring results by getting the best out of all his players not to sacrifice results to give chances to VDB. He had a few chances last season and tbf he didn't make use of those at all. If you're a new player you must shine in those rare chance you got otherwise you'd have fewer and fewer. Others will take your place. Everyone want to play. Atm as a CM imo VDB is even worse than Matic. At least Matic still has the strength, know where to position himself and may pass the ball forward. Pogba, despite not even a proper midfielder is still miles better than VDB.
Imo VDB will get his chances once the CL start and he'd do pretty fine in the group matches. But the PL is another story. There's still hope but quite small imo. If he can't make it here let's accept we simply made a mistake signing him and move on I think.
You can’t make that call unless he gets a consistent run of games in the team. Fred was shit in his first season but when he got games he is actually decent just not as a DM.
You can’t say he hasn’t shown what he can when he got his chance. One start in like 2 months isn’t getting a chance. There is no rhythm to your play and you haven’t exactly played a game with the players around you. Training with them isn’t the same as playing a full 90 with them.
Full quotes in the above thread.
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